Unit Optimization Thread

[Aquaze]

What do you guys think is the best set of skills for an Elite Ninja Kanna?

On one of my files I married Kagerou and went for a + speed asset to pass down a ton of speed from kamui and a ton of Str from kagerou. I came up with four builds so far

this is assuming my castle abuse for every possible skill.

Poison build: Snake venom, deadly breath, Four fangs, Copycat Puppet, Filler

With this build just getting in battles means that no matter how tanky the enemy is they will almost always be brought to 1 HP after a battle. Build lacks a way to survive though.

Skill proc build: Hoshido, Flanboyant, Lethality, Sol, Breaking Sky

A cheesy build but you're pretty much GOING to proc something. every attack.

Evasive Ninja build: Axebreaker, Swordbreaker, Lancebreaker, Bowbreaker, Renewal

The only weapons you're vulnerable too are other Hidden weapons and tomes. Both of which don't do much to ninjas anyways. If you have a really dedicated healer you can also swap out renewal for flowing strike for even more avoid on player phase.

Pure damage build: Kunaifaire, Line of Death, Aggressor, Overbearing(could swap this out vs alot of mounted units), Vantage/ Ogre strike

[someone]

How about broken build:Hoshido, Flanboyant, Nohr, Vantage, Kunaifaire

Pair up with A/S rank Berserker:Lethal, Astra, Dragon Fang, Sol ,Prayer.

[Bovinian]

Skill proc build: Hoshido, Flanboyant, Lethality, Sol, Breaking Sky

A cheesy build but you're pretty much GOING to proc something. every attack.

I'd ditch Sol for Kunaifaire or something similar because depending on what weapon you're using, there's a chance you might do zero damage to a capped Def enemy (possibly in Guard Stance) with this setup as a +Spd Elite Ninja, and Lethality will have no effect in that case. Even if not quite 0 damage, the damage output will be pathetic when Breaking Sky doesn't activate, and since Sol is likely to take priority over Breaking Sky, that can be problematic and you won't be healing much.

Evasive Ninja build: Axebreaker, Swordbreaker, Lancebreaker, Bowbreaker, Renewal

The only weapons you're vulnerable too are other Hidden weapons and tomes. Both of which don't do much to ninjas anyways. If you have a really dedicated healer you can also swap out renewal for flowing strike for even more avoid on player phase.

Imo Counter + Magic Counter is more effective at protecting against swords/lances/axes than the three corresponding breakers, with the added benefit of protecting yourself against tomes and freeing up a skill slot for something else. Elite Ninja's HP cap is too low for Renewal's healing to be significant so I'd opt for stacking more avoid; Flowing Strike could be useful but I personally prefer Lucky 7.

[CinderSkye]

I was wondering what people thought about running Foleo as an Adventurer.

- Shining Bow allows him to attack at 1 or 2 range with good might, but no crit.

- Getting the class requires marrying Eponine or a Thief femAvatar, or being Nyx's kid.

- Bowfaire (requires being Mozume's kid or bowman femAvatar's kid, marrying a Bowman femAvatar or purchasing it via multiplayer) increases his mag output for healing and staff usage.

- Gives him pass so that he can be moved back and forth as needed on the battlefield.

- He's generally healing on his turn and counterattacking off of it, using Vengeance. He should generally not be exposed and abuse Foul Play primarily through being a support unit in Attack Stance with Battle Command running..

Foleo Growths:

with +Mag/-Str Avatar Mom:

HP: 48.33%

Str: 25% (-5 cap)

Mag: 56.87% (+6 cap)

Skl: 30% (-1 cap)

Spd: 43.33%

Lck: 38.33%

Def: 28.33% (-1 cap)

Res: 41.67% (+4 Cap)

The best ootential option in most cases I think, but going to have a hard time ranking Bows to C.

with Mozume Mom and Aptitude:

HP: 53.33%

Str: 36.67% (-2 Cap)

Mag: 51.67% (+2 Cap)

Skl: 45% (+1 Cap)

Spd: 55% (-1 Cap)

Lck: 48.33% (+1 Cap)

Def: 40%

Res: 53.33%

Easiest to use, most sturdy to occasionally take advantage of a counterattack. Can switch to a physical bow to attack high Res targets.

with Nyx Mom:

HP: 43.33%

Str: 15% (-2 Cap)

Mag: 56.67% (+5 Cap)

Skl: 30% (-2 Cap)

Spd: 43.33%

Lck: 30% (-1 Cap)

Def: 23.33% (-2 Cap)

Res: 43.33% (+3 Cap)

A better high end potential option than Mozume, but super frail physically. Locked to magic bows only.

[Aquaze]

How about broken build:Hoshido, Flanboyant, Nohr, Vantage, Kunaifaire

Pair up with A/S rank Berserker:Lethal, Astra, Dragon Fang, Sol ,Prayer.

Holy crap I forgot about the Nohr skill. This build sounds insane. I forget but can you proc other skills the same attack you proc vantage?

I'd ditch Sol for Kunaifaire or something similar because depending on what weapon you're using, there's a chance you might do zero damage to a capped Def enemy (possibly in Guard Stance) with this setup as a +Spd Elite Ninja, and Lethality will have no effect in that case. Even if not quite 0 damage, the damage output will be pathetic when Breaking Sky doesn't activate, and since Sol is likely to take priority over Breaking Sky, that can be problematic and you won't be healing much.

Imo Counter + Magic Counter is more effective at protecting against swords/lances/axes than the three corresponding breakers, with the added benefit of protecting yourself against tomes and freeing up a skill slot for something else. Elite Ninja's HP cap is too low for Renewal's healing to be significant so I'd opt for stacking more avoid; Flowing Strike could be useful but I personally prefer Lucky 7.

I forgot about Lucky 7 too. I think that would be a good idea to look into since I want to have some avoid too. I'm just worried that a Ninja Kanna would be too frail to take a hit, so she'd either need to kill someone first before being hit, or have a ton of avoid so she can't get hit.

[Leif]

I have a quick question about Zero A+'ing Odin. Would Zero get Odin's Samurai class tree since he already has the Dark Mage line?

[LiquidDefiance]

I have a quick question about Zero A+'ing Odin. Would Zero get Odin's Samurai class tree since he already has the Dark Mage line?

I think Zero would get nothing out of it. You only get access to your buddy's secondary class if both units share the same base class, iirc.

Edited July 21, 2015 by LiquidDefiance

[Xeniferos]

I think Zero would get nothing out of it. You only get access to your buddy's secondary class if both units share the same base class, iirc.

IIRC, this only applies to marriage seals. I don't think you can pass on anything other than base classes with buddy seals.

EDIT: I'm probably wrong.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Xeniferos

[HeoandReo]

I'm debating whether or not if it is a good idea to bother optimizing for Dragon's Vein, mostly because I'm redoing some of my pairings and Dragon's Vein is one of the sticking points. At the moment I'm thinking not, since there are like 10 first gens and up to 11 children who can get it, so I'm not sure if losing one would be a big deal.

Specifically I'm debating Orochi!Ophelia + Elise!Soleil vs. Elise!Ophelia + Orochi!Soleil. So far I'm collecting pros and cons for both.

Orochi!Ophelia/Elise!Soleil (original)

*Ophelia has 4 skl, -2 spe mods, A+ with Midoriko

*Soleil gets Dragon's Vein. Her magic growth is also functional regardless of who her mother is. (Growth of 21)

*Ophelia's mother is a great pairup partner (Exorcist gives +4 mag/spe, Orochi gives 2 mag, 1 skl/res)

+Ophelia has a marginally better ability to critical(2%) and better Breaking Sky proc rate. (about 9% if both are Witches paired up with their mothers)

+Lazward has slightly better class synergy to pull a support set with Azure Dance

-Worse doubling threshold for Ophelia (Witch + Exorcist Orochi can double from 31-36)

Elise!Ophelia/Orochi!Soleil (proposed)

*Ophelia has 0 skl, 1 spe mods, A+ with Shara

*Ophelia gets Dragon's Vein (I like Ophelia more as a unit so I will probably use her more)

*Ophelia's mother is a great pairup partner assuming she gets an A+ with Sakura for Exorcist. (this lets her match Orochi for the most part)

+Ophelia gets much better growths (Elise's growths are amaaazing)

+Better doubling threshold for Ophelia (As a Witch paired with Maid Elise, she can double from 33-38. 34-39 if Elise goes Exorcist.)

Basically it's a debate between doubling ability compared to skill activation. Having written it down, it is probably better to go for Elise!Ophelia for more reliable offense, but I'd like to hear some input from others to see if there's merit to this.

Edited July 21, 2015 by HeoandReo

[someone]

^

If you use DLC(Witch) then just pair Odin with Orochi.

Ophelia can reach 100% crit rate with Rounhouse and Awakening skill(DLC).

Skill set:Vantage, Roundhouse, Awakening(DLC), Lucky Seven, Skill Drain(DLC)

Equip Mjolnir on her,she can 1HKO every enemies that don't have Dragonskin skill.

[someone]

Holy crap I forgot about the Nohr skill. This build sounds insane. I forget but can you proc other skills the same attack you proc vantage

Yes, you can.I use this skill set on pretty much every children characters.

[Morgan]

If I pair Belka and Arthur does Lutz inherit Cavalier?

Belka's base class is Wyvern Rider while her secondary class is Fighter. Arthur starts as Fighter with his secondary being Cavalier.

Lutz starts as Wyvern Rider and always has Fighter from his dad. But in this case does he get Cavalier or does Arthur's inheritance come before Belka thus Lutz get a completely different class? Has this been tested?

[Bovinian]

If I pair Belka and Arthur does Lutz inherit Cavalier?

Belka's base class is Wyvern Rider while her secondary class is Fighter. Arthur starts as Fighter with his secondary being Cavalier.

Lutz starts as Wyvern Rider and always has Fighter from his dad. But in this case does he get Cavalier or does Arthur's inheritance come before Belka thus Lutz get a completely different class? Has this been tested?

We don't know yet; this is one of the last mysteries that has been proposed a few times but has not been answered yet. Lutz inheriting Cavalier would be a reasonable guess, but that would mean inheriting two classes from Arthur and none from Belka so it might not be the case. I'm hoping that pairing makes Lutz end up getting an entirely new class out of nowhere, preferably a Hoshidan class like how Nyx!Eponine gets Spellcaster.

The class inheritance rules seem really arbitrary and all over the place, but I'm sure there is some programming-based logic behind it and I would really like to figure out the complete picture...

Edited July 22, 2015 by Bovinian

[Morgan]

Would love if he got the Hoshido variant like Peg Warrior. Nyx is a dark Mage and passed Spellcaster which is essentially hoshido's Mage/counterpart in a way

[Leif]

So how does this sound for a Hoshido MU that is dead set on using the Dragonstone? This is for a friend. He plans on a tanky play style, as Hoshido lacks bulky classes for the most part.

MU (+Mag/HP -Spd)@White Blood

-Defensive Formation (From Knight secondary, essential since Dragonstone can't double)

-Renewal (HP restoration because no Sol access in Hoshido)

-Diamond Strike/Counter/Magic Counter

-Mirror Strike/Counter/Magic Counter

-Vantage/Counter/Magic Counter

Not really sure what to do.

Honestly, I don't think tanking units will be viable in PvP due to the existence of the "Misfortune and Sin", or "All the World's evils" baton (whatever its ridiculous name is). Despite having a low hit rate, it can be quite deadly when used with Copycat Units + Elite Ninjas. Generals have 70 max HP which is cut down to 35 hp if the baton hits. Should that not workout you can have an Elite Ninja swoop in with a good Kunai and whittle down a general to low HP and poor stats with just one round of combat with the skill combo of Snake Venom + Deadly Breath + Four Fangs + Dragonic Curse. I predict PvP is going to have tons of staves and kunai users.

[Tactless Tactician]

Out of curiosity, are unit-locked weapons usable by their child as well?

Also, does the boost from Extravagance last for the entire map, or for only one turn?

And do debuffs from multiple skills and hidden weapons stack?

Edited July 22, 2015 by Tactless Tactician

[HeoandReo]

Honestly, I don't think tanking units will be viable in PvP due to the existence of the "Misfortune and Sin", or "All the World's evils" baton (whatever its ridiculous name is). Despite having a low hit rate, it can be quite deadly when used with Copycat Units + Elite Ninjas. Generals have 70 max HP which is cut down to 35 hp if the baton hits. Should that not workout you can have an Elite Ninja swoop in with a good Kunai and whittle down a general to low HP and poor stats with just one round of combat with the skill combo of Snake Venom + Deadly Breath + Four Fangs + Dragonic Curse. I predict PvP is going to have tons of staves and kunai users.

The more I think about it, the more I think that Maids and Butlers, of all units, are going to be somewhat dominant. They can use all staves, as well as most shurikens that are worth using. Elite Ninjas have a better speed cap and access to the powerful Oboro shuriken and the Mighty Kunai, but Maids/Butlers have better defensive caps and still have really good speed.

Silver Shurikens/Kunais and Kaze's Gale-Dart have good debuffs for Maids/Butlers to take advantage of. Brigand Kunai, Prayer Candle and Hunting Knife also look worth considering, based on their effects. (Though I'm no sure if stripping an enemy gives any status debuffs to them)

Edited July 22, 2015 by HeoandReo

[Minischew]

Honestly, I don't think tanking units will be viable in PvP due to the existence of the "Misfortune and Sin", or "All the World's evils" baton (whatever its ridiculous name is). Despite having a low hit rate, it can be quite deadly when used with Copycat Units + Elite Ninjas. Generals have 70 max HP which is cut down to 35 hp if the baton hits. Should that not workout you can have an Elite Ninja swoop in with a good Kunai and whittle down a general to low HP and poor stats with just one round of combat with the skill combo of Snake Venom + Deadly Breath + Four Fangs + Dragonic Curse. I predict PvP is going to have tons of staves and kunai users.

Is the "Misfortune and Sin" baton common, though? I read the description, and I assumed it would be really limited in number. And unlike weapons, batons don't have infinite durability, so...

[Leif]

Is the "Misfortune and Sin" baton common, though? I read the description, and I assumed it would be really limited in number. And unlike weapons, batons don't have infinite durability, so...

I believe there are three you get from the Hoshidian Vendor (one from Level 2 and two from level 3 vendor). Throw them on Copycat puppet units and you get six. They have three uses so that's a total of eighteen times you can use the staff. =/

So if you have only one Copycat Staff user holding one Misfortune and Sin Baton on PvP, you can have six chances to knock an enemy's HP to half.

Edited July 22, 2015 by Leif

[Minischew]

I believe there are three you get from the Hoshidian Vendor (one from Level 2 and two from level 3 vendor). Throw them on Copycat puppet units and you get six. They have three uses so that's a total of eighteen times you can use the staff. =/

So if you have only one Copycat Staff user holding one Misfortune and Sin Baton on PvP, you can have six chances to knock an enemy's HP to half.

Damn. Are items that you use during Streetpass battles replenished (as they were in Awakening)? B/c that really would result in CCP + M&S Baton abuse, lmao. I hope that doesn't become the next "put Lethality on every single unit" trend.

Edited July 22, 2015 by Minischew

[Wayward Alchemist]

So is PVP confirmed or is it just Awakening style AI you are battling?

[Leif]

So is PVP confirmed or is it just Awakening style AI you are battling?

There is a multiplayer feature. You can connect to the Internet and fight other teams like in Shadow Dragon.

[zoned out]

I believe there are three you get from the Hoshidian Vendor (one from Level 2 and two from level 3 vendor). Throw them on Copycat puppet units and you get six. They have three uses so that's a total of eighteen times you can use the staff. =/

So if you have only one Copycat Staff user holding one Misfortune and Sin Baton on PvP, you can have six chances to knock an enemy's HP to half.

I think items are shared so if you only had one misfortune and sin staff you and the copy would have a shared 3 uses. Looks like the only counter for that would be to use the wind summon staff to silent them.

Edited July 23, 2015 by zoned out

[Carter]

If I pair Belka and Arthur does Lutz inherit Cavalier?

I currently have Arthur x Belka up to S-Support, but I just haven't gotten around to actually completing Lutz's paralogue...

I'd love to get back to you on that tomorrow, though! It would be sweet if Lutz could get a Hoshido class! And it's also been killing me because I've been wanting to test some color schemes with his other classes lol.

[Psyruby]

Weird note about Rinkah. Even tho her magic growth is pretty blerg, if you can get her Magic to 25 as a Ninja, she would have all the skills and stats to become an amazing Magic Ninja naturally. Kunaifaire, Personal Skill raise even magic damage, Snake Venom makes them lose health after you attack, Resistance Seal debuffs their Res for a long time, Explosive Shuriken would make her speed go to 38 which means she doubles 33's naturally and debuffs Res another 4, and Copycat would allow her clone to take advantage of their lowered Res and activate snake venom again. Her caps even compliment this by not touching magic, making speed reach that magic number, her lowered skill wouldn't matter as much, and her defense is much appreciated.