To censor or not to sensor. (Localization for North America)

[Reflex]

Skinship is the single worst term that came from these amatuer translations.

[Airship Canon]

Skinship is the single worst term that came from these amatuer translations.

Just call it FE Amie.

[SkyknightXi]

The way this is going, maybe it would be for the best if Treehouse wrote the story for the next game? IS can still do the actual programming and game design. At the very least, it sounds like IS is (and, from the sounds of things, has been) a little too reliant on stereotypes, even irksome ones.

(Not sure how the Japanese audience would take it, of course...I can't help but wonder if any notable amount of the Japanese audience thought any number of Awakening's localizations were superior to their original.)

Or more plausibly, IS should take notes on how and where Treehouse altered things and characterizations, to have a better sense of how to appeal to the beyond-Japanese audiences, in both mores and precepts. (Although I have to wonder how well they appeal to the more liberal elements of Japan. Somehow, some of the elements that had to be re-localized don't look auspicious to me in that regard.)

[Reflex]

The one time IS goes outside for story, and that somehow triggers this? Are Fire Emblem fans only offended when they're not doing incredibly generic stories fighting dragons?

What works in Japan works there, and what doesn't is localized (I.E. adapted, not censored for purity or some shit) to the audience to the West. Wimpy, not-confident Eliwood works in Japan because that's how the culture is for being a single unit, while North America is all about individualism and taking on threats yourself.

[The DanMan]

Video game players and Anime fans have a very strong dislike against censorship and the Fire Emblem community is widely both. If you consider that point, the fact that there is such a wide support for the idea of the localization changing and even removing things is a very good indicator that it's IS who should be ashamed. ...or at least extremely embarrassed.

I mean, this scenario is almost unbelievable. At least I've never seen anything like that. Those aren't moral guardians who think their children are endangered by stuff they know nothing about. Those are players who love and adore the Fire Emblem series, who see their enjoyment of the games impacted.

While we are on it, I might as well mention that I am relatively indifferent about the matter because it's the entire direction of a franchise, which except for it's name seems unrecognizable to me these days, that I have a problem with. Stuff like the incest, the groping mechanic and particular gems like Kamui drugging his friends are just some of the most visible symptoms of that direction and I don't care all that much if the localization team is putting a little band-aid on a few sore spots.

Well said. Localization may change and tone down some things, but it's not just a few things that need to be toned down: it's the pandering-focused direction that the series has gone down. I frankly hope that some of the western "reviewers" don't get bought out by advertisements and call out the stupid shit that's going on in the game.

Unlikely? Yep. But one can dream.

[Reflex]

I hope the games are a super success and goes further into this direction, because the series "died" when loyal fans didn't help out the franchise when it mattered most, financially. Series died with Shadow Dragon, the end. And appropiate as well.

[The DanMan]

I hope the games are a super success and goes further into this direction, because the series "died" when loyal fans didn't help out the franchise when it mattered most, financially. Series died with Shadow Dragon, the end. And appropiate as well.

No. Just no,

Have you even glanced at the sales numbers? It was the borderline commercial failure of the Radiant games that put the series in some trouble. Shadow Dragon and New Mystery of the Emblem were put out to stall and cash-in on homeland nostalgia; and for quick comparision, Shadow Dragon sold only slightly less than FE7 (approximately 250,000 vs 275,000).

And the reasons the series was put in that position in the first place are two key ones:

(a) Japan had developed its' affinity for handhelds, and bringing the series back to consoles (not to mention the Gamecube wasn't doing so hot in the first place) was not a good idea.

And (b) Nintendo never advertised the series. The series had nostalgia going for it in Japan, while the west had to rely on word-of-mouth. Your accusations of the fans abandoning the franchise are just so wrong; if anything, it was only the core fans who bought the games. And this is working off of the assumption that the series was in danger; it wasn't. The 250,000 mark was how much New Mystery of the Emblem sold... and that game was Japan only. The series wasn't in need of saving: it was Nintendo motivating IntSys to make it more profitable.

[Zachmac]

Or more plausibly, IS should take notes on how and where Treehouse altered things and characterizations, to have a better sense of how to appeal to the beyond-Japanese audiences, in both mores and precepts. (Although I have to wonder how well they appeal to the more liberal elements of Japan. Somehow, some of the elements that had to be re-localized don't look auspicious to me in that regard.)

This.

If IS starts considering it's worldwide audience first, and not just Japan, then we won't have to be having arguments like this, and IS wouldn't of put so much effort into controversial game features like FE Amie.

[Great Geargia Gateway]

No. Just no,

Have you even glanced at the sales numbers? It was the borderline commercial failure of the Radiant games that put the series in some trouble. Shadow Dragon and New Mystery of the Emblem were put out to stall and cash-in on homeland nostalgia; and for quick comparision, Shadow Dragon sold only slightly less than FE7 (approximately 250,000 vs 275,000).

And the reasons the series was put in that position in the first place are two key ones:

(a) Japan had developed its' affinity for handhelds, and bringing the series back to consoles (not to mention the Gamecube wasn't doing so hot in the first place) was not a good idea.

And (b) Nintendo never advertised the series. The series had nostalgia going for it in Japan, while the west had to rely on word-of-mouth. Your accusations of the fans abandoning the franchise are just so wrong; if anything, it was only the core fans who bought the games. And this is working off of the assumption that the series was in danger; it wasn't. The 250,000 mark was how much New Mystery of the Emblem sold... and that game was Japan only. The series wasn't in need of saving: it was Nintendo motivating IntSys to make it more profitable.

This makes me think...

Do you think IntSys is just blind, scared, or not putting a lot of trust into FE? I mean, have they realized the main thing was advertising, not well timed releases, casual players and anime tropes? Do they just lean towards what made Awakening so great and away from what they thought was going to make the series better; the marriage system, anime tropes and removed mechanics and they add these because they don't want to go back to almost stopping FE again? Or just go for quantity over quality?

Unorthodox question, but this question is on my mind for a while.

[The DanMan]

This makes me think...

Do you think IntSys is just blind, scared, or not putting a lot of trust into FE? I mean, have they realized the main thing was advertising, not well timed releases, casual players and anime tropes? Do they just lean towards what made Awakening so great and away from what they thought was going to make the series better; the marriage system, anime tropes and removed mechanics and they add these because they don't want to go back to almost stopping FE again? Or just go for quantity over quality?

Unorthodox question, but this question is on my mind for a while.

They seem to just be taking the easy way out.

Mo' of that stuff = mo' money. From a business perspective, it's to be expected.

Yet at the same time, they took the time and effort to balance Fates and introduce mechanics, enough effort that more than a few people on here are calling it one of the best in the series, gameplay-wise.

It feels like they're trying to appease everyone, but sooner or later (it's beginning to seem like sooner) they're going to have to confront whether they want to cater to their classic fans or just sell the series on fanservice. I'm both very excited and scared to see this happen.

[Great Geargia Gateway]

The drama of one of the most biggest Nintendo franchises is amusing isn't it? Makes you glad to be a fan in any side, but this wait for the western release to get opinions of reviewers will take so long.

[Random Person]

^ I wouldn't call Fire Emblem *one of the most biggest Nintendo franchises*

FE isn't selling as much as Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, Tomodachi Life or Animal Crossing.

[Dark Holy Elf]

They seem to just be taking the easy way out.

Mo' of that stuff = mo' money. From a business perspective, it's to be expected.

Yet at the same time, they took the time and effort to balance Fates and introduce mechanics, enough effort that more than a few people on here are calling it one of the best in the series, gameplay-wise.

It feels like they're trying to appease everyone, but sooner or later (it's beginning to seem like sooner) they're going to have to confront whether they want to cater to their classic fans or just sell the series on fanservice. I'm both very excited and scared to see this happen.

They're very obviously trying to have the best of both worlds. From all accounts, they aren't just trying to sell the games on fanservice, as all indications show they've put more thought into the gameplay of Fates than they have any game in the series in a long time. But they add in the fanservice because they have figured that it brings in more new players than it scares away. And they're almost certainly right.

So yeah I don't think this confrontation is a thing which is going to happen.

[Reflex]

^ I wouldn't call Fire Emblem *one of the most biggest Nintendo franchises*

FE isn't selling as much as Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, Tomodachi Life or Animal Crossing.

Splatoon is probably a bigger franchise than Fire Emblem at this point, considering it sold over a million on the WiiU which is a huge feat.

As much as people here think it's on the rise, it's still incredibly niche as far as franchises go.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Reflex

[Ananas]

IS did a good job to give a "final" chance to the FE franchise with Fire Emblem: Awakening, making the series more open to other players than the usual fans. They mqde their audience wider and wider... When you're in a pinch, give your all and see what the future will offer. Even if FE is always a little niche franchise comparing to other Nintendo games, you could clearly see how it became an important franchise woldwide-wise. Awakening wasn't as difficult as the previous games, the tactical mechanics aren't so known and infamous in western games but they made it really accessible for new gamers, marriage and children was a feature that attracted a lot of new people (my friend is one of those persons) and finally... the western localisation team made a fine job to bring us the game as enjoyable. You can criticise some of their choices like censoring Tharja's Harvest scramble CG but... most of their choices were good. You can't deny the original game is really cliché (even the producer said it)... Japanese!Henry and Gregor are great exemples as well as Cordelia who's depicted as a strong woman who's obsessed with her cup size in the japanese version. I'm globally satisfied with the western Awakening, to be honest.

Now, regarding the localisation of Fates...

In general, i'm against censorship. I want, like some of you, to play the original content and judge a game by myself... making my own opinion. It's normal. However, i can't deny some localisation changes to appeal the western audience aren't bad. Some things aren't funny in the West like a propiscuous man who has some lolicon vibes or some other perverted clichés... There's also some tropes that makes more lovable/appealing a character in Japan that are just annoying in the West like Tsundere girls. It's fine to me if they want to "improve" some characterization aspects in the final western localized product. If they don't change the mainline story to its core, i don't mind that.

Now... What i suppose they'll remove/change:

- The FE amie: It's obvious. Not that they'll remove it because it's quite an important optional feature but they may change some lines of some characters... because it's quite suggestive for our ears that are not so familiar with these features (Drama CDs are even more suggestive and in Japan, it's quite a common thing that Otaku buy, so...).

- The Soleil/Mamui support conversations: It'll likely happen since some dumb misinformed video games sites spread the hoax to the point some new players or fans who don't want to spoil themselves decided to boycott the game... I don't want this support censored at all since there's nothing to be worried about it but... misinformation can ruin things. And Soleil/Mamui support conversations will probably change because of that.

- Some supports: Minor changes or not, there's some supports like Camilla/Zero that could be censored.

- Optional clothes: You know, the clothes you can get for streetpass battles like a swimsuit... I think they'll remove some stuffs or alterate these. I don't know but i sense it.

And i don't think they'll remove the baths... There's nothing in these. Plus, like some others said, Tales of series, for example, has always a bath skit/event and it didn't raise the rating.

And don't forget: some of the stuffs that are controversial are optional.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Ananas

[RWB]

Video game players and Anime fans have a very strong dislike against censorship and the Fire Emblem community is widely both. If you consider that point, the fact that there is such a wide support for the idea of the localization changing and even removing things is a very good indicator that it's IS who should be ashamed. ...or at least extremely embarrassed.

This is just not true- Nintendo fans, and I say that as one, tend to lean towards censorship MUCH more than other groups and especially when Nintendo does it(because as annoying as the nintendrone comments from fanboys of other franchises are, there is a modicum of truth to them- some Nintendo fans are willing to bend over backwards to justify nintendo's decisions, whether they be censorhip or badly thought out online setup- Brawl got a lot of defense despite being nigh unplayable on average internet).

Also, a good chunk of anime fans hate what they call "waifu garbage"(never mind if it actually is garbage) and rag on about how it should never be included in anything ever or taken out of it, so yeah, it's not really true for them either.*

Anime Fans and Video gamers come from all political directions, from extreme right-wing to extremely authoritarian left-wing, and at both ends, and even for some in the middle censorship is seen as a benefit. It's not at all rare among gamers to be pro-censorship.

Also, "If you consider that point, the fact that there is such a wide support for the idea of the localization changing and even removing things is a very good indicator that it's IS who should be ashamed. ...or at least extremely embarrassed."

No, not really. Censorship is always used on so called "uncomfortable" things, so this is absolutely the same stuff that always show up.

I mean, this scenario is almost unbelievable. At least I've never seen anything like that. Those aren't moral guardians who think their children are endangered by stuff they know nothing about. Those are players who love and adore the Fire Emblem series, who see their enjoyment of the games impacted.

I've seen the same scenario dozens of times, this is hardly rare, and there is nothing special about these cries for censorship, they are old hat.

While we are on it, I might as well mention that I am relatively indifferent about the matter because it's the entire direction of a franchise, which except for it's name seems unrecognizable to me these days, that I have a problem with. Stuff like the incest, the groping mechanic and particular gems like Kamui drugging his friends are just some of the most visible symptoms of that direction and I don't care all that much if the localization team is putting a little band-aid on a few sore spots.

*A lighter form of this hate for "waifu-pandering" is usually seen in the FE fanbase, and you yourself show signs of being sorta in that camp with how you feel it changes what the series is about, despite the fact that the games play mostly the same, still feature stock archetype characters(FE7 was blatantly like that for example), it's just that more content is in there now. Some say it's at the cost of story, but FE was NEVER particularly good in that department. It had rare flashes of brilliance, but that was it.

At worst you could argue about the credibility of the franchise.