Unit Optimization Thread

[astrophys]

My thoughts on a few of your pairings.

Kanna - Doesn't Elite Ninja only have like 27 STR to begin with, and you're taking a -2 STR mod? Yes, you have utterly amazing skill and speed (41 SKL, 46 SPD), but you'll be doing really low damage without procs. You can get Breaking Sky to really high activations, but I'm not sure how useful so much speed will be if you're that low on STR>

Foleo - I've also arrived at using Sakura!Foleo, although for different reasons. I think its a good pairing for gameplay.

Jakob x Azura - I like this one for the reasons that you've listed (indeed, I made some posts advocating it earlier), and Jakob also seems to be somewhat nicer in these supports than in some of his others.

Silas x Hinoka - seems like a good pairing and some nice sharing of weapon ranks. I have my own biases that lead me to put Hinoka elsewhere, but this seems solid.

Subaki x Oboro - Its a good pairing. I tend to use Hinoka to give Matoi Lance Fighter instead. Not as physically tanky (+5 vs. +3) although still with a good DEF mod, but in exchange avoids having a resistance vulnerability and makes it a strength instead (-1 vs. +2). Basically, Oboro!Matoi focuses on physical defense at the expense of resistance; Hinoka!Matoi gets mixed positive defenses. Oboro!Matoi also has +2 better skill.

And I just now started to develop a headache (it has nothing to do with you), so I need to take a break from writing this to attend to it.

[Thor Odinson]

Honestly Shinonome doesn't even need a mom so he'll probably be fine if you just focus on making Ryouma good and make sure his speed doesn't suck (Which Rinka at least does that much);

There's a lot of damage boosting you can do between Lancefaire, LoD, Aggressor etc to make up for like the 2-4 points of Str cap on moms with better str caps

The guy has way too many options between what Ryouma can pass from his A+s and what he can get through his own A+/S

Although if you keep doing Rinka, you can potentially also spec him for a crit build since Rinka can pass Roundhouse from Charlotte over, and Holy Lancer is a +Crit class;

I'm not sure how much he can fit all of it in between his 5 bajillion procs but hey, if you want even more options on that fucker there's some

(hmm now that I think about it, for more of a postgame thing than ingame definitely but, what if Fighter!Femui marries, idk anyone who isn't Ryouma, really, and pass Berserker to him through A+ M!Kanna, or hell FeMui can marry him herself hmmm)

I guess Oboro lets him do the LoD+Extravagance thing so that's something to consider (and so does Mozume but Mozume gives less caps and no free Copycat with it, instead a class he already have, strictly inferior choice), but otherwise it's like, do you want to prioritize building a SUPER SHINO or do you want to give the lesser kids a chance at excelling while Shino can be really solid with a choice of most moms

Edited August 15, 2015 by Thor Odinson

[Tactless Tactician]

My thoughts on a few of your pairings.

You make good points.
With regards to Kanna, I intend on her support being either a Wyvern Lord or Berserker for +3 or +5 strength respectively. Throw on a 'faire or LoD, and Kanna should be able to deal some form of damage even without procs.

Hinoka!Matoi is more balanced with regards to both defenses, but I prefer the +2 skill that Oboro!Matoi has.

Also on a somewhat related note, I wonder whether Oboro!Matoi would look a bit like Lucina as a Great Lord (or whether a FeMU with Hair Color 17 or 27 would be more accurate)?

Honestly Shinonome doesn't even need a mom so he'll probably be fine if you just focus on making Ryouma good and make sure his speed doesn't suck (Which Rinka at least does that much);

There's a lot of damage boosting you can do between Lancefaire, LoD, Aggressor etc to make up for like the 2-4 points of Str cap on moms with better str caps

The guy has way too many options between what Ryouma can pass from his A+s and what he can get through his own A+/S

Although if you keep doing Rinka, you can potentially also spec him for a crit build since Rinka can pass Roundhouse from Charlotte over, and Holy Lancer is a +Crit class;

I'm not sure how much he can fit all of it in between his 5 bajillion procs but hey, if you want even more options on that fucker there's some

(hmm now that I think about it, for more of a postgame thing than ingame definitely but, what if Fighter!Femui marries, idk anyone who isn't Ryouma, really, and pass Berserker to him through A+ M!Kanna, or hell FeMui can marry him herself hmmm)

I guess Oboro lets him do the LoD+Extravagance thing so that's something to consider (and so does Mozume but Mozume gives less caps and no free Copycat with it, instead a class he already have, strictly inferior choice), but otherwise it's like, do you want to prioritize building a SUPER SHINO or do you want to give the lesser kids a chance at excelling while Shino can be really solid with a choice of most moms

Well, I'm more focus on mods seeing as any skill can effectively be acquired via My Castle or inheritance.

As far as mods are concerned, Ryoma has +2 skill, +1 strength/speed/luck, +0 magic, and -2 defense/resistance.

Mod-wise, Hana gives good stats in general, save for a -4 defense mod.

Oboro seems to be a good option as well, and could occur if I shift Hinoka from Silas to Subaki.

Camilla also has good mods. But pairing her with Ryoma would cause me to either pair Rinkah with Flannel or reevaluate multiple sets pairings overall.

Now that I think about it, I'm considering pairing Rinkah with Nishiki as Kinu's role will be the acquisition of Deadly Breath and Snake Touch to combo with her personal skill and Four Fangs for 65% passive damage.

The only problem is that Rinkah!Kinu's mods would be as follows:

+4 speed, +3 resistance, +2 luck, +1 strength/magic/defense, -4 skill

Well, her only bad mod is skill. Considering the setup, that shouldn't be too big of a deal since this Kinu isn't reliant on procs, and there's always Lucky 7 or Raven Strike to augment her accuracy.

So I guess Shinonome is lacking a mother...

Honestly Shinonome doesn't even need a mom

Never mind, crisis averted!

[Thor Odinson]

Never mind, crisis averted!

If only Ryouma can just reproduce by budding, Shinonome can still turn out just fine

honestly someone just hack in S rank Marx

Edited August 16, 2015 by Thor Odinson

[Carter]

Does anyone have any suggestions for these skill sets I came up with?

Hinoka!Matoi: Falcon Warrior

- Lancefaire

- Sol

- Luna

- Bowbreaker

- Hoshido

Nyx!Syalla: Sorcerer (currently Orochi, but planning for Nyx in third route)

- Tomefaire

- Vantage

- Vengeance

- Hoshido

- Bind

Are these skill sets enough to bring out Matoi and Syalla's capabilities? I like to have activated skills like Sol, Luna, and Vengeance on them to help change tides of battle. Would Hoshido be just hogging a spot for Syalla? Vengeance is skill x 1.5, but her skill is really bad naturally, so I feel like Hoshido could help out.

[AstraSage]

I'd like to inquire as to the potential of my pairings for an IK run. Please consider that I'm not adverse to purchasing skills from other My Castle skirmishes or the Logbook, so I suppose I'm primarily focusing on mods and class availability.

I've condensed them into two sets of spoilers to save space. While their respective designations are relatively self-explanatory, I'm willing to take advice on both.

Thank you!

A few corrections:

• Nyx can't get LoD from Mozume because the former would be getting Bowman from the latter via Buddy Seal: Mozume's Weapon Master is a promotion of the Villager Tree, which she can only pass it to her children.
• Kagerou and Saizou actually do get new classes from using Marriage Seals mutually: Kagerou gets Samurai while Saizou gets Spellcaster.
• It's really hard to give Kinu access to Wyvern Rider Skills without Logbook/Wyvern!Avatar/Kanna shenanigans: Orochi can't A+ Camilla, Kinu can't marry Lutz, and her chances to get Deadly Breath come from either Hinoka with an A+ towards Camilla or Oboro with Berka as her A+ Target.

[Tactless Tactician]

A few corrections:

• Nyx can't get LoD from Mozume because the former would be getting Bowman from the latter via Buddy Seal: Mozume's Weapon Master is a promotion of the Villager Tree, which she can only pass it to her children.
• Kagerou and Saizou actually do get new classes from using Marriage Seals mutually: Kagerou gets Samurai while Saizou gets Spellcaster.
• It's really hard to give Kinu access to Wyvern Rider Skills without Logbook/Wyvern!Avatar/Kanna shenanigans: Orochi can't A+ Camilla, Kinu can't marry Lutz, and her chances to get Deadly Breath come from either Hinoka with an A+ towards Camilla or Oboro with Berka as her A+ Target.

Thank you for pointing these out.

1. I seemed to have forgotten that only Mozume's kid can acquire the Villager class...

2. Really? I thought that if a unit had their spouse's primary class as their own primary or secondary, that they wouldn't get a new class from using a Marriage Seal.

3. Yeah. I must've misread the units Orochi can A-support with. I'm unsure as to how I arrived at that conclusion, honestly...

So I've adjusted my pairings thusly:

Nishiki x Orochi -> Nishiki x Rinkah - The rationale is that Kinu is going to primarily be a passive damage dealer, and can inherit Snake Venom and some decent mods from Rinkah.

Odin x Elise -> Odin x Orochi - Has a focus on skill while still retaining high magic. May need Defensive Formation or Swallow Strike to deal with that -2 speed mod though.

Takumi x Hana -> Takumi x Elise - With this pairing, Takumi can still access Samurai through A+ supports with Ryoma or Hinata. Meanwhile, Kisaragi gets +1 strength and +4 magic, allowing him to switch between a Mighty Bow and a Shining Bow at whim. While Elise does hurt Kisaragi's skill, he still has a +2 mod in that stat, and she patches up his otherwise lackluster speed.

Flannel x Camilla -> Flannel x Hana - Velour gets +5 strength, +1 magic, +0 skill, +2 speed, +0 luck, +0 defense, +1 resistance. The mods seem to complement each other perfectly, resulting a Velour with reasonably high strength, neutral skill, and a positive speed modifier. She gets inherent access to LoD and Swordfaire which can also see use as an alternative 'faire as a Hero.

Ryoma x Rinkah -> Ryoma x Camilla - Results in a Shinonome with +3 strength, +0 magic, +4 skill, +3 speed, +0 luck, +0 defense, -1 resistance. Ryoma arguably doesn't get as much out of Camilla's Wyvern Lord as he would out of Rinkah's Oni Savage, but the skills he wants can be acquired regardless.

[Thor Odinson]

2. Really? I thought that if a unit had their spouse's primary class as their own primary or secondary, that they wouldn't get a new class from using a Marriage Seal.

If two people have the same primary class, they get each other's secondary.

If one person's secondary is another's primary, then the first person would not get anything out of the marriage seal (other than being able to use it like a normal second seal) e.g. Saizou x Rinka, Rinka doesn't get a new class out of it, Saizou still does, though.

If one person has a special, non-transferrable-by-marriage (or non-transferrable period, in aqua's case) class, and their partner's primary is shared with their secondary, their partner will get a hidden tertiary class, and they would not get anything in return. In MU's case, MU can pass a faction-parallel class

If you're pairing two people with the exact same set (Saizou A+ Suzukaze), I want to say both also get their faction parallels, in their case Cavalier, but I'm not 100% sure on this one.

[Tactless Tactician]

If two people have the same primary class, they get each other's secondary.

If one person's secondary is another's primary, then the first person would not get anything out of the marriage seal (other than being able to use it like a normal second seal) e.g. Saizou x Rinka, Rinka doesn't get a new class out of it, Saizou still does, though.

If one person has a special, non-transferrable-by-marriage (or non-transferrable period, in aqua's case) class, and their partner's primary is shared with their secondary, their partner will get a hidden tertiary class, and they would not get anything in return. In MU's case, MU can pass a faction-parallel class

If you're pairing two people with the exact same set (Saizou A+ Suzukaze), I want to say both also get their faction parallels, in their case Cavalier, but I'm not 100% sure on this one.

Ah. That seems to be what I was confused about. Thanks for clearing that up.

Also, with regards to a third-gen!Kanna, a new avenue I'm considering is Setsuna!Mitama!Kanna.

Despite starting as a Priest, Asama's mods seem far more physically inclined, resulting in the following.

St/Mg/Sk/Sp/Lk/Df/Rs

Asama: +2/ -3/+0/+1/+0/+1/+0

Setsuna: +0/+0/+1/+3/-1/ -1/ -1

+1/+1/+1/+1/+1/+1/+1

Mitama: +3/ -2/+2/+5/+0/+1/+0

Ma!MU: +0/+0/+2/+4/ -1/ -3/ -1 (+Spd/-Def)

Kanna: +3/ -2/+4/+9/ -1/ -2/ -1

In contrast, Setsuna!Midoriko!Kanna with a +Spd/-Luk MaMU has the following mods:

-2/+0/+6/+11/-3/ -1/+1

Again, her ending class is likely to be Elite Ninja.

What I'm wondering is whether Midoriko!Kanna's skill and speed are borderline overkill, especially considering her lack of strength?

Mod-wise, the highest any other second-gen could achieve is a +8 speed mod (a MU with one of Zero, Kaze, Azura, or Setsuna) with any non-MU second gen having only a +7 speed mod at best.

Basically the trade-off is a difference of 5 strength in favor of Mitama!Kanna, or the additional 2 skill and speed that Midoriko!Kanna possesses.

Does anyone have any suggestions for these skill sets I came up with?

Hinoka!Matoi: Falcon Warrior

- Lancefaire

- Sol

- Luna

- Bowbreaker

- Hoshido

Nyx!Syalla: Sorcerer (currently Orochi, but planning for Nyx in third route)

- Tomefaire

- Vantage

- Vengeance

- Hoshido

- Bind

Are these skill sets enough to bring out Matoi and Syalla's capabilities? I like to have activated skills like Sol, Luna, and Vengeance on them to help change tides of battle. Would Hoshido be just hogging a spot for Syalla? Vengeance is skill x 1.5, but her skill is really bad naturally, so I feel like Hoshido could help out.

Out of curiosity, do you intend on purchasing skills via Logbook or My Castle interactions? I'm guessing so, as based on your skillsets some of them seem impossible otherwise...

Mod-wise, Hinoka!Matoi has the following spread:

St/Mg/Sk/Sp/Lk/Df/Rs

Subaki: -1/+0/+2/ -2/ -1/+3/-1

Hinoka: +1/ -1/ -1/+1/+0/-1/+2

+1/+1/+1/+1/+1/+1/+1

Matoi: +1/+0/+2/+0/+2/+3/+2

Her best points (mod-wise) are her defenses, luck, and skill. Although technically, one can consider low strength/magic mods to be a blessing in disguise on account of Matoi's personal skill.

As a Falcon Warrior with these mods, her stats will come out to:

29/27/32/34/37/30/37

Her best assets in this class are her Luck and Resistance, with Speed trailing a bit behind that.

One thing I might consider is to stack attack-boosting skills, such as Lancefaire to operate in conjunction with Matoi's Prodigy skill which increases damage by four if her attacking stat is lower than her enemy's corresponding stat. So skills such as Aggressor, Line of Death, Extravagance and the like would be recommend. Since she has decent skill but comparatively low base attack,

a proc like Breaking Sky could also be a consideration.

Alternatively, you can have her function as an anti-mage tank with Mirror Strike and Tomebreaker coupled with her high resistance.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Tactless Tactician

[Wayward Alchemist]

How high in demand is Mozume as a mother? Because I think Mozume!Matoi could be one of the best LoDE (Line of Death Extrav) abusers out there.

Mozume!Matoi@GKW (There is a method to my madness!)

+0/+1/+4/+0/+1/+4/-2

-[Prodigy]

-LoD (Subaki passes down Samurai)

-Extrav (Killager)

-Bowfaire (Inheritance from Killager)

-Aggressor

-Geelfurse

The reason for GKW over Falcon Warrior is for three reasons: Mighty Bow, Skl, and Prodigy. Prodigy activates more often than with a Falcon Warrior because both Str and Mag are lower as a GKW. However, when Prodigy DOES activate, GKW actually has a 3 Str edge over FW. GKW also has A rank Bows, giving her access to the Mighty Bow. All together, with Prodigy and Bowfaire taken into account, she is doing 44x2 (10+10+8+7+5+4) damage, AKA 88 damage. Which is over the maximum HP in this game. Regardless of enemy Speed. Without any possible risk of being counterattacked. Without even factoring in her 27 Strength. GKW is also favorable due to higher Skill, and therefore increasing the chance of having 100% chance to hit. Even against a General with capped Spd, Defense and HP, Matoi is still doing 31x4 damage against him, AKA killing him. And you don't see that many Generals in PvP considering the offensive play style.

I posted this a while back, but it got lost in discussion. Thoughts?

[Carter]

Out of curiosity, do you intend on purchasing skills via Logbook or My Castle interactions? I'm guessing so, as based on your skillsets some of them seem impossible otherwise...

Mod-wise, Hinoka!Matoi has the following spread:

St/Mg/Sk/Sp/Lk/Df/Rs

Subaki: -1/+0/+2/ -2/ -1/+3/-1

Hinoka: +1/ -1/ -1/+1/+0/-1/+2

+1/+1/+1/+1/+1/+1/+1

Matoi: +1/+0/+2/+0/+2/+3/+2

Her best points (mod-wise) are her defenses, luck, and skill. Although technically, one can consider low strength/magic mods to be a blessing in disguise on account of Matoi's personal skill.

As a Falcon Warrior with these mods, her stats will come out to:

29/27/32/34/37/30/37

Her best assets in this class are her Luck and Resistance, with Speed trailing a bit behind that.

One thing I might consider is to stack attack-boosting skills, such as Lancefaire to operate in conjunction with Matoi's Prodigy skill which increases damage by four if her attacking stat is lower than her enemy's corresponding stat. So skills such as Aggressor, Line of Death, Extravagance and the like would be recommend. Since she has decent skill but comparatively low base attack, a proc like Breaking Sky could also be a consideration.

Alternatively, you can have her function as an anti-mage tank with Mirror Strike and Tomebreaker coupled with her high resistance.

Yes, I probably should've mentioned that. I already have other files where I have A-Supports ready with Subaki and Tsukuyomi to pass down skills I had already bought from my Nohr file.

If I were to take Line of Death into Matoi's skill set, which skill should I replace it with?

What do you think about the skill set I made for my Nyx/Orochi!Syalla? I'm planning for her to be one of my main offensive units. At 20/7 Sorcerer, she has 19 defense and 27 resistance. She holds up pretty well against the Chapter 20 enemies.

[Ebony]

Oh yeah I don't think this got answered but who's a good mate for Luna if any? (Nohr mostly, though idk about the Invisible Kingdom... maybe Lazward?)

[Wayward Alchemist]

Oh yeah I don't think this got answered but who's a good mate for Luna if any? (Nohr mostly, though idk about the Invisible Kingdom... maybe Lazward?)

She really is a shit mom, but yeah, Inigo is probably the best partner for her. Also Soliel gets Ninja and Peg out of the deal, but I'm not sure how well the class skills compliment each other outside of Mage killer (High Res as Elite Ninja and Falcon, Mirror Strike, Magic Counter from A+ Mitama, Tomebreaker from Foleo marriage which makes the best sense for her character, and WTA over tomes)

[Azz]

She can actually work pretty well with Zero.Al their mods complement each other, Eponine gets crazy Spd(Being +6), Swallow Strike and Patient Assurance which is quite good for a bow user who is manly using a Shining Bow any ways.

[Wayward Alchemist]

She can actually work pretty well with Zero.Al their mods complement each other, Eponine gets crazy Spd(Being +6), Swallow Strike and Patient Assurance which is quite good for a bow user who is manly using a Shining Bow any ways.

The problem is that Eponine's Magic growth takes a serious dump (almost halving), which makes it a pain for ingame and postgame grinding.

[GoXDS]

The problem is that Eponine's Magic growth takes a serious dump (almost halving), which makes it a pain for ingame and postgame grinding.

while Physical/Magic weapon swapping is nice, it's not 100% needed. so Eponine doesn't need to go Magic. and if not, it's better to leave Mag uncapped. Mages have a harder time using Breaking Sky on you in PvP

as for Mozume, Falcon has only 1 Str more than GKW. that's barely anything worthwhile. for the most part, Prodigy is going to trigger the same amount. also, both are sub 30 Str cap. average cap Str is ~31. plus anyone going to be a dmg dealer will have +Str mods and probably a Faire themselves. so Prodigy will pretty much always activate considering Matoi has +0 and below average class cap.

saying GKW has Mighty Bow is the same as saying Falcon Warrior has Brave Lance (except Mighty Bow halves Str for next attack after use, which is a huge nerf). and in your calculations, you included +8 from Bow but that's factored into Atk - Def so shouldn't be considered. it's +31 guaranteed from LoD/EV/Agg/Prodigy (if Prodigy is dmg, not str) but Faire and Mt is still subject to Def reduction. the same exact calculation can be applied to Falcon Warriors as well (and pretty much every other class with A Rank)

GKW also is locked into 2 range most of the time and also much poorer defenses

higher Skl doesn't mean much either. 3 more skill for 4.5 more Hit. that's barely worth mentioning. 3% more activation on Luna, 1.5% on Astra, or 4.5% on Breaking Sky also don't mean much. Falcon also has 1 more Luc it's actually only +4 Hit

Falcon has 3 higher Spd and thus makes it a lot harder to double while in turn allowing the Falcon to double a lot more (ESPECIALLY with Swallow Strike)

and Generals will never be without Defense Formation. ever. and likely has Pavise. 40 cap Def before mods so 27 Str + 8 Mt + 5 Faire is 40 and thus no extra dmg. so Mighty Bow is only 31x2 before Pavise, not a KO

[Elif]

Any insight for these planned sets? I'd really appreciate it. ;w;

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=55355&p=3960925

[GoXDS]

Any insight for these planned sets? I'd really appreciate it. ;w;

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=55355&p=3960925

huh, thought I answered that but I guess I didn't (I answered the other one after yours though x_x)

Kanna's fine. maybe replace Aegis/Pavise (and Sol maybe) with Nohr and have a Guard Stance person with them? her Skl will take a hit so the 2 skills have lower Trigger so possibly Flamboyant as for the 5th slot

Shinonome, final 2 moves hard to say. Swallow Strike is good but Holy Lancer is 32 base so even with mods, enemies probably also have some mods and maybe in a higher base speed class. Axebreaker's nice since he's Lance locked. could free up space so don't need Reverse. I probably wouldn't go Renewal myself. could go Astra to add on top of Flamboyabt's effectiveness. already effective against Swords and they're mostly accurate so...maybe not Swordbreaker?

so in summer, definitely Axebreaker, 1st choice for last slot is Astra, then Swordbreaker (stack the breakers!) and then Swallow. not putting in a vote for Renewal EDIT: forgot you listed Deadly Breath. ehh, probably better people to use that. especially Deadly Breath with Snake Venom (or Deadly Breath + Snake Venom + Four Fangs?! ;D if all 3 stack. I know 2 stack)

Edited August 17, 2015 by GoXDS

[Elif]

huh, thought I answered that but I guess I didn't (I answered the other one after yours though x_x)

Kanna's fine. maybe replace Aegis/Pavise (and Sol maybe) with Nohr and have a Guard Stance person with them? her Skl will take a hit so the 2 skills have lower Trigger so possibly Flamboyant as for the 5th slot

Shinonome, final 2 moves hard to say. Swallow Strike is good but Holy Lancer is 32 base so even with mods, enemies probably also have some mods and maybe in a higher base speed class. Axebreaker's nice since he's Lance locked. could free up space so don't need Reverse. I probably wouldn't go Renewal myself. could go Astra to add on top of Flamboyabt's effectiveness. already effective against Swords and they're mostly accurate so...maybe not Swordbreaker?

so in summer, definitely Axebreaker, 1st choice for last slot is Astra, then Swordbreaker (stack the breakers!) and then Swallow. not putting in a vote for Renewal EDIT: forgot you listed Deadly Breath. ehh, probably better people to use that. especially Deadly Breath with Snake Venom (or Deadly Breath + Snake Venom + Four Fangs?! ;D if all 3 stack. I know 2 stack)

Haha it's okay!!

Thank you soo much! Yeah, adding Nohr definitely sounds better, and as a bonus, it saves up effort in trying to get all those skills through A+s and all haha. I'll see what a good support unit would be for her! I just realized I messed up with the Aegis part anyways! I'm so used to making builds for my Kanna, so I mixed up M!Kanna with F!Kanna so no marriage seal Sophie. xD

As for Shinonome, okay, that sounds good!! If anything, for the last slot, I could try Aggressor and see how that goes!

[GoXDS]

Haha it's okay!!

Thank you soo much! Yeah, adding Nohr definitely sounds better, and as a bonus, it saves up effort in trying to get all those skills through A+s and all haha. I'll see what a good support unit would be for her! I just realized I messed up with the Aegis part anyways! I'm so used to making builds for my Kanna, so I mixed up M!Kanna with F!Kanna so no marriage seal Sophie. xD

As for Shinonome, okay, that sounds good!! If anything, for the last slot, I could try Aggressor and see how that goes!

did I forget about Aggressor as well? oops. that'd be my #1 pick or #2 for 5th slot. and while Kanna needs less work getting Pavise/Aegis, her Guard Partner would need them (and maybe Sol if you want dedicated Guard)

[Elif]

did I forget about Aggressor as well? oops. that'd be my #1 pick or #2 for 5th slot. and while Kanna needs less work getting Pavise/Aegis, her Guard Partner would need them (and maybe Sol if you want dedicated Guard)

Oh no, you didn't forget Aggressor! I forgot to put it in haha, I just ended up remembering it afterwards!

Yeah, I think that won't be too difficult though! I could use Sophie as bait again, an Effie!Sophie specifically and she could easily get all of those that way iirc! (:

[astrophys]

as for Mozume, Falcon has only 1 Str more than GKW. that's barely anything worthwhile. for the most part, Prodigy is going to trigger the same amount. also, both are sub 30 Str cap. average cap Str is ~31. plus anyone going to be a dmg dealer will have +Str mods and probably a Faire themselves. so Prodigy will pretty much always activate considering Matoi has +0 and below average class cap.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, as I don't have the game yet, but wouldn't faires have no effect on Prodigy activation whatsoever? After all, unless the description on the website is incorrect, Prodigy only cares about STR or MAG as applicable and -faires now don't boost STR or MAG but instead add +5 damage.

So whether or not a character has a -faire wouldn't be a relevant consideration to whether Prodigy activates, assuming I understand correctly.

That said, yes, I agree with your basic point that most offensively orientated characters would tend to have +STR or +MAG mods, depending on what they want to use.

Matoi will trigger against MAG enemies very easily. As for STR, well, Falcon Warrior has naturally low STR (28). Now, the two mothers who give her Lancefaire, Hinoka and Oboro, both give her a +1 STR mod, so that brings her up to 29 STR…. so considering an average capped unit with neutral mods has a STR in the 30s (such as that ~31 figure cited here; I haven't checked it myself, but it sounds right), it will trigger against more physical enemies than it won't. That will give her +4 damage, which will mean her damage output will be more comparable to a 33 STR unit (plus with a Faire if she picks that up first). And, as noted, she'll trigger prodigy almost always against magic users.

So Prodigy should work against most (but not all) physical-focused enemies and basically all dedicated magic users.

And again, if we're considering mods, the enemies likely have mods too…

Considering that, she probably could even pull off the 30(class)+1(mod) = 31 Str Great Lord, as although this brings her up to the average STR and eliminates a few of the enemies that Prodigy could work on, most physically focused kids will get +STR mods, so those mods would make Matoi's bonus damage accessible again. So a Great Lord would hit like a 35 STR unit most of the time, even though it only has 31 STR in these cases.

[SapphireFalconWing]

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, as I don't have the game yet, but wouldn't faires have no effect on Prodigy activation whatsoever? After all, unless the description on the website is incorrect, Prodigy only cares about STR or MAG as applicable and -faires now don't boost STR or MAG but instead add +5 damage.

So whether or not a character has a -faire wouldn't be a relevant consideration to whether Prodigy activates, assuming I understand correctly.

That said, yes, I agree with your basic point that most offensively orientated characters would tend to have +STR or +MAG mods, depending on what they want to use.

Matoi will trigger against MAG enemies very easily. As for STR, well, Falcon Warrior has naturally low STR (28). Now, the two mothers who give her Lancefaire, Hinoka and Oboro, both give her a +1 STR mod, so that brings her up to 29 STR…. so considering an average capped unit with neutral mods has a STR in the 30s (such as that ~31 figure cited here; I haven't checked it myself, but it sounds right), it will trigger against more physical enemies than it won't. That will give her +4 damage, which will mean her damage output will be more comparable to a 33 STR unit (plus with a Faire if she picks that up first). And, as noted, she'll trigger prodigy almost always against magic users.

So Prodigy should work against most (but not all) physical-focused enemies and basically all dedicated magic users.

And again, if we're considering mods, the enemies likely have mods too…

Considering that, she probably could even pull off the 30(class)+1(mod) = 31 Str Great Lord, as although this brings her up to the average STR and eliminates a few of the enemies that Prodigy could work on, most physically focused kids will get +STR mods, so those mods would make Matoi's bonus damage accessible again. So a Great Lord would hit like a 35 STR unit most of the time, even though it only has 31 STR in these cases.

yeah faire skills don't effect prodigy.

[HeoandReo]

How high in demand is Mozume as a mother? Because I think Mozume!Matoi could be one of the best LoDE (Line of Death Extrav) abusers out there.

Mozume!Matoi@GKW (There is a method to my madness!)

+0/+1/+4/+0/+1/+4/-2

-[Prodigy]

-LoD (Subaki passes down Samurai)

-Extrav (Killager)

-Bowfaire (Inheritance from Killager)

-Aggressor

-Geelfurse

The reason for GKW over Falcon Warrior is for three reasons: Mighty Bow, Skl, and Prodigy. Prodigy activates more often than with a Falcon Warrior because both Str and Mag are lower as a GKW. However, when Prodigy DOES activate, GKW actually has a 3 Str edge over FW. GKW also has A rank Bows, giving her access to the Mighty Bow. All together, with Prodigy and Bowfaire taken into account, she is doing 44x2 (10+10+8+7+5+4) damage, AKA 88 damage. Which is over the maximum HP in this game. Regardless of enemy Speed. Without any possible risk of being counterattacked. Without even factoring in her 27 Strength. GKW is also favorable due to higher Skill, and therefore increasing the chance of having 100% chance to hit. Even against a General with capped Spd, Defense and HP, Matoi is still doing 31x4 damage against him, AKA killing him. And you don't see that many Generals in PvP considering the offensive play style.

I posted this a while back, but it got lost in discussion. Thoughts?

Matoi I think can get Line of Death by herself since she inherits Samurai, so she would only need Extravagance to fulfill the combo. But Bows seem to be the best option of dealing with Generals I would agree, since they have WTA against lances and WTN against axes, the two weapons that Generals can use.

Oboro!Matoi I think is a decent alternative, though she wouldn't get Bowfaire unless she marries Kisaragi. I'm personally doing this over Mozume!Matoi, so that I can get her natural LoD/Extravagance onto someone else. (natural LoD/Extravagance + decent mods means she's actually pretty high in demand as a mom. All Nohr kids love her barring Ophelia and maybe half the Hoshido kids do well with her too, Matoi included. Granted Oboro is high in demand too, but unlike Mozume she can't marry everybody.)

Oh yeah I don't think this got answered but who's a good mate for Luna if any? (Nohr mostly, though idk about the Invisible Kingdom... maybe Lazward?)

Lazward would be my go-to in Nohr for Pegasus/Ninja combo, but I could see her working very well with Arthur and Benoit. She beats Belka!Lutz cleanly as a Swallow Strike user, and compliments Benoit's mods while fixing his problems so that Ignis actually has a small chance to go offense. Her Hoshido spouses aren't much to write home about, though. Matoi is good for lore, to cancel out Tsubaki's -2 speed and because lower strength is advantageous for Prodigy, but Hisame doesn't get enough from Luna for it to be worth it, since he gets Swallow Strike on his own either from inheritance or A+ Shigure and his mods/growths already start out mediocre. 1 speed and 4 defense is kind of cool though - he's one of the very few Hisames who get positive speed.

Mod-wise, Luna is very much 'Rinkah but way better' due to her shared focus on speed and defense with lower penalties to offense, at the cost of having a somewhat worse skill selection. Swallow Strike is worth it on its own though. It's honestly the only thing I'd have her pass barring maybe Deadly Breath for kids who have or can get Pegasus.

She also has a solid niche set for Deere, competitive with the Hana!Deere set mentioned ages ago. Lodestar Luna!Deere has roughly the same dodging ability as Trueblade Hana!Deere, and much better defensive mods. Deere certainly doesn't mind Swallow Strike either, mostly because he has a dearth of good skills since Deere's A+s aren't exceptional and Jakob's A+s are literally the worst in the game. (2 of them give a class he already has, and Bowman isn't much to write home about on its own)

Edited August 17, 2015 by HeoandReo

[GoXDS]

oh I'm remembering back to Awakening where it was +5 Str for Faires rather than +dmg. I see they improved it (now helps with magic weapons!). and people, remember. lowering Str to get Prodigy to trigger more is fine and dandy but that's still lowering her potential dmg overall, especially against people she would've triggered against anyways

Edited August 17, 2015 by GoXDS