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To censor or not to sensor. (Localization for North America)


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Henry got warped by the localization [Particularly his support with Olivia], but for the most part, he was left alone.

You call that warped? Are you freaking serious? Do you even know what kind of big fat fucking cliche Henry was in the Japanese version of the game? If anything, Henry was vastly improved in localization. He was an even bigger anime cliche prior to jumping the pond.

See they're busy turning Pier-Err Cotton Candy head into the next Henry.

They're molesting poor Tsukuyomi's supports,

and leaving Soleil exactly the way she is.

:facepalm: You know, it would be nice if you added something that wasnt BS to the community, mate.

Pieri isnt going to be "the next Henry". Pieri's original personality is extremely close to an existing character in Western pop culture. (Harley Quinn of Batman fame) I feel like shes one of the few that wont get too much changes in localization for that reason.

From what i can see, theres not much wrong with Tsukuyomi's supports or characterization. Hes basically Ricken 2.0.

Soleil is going to undergo a huge characterization overhaul if localization has any fucking common sense. Shes a humor cliche that hasnt been funny for 15 years now in the West. Theres no way they will leave that alone.

I dont care if you are being hyperbolic, you sound thick as a brick shit house.

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may i ask if there are any other changes? cause i heard something about gregor as well and maybe a different game too

From what i could gather, Gregor in the japanese version of fe13 was more of your basic grizzled wise mercenary. He didnt have the accent tic before. The localization gave him the Heavy accent and quirk to make him seem appealing. (given how hes a husbando option) Cuz otherwise, how would the average western player would want to romance him if hes just Average Wise Mercenary Who Looks About 50? Ya know? I remember people getting a bit irate about how one of his crit cut-ins had "Gregor SMASH!" making him seem like some dumb Hulk type character. Despite giving Gregor a quirk, it was seen as a positive one once the game came out and he didnt quite lose the Mercenary Well Traveled angle.

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I hope the game is translated and left uncensored. The west is way too concerned about whether or not "sex" is in their media.

I see no one mentioning cencoring the countless deaths in the game, or the violence - everyone just seems to care about whether or not some chick's thighs are exposed (because seeing people half naked would ruin us all!).

In the end, the game is a piece of entertainment. It shouldn't be bound by whatever the dull standards of society are right now. Hell, it doesn't even need to be bound by the realities of decency. It could be balls-to-the-wall offensive in some areas and I still think it should remain as is.

However, people can't seem to keep their own discomforts in-check. They'll complain wildly, demand everyone think as they do, and then insist the game be censored to reflect what they feel is the "most comfortable" and "best" version of the game, letting no one else decide for themselves or even experience different thoughts. It's pretty Orwellian, to be frank.

I know, I'm getting caught up in the extreme - I'm sure the game will be tweaked slightly and then given a T rating. Because, remember kids, this was given a T rating:

(WARNING: NAKED WOMAN IN BOTH VIDEOS - I DON'T WANT TO RUIN YOU)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QidXn7C5nHc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEF7_CoRWDI

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I can say Henry's changes were definitely for the better, as he's literally one of my favorite characters in Awakening. And while I never really used Gregor outside of the chapter he's recruited in, I still love his personality and consider him one of those characters you just love even though he's not that relevant.

That said, localization isn't always a bad thing. I haven't spoiled myself too much on the characters in Fates outside of the basic information we knew before release, but just because they may localize a character and change them from their Japanese self, it doesn't mean they've been "censored" or were considered "inappropriate" by the translating staff. They may be doing a character a bit of a favor~

Basically, my thoughts on this are whether or not the changes, if there are any, are for the better or don't make much of a difference. If so, then I'm fine with it. Just because they change some wording around doesn't mean they're being censored, regarding people wanting their "lewd" dialogue. And of the Zero X M!Corrin/Not!Tharja X F!Corrin, I wouldn't be concerned. After all, the localization apparently notably made the dialogue between Severa and Kjelle in one of the DLC Scrambles more gay than the original Japanese, from what I've heard.

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Stahl x Tharja got changed for the worst. For what I remember, in the original version of the S Support she tells Stahl that he is now the most important person in her life (even above Robin), but for some odd reason that got removed in the localization.

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In the end, the game is a piece of entertainment. It shouldn't be bound by whatever the dull standards of society are right now. Hell, it doesn't even need to be bound by the realities of decency. It could be balls-to-the-wall offensive in some areas and I still think it should remain as is.

On the other hand said game is also a product sold to consumers by a corporation. Judging by the standards of todays industry itll likely go through focus group testing and target specific age ratings that are corresponding with the audience its meant to sell to in each region.

In case of titles like Fire Emblem this usually ends up in changing stuff during localization because of the publishers (mis?)conception that this helps sales. I think thats another major problem here Nintendo and the likes dont treat their games as an art form and are ok to interfere with the developers original work however they see fit. Therefore I get the impression more consideration is given to weather line A or B will harm sales than to make line C or D more understandable. Reflex post is pretty insightful lets just completely rewrite characters to westernize them and dont even try showing treats like shyness or being sensitive in a way that wouldnt be considered a weakness by um westerners.

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On the other hand said game is also a product sold to consumers by a corporation. Judging by the standards of todays industry itll likely go through focus group testing and target specific age ratings that are corresponding with the audience its meant to sell to in each region.

In case of titles like Fire Emblem this usually ends up in changing stuff during localization because of the publishers (mis?)conception that this helps sales. I think thats another major problem here Nintendo and the likes dont treat their games as an art form and are ok to interfere with the developers original work however they see fit. Therefore I get the impression more consideration is given to weather line A or B will harm sales than to make line C or D more understandable. Reflex post is pretty insightful lets just completely rewrite characters to westernize them and dont even try showing treats like shyness or being sensitive in a way that wouldnt be considered a weakness by um westerners.

Oh, I know they'll change it (for a varety of reasons relating to how well they can sell it) but I still disagree with censorship. I feel it's unnecessary and destructive of real creativtiy. I just wanted to pontificate for a bit. :p

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Dumb/paranoid editorial oversight somehow diminishing the dialogue during the localization process is a real enough phenomenon that wanting to guard against it is understandable, but that doesn't preclude the possibility that the original written material was itself constructed with a cynical, pandering mindset. Say, maybe the original Soleil support writing process went like "those shut-in creeps who get off on this and buy our games for the waifu pageantry will love it, and it'll keep them coming back for more next time. Plus maybe it'll get them to spend a little more on (racy) merch. (Gotta get that body pillow money, man)"

Not that we know that. Maybe it was really just supposed to be lighthearted throwaway material, a joke that would largely not get much more than an "oh, you!" from its native audience and wasn't at all supposed to be seen as acceptable behavior or to make light of getting someone to unknowingly ingest a substance or anybody's sexual orientation or whatever; maybe it's just one more thing that genuinely fails to cross cultures well. (So, the sort of thing that "presents a challenge" for localizations.) I couldn't say with much certainty. I do think it's good to keep in mind, though, that editorial oversight, particularly in localization, isn't always born of evil or stiflingly cynical intent, and the original writer can be just as capable of cynicism and pandering as the next person in the production chain. (Or they may even be under instructions to so produce in the first place.)

I do probably err on the side of sympathy for stifled creative intent, as far as which evil I personally think is worse goes. If the creator's just trying to cast the widest money net possible in the first place, though, (as I gather a good lot of video games and anime tend to be caught up in doing first&foremost, for both good and ill,) then losing such writing in localization doesn't seem so bad to me. It might even be in most everybody's direct interest.

(Except the players who would've loved that shit but get a localization without it. But I think they'll live.)

Moreover; A response from a forum where the average (mode) reaction was a lot closer to "so much of this game looks designed to grossly pander to backward otaku culture sleaziness that I'm considering not buying this" than I assume it has been on SF:

(...) it's all text, so there's nothing stopping the Treehouse from taking the basic premise of the situation (a wacky enchantment that results in a bunch of people appearing to have changed sex, leading into a perfunctory romantic conclusion with tendentious vagueness) and scrubbing away any stylistic resemblance to amateur translations of porn.

Remember how the amount of questionable stuff in Fire Emblem mysteriously diminished to an incredible degree starting from Fire Emblem 7 [onward]? There's no mystery. Remember how Cordelia never mentioned her breasts even once outside of DLC? Of course not, why would you even notice something like that? Remember liking Groose instead of thinking he's an unredeemable creep? Everything you ever liked about a Nintendo character's personality was an invention of Bill Trinen's band of merry men.

I do at minimum agree that localization is worthy enough of creative distinction that I try not to immediately boil at the mere fact that anything has been changed. Such that I might pause before calling any old dialogue change alone censorship.

Edited by Rehab
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Just out of interest, are the original versions of Eliwood, Marth, Soren, Inigo and Henry available to read in English (fan-translated or something) somewhere? I'm rather curious to see how they were originally supposed to be, certainly Marth & Eliwood.

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There are things I 100% do not want changed for the Western release. There are things I 100% DO want changed. It's very hard to predict at this point what will and won't be edited, but I think it's important to get it out there, from someone who's played the games in Japanese:

YOU HAVE NEVER PLAYED AN "INTACT" FIRE EMBLEM.

Here are some changes you probably never even knew existed:

  1. Eliwood - Eliwood's personality was completely rewritten for the English localization of Blazing Sword. While in the original Japanese script he was submissive, shy, stammering, and sensitive, he was given a more typically heroic personality for our release? Why? Western consumers tend to consider effeminate men weak and can't admire them as heroes. Eliwood was more like Ricken than Chrom, and would have turned a predominantly straight male audience off. The biggest example of this is how before the final fight, Eliwood says "Everyone, stand back, this is my fight!" in the English, and "Everyone, I need you now, I can't do this alone!" in the Japanese.

  2. Marth - Marth in Shadow Dragon underwent basically the exact same treatment as Eliwood. Sweetness, shyness, bashfulness and "weakness" erased and replaced with Western heroism.

  3. Soren - The prickly, bitter, angry Soren we all fell in love with has very little in common with his Japanese counterpart. All the parts of him that are angry and sour in the English are translated from, again, a very submissive, weak, and feminine personality in the Japanese. His interest in Ike as a love interest was a hundred times more explicit and there was very little doubt that Soren, at least, was in love. (Ike was still debatable.)

  4. Inigo - Japanese Inigo was a bashful, awkward failure and had zero success with women. He was defined more by his awkward try-hardness and basically never actually got a girl because he was too busy falling all over himself. (This is easy to tell if you turn on Japanese audio and listen to him talk.)

  5. Lyn - Lyn was 15 in the Japanese version. Aging her up to 18 was just a basic Westernizing, so that her romantic supports and exposed thighs are less creepy.

  6. Nowi - Nowi was written as a MUCH younger character in the Japanese script of Awakening. She skews about 14 in the English version, but appeared more 5-10 in the Japanese. The English goes to lengths to establish that Nowi only ACTS young. Also an invention. Nah literally calls her father a lolicon in their supports in the Japanese version, instead of the "pregnancy" comments.

  7. Character Names - I'd say around 40% or more of the character names we have are changed from the Japanese.

  8. The Black Knight - In the Japanese version of PoR, the Black Knight warps out of the collapsing fortress rather than disappearing under it. Western consumers are much less able to accept small plot holes like this than Eastern ones, so it was an obvious change.

  9. Kyza & Heather - Both were explicitly gay in the Japanese. Kyza's entire personality was stripped, because he was an offensive gay stereotype in Japan -- an "okama." Heather's flirting was turned up to 11 in the Japanese. There's a whole fascinating debate to be had about whether Kyza's sexuality disappearing is good or bad, but the undebatable side of it is that Radiant Dawn came out, it was 2007, eight years ago, and there was an entirely different public opinion in America about homosexuality than there is today.

  10. Henry - Henry is another one of those 100% rewritten characters. In the Japanese, he was neglected by his parents, raised by a wolf, killed his entire village after the wolf was killed, sent to an orphanage after that where he was tortured and broken. No magic school, no mage camp. He (edit: TRIES VERY HARD TO) kill the puppy in his Olivia support to put it out of its misery. No puns, and his laughter is less jokey and more sinister. An obvious change because the darkness of the original character didn't seem to fit into Awakening's slilghtly goofy anime tone.

Jokes on you: You didn't mention anything from Sacred Stones!

I actually did know all of those except Eliwood's and Inigo's.

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There are things I 100% do not want changed for the Western release. There are things I 100% DO want changed. It's very hard to predict at this point what will and won't be edited, but I think it's important to get it out there, from someone who's played the games in Japanese:

YOU HAVE NEVER PLAYED AN "INTACT" FIRE EMBLEM.

Here are some changes you probably never even knew existed:

  1. Eliwood - Eliwood's personality was completely rewritten for the English localization of Blazing Sword. While in the original Japanese script he was submissive, shy, stammering, and sensitive, he was given a more typically heroic personality for our release? Why? Western consumers tend to consider effeminate men weak and can't admire them as heroes. Eliwood was more like Ricken than Chrom, and would have turned a predominantly straight male audience off. The biggest example of this is how before the final fight, Eliwood says "Everyone, stand back, this is my fight!" in the English, and "Everyone, I need you now, I can't do this alone!" in the Japanese.

  2. Marth - Marth in Shadow Dragon underwent basically the exact same treatment as Eliwood. Sweetness, shyness, bashfulness and "weakness" erased and replaced with Western heroism.

  3. Soren - The prickly, bitter, angry Soren we all fell in love with has very little in common with his Japanese counterpart. All the parts of him that are angry and sour in the English are translated from, again, a very submissive, weak, and feminine personality in the Japanese. His interest in Ike as a love interest was a hundred times more explicit and there was very little doubt that Soren, at least, was in love. (Ike was still debatable.)

  4. Inigo - Japanese Inigo was a bashful, awkward failure and had zero success with women. He was defined more by his awkward try-hardness and basically never actually got a girl because he was too busy falling all over himself. (This is easy to tell if you turn on Japanese audio and listen to him talk.)

  5. Lyn - Lyn was 15 in the Japanese version. Aging her up to 18 was just a basic Westernizing, so that her romantic supports and exposed thighs are less creepy.

  6. Nowi - Nowi was written as a MUCH younger character in the Japanese script of Awakening. She skews about 14 in the English version, but appeared more 5-10 in the Japanese. The English goes to lengths to establish that Nowi only ACTS young. Also an invention. Nah literally calls her father a lolicon in their supports in the Japanese version, instead of the "pregnancy" comments.

  7. Character Names - I'd say around 40% or more of the character names we have are changed from the Japanese.

  8. The Black Knight - In the Japanese version of PoR, the Black Knight warps out of the collapsing fortress rather than disappearing under it. Western consumers are much less able to accept small plot holes like this than Eastern ones, so it was an obvious change.

  9. Kyza & Heather - Both were explicitly gay in the Japanese. Kyza's entire personality was stripped, because he was an offensive gay stereotype in Japan -- an "okama." Heather's flirting was turned up to 11 in the Japanese. There's a whole fascinating debate to be had about whether Kyza's sexuality disappearing is good or bad, but the undebatable side of it is that Radiant Dawn came out, it was 2007, eight years ago, and there was an entirely different public opinion in America about homosexuality than there is today.

  10. Henry - Henry is another one of those 100% rewritten characters. In the Japanese, he was neglected by his parents, raised by a wolf, killed his entire village after the wolf was killed, sent to an orphanage after that where he was tortured and broken. No magic school, no mage camp. He (edit: TRIES VERY HARD TO) kill the puppy in his Olivia support to put it out of its misery. No puns, and his laughter is less jokey and more sinister. An obvious change because the darkness of the original character didn't seem to fit into Awakening's slilghtly goofy anime tone.

Wow this is interesting. Didnt know some of this.

Edited by Iron Griffin
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There are things I 100% do not want changed for the Western release. There are things I 100% DO want changed. It's very hard to predict at this point what will and won't be edited, but I think it's important to get it out there, from someone who's played the games in Japanese:

YOU HAVE NEVER PLAYED AN "INTACT" FIRE EMBLEM.

Here are some changes you probably never even knew existed:

  1. Eliwood - Eliwood's personality was completely rewritten for the English localization of Blazing Sword. While in the original Japanese script he was submissive, shy, stammering, and sensitive, he was given a more typically heroic personality for our release? Why? Western consumers tend to consider effeminate men weak and can't admire them as heroes. Eliwood was more like Ricken than Chrom, and would have turned a predominantly straight male audience off. The biggest example of this is how before the final fight, Eliwood says "Everyone, stand back, this is my fight!" in the English, and "Everyone, I need you now, I can't do this alone!" in the Japanese.

  2. Marth - Marth in Shadow Dragon underwent basically the exact same treatment as Eliwood. Sweetness, shyness, bashfulness and "weakness" erased and replaced with Western heroism.

  3. Soren - The prickly, bitter, angry Soren we all fell in love with has very little in common with his Japanese counterpart. All the parts of him that are angry and sour in the English are translated from, again, a very submissive, weak, and feminine personality in the Japanese. His interest in Ike as a love interest was a hundred times more explicit and there was very little doubt that Soren, at least, was in love. (Ike was still debatable.)

  4. Inigo - Japanese Inigo was a bashful, awkward failure and had zero success with women. He was defined more by his awkward try-hardness and basically never actually got a girl because he was too busy falling all over himself. (This is easy to tell if you turn on Japanese audio and listen to him talk.)

  5. Lyn - Lyn was 15 in the Japanese version. Aging her up to 18 was just a basic Westernizing, so that her romantic supports and exposed thighs are less creepy.

  6. Nowi - Nowi was written as a MUCH younger character in the Japanese script of Awakening. She skews about 14 in the English version, but appeared more 5-10 in the Japanese. The English goes to lengths to establish that Nowi only ACTS young. Also an invention. Nah literally calls her father a lolicon in their supports in the Japanese version, instead of the "pregnancy" comments.

  7. Character Names - I'd say around 40% or more of the character names we have are changed from the Japanese.

  8. The Black Knight - In the Japanese version of PoR, the Black Knight warps out of the collapsing fortress rather than disappearing under it. Western consumers are much less able to accept small plot holes like this than Eastern ones, so it was an obvious change.

  9. Kyza & Heather - Both were explicitly gay in the Japanese. Kyza's entire personality was stripped, because he was an offensive gay stereotype in Japan -- an "okama." Heather's flirting was turned up to 11 in the Japanese. There's a whole fascinating debate to be had about whether Kyza's sexuality disappearing is good or bad, but the undebatable side of it is that Radiant Dawn came out, it was 2007, eight years ago, and there was an entirely different public opinion in America about homosexuality than there is today.

  10. Henry - Henry is another one of those 100% rewritten characters. In the Japanese, he was neglected by his parents, raised by a wolf, killed his entire village after the wolf was killed, sent to an orphanage after that where he was tortured and broken. No magic school, no mage camp. He (edit: TRIES VERY HARD TO) kill the puppy in his Olivia support to put it out of its misery. No puns, and his laughter is less jokey and more sinister. An obvious change because the darkness of the original character didn't seem to fit into Awakening's slilghtly goofy anime tone.

Wow.....amazing.

If that's the case, then I'm glad for many of those changes. People already rag on Eliwood or one reason or another. If he was weak and submissive on top of that, no doubt he'd be perceived as one of the worst lords of the series in the eyes of English viewers.

And Henry was definitely changed for the better. The Japanese version of him just seems over the top disturbing to the point where I can't even take it seriously. The English version made him so much more likable.

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While the localization of FE11 may have added some witty lines and tamer dialogue, Marth's personality between versions is not really as different as the post above makes it sound.

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While the localization of FE11 may have added some witty lines and tamer dialogue, Marth's personality between versions is not really as different as the post above makes it sound.

Yeah, I heard that he was portrayed as being more serious in both versions of Shadow Dragon, and that New Mystery of the Emblem returned him to his more naive personality.

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Some outfits I would like changed, and really, I don't care if they censor every little thing. I just want the battles and all the new combat systems. Cause really, that's what Fire Emblem is. A strategy game. They're taking it in this direction, to where it is a dating simulator where you can fight a little bit. 3 things I would like censored: Camilla's cutscene, Skinship and some support lines, and finally, the stripping/bathhouse. Camillas cutscene is obvious. The skinships and supports, obvious. The stripping I'm not okay with. The one thing is the bathhouse. I know it is Japenese culture, but at the same time, some lines are weird. (From what I have seen.) Plus, it's as bad as the stripping since you see the characters in their swimsuits. Honestly, I would like it censored, but won't be mad if it isn't.

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I'm curious about how the localization will be handled. It's clear though that there is a lot of work to be done. Honestly, treehouse probably make better screenwriters than That of IS and they probably have the same access to shin kibayashi's script so expect some scenes to be different. I honestly think the game will end up better after localization. However, fan service is a silly thing to censor, especially the amie lines (honestly some of those lines have interesting character and it would be a huge disappointment if they were removed). Camilla's cutscene doesn't bother me in particular and it is in line with the character. The crazy outfits can't actually be taken into the main story (wouldn't it be cool if there was an armor system in the next fe game though) and end up being completely ignorable. The soleil support with kamui needs changing because it's just messily written.

I think we should have a bit more faith in the #1 localization team in the world.

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Anyone who is pro censorship, should be ashamed of themselves.

Video game players and Anime fans have a very strong dislike against censorship and the Fire Emblem community is widely both. If you consider that point, the fact that there is such a wide support for the idea of the localization changing and even removing things is a very good indicator that it's IS who should be ashamed. ...or at least extremely embarrassed.

I mean, this scenario is almost unbelievable. At least I've never seen anything like that. Those aren't moral guardians who think their children are endangered by stuff they know nothing about. Those are players who love and adore the Fire Emblem series, who see their enjoyment of the games impacted.

While we are on it, I might as well mention that I am relatively indifferent about the matter because it's the entire direction of a franchise, which except for it's name seems unrecognizable to me these days, that I have a problem with. Stuff like the incest, the groping mechanic and particular gems like Kamui drugging his friends are just some of the most visible symptoms of that direction and I don't care all that much if the localization team is putting a little band-aid on a few sore spots.

Edited by BrightBow
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fortunately, i don't think Nintendo will cash a game graphic censorship it's different from a CG with Tharja's butt ... Nintendo has a bad fame to censor all the shit. But now we even have an increase in the CERO and even same sex marriage. I have a ray of hope that they will maintain most of it x_x

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Well, since they're changing the game anyway... (sounds like they're going to be localizing the singing and all soundfiles about the singing) ...it wouldn't really be un-doable for them to change some other aspects they didn't like whilst they've got the game open. They did it with Awakening and most fans didn't know/mind the changes, since in general it was for the better.

I'm partly wondering if they'd leave Hoshido alone and just change Nohr, though. It would add further emphasis the difference in culture to the casual player, adding more 'oomph' onto the choice. Do you pick the culture that's similar to your own, or the one that's different?

y'know, since they're going to change stuff anyway.

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I believe that a game should be able to stand on the merits of the gameplay and story in its purest form.

However, it may not be the best business decision to leave everything as is with cultural differences and all, plus i've seen localization change things for the better. So i'm kind of curious to see where Fates will fall in that regard. Gonna get it and play it either way :P

I have high hopes and expectations from the Treehouse folks.

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I wouldn't say I am pro-"censorship" but I am absolutely pro-localising, meaning that text is adapted for its audience rather than just directly translated. Some of my absolute favourite games writing-wise in recent years have been the Ace Attorney series and Kid Icarus: Uprising, both of which featured localisations which were not afraid to change the text to make it funnier or more appropriate for a Western audience. In Fates' case I'm certainly expecting a few supports to be changed significantly (as Cordelia's cup size angst was) and will applaud that in certain cases, and I won't shed any tears if skinshipping vanishes either. I want the localisers to go for whatever maximises the game's success and credibility in the local markets, for the most part.

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