Paperblade Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) This is so terrible I can't even properly be mad It's like it was written by some lonely fuck who has no idea how people actually interact with each other It's just sad and kind of entertaining Edited July 2, 2015 by Paperblade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Sage Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 This is so terrible I can't even properly be mad It's like it was written by some lonely fuck who has no idea how people actually interact with each other I'm pretty sure that's what did happen, the only support that comes close to this level of awkwardness in both content and in how people talk is Foleo x Eponine. I never thought I'd see the day where they'd include a character pretty much using date rape drugs in a Fire Emblem game but here we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frelia Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) I think Soleil is a fine character. The fact that she does whatever she wants without concern of what others think of her is admirable to me. But, that's not completely true as she's embarrassed about her bad dancing. So, that makes her even more likeable because she strikes a balance. What I don't like is how the Kamuis treat her, and it bothers me especially because as the avatar, I should at least be able to vaguely portray my thoughts and feelings upon a character made to represent me and my actions. For them to just completely disrespect her bothers me personally. Now, I know that's difficult to achieve when you give your avatar a voice and no speaking choices, but most of the time, at least for me, it has worked in my favor in Awakening because Robin (male, specifically) had enough of a neutral disposition that I was able to be accepting of the things he said. I dunno. Call me weird on that last paragraph. Exactly. Soleil seems like a fine character, but the way she is treated by the Kamuis especially m!Kamui really bothers me especially when it comes to how they handle how she likes girls especially cute girls. Really disturbing. I agree with that paragraph, and this is why self-inserts are a bad idea, especially when they have the ability to support EVERY single character in the game. On one end the self-insert character is bound to act in some way that goes against what the player would actually do themselves, and on the other end the character becomes bland as hell with no personality in an attempt to avoid situations of the former type. And this isn't even going into the massive amounts of player worshipping. Exactly this too. I like self inserts, but yeah those are the flaws that I have seen quite a lot with these type of characters. And when it comes to games like Fire Emblem those flaws become be especially noticeable and often times annoying. I don't expect self insert characters to be perfectly done, but depending on how they are done it can be a bit difficult to connect to them and like them. Edited July 2, 2015 by Eevonee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirokan Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Meh, I'm personally fine with most of the things in Fates, it's just a localization could make her gimmick (should they have to keep it the same) better written and her dialogue could be much better. I'm all for a localization making the writing better, just not censorship. Great! I think they can make the writing better than us pure translators can for sure, I just don't want them to change the meaning, even if it does make some characterization in the plot better, they shouldn't change the plot, you know? Even if it could be improved, as their job is just to make it presentable to a local audience. If they change the meaning significantly, it sort of goes against their work. xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Kamina Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) Great! I think they can make the writing better than us pure translators can for sure, I just don't want them to change the meaning, even if it does make some characterization in the plot better, they shouldn't change the plot, you know? Even if it could be improved, as their job is just to make it presentable to a local audience. If they change the meaning significantly, it sort of goes against their work. xD As long as the plot holds the same meaning (I can accept complete character changes for the better, easily though), I'm fine with the Localization changing things for the better. For example, I think that the change in the reason for the Black Knight losing to Ike in PoR that they did in the North American version of RD worked better, and made more sense than the Black Knight's warp powder malfunctioning. But that's just me, and I understand why some people would be opposed to it. Edited July 2, 2015 by Monado Boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Soldier Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Is there any link to the original Japanese version of the Avatar-Soleil supports? I really would like to look at the original just to check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirokan Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 As long as the plot holds the same meaning (I can accept complete character changes for the better, easily though), I'm fine with the Localization changing things for the better. For example, I think that the change in the reason for the Black Knight losing to Ike in PoR that they did in the North American version of RD worked better, and made more sense than the Black Knight's warp powder malfunctioning. But that's just me, and I understand why some people would be opposed to it. Ah, those I did not play in Japanese, can you explain what they changed and to what? : ) Maybe in a PM so we don't derail this convo. Is there any link to the original Japanese version of the Avatar-Soleil supports? I really would like to look at the original just to check it out. I can PM you the text from the text dump, if you want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Soldier Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I can PM you the text from the text dump, if you want? That's fine, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArticRalts Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Are you guys reading the same support I am the support I read started with Ingo Jr. Explaining she wanted to be able to be cool around cute chicks and that she didn't think Kamui could help so He uses some sort of magic so he and all the other dudes will look like a girl in order to help her with her problem thinking if she could act normal around lady him she might have more luck around the real deal. In A she reveals how much like her father she is in regards to her attitude and says that she has fun around the man Kamui too in addition to asking if they could do the rule 63 training again. S is the whole proposal bit it always is and she says that seeing him go to such lengths to help her out really made her fall in love with him regardless of gender. I think if you read it again without thinking about how horrible it is going into it you might see the whole thing in a different light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPGatWill Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 It's... a strange support. It might be due to the translation, but it does come off really poorly. Especially since they seem relatively firm in having her getting weak and flustered enough to faint around cute girls and NOT cute guys. To be honest, she probably should've been the lesbian option. or an additional one. At least, that's the impression I get from this. Maybe after I sleep on it I'll feel less... conflicted about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Soldier Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) Are you guys reading the same support I am the support I read started with Ingo Jr. Explaining she wanted to be able to be cool around cute chicks and that she didn't think Kamui could help so He uses some sort of magic so he and all the other dudes will look like a girl in order to help her with her problem thinking if she could act normal around lady him she might have more luck around the real deal. In A she reveals how much like her father she is in regards to her attitude and says that she has fun around the man Kamui too in addition to asking if they could do the rule 63 training again. S is the whole proposal bit it always is and she says that seeing him go to such lengths to help her out really made her fall in love with him regardless of gender. I think if you read it again without thinking about how horrible it is going into it you might see the whole thing in a different light. The fact that he is helping her with her problem isn't the issue. The issue is that the 'some sort of magic' took the form of a powder that he put into her drink without her knowing or noticing or anything. Again, though, this is something that should take the localizers two seconds to pave over with some semblance of consent language in there, so as long as they are aware of the issue and fix it, it should be okay. Not that the fact that it was there to begin with is any good. Edited July 2, 2015 by Sky Soldier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLostWhisperer Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Kamui slipped a strong hallucinogenic drug into her drink without her consent, that on its own is very bad. The fact that he knows how to and did slip a drug into someone's drink is an immediate red flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilchoc Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) Am I the only one who is not more shocked by that than the fact that you can actually marry your 8yo little sisters (even if they are not actually your real sisters and blablabla)? I mean it's bad written,weird and a little bit disgusting but for me there are more unacceptable things than this in the game... Edited July 2, 2015 by Lilchoc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgetruman Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Is there perhaps any humor that is being lost in translation? This seems like it was meant to be tongue in cheek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartdumbkid Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) Is there perhaps any humor that is being lost in translation? This seems like it was meant to be tongue in cheek. I honestly doubt it. It just looks straight up bad, perhaps not for the reason most posters here believe. Edited July 2, 2015 by Smartdumbkid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirokan Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Are you guys reading the same support I am the support I read started with Ingo Jr. Explaining she wanted to be able to be cool around cute chicks and that she didn't think Kamui could help so He uses some sort of magic so he and all the other dudes will look like a girl in order to help her with her problem thinking if she could act normal around lady him she might have more luck around the real deal. In A she reveals how much like her father she is in regards to her attitude and says that she has fun around the man Kamui too in addition to asking if they could do the rule 63 training again. S is the whole proposal bit it always is and she says that seeing him go to such lengths to help her out really made her fall in love with him regardless of gender. I think if you read it again without thinking about how horrible it is going into it you might see the whole thing in a different light. Indeed, while the wording was vaguely translated (can be taken as curing lesbianism rather than curing the fainting), the other aspects of it is probably what's getting people upset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen-aku Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) Am I the only one who is not more shocked by that than the fact that you can actually marry your 8yo little sisters (even if they are not actually your real sisters and blablabla)? I mean it's bad written,weird and a little bit disgusting but for me there are more unacceptable things than this in the game... Ignoring there's no way ether sister character are 8. This takes the cake as this is not only badly written, it sh confusing and nonsensical, which applies to Soleil in general. They wanted Female inigo but refused to do ether of the logical options to make that work Make her gay or make her obsession cute boys. so what were left with is a character no one could possibly be happy with, and it make her whole "i like girls" shtick come off like a shes just pretending. not to mention it make male kamui a creepier and female kamui a homphobe. you might not like that the siblings are romancable but there at least more or less well written and keeps the characters consistent. When Both 4chan and tumblr stand up and say this garbage, you know some one screwed the pooch. Edited July 2, 2015 by zen-aku Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClevelandSteve Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Yeah, when I first saw Soleil's design, I wanted to romance her. When I heard about the lesbian undertones of her character (including having an ability called "Girl Lover") but saw she could romance male characters, I thought maybe she was actually bi or something (still didn't explain why she can't romance Femui or any other female character). However, after reading those supports, there's no way in hell I'm going to get with her. I'm going to leave her single in every playthrough, and just let her get A supports with a bunch of girls. This is some serious bullshit. I highly doubt the localization team will go as far as to give her S supports with female characters (even if it's just Femui), but hopefully they at least change this atrocity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitoRequiem Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 This is hilarious to read my lord lmao, I wanna see Foleo and Soleiil's support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twylis Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) I'm going to leave her single in every playthrough, and just let her get A supports with a bunch of girls. Her support with Foleo seems relatively benign, at least. http://pastebin.com/mPyG72CG Some of Soleil's behaviour is questionable, but it's in-character nonetheless. And it (like many other children supports) doesn't have an absolutely terrible S-rank, due to the lack of a spontaneous shoehorned marriage. what a convenient ninja Edited July 2, 2015 by Twylis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLostWhisperer Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Her support with Foleo seems relatively benign, at least. http://pastebin.com/mPyG72CG Some of Soleil's behaviour is questionable, but it's in-character nonetheless. And it (like many other children supports) doesn't have an absolutely terrible S-rank, due to the lack of a spontaneous shoehorned marriage. what a convenient ninja This is actually my favorite child S-ranks. But that might be due to them being my two favorite second generation characters. When we calls her cute and she gets embarrassed is incredibly adorable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somnium Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) I think it's okay to ask the localization to change this, since it will be received badly in the West. But people need to think a little more about where these things are coming from, and have more cultural awareness. Not everything is made with a WESTERN mindset, especially with something coming from Japan. Japan has it's own set of tropes and beliefs, and IS didn't write this support out of malice towards lesbians. The "girl acts lesbian but ends up falling for a man" trope is common in Japan. I think IS was just making this her character archetype. Yes, yes I know people are going to be mad anyways, and find reasons to be mad. But people need to cut IS some slack. They didn't write anything explicitly insulting, just unaware of implications. And probably because these type of "implications" are not even taught or thought about in Japan the way they are on Tumblr or wherever. Edited July 2, 2015 by Somnium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartdumbkid Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 They honestly should've just made her gay. She basically is anyway, but I don't think IS really think fondly of homosexuals, going off of their representation of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirokan Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I think it's okay to ask the localization to change this, since it will be received badly in the West. But people need to think a little more about where these things are coming from, and have more cultural awareness. Not everything is made with a WESTERN mindset, especially with something coming from Japan. Japan has it's own set of tropes and beliefs, and IS didn't write this support out of malice towards lesbians. The "girl acts lesbian but ends up falling for a man" trope is common in Japan. I think IS was just making this her character archetype. Yes, yes I know people are going to be mad anyways, and find reasons to be mad. But people need to cut IS some slack. They didn't write anything explicitly insulting, just unaware of implications. And probably because these type of "implications" are not even taught or thought about in Japan the way they are on Tumblr or wherever. Indeed, so it is the job of the localizers to fix this as they are culturally aware of the West. I hope. They honestly should've just made her gay. She basically is anyway, but I don't think IS really think fondly of homosexuals, going off of their representation of them. I found it strange when I heard FeMui couldn't marry her. xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somnium Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Also let me add, the actual supports are about Kamui giving her powder so he could HELP HER NOT FAINT AROUND WOMEN... NOT TO MAKE HER LOVE HIM OR TURN HER STRAIGHT... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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