Unit Optimization Thread

[Bovinian]

Wouldn't he just inherit cavalier from Jakob instead? So, peg warrior and rod knight from Azura, and cavalier from Jakob since he already has rod knight.

I don't remember what evidence was used to back it up, but someone suggested in another thread that the classes the father passes down are always decided first, even in Shigure's case where Azura is the fixed parent. If this is true, then it would happen in this order: Shigure has Peg Warrior as his starting class. He inherits Rod Knight from Jakob. When it is Azura's turn to pass something down, both Pegasus Warrior and Rod Knight are already taken, so ???????

Neither Pegasus Warrior nor Rod Knight are Azura's base class, so it's not obvious which one would be changed into a "faction parallel" for inheritance, if any at all. Rod Knight was probably already meant to be the replacement for Singer anyway?

I have no idea if all this is true, just explaining the reasoning behind this possibility.

Edited July 25, 2015 by Bovinian

[Aidil]

Jakob!Shigure gets Wyvern Rider, of all things. I checked it myself.

[Azz]

Jakob!Shigure gets Wyvern Rider, of all things. I checked it myself.

Really?How weird.I know I am asking a lot but what does Oboro!Kisaragi get?

[Aidil]

Oboro!Kisaragi gets the Herb merchant class tree, which makes sense since Oboro's secondary class is that. Shigure just seems to be a special case.

[Azz]

Oboro!Kisaragi gets the Herb merchant class tree, which makes sense since Oboro's secondary class is that. Shigure just seems to be a special case.

Yeah that does make sense.

It is nice that they made it so no child has less then three classes.I was here worried since many of the pairings I wanted to do had overlap

Thanks for the help guys..

[Bovinian]

Jakob!Shigure gets Wyvern Rider, of all things. I checked it myself.

Alright, then that confirms that the father side's inheritance takes priority, and Shigure ends up getting the Pegasus Warrior parallel. Cool

[capmalachi]

I don't remember what evidence was used to back it up, but someone suggested in another thread that the classes the father passes down are always decided first, even in Shigure's case where Azura is the fixed parent. If this is true, then it would happen in this order: Shigure has Peg Warrior as his starting class. He inherits Rod Knight from Jakob. When it is Azura's turn to pass something down, both Pegasus Warrior and Rod Knight are already taken, so ???????

Neither Pegasus Warrior nor Rod Knight are Azura's base class, so it's not obvious which one would be changed into a "faction parallel" for inheritance, if any at all. Rod Knight was probably already meant to be the replacement for Singer anyway?

I have no idea if all this is true, just explaining the reasoning behind this possibility.

Well, that's... weird. It makes sense that the father's classes would take priority most of the time since they're usually the fixed parent, but it's a little odd for Azura (and I guess femui, if her alt class is shared with her husband?). As far as I can tell this is the only case where Azura can't pass down either class (Edit- Wait, I guess there's Mamui too but whatever, Shigure'd presumably still get wyvern rider in that case anyway. Second edit- Hang on, I brain farted, he'd get dark prince presumably), but it could happen in a lot of cases with Femui, right? If she shares her husband's base class, then Kanna would have dark prince as his base class, and then her husband would pass down his class, let's say Arthur giving him fighter, and then if Femui had fighter as her reclass then she wouldn't have anything to give to Kanna. Unless I'm misunderstanding how it works. Or if Femui is a special case and takes priority anyway, of course.

Edited July 25, 2015 by capmalachi

[Bovinian]

Well, that's... weird. It makes sense that the father's classes would take priority most of the time since they're usually the fixed parent, but it's a little odd for Azura (and I guess femui, if her alt class is shared with her husband?). As far as I can tell this is the only case where Azura can't pass down either class (Edit- Wait, I guess there's Mamui too but whatever, Shigure'd presumably still get wyvern rider in that case anyway), but it could happen in a lot of cases with Femui, right? If she shares her husband's base class, then Kanna would have dark prince as his base class, and then her husband would pass down his class, let's say Arthur giving him fighter, and then if Femui had fighter as her reclass then she wouldn't have anything to give to Kanna. Unless I'm misunderstanding how it works. Or if Femui is a special case and takes priority anyway, of course.

Yeah you're right, assuming the same rules that apply to Azura apply to Femui. Interesting...

For what it's worth though, Femui is also the only mother who doesn't pass down her hair color to her child, in the case of Kanna. So for Kanna specifically, she might take the role of the "man" lol.

She does pass it down to her second child where she is no longer the fixed parent, but Dark Princess will never overlap there so there wouldn't be any issues.

Edited July 25, 2015 by Bovinian

[capmalachi]

You'd think if they were going to specifically code it so that Femui passes down her classes first that they'd just do the same for Azura as well, since she's the only other mother with a fixed child. Or just have it tied to the fixed parent rather than the father specifically. Should be easy enough to test whether Femui will pass down a new class in cases where she shares her husband's class, although exactly what she'd pass down in every situation will take longer. I don't have the game though so I can't test it myself.

[mimasho]

So I'm completely out of funds for my invisible kingdom run, and I need the holy great merchant Midoriko fast;

any advice on who's the best mother for her // what skills I should pass down to her ?

the only units I've married off so far are Oboro and Takumi, and my F!Kamui will not be marrying Suzukaze..

but anyone else is fine ; u ;

[spoiler=DLC class]also who should be given great lord class, Belka or Matoi ?

or...neither ?

[Bovinian]

So I'm completely out of funds for my invisible kingdom run, and I need the holy great merchant Midoriko fast;

any advice on who's the best mother for her // what skills I should pass down to her ?

the only units I've married off so far are Oboro and Takumi, and my F!Kamui will not be marrying Suzukaze..

but anyone else is fine ; u ;

[spoiler=DLC class]also who should be given great lord class, Belka or Matoi ?

or...neither ?

If it's solely for funds you could give her Rinka for access to Smithy Skill?

[Wayward Alchemist]

So I'm completely out of funds for my invisible kingdom run, and I need the holy great merchant Midoriko fast;

any advice on who's the best mother for her // what skills I should pass down to her ?

the only units I've married off so far are Oboro and Takumi, and my F!Kamui will not be marrying Suzukaze..

but anyone else is fine ; u ;

[spoiler=DLC class]also who should be given great lord class, Belka or Matoi ?

or...neither ?

For gold purposes only...

-Easy Life

-Smithy Skill

-Luck +4 (Purchace)/Hoshido (Purchace/DLC)/Flamboyant (S support Shino/A+ Shara)

-See above options

-Copycat Puppet if it works with Easy Life and Smithy Skill, if not just pick one of the above skills as a filler

I'm just gonna say that it's hard to pick out a mother for Midoriko. Kaze hates his kid. Personally, I'd do Elise!Mido, as it boosts her Mag and Luck growths and caps to a reasonable level. Make her a Strategist for the highest Luck cap in the game, and you are... Well, Mido will never be golden because of her doucher dad, but it'll give her a good max 47% (33 cap Lck + 10% Lucky Charm bonus + 4% Lck +4), 53% percent (with Broshido), or 62% (Flamboyant) twice per turn. You might have to feed her all of your Luck boosts and pair her up with her mom/S supported Deere or Foleo or Mamui as a Maid or Butler for +3%.

Edit: Basara and War Priestess have higher Luck, albeit by only 2 points.

Edited July 25, 2015 by JothTheConqueror

[HeoandReo]

Azura!Midoriko (and Setsuna!Midoriko I suppose) occupies an excellent niche as a high speed debuffer if she goes Elite Ninja. As Elite Ninja, she gets 39 skill and 42 speed, which is one of the highest possible for a non-Kanna child.

42 speed is actually a really good threshold to hit, especially as a Shuriken user who will get 2 speed just for equipping one. She cannot be doubled by the fastest Kannas barring ones mothered by Kinu, she functionally has a doubling range of 39-44 depending on if she equips Swallow Strike with a Shuriken. High speed helps both offensively and defensively, since she can double just about any unit naturally while only very specific builds can double her in return. Pair her with Shinonome for Breaking Sky and Defense/Speed Seals and you have a unit that is very good at softening enemies up, with good killing potential thanks to her speed too.

I'd recommend Kaze as a father for Shigure as well, mostly because he gives a lot of useful skills for a potential supporter, namely Copycat, Snake Venom, and Kunaifaire if he opts to go Butler or another Elite Ninja.

[mimasho]

If it's solely for funds you could give her Rinka for access to Smithy Skill?

hmm didn't think of giving her that skill before ! * U * probably won't be marrying him to Rinka, but thanks for the tip ! will try to pick up the skill for her ~

For gold purposes only...

-Easy Life

-Smithy Skill

-Luck +4 (Purchace)/Hoshido (Purchace/DLC)/Flamboyant (S support Shino/A+ Shara)

-See above options

-Copycat Puppet if it works with Easy Life and Smithy Skill, if not just pick one of the above skills as a filler

I'm just gonna say that it's hard to pick out a mother for Midoriko. Kaze hates his kid. Personally, I'd do Elise!Mido, as it boosts her Mag and Luck growths and caps to a reasonable level. Make her a Strategist for the highest Luck cap in the game, and you are... Well, Mido will never be golden because of her doucher dad, but it'll give her a good max 47% (33 cap Lck + 10% Lucky Charm bonus + 4% Lck +4), 53% percent (with Broshido), or 62% (Flamboyant) twice per turn. You might have to feed her all of your Luck boosts and pair her up with her mom/S supported Deere or Foleo or Mamui as a Maid or Butler for +3%.

Edit: Basara and War Priestess have higher Luck, albeit by only 2 points.

Wow, thanks for the detailed response ! * U *

I wanted to make her a great merchant as her end class...but you have some very compelling points xD

I don't have any plans for Elise, so that's definitely a huge possibility I'm considering;

I'm personally not a huge fan of strategists, but I'll see what happens !

let me just write all this down in my fe planning notebook

Azura!Midoriko (and Setsuna!Midoriko I suppose) occupies an excellent niche as a high speed debuffer if she goes Elite Ninja. As Elite Ninja, she gets 39 skill and 42 speed, which is one of the highest possible for a non-Kanna child.

42 speed is actually a really good threshold to hit, especially as a Shuriken user who will get 2 speed just for equipping one. She cannot be doubled by the fastest Kannas barring ones mothered by Kinu, she functionally has a doubling range of 39-44 depending on if she equips Swallow Strike with a Shuriken. High speed helps both offensively and defensively, since she can double just about any unit naturally while only very specific builds can double her in return. Pair her with Shinonome for Breaking Sky and Defense/Speed Seals and you have a unit that is very good at softening enemies up, with good killing potential thanks to her speed too.

I'd recommend Kaze as a father for Shigure as well, mostly because he gives a lot of useful skills for a potential supporter, namely Copycat, Snake Venom, and Kunaifaire if he opts to go Butler or another Elite Ninja.

aah another great idea ! Don't have any plans for Aqua or Setsuna yet either, so I'll consider this as well...

I'm going to need to figure out my plans for the other units before I start officiating anything I guess ~!

writing this down as well your advice is much appreciated ! * U *

[Aidil]

[spoiler=DLC class]also who should be given great lord class, Belka or Matoi ?

or...neither ?

I gave Hinoka!Matoi great lord and I'm pretty happy with it. Skills are Aether, Awakening, Hoshido, Dragon Fang and Swordfaire. I currently have a lot of statues in my castle so stats are higher than they should be, but if you're interested, she's 40/19/41/45/36/35/35 (str/mag/ski/spd/lck/def/res).

Also if you need funds fast, I can get you a few my castle addresses to recruit money making Midoriko's. But if you plan to play without the my castle shenanigans, Aqua is definitely one of the better mothers, being able to pass down luck+4. Kaze is also a good father for Shigure, as stated above.

[mimasho]

I gave Hinoka!Matoi great lord and I'm pretty happy with it. Skills are Aether, Awakening, Hoshido, Dragon Fang and Swordfaire. I currently have a lot of statues in my castle so stats are higher than they should be, but if you're interested, she's 40/19/41/45/36/35/35 (str/mag/ski/spd/lck/def/res).

Also if you need funds fast, I can get you a few my castle addresses to recruit money making Midoriko's. But if you plan to play without the my castle shenanigans, Aqua is definitely one of the better mothers, being able to pass down luck+4. Kaze is also a good father for Shigure, as stated above.

oh, I'll keep that in mind ! I'll probably go either Aqua!Matoi or Luna!Matoi though, I'm marrying Hinoka off to Marx haha ~

but thanks, noted ! * U * and alright, looks like Aqua and Elise are my strongest contestants for Midoriko's mother !

Also that would be great -do you happen to know any with copycat ? ; u ;

I just need some funds quickly so I can buy seals and start grinding my units ~

I am sitting at a pitiful 2500 lol

please treasure of the ruins hurry and come out

[Bovinian]

oh, I'll keep that in mind ! I'll probably go either Aqua!Matoi or Luna!Matoi though, I'm marrying Hinoka off to Marx haha ~

but thanks, noted ! * U * and alright, looks like Aqua and Elise are my strongest contestants for Midoriko's mother !

Also that would be great -do you happen to know any with copycat ? ; u ;

I just need some funds quickly so I can buy seals and start grinding my units ~

I am sitting at a pitiful 2500 lol

please treasure of the ruins hurry and come out

Azura will be the better short term choice for money making because of Luck+4 and good Strength growths. A lot of these suggestions are for long term optimization which won't really help you with your current funds problem. Elise!Midoriko in particular will probably not be able to kill anything when you first get her because Elise will kill her Strength base/growth, and Midoriko/Kaze both have nonexistent magic base growths so Elise won't help her much there either :/

Edit: Well technically you don't need to kill anything for Easy Life to activate, and Elise's Luck growth is indeed huge. If you don't care about MIdoriko's immediate combat potential I suppose you could go with Elise

Edited July 25, 2015 by Bovinian

[mimasho]

Azura will be the better short term choice for money making because of Luck+4 and good Strength growths. A lot of these suggestions are for long term optimization which won't really help you with your current funds problem. Elise!Midoriko in particular will probably not be able to kill anything when you first get her because Elise will kill her Strength base/growth, and Midoriko/Kaze both have nonexistent magic base growths so Elise won't help her much there either :/

aah but you see, I'd rather not have to go with a mother who I'd rather pair with someone else just to quickly solve my lack of funds issue ; u ;

I paired Felicia with Suzukaze on my Hoshido run and didn't have any problems with getting quick funds;

I'd be fine with her slow growth rates and whatnot as long as I can get make her stronger in the long run !

I just want to know which mother I should start pairing Suzukaze with...who I haven't used at all ; u ;

[Aidil]

I pm'd you a few addresses. Put them to good use XD They should solve your funds problem until the DLC comes out. Also Copycats can't trigger Easy Life.

So if you're optimizing for the long term, it really depends. I made a mistake and paired Kaze with Kagerou, when I was planning to have Midoriko use Hoshido/Flamboyant/Lethality and should've gone Mozume!Midoriko. Mozume!Midoriko is also a good option for a pure offense Midoriko - gives her lots of Skill, Speed and Luck which fits perfectly for Elite Ninja. Making that pairing though would depend on if you want to have Mozume for Midoriko, since Mozume is one of the most potent mothers.

[astrophys]

For optimal use in the main game, how would Subaki fair as a Golden Kite Warrior as a flier killer?

Yes, GKW has inferior growths overall to Falcon Warrior… however, it has a pair of key advantages:

1. Ranged effective weaponry vs. Fliers (Bows) ---> This may help him overcome his lowish strength growth by getting lots of free super-effective damage.

2. Soar + Perfectionist. Soar gives a general +30/30 Hit/Avoid vs. Fliers. Perfectionist gives +15/15 Hit/Avoid when health is full. Thus, a total of +45 Hit/+45 avoid just from these skills. Super-effective weaponry (bows) vs. fliers may contribute to 1-shot kills… if they don't have bows or tomes themselves and don't have throwing weapons equipped, they might not be able to fight back anyways, thus helping Subaki keep the perfectionist bonus. Subaki also has flowing strike access, although that would require an extra reclass (or two if one wants to return to the original class). That could let him get +30 player phase avoid, +15 avoid when at full health, and +30 avoid vs. fliers, for a total of +75 avoid on the player phase when at full health vs. fliers. As well as +45 hit vs. said fliers when at full health.

[Ebony]

I'm sorry to keep bugging you all with this but... if I don't marry Oboro to Subaki, and instead marry Aqua to him, who should I put Oboro with?

Also to answer the Subaki question, I'd probably put him into Golden-Kite Warrior, but that's also because I'd most likely have a lot of Falcon Knights and would want at least one character in the class, which I think he'd fit well.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Ebony

[astrophys]

Maybe Oboro x Takumi… Oboro likes him anyways…

Takumi: +1 Str, +0 Mag, +3 Skl, -2 Spd, +1 Lck, +0 Def, -2 Res

Oboro: +1 Str, -1 Mag, +1 Skl, +1 Spd, -1 Lck, +1 Def, -1 Res

Child: +3 Str, +0 Mag, +5 Skl, +0 Spd, +1 Lck, +2 Def, -2 Res

Of course, in main-game, growths likely matter more…. but that takes more time to calculate….

With regards to Luna x Tsubaki in 3rd route… would it be a good idea to class change Matoi over to Weapons Master after her promotion at some point….

Reasoning:

1. Luna!Matoi (actually, all Matois) have inherent access to Swordfaire via automatic class inheritance from Tsubaki. In this pairing's case, its their only weapon-faire.

2. However, Matoi starts with Lance ranks.

3. Weapons Master has lance (up to B) and sword ranks available, so she can keep her lance while taking the opportunity to start training swords.

4. Weapons master gives her Flowing Strike (may combo with Swallow Strike that she knows automatically), Vantage, and Strength Seal…. Luna and Tsubaki's strong stats include defense, so if growth inherit Luna!Matoi should have a 41.66% personal growth.

Then, after picking up some skills like this and having had an opportunity to train her swords while having a higher lance rank available in a pinch, she could class change into Trueblade to pick up Astra/Swordfaire…. or she could class change into Hero for Sol/Axebreaker…. or even both consecutively….

What do people think?

[Ebony]

Maybe Oboro x Takumi… Oboro likes him anyways…

Takumi: +1 Str, +0 Mag, +3 Skl, -2 Spd, +1 Lck, +0 Def, -2 Res

Oboro: +1 Str, -1 Mag, +1 Skl, +1 Spd, -1 Lck, +1 Def, -1 Res

Child: +3 Str, +0 Mag, +5 Skl, +0 Spd, +1 Lck, +2 Def, -2 Res

Of course, in main-game, growths likely matter more…. but that takes more time to calculate….

With regards to Luna x Tsubaki in 3rd route… would it be a good idea to class change Matoi over to Weapons Master after her promotion at some point….

Reasoning:

1. Luna!Matoi (actually, all Matois) have inherent access to Swordfaire via automatic class inheritance from Tsubaki. In this pairing's case, its their only weapon-faire.

2. However, Matoi starts with Lance ranks.

3. Weapons Master has lance (up to B) and sword ranks available, so she can keep her lance while taking the opportunity to start training swords.

4. Weapons master gives her Flowing Strike (may combo with Swallow Strike that she knows automatically), Vantage, and Strength Seal…. Luna and Tsubaki's strong stats include defense, so if growth inherit Luna!Matoi should have a 41.66% personal growth.

Then, after picking up some skills like this and having had an opportunity to train her swords while having a higher lance rank available in a pinch, she could class change into Trueblade to pick up Astra/Swordfaire…. or she could class change into Hero for Sol/Axebreaker…. or even both consecutively….

What do people think?

Problem with that is that -I'm- marrying Takumi... ._.

The Weapons Master is something I never thought of. When I get the game (NEXT YEAR WHY) I'll probably try that out because that actually sounds really cool (and kind of makes sense, perfectionist = good at using all weapons?)

[HeoandReo]

I'm sorry to keep bugging you all with this but... if I don't marry Oboro to Subaki, and instead marry Aqua to him, who should I put Oboro with?

Also to answer the Subaki question, I'd probably put him into Golden-Kite Warrior, but that's also because I'd most likely have a lot of Falcon Knights and would want at least one character in the class, which I think he'd fit well.

In Invisible Kingdom Eponine is a great candidate to be mothered by Oboro. Mods are pretty balanced - she gets good bulk, 5 speed and 0/0 offenses, but Eponine gets a ton from Oboro skillwise. Breaking Sky is awesome, Holy Lancer is a good ending class, and the seals are great to have too. She can inherit Extravagance for high offense or Copycat for utility. Eponine can also marry Gurei, Foleo or Deere to get a kunai class to take advantage of some of the seals, as well as her high speed. Speed Seal is particularly useful with Oboro (the S rank shuriken, not the mother) since iirc it doesn't target speed as a debuff.

Ignis isn't a bad candidate either - his speed hole is kind of bad, but he's capable of a few things. Lancefaire would be useful if he's ending as a General, and like Eponine he can nab Ninja from A+ Gurei or Rod Knight from A+ Foleo. Ignis isn't magic oriented at all, though, so Ninja would be the better class for him to pick up. Sophie is another candidate who likes getting Lance Fighter access, and I imagine Deere would like her too.

It's actually a bit tougher to pair her with a Hoshido husband imo, since she gives a ton of benefits to all of them, so it's mostly a matter of trying to figure out who would benefit the most. Mitama might be the best bet, since she really would like a good offensive class and a good proc to work with her physical stats, and Oboro delivers on both, in addition to giving great stats. Lance Fighter distribution is actually really poor, so it's a matter of trying to find which kids would benefit the most from Oboro's skillset, since with Breaking Sky/Flamboyant/Lancefaire/Seals/Extravagance/Copycat combined with good mods, her kid is going to get a lot of mileage out of her as a mother.

Edited July 26, 2015 by HeoandReo

[Ebony]

In Invisible Kingdom Eponine is a great candidate to be mothered by Oboro. Mods are pretty balanced - she gets good bulk and 5 speed, but Eponine gets a ton from Oboro skillwise. Breaking Sky is awesome, Holy Lancer is a good ending class, and the seals are great to have too. She can inherit Extravagance for high offense or Copycat for utility. Eponine can also marry Gurei, Foleo or Deere to get a kunai class to take advantage of some of the seals, as well as her high speed. Speed Seal is particularly useful with Oboro (the S rank shuriken, not the mother) since iirc it doesn't target speed as a debuff.

Ignis isn't a bad candidate either - his speed hole is kind of bad, but he's capable of a few things. Lancefaire would be useful if he's ending as a General, and like Eponine he can nab Ninja from A+ Gurei or Rod Knight from A+ Foleo. Ignis isn't magic oriented at all, though, so Ninja would be the better class for him to pick up. Sophie is another candidate who likes getting Lance Fighter access, and I imagine Deere would like her too.

It's actually a bit tougher to pair her with a Hoshido husband imo, since she give a ton of benefits to all of them, so it's mostly a matter of trying to figure out who would benefit the most. Mitama might be the best bet, since she really would like a good offensive class and a good proc to work with her physical stats, and Oboro delivers on both, in addition to giving great stats. Lance Fighter distribution is actually really poor, so it's a matter of trying to find which kids would benefit the most from Oboro's skillset, since with Breaking Sky/Flamboyant/Seals/Extravagance/Copycat combined with good mods, her kid is going to get a lot of mileage out of her as a mother.

I'm just asking this because I still don't have someone to pair Aqua with, so if I pair her with Subaki instead, that'll free up Oboro, and then I"ll use her on Mitama, but then tha'tll leave Setsuna out. Hmm...

Like I said sorry I keep spamming this topic, I'm just trying to figure out who to get in Hoshido first before I move onto Nohr, then IK.