Unit Optimization Thread

[Morgan]

I currently have Arthur x Belka up to S-Support, but I just haven't gotten around to actually completing Lutz's paralogue...

I'd love to get back to you on that tomorrow, though! It would be sweet if Lutz could get a Hoshido class! And it's also been killing me because I've been wanting to test some color schemes with his other classes lol.

That'd be great! Thank you so much! Yeah I'm crio us to know too if this will be one of those special pairings

[astrophys]

What do you think the best class for Hinoka!Matoi would be, assuming Hoshido route (its also doable in Invisible, obviously, but I'm trying to plan for the route I'll probably do first).

Matoi's Absolute Personal Growth Rates:

55% HP, 35% Str, 15% Mag, 40% Skl, 40% Spd, 45% Lck, 35% Def, 20% Res

Matoi's Parent-Modified Growth Rates, assuming it works like in Awakening:

51.66% HP, 36.66% Str, 16.66% Mag, 43.33% Skl, 35% Spd, 36.66% Lck, 38.33% Def, 21.66% Res

Unless one can show me wrong, I'll assume that the latter, parent modified growths apply to this discussion:

Hinoka!Matoi's maximum stat mods (apply equally to all classes):

+1 Str, +0 Mag, +2 Skl, +0 Spd, +0 Lck, +3 Def, +2 Res

Hinoka!Matoi's classes:

Pegasus Warrior [recruited as this class; can start between level 10 and level 20, not promoted, depending on time of recruitment]:

51.66% HP, 46.66% Str, 16.66% Mag, 53.33% Skl, 50% Spd, 56.66% Lck, 38.33% Def, 41.66% Res

35 HP, 20 Str, 16 Mag, 23 Skl, 23 Spd, 25 Lck, 21 Def, 27 Res

B rank lances

Swallow Strike, Eastern Heart (these two skills will always be known by Matoi, as she starts with them)

Falcon Warrior:

51.66% HP, 46.66% Str, 26.66% Mag, 53.33% Skl, 50% Spd, 56.66% Lck, 38.33% Def, 41.66% Res

55 HP, 29 Str, 27 Mag, 32 Skl, 24 Spd, 35 Lck, 30 Def, 37 Res

A rank lances, B rank staves

Rally Speed, Mirror Strike

Golden Kite Warrior:

51.66% HP, 41.66% Str, 16.66% Mag, 58.33% Skl, 50% Spd, 51.66% Lck, 38.33% Def, 36.66% Res

50 HP, 28 Str, 26 Mag, 35 Skl, 31 Spd, 34 Lck, 28 Def, 33 Res

A rank bows, B rank lances

Soar, Sun God

Samurai:

61.66% HP, 46.66% Str, 16.66% Mag, 58.33% Skl, 55% Spd, 51.66% Lck, 38.33% Def, 31.66% Res

40 HP, 21 Str, 16 Mag, 25 Skl, 25 Spd, 24 Lck, 21 Def, 22 Res

B rank swords

Flowing Strike, Vantage

Trueblade:

61.66% HP, 46.66% Str, 21.66% Mag, 58.33% Skl, 55% Spd, 51.66% Lck, 38.33% Def, 31.66% Res

55 HP, 31 Str, 28 Mag, 34 Skl, 35 Spd, 33 Lck, 30 Def, 33 Res

S rank Swords

+10 Crit, +10 Avoid

Astra, Swordfaire

Weapons Master:

71.66% HP, 51.66% Str, 16.66% Mag, 53.33% Skl, 45% Spd, 46.66% Lck, 48.33% Def, 21.66% Res

65 HP, 34 Str, 26 Mag, 32 Skl, 30 Spd, 31 Lck, 34 Def, 30 Res

A rank swords, B rank lances, B rank axes

Strength Seal, Line of Death

Lance Fighter

66.66% HP, 51.66% Str, 16.66% Mag, 58.33% Skl, 50% Spd, 41.66% Lck, 48.33% Def, 26.66% Res

40 HP, 23 Str, 15 Mag, 25 Skl, 22 Spd, 21 Lck, 25 Def, 23 Res

B rank lances

Defense Seal, Substitute

Holy Lancer

66.66% HP, 51.66% Str, 16.66% Mag, 58.33% Skl, 50% Spd, 41.66% Lck, 48.33% Def, 26.66% Res

60 HP, 35 Str, 25 Mag, 35 Skl, 32 Spd, 29 Lck, 33 Def, 31 Res

S rank lances

+10 Crit, +10 Crit Evade

Speed Seal, Lancefaire

Basara

71.66% HP, 46.66% Str, 26.66% Mag, 53.33% Skl, 45% Spd, 51.66% Lck, 43.33% Def, 31.66% Res

65 HP, 32 Str, 30 Mag, 32 Skl, 31 Spd, 35 Lck, 33 Def, 34 Res

A rank lances, B rank tomes

Breaking Sky, Flamboyant

That covers all of her classes that she gets from her own + her inheritance from her parents…

What do people think? What would be best for 20/20 main-game? What would be best for grinded and Eternal Sealed gameplay?

She does also have options like Cavalier/Paladin/Great Knight thanks to A+ with Sophie:

Cavalier:

61.66% HP, 51.66% Str, 16.66% Mag, 53.33% Skl, 45% Spd, 51.66% Lck, 48.33% Def, 26.66% Res

40 HP, 23 Str, 15 Mag, 23 Skl, 20 Spd, 24 Lck, 25 Def, 23 Res,

B rank swords & lances

Open Assault, Rescue

Paladin:

61.66% HP, 51.66% Str, 16.66% Mag, 53.33% Skl, 45% Spd, 51.66% Lck, 48.33% Def, 31.66% Res

60 HP, 32 Str, 26 Mag, 32 Skl, 30 Spd, 32 Lck, 35 Def, 34 Res,

A rank swords & lances

Defender, Aegis

Great Knight:

71.66% HP, 56.66% Str, 16.66% Mag, 53.33% Skl, 40% Spd, 41.66% Lck, 58.33% Def, 21.66% Res

65 HP, 36 Str, 25 Mag, 31 Skl, 27 Spd, 28 Lck, 40 Def, 30 Res,

A rank lances, B rank swords & axes

Luna, Diamond Strike

I was considering using a Dark Mage Avatar as her husband (mainly because I like Magic and Swords). If I did this, Matoi would get:

Dark Mage:

51.66% HP, 41.66% Str, 36.66% Mag, 43.33% Skl, 45% Spd, 36.66% Lck, 41.33% Def, 31.66% Res

35 HP, 20 Str, 24 Mag, 18 Skl, 19 Spd, 18 Lck, 22 Def, 24 Res

B rank tomes

Bind, Devilish Wind

Sorcerer:

51.66% HP, 36.66% Str, 41.66% Mag, 43.33% Skl, 45% Spd, 36.66% Lck, 41.33% Def, 36.66% Res

50 HP, 26 Str, 35 Mag, 28 Skl, 29 Spd, 26 Lck, 32 Def, 35 Res,

S rank tomes

Hit +5, Crt +10, CEv +5

Vengeance, Bowbreaker

Dark Knight:

66.66% HP, 56.66% Str, 26.66% Mag, 48.33% Skl, 40% Spd, 41.66% Lck, 51.33% Def, 26.66% Res

55 HP, 33 Str, 31 Mag, 30 Skl, 27 Spd, 31 Lck, 37 Def, 32 Res

A rank tomes, B rank swords

Magic Seal, Lifetaker

Any thoughts as to what the best class choice would be? Class path? etc.? For PvE (i.e., in-game battles, DLC battles, battles against AIs)? For PvP?

Edited July 23, 2015 by astrophys

[Carter]

That'd be great! Thank you so much! Yeah I'm crio us to know too if this will be one of those special pairings

I finally completed Lutz's paralogue, and it felt pretty great! I can finally forgive myself for delaying so much!

Anyways, I checked his reclass options. He inherits Fighter from Arthur, and... Pegasus Warrior (from Belka?)! Wow! I was so surprised, but yeah, he can reclass into a Pegasus Warrior!

I promoted him into a Wyvern Lord, and checked again: Hero, Berserker, Revenant Knight, Falcon Warrior, and Golden-Kite Warrior. So yeah, I have absolutely no idea why he gets Pegasus Warrior of all things, but now we know!

[astrophys]

I see… so that's another way to get Pegasus Warrior in Nohr….

We get one from Luna (via her secondary). We get one from Luna's kid if she marries Lazward (as their common Mercenary class shared with Soleil's Mercenary class will force Luna to pass down Pegasus Warrior) And now we can get another from Belka!Lutz….

And that's before the Avatar….

[Bovinian]

I finally completed Lutz's paralogue, and it felt pretty great! I can finally forgive myself for delaying so much!

Anyways, I checked his reclass options. He inherits Fighter from Arthur, and... Pegasus Warrior (from Belka?)! Wow! I was so surprised, but yeah, he can reclass into a Pegasus Warrior!

I promoted him into a Wyvern Lord, and checked again: Hero, Berserker, Revenant Knight, Falcon Warrior, and Golden-Kite Warrior. So yeah, I have absolutely no idea why he gets Pegasus Warrior of all things, but now we know!

Thanks for the information! Looks like we were right to expect that he would inherit something completely different from what his parents would normally pass down.

As for why Pegasus Warrior, I have a theory that every mother has data for a hidden third class, reserved for getting passed down whenever an overlapping situation such as Zero x Nyx and Arthur x Belka happens, but in practice such a situation only arises in these two particular cases. Somehow I doubt that IS actually went through all possible pairings to manually figure out which mothers needed backup classes.

Alternatively, the classes themselves might be mapped to certain backups, like Dark Mage is mapped to Spellcaster, Wyvern Rider is mapped to Pegasus Warrior, etc.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Bovinian

[HeoandReo]

I finally completed Lutz's paralogue, and it felt pretty great! I can finally forgive myself for delaying so much!

Anyways, I checked his reclass options. He inherits Fighter from Arthur, and... Pegasus Warrior (from Belka?)! Wow! I was so surprised, but yeah, he can reclass into a Pegasus Warrior!

I promoted him into a Wyvern Lord, and checked again: Hero, Berserker, Revenant Knight, Falcon Warrior, and Golden-Kite Warrior. So yeah, I have absolutely no idea why he gets Pegasus Warrior of all things, but now we know!

That is actually... very good for Lutz. Modifiers are decent (1 str/mag, 6 skill, 4 def, -1 spe/res) and access to Sun God pairs nicely with Lucky Soul. Both Golden-Kite and Wyvern Lord yield 39 skill, meaning 58% Breaking Sky and 19% Lethality. Swallow Strike can sorta fix the speed for player phase, while he can also A+ with Ignis for Defensive Formation if he wants to. This can also give him a good case to marry Shara in Invisible Kingdom for Breaking Sky/Flamboyant access, which can potentially free up Belka to pass Lancefaire from A+ Oboro.

[Azz]

Anyways I am looking for some help.

I plan on marrying my Kamui to Azura and was wondering what would be the best secondary class to choose to give Aqua good options?She will be getting Great Lord, Dread Fighter, Dark Falcon and Witch access(And potentially Grandmaster, Vanguard and Dark Princess access if what people are saying is true).She will be a Songstress as her final class but I just want to get her some good skills from Kamui.I was thinking Lancer for Lancefaire and Flamboyant or Samurai/Cavalier for Astra/Luna.She will more then likely A+ Elise(I feel Rod Knight skills are better then Priestess skills though this could change).Any advice?

[HeoandReo]

Anyways I am looking for some help.

I plan on marrying my Kamui to Azura and was wondering what would be the best secondary class to choose to give Aqua good options?She will be getting Great Lord, Dread Fighter, Dark Falcon and Witch access(And potentially Grandmaster, Vanguard and Dark Princess access if what people are saying is true).She will be a Songstress as her final class but I just want to get her some good skills from Kamui.I was thinking Lancer for Lancefaire and Flamboyant or Samurai/Cavalier for Astra/Luna.She will more then likely A+ Elise(I feel Rod Knight skills are better then Priestess skills though this could change).Any advice?

Aqua will also get Breaking Sky from Lance Fighter. And a bunch of seals for debuffing, giving her further utility if you decide to make her attack things.

Shigure also gets access to these same skills, which he can't otherwise unless he marries certain children, or in the case of Lancefaire and the seals, skills he can't get at all without being sired by Avatar/My Castle/Logbook. Lance Fighter is probably the most useful Hoshidan class imo for Avatar to take, barring some particular builds.

[Azz]

Aqua will also get Breaking Sky from Lance Fighter. And a bunch of seals for debuffing, giving her further utility if you decide to make her attack things.

Shigure also gets access to these same skills, which he can't otherwise unless he marries certain children, or in the case of Lancefaire and the seals, skills he can't get at all without being sired by Avatar/My Castle/Logbook. Lance Fighter is probably the most useful Hoshidan class imo for Avatar to take, barring some particular builds.

Okay thanks.

[Carter]

I see so that's another way to get Pegasus Warrior in Nohr.

We get one from Luna (via her secondary). We get one from Luna's kid if she marries Lazward (as their common Mercenary class shared with Soleil's Mercenary class will force Luna to pass down Pegasus Warrior) And now we can get another from Belka!Lutz.

And that's before the Avatar.

Don't forget Shigure! Oh, and Azura! And Kanna (after picking Pegasus Warrior)! And Midoriko if you marry Kaze marries Azura!

Thanks for the information! Looks like we were right to expect that he would inherit something completely different from what his parents would normally pass down.

As for why Pegasus Warrior, I have a theory that every mother has data for a hidden third class, reserved for getting passed down whenever an overlapping situation such as Zero x Nyx and Arthur x Belka happens, but in practice such a situation only arises in these two particular cases. Somehow I doubt that IS actually went through all possible pairings to manually figure out which mothers needed backup classes.

Alternatively, the classes themselves might be mapped to certain backups, like Dark Mage is mapped to Spellcaster, Wyvern Rider is mapped to Pegasus Warrior, etc.

Is there any way for Syalla to get Dark Mage in Hoshido? I'm wanting to reclass her to that in the third route, but I also want to in as a Hoshido exclusive.

Do we even know anything about "overlapping classes" in that path, or if they are present at all? My Hoshido copy shouldn't be arriving until Monday.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Carter

[Bovinian]

Don't forget Shigure! Oh, and Azura!

Is there any way for Syalla to get Dark Mage in the Hoshido path? I'm wanting to reclass her to that in the third route, but I also want to in Hoshido.

Do we know anything about "overlapping classes" in that path? My Hoshido copy shouldn't be arriving until Monday.

I don't think there are any other examples of overlapping classes, at least not any that I can think of. Zero x Nyx seems to be the only possible pairing where both parents have the exact same two classes. Lutz's situation is only possible for children who start in a class that their fixed parent doesn't have access to, and for the mother's base class to be the child's starting class. Shinonome and Midoriko seem to be the only other children who fit this category, but no gen 1 girl naturally has the combination Lance Fighter + Samurai or Herb Merchant + Ninja.

Shigure randomly gets Rod Knight for a completely different reason, as Azura is the only parent whose base class can't be passed down (I think Mozume's Villager can). Matoi can get Rod Knight from her as well because her Pegasus overlaps with the Pegasus that Azura passes down, and I think that's the only other case of overlapping classes.

I can think of exactly one way Syalla can get access to Dark Mage in Hoshido. That would involve choosing a female Kamui with Dark Mage as her secondary, and have male Kanna (who inherits Kamui's Dark Mage) Marriage Seal with Syalla, since I don't think Dark Prince can be accessed that way. Female Kanna might be able to A+ with Syalla as well, I'm not sure about that though

Edited July 24, 2015 by Bovinian

[Aidil]

Thoughts on Lodestar Marx? Siegfried works well for him as a Lodestar. His Str/Skill/Speed/Defense caps at 32/35/35/33, compared to Paladin caps of 34/30/32/34. Resistance stays low, but his growth for that is super low anyway(for me at lv 30 he only has 13 res, ouch), so have to commit a skill slot for Tomebreaker. His defense drops only by 1 so he should still be able to tank well, and he can easily snowball with Speed Drain.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Aidil

[astrophys]

Well, the issue with committing to breakers is that while they help you avoid damage, they aren't all that reliable for doing so unless you already have really good evasion….

As in, it will still hurt like crazy when he gets hit by magic….

Granted, Tomebreaker will save you a number of times, but relying on it could be risky….

[HeoandReo]

Xander is not too bad of a Lodestar candidate. The high luck mod and its 10 avoid bonus gives him dodging capabilities similar to Trueblades. Mods are 31/25/34/32/42/31(35)/27, giving him 79 avo counting the class bonus. There are a few skills he can pick up which could help. Lucky 7 is a flat +20 but requires him to marry an Outlaw Avatar. Soar can also be obtained by marrying Hinoka and Azura. With those two together, he can potentially pick up +50 depending on the enemy type.

Tome users carrying Raven Strike are really going to hurt, though.

[astrophys]

If I am assuming (roughly) 20/20 by endgame and am trying to play somewhat efficiently [no/minimal grind, but doing paralogues that unlock] when I get the game in 2016, what do you think the best class paths (and thus skills to pick up) for these Matoi variants would be:

Hinoka!Matoi (Hoshido or Invisble) [Pegasus Warrior/Samurai/Lance Fighter]

AND

Luna!Matoi (Invisible only) [Pegasus Warrior/Samurai/Mercenary]

Possible Buddies: Sophie (Cavalier) [Hoshido/Invisible], Mitama (Priestess) [Hoshido/Invisible], Syalla (Spellcaster) [Hoshido/Invisible], Eponine (Outlaw) [invisible only]

She'll likely be marrying a +MAG Avatar (because I like the notion of running a hybrid Avatar and I just really like magic in these games, and its trait descriptor for +MAG, intelligent, is probably one of the ones most accurate to me anyways). I'm contemplating Dark Knight for the Avatar's personal use (Swords and Tomes), although his may be more flexible in Invisible Kindgom because he also can get Swords/Tomes from Dark Blood then. -DEF is a possible flaw for Dark Knight (it has 15% DEF growth and high bases that might offset this somewhat)… not sure what flaw I'd take as a Dark Blood… but anyways, I could possibly take a different class as my secondary considering the availability of Dark Blood in invisible…

A consideration with little to no grinding is that there would only be finite chapters to build support ranks, and I'd first need to get her parents married, then I'd need some more chapters to marry her to the Avatar or to buddy her up with one of the 3-4 buddy options.

What do you think her efficient class paths would be to be as powerful as she can be while doing something that's reasonably feasible in game, no/little grind?

Another issue is that with Child Seals, if her recruitment is delayed too late she won't have many levels left to get high level skills outside of those inherited or Child Sealed into, nor levels to exploit growths in alternate class options as desired…. so there is also the balance of getting her early and getting to get skills as wanted (and the ability to be RNG blessed or screwed with levels), as well as more time to get supports, vs. getting her later and getting tons of free levels on her from the Child Seal without having to give her actual EXP that could have gone to other units.

Any thoughts on the matter?

Thanks.

[HeoandReo]

If I am assuming (roughly) 20/20 by endgame and am trying to play somewhat efficiently [no/minimal grind, but doing paralogues that unlock] when I get the game in 2016, what do you think the best class paths (and thus skills to pick up) for these Matoi variants would be:

Hinoka!Matoi (Hoshido or Invisble) [Pegasus Warrior/Samurai/Lance Fighter]

AND

Luna!Matoi (Invisible only) [Pegasus Warrior/Samurai/Mercenary]

Possible Buddies: Sophie (Cavalier) [Hoshido/Invisible], Mitama (Priestess) [Hoshido/Invisible], Syalla (Spellcaster) [Hoshido/Invisible], Eponine (Outlaw) [invisible only]

She'll likely be marrying a +MAG Avatar (because I like the notion of running a hybrid Avatar and I just really like magic in these games, and its trait descriptor for +MAG, intelligent, is probably one of the ones most accurate to me anyways). I'm contemplating Dark Knight for the Avatar's personal use (Swords and Tomes), although his may be more flexible in Invisible Kindgom because he also can get Swords/Tomes from Dark Blood then. -DEF is a possible flaw for Dark Knight (it has 15% DEF growth and high bases that might offset this somewhat)… not sure what flaw I'd take as a Dark Blood… but anyways, I could possibly take a different class as my secondary considering the availability of Dark Blood in invisible…

A consideration with little to no grinding is that there would only be finite chapters to build support ranks, and I'd first need to get her parents married, then I'd need some more chapters to marry her to the Avatar or to buddy her up with one of the 3-4 buddy options.

What do you think her efficient class paths would be to be as powerful as she can be while doing something that's reasonably feasible in game, no/little grind?

Another issue is that with Child Seals, if her recruitment is delayed too late she won't have many levels left to get high level skills outside of those inherited or Child Sealed into, nor levels to exploit growths in alternate class options as desired…. so there is also the balance of getting her early and getting to get skills as wanted (and the ability to be RNG blessed or screwed with levels), as well as more time to get supports, vs. getting her later and getting tons of free levels on her from the Child Seal without having to give her actual EXP that could have gone to other units.

Any thoughts on the matter?

Thanks.

Looking at Invisible Kingdom recruitment, Tsukuyomi -> Shara seems like the quickest one to start with to get the kid to have an A+ with Matoi, since all of the other fathers for her other options (Silas, Asama and Zero) all come pretty late. If you have him marry Sakura Shara will turn out pretty nice statwise. Breaking Sky is a really nice and reliable proc, and make up for what Luna!Matoi will be missing otherwise. (which is a reliable proc) Grinding for it won't be too much of a hassle either, since it uses Matoi's previous lance rank and can allow her to build up a tome rank if she desires, since she'll be getting Dark Mage from the marriage.

Luna can build up an A+ with Camilla to pick up Wyvern - Level 20/5 in Revenant Knight will pick up Deadly Breath, which is useful. Tsubaki can also pick up Snake Venom in relatively little time from Saizou. I'm not sure if Snake Venom/Deadly Breath stack, but those are both good skills for Matoi to potentially take advantage of if you're not grinding. Luna comes at Level 10, so you could just use a Master Seal and a Buddy Seal after she gets an A+ with Camilla to get Deadly Breath fast.

Tsubaki can also potentially pass Lethality(20/5 Ninja) from A+ Saizou, which synergizes well with Flamboyant in addition to stuff like Astra from Samurai and Sol from Merc. Copycat is way too far off if you're playing efficiently, since I'm assuming that Matoi will be picked up around midgame (Chapters 16-19) given recruitment times.

You might follow a path like this:

*Luna passes Deadly Breath (A+ Camilla), Tsubaki can pass Snake Venom/Lethality if he wants (A+ Saizou)

*Matoi gets an A+ with Sakura!Shara. Sakura can pass Swallow Strike from a reclass to Pegasus, Tsukuyomi doesn't care since his A+s are so far away.

Matoi goes Pegasus -> Falcoknight -> Basara (pick up Breaking Sky and maybe Flamboyant) -> Exorcist/Samurai (for a relevant faire) -> End as Dark Flier/Dark Knight. Getting magic might be a little tough, but if she needs to, she could pick up a few levels as a Sorcerer, since it has a natural 25% magic growth before any unit growths are added.

Edited July 25, 2015 by HeoandReo

[astrophys]

Well, Luna!Matoi would have a 13.33% personal magic growth if it works like Awakening, so even Sorc is only getting her up to 38.33% Mag…. her magic is probably a lost cause…..

Hinoka!Matoi is marginally better off, at 16.66% magic, but 41.66% Sorc growths is still pretty bad.

There is stil merit in going to Dark Knight because it has a +20% STR growth rate (as well as +15% HP/DEF), if you can spend some levels in it, although Matoi would only have a 35% personal growth in SPD, so the 15% growths of other classes might be helpful for mitigating that….

[Azz]

So I was wondering, what Deere is better:

Felicia!Deere or Azura!Deere?

I have been trying to figure this out since I want to know who to pair Jakob up with for Touma.

[astrophys]

Rod Knight/Cavalier/Mercenary and Rod Knight/Cavalier/Pegasus Knight…. that's what his class set would be, right?

I'd say Azura…. also, less mod class between stats….

You could get something like Mirror Strike/Tomebreaker from Azura!Deere, for being a anti-mage (regardless of class). You also have Rescue for a Rescuing Pegasus Knight...

[WinterMudkip]

Hey everyone.

Just wondering about your thoughts on an avoidance based Kinu build I'm planning on running once I get my Japanese 3DS.

Aqua!Kinu (for max speed without hurting luck)

Speed : 6, luck : 2

Class: Nine-tailed Fox with Beaststone+ (20 avoid from class/weapon)

Speed: class (34) + Beaststone+ (6) + Unit stats (6) = 46

Luck: class (33 + Unit stats (2) = 35

Which should give a base avoidance of 86.5 (Not including the 20 avoid from weapon/class)

Now adding on skills/other modifiers

(Underdog, Lucky7, Nohr, Hoshido, Puppet/Awakening) 35 overall from skills (65 if half health and I decide to use awakening)

Total avoidance: 141.5

I plan on pairing her up with my unit who will be going a Speed/Luck modifier as Elite ninja, (for the +1 movement speed) or Trueblade (Max avoid)

In the case of Elite Ninja I'll be adding on another 4 (class) + 2 (S rank support) speed and 1 luck (S rank support)

thus adding another 9.5 avoid.

Total avoidance 152.

If possible I want to use the rainbow elixer while moving forward with her, but haven't found any information how to get it. So might just suffice for Speed/Luck tonics for an extra 5 avoid.

Not that it matters but my units skills will be:

[Lethality, Breaking Sky, Pavise, Miracle, Guard Stance+)

Point being, does a 152 avoidance user who can't be affected by breakers seem worth it to you or should I just drop the idea and swap over to the health % build everyone seems to be running on Kinu?

I don't own the game so I can't tell what the average hit rates are online but from what I've seen in videos and my other unit calculations it seems to be around 180?

So 30% hit chance (Maybe lower if True Hit still exists).

Sorry for the long post.

Thanks. :)

Edit: forgot that pair up with S rank my unit also gives a +5 avoid rate, so it's 157 Avoid total +5 with tonics.

Edited July 25, 2015 by WinterMudkip

[Minischew]

So I was wondering, what Deere is better:

Felicia!Deere or Azura!Deere?

I have been trying to figure this out since I want to know who to pair Jakob up with for Touma.

I think Azura has the upper hand. If you compare the mods:

Azura!Deere: 3/-1/4/4/0/-2/0

Felicia!Deere: 1/1/3/2/0/0/1

Unlike Felicia, Azura does give some negative mods, but can you really say no to +4 Skl and +4 Spd? I also don't think her negative Mag mod is going to hurt that much if you keep Deere as a Butler, since Butler has a fairly high Mag cap of 31. The S-rank in staves should also make up for the slight loss.

Azura also gives Deere better growths, although you could technically argue that Azura has really good growths in general and that this doesn't really mean much. But for comparison's sake:

Azura!Deere: 40/42/23/40/42/38/23/32

Felicia!Deere: 45/28/27/30/35/43/23/32

Felicia has higher HP, Mag, and Lck, but Azura gives a huge advantage for Str, Skl, and Spd. Deere actually has pretty bad Skl/Spd growths on his own (20/30), so Azura's boost is much appreciated. And Skl/Spd are the highest caps on Butler, so higher growths in that area is especially nice (especially given the +4 Skl/Spd mods).

If you're aiming to use Deere in My Castle battles, I think Azura helps him utilize his personal skill:

Butler's Feat: When fighting in My Castle, Hit Rate and Avoid +20, damage +2 and damage received -2.

Hit Rate and Avoid are dependent on Skl and Spd (respectively). Not to mention that Azura gives access to the Pegasus Warrior tree, so if you wanted to try capitalizing on these strengths, you could pick up Soar. Although I'm not sure how good that would be, since Deere isn't an archer or a magic user, so aiming for flying enemies might not be the most helpful thing to do. If you want, you could Buddy Seal Deere to Kisaragi for Raven Strike, which would increase his Hit Rate. With Deere's relatively high Str, he could do chip damage while debuffing enemies (since he's using Hidden Weapons).

TL;DR: My vote goes to Azura.

Edited July 25, 2015 by Minischew

[Azz]

Thanks.But what about Shigure?Like what would he inherit if I went Jakob!Shigure?I mean he already has Rod Knight from Azura naturally.

[Minischew]

Thanks.But what about Shigure?Like what would he inherit if I went Jakob!Shigure?I mean he already has Rod Knight from Azura naturally.

I actually got confused on this myself, but iirc, Shigure should receive the Hoshido counterpart of Rod Knight. I don't think it's been confirmed, but the counterpart has been theorized to be Priest.

Edited July 25, 2015 by Minischew

[Azz]

I actually got confused on this myself, but iirc, Shigure should receive the Hoshido counterpart of Rod Knight. I don't think it's been confirmed, but the counterpart has been theorized to be Priest.

I see.Well thanks.(I just hope I can get a Shining Bow for Mido now since her Str is fucked since gotta marry Kaze to Felicia)

[capmalachi]

I actually got confused on this myself, but iirc, Shigure should receive the Hoshido counterpart of Rod Knight. I don't think it's been confirmed, but the counterpart has been theorized to be Priest.

Wouldn't he just inherit cavalier from Jakob instead? So, peg warrior and rod knight from Azura, and cavalier from Jakob since he already has rod knight.