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Unit Optimization Thread

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Hmmm.

Ultimately, Nyx is better but Orochi can work.If you are marry MU give MU Samurai or Knight

I was leaning towards Nyx for magic and speed, but I was wondering if the -3 skill would hurt her alot? Orochi gives her a neutral speed mod and fixes the skill somewhat.

And I'm not too worried about classes, dark mage from Ophelia/Nyx and Knight from me should be fine.

Edited by EmperorArvis

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I was leaning towards Nyx for magic and speed, but I was wondering if the -3 skill would hurt her alot? Orochi gives her a neutral speed mod and fixes the skill somewhat.

Well Tsukuyomi already gives a minus 1 like you said.Really, Orochi can most definitely work as Witch is already fast and you can get Dark Mage stuff from Ophelia via A+.Really it is up to you.I personally am going Nyx!Shara but yeah.

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One question is what you're concerned about…. if concerned about in-game, growths would matter more than caps:

Assuming growth rates inherit like Awakening, a kid would inherit 1/3 of their growths from their mother (1/3 mother's growths + 1/3 father's growths + 1/3 personal growths).

Or in other words, each 15 point difference in growth rates on the mothers changes the child's growth rates by 5%, assuming this works like Awakening:

Orochi: 35% HP, 5% Str, 65% Mag, 50% Skl, 15% Spd, 35% Lck, 25% Def, 45% Res

Nyx: 30% HP, 5% Str, 50% Mag, 35% Skl, 50% Spd, 20% Lck, 15% Def, 30% Res

Orochi's Kid will have:

1.667% higher HP growth

Equal Str growth

5% higher Ma growth

5% higher Skl growth

11.667% LOWER Spd growth

5% higher luck growth

3.333% higher defense growth

5% higher resistance growth

Note that over 29 levels (10/0 -> promotion -> 20/20, seeing that the lowest level children can come in at is 10/0), a 5% growth difference leads to an average difference of 1.45 stat points in that stat in terms of what is gained by leveling.

Thus, by 20/20, we could expect Orochi's lower SPD growths to cost Shara 3.38333 Spd in lost speed level ups due to growth rate differences relative to Nyx's growths.

But Orochi has largely higher stats across the board elsewhere. Its up to you to decide whether this is worth the loss of this much speed.

Edited by astrophys

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Aside from Ophelia, Matoi is another very good A+ option for Shara, particularly if you end up giving Orochi to her. Swallow Strike can be used to fill the speed gap and give Shara better doubling ability. If Matoi doesn't have Breaking Sky access, it's an A+ that's mutually beneficial.

I do agree that Nyx is a bit better overall from the two in a vacuum, though. +5 magic/speed is seriously no joke - only Nyx!Eponine is really comparable on that front.

Edited by HeoandReo

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Even if she did have Breaking Sky access, there could still be merit to Matoi + Shara A+ rank if she wanted to for some reason use Dark Falcon in the postgame….

example: Hinoka!Matoi gets Breaking Sky/Lance faire…. her magic growth isn't that good; even with Dark Falcon, that's a 16.666% Mag + 15% = 31.666% magic growth. Considering that Dark Falcon has 7 base magic and Matoi has 3 base magic, this means she'll have at least 10 magic starting out as a Dark Falcon, so it would take 70 levels to cap out her magic.

Obviously, this is not remotely practical for the main game…. but its entirely possible within Eternal seal leveling…. and you could further accelerate it with Spirit Dust if you wanted to… very heavy favoritism [3 Spirit Dusts] would let her cap Dark Falcon magic within 50 levels.

Again, not practical for the main game, but she can definitely reach the caps allowed in Eternal Seal + grinding gameplay.

So A+ with Shara would then let her get Tomefaire… so such a Matoi would have access to both Lancefaire and Tomefaire and would have a class (actually, two, given Basara) that could use both.

Edited by astrophys

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so for a while now Ive been considering of making sophie the ultimate debuffing unit.of course an MU sophie would be off the charts with draconic curse so for non MU options I had to consider that she must either inherit elite ninja or wyvern rider.

so far marrying grey or lutz would be her best options as well here and camilla seems to give the best mods. her other options for this combo are only kagerou and belka. kagerou might work but those -1 spd/skl mods arent too good here and while belka does have nice skill her speed leaves sophie with a -1 mod then again kunais give +2 but she probably can still be doubled regardless

str+3

skl+4

spd+2

luck-2

def+2

res is 0

skills for now

snake venom

kunaifaire

luna

deadly breath

copycat(probably going to come from Cryus A+ with kaze)

unless there is better skills to pass

but yeah I think Sophie is capable of really mass destruction maybe Ill do one later for a build which involves speed seal

Edited by ShotaLordNoctis

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Well Nishiki is more magically inclined so I would recommend either another magical class or a class that can give him a good proc like Astra or Luna.If you plan on keeping him as a Fox Spirit then go for the latter.

Much like Nishiki, Anna is magically inclined which is why she gets Shining Bow priority but I always recommend keeping Anna an Adventurer so I recommend making Kamui's secondary Bowman for Bowfaire.As for asset/flaw I don't really know.

Nishiki is actually more physical. He does have high res, but his base magic growth is 10%, which is better than others but not great. His modifiers also lean towards physical or mixed offense, and his main niche as a result is a mage-killer.

He starts with Spellcaster, so in any case he's mostly covered for magic and already has a great proc in Breaking Sky. A few options come to mind for additional classes, though. Pegasus helps him capitalize on his speed with Swallow Strike. Knight/Cavalier gives him an additional proc in Luna and a few other utility skills such as Diamond Strike to help his lower defense.

For Kanna mothered by Anna, she would want either a +Speed or +Magic asset. Anna actually has a negative modifier in speed, so an asset to patch it up would be appreciated. -Luck would be my recommendation for a flaw, since it doesn't reduce skill nor does it reduce defenses, and Anna's mods have enough Luck to take the hit.

wao, you two helped a lot! I was considering Cavalier for Luna, but I was like "he already has breaking sky and others, is Luna the real deal?" It's nice to know that Bowman is a good 2nd class, since I was honestly lost at that one. Wouldn't Anna like a proc though? It is true that most spouses would be paired up, but still. iirc Bowman doesn't have a proc, but since Anna already has good skills in all of her lines she might not need one that much, or am I lost?

latereplyamgsorry

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Well, if Anna uses the Shining Bow (which her magic would make her suited to), then procs don't matter, as one of the drawbacks of magic versions of traditionally physical weapon types (like magic bows, swords, axes, etc.) is that they cannot critical or trigger proc skills.

But they are 1-2 range, can double, don't have difficulty doubling, don't give you crit evade penalties, and don't lower your stats after each use cumulatively. Just -20 avoid and cannot crit or trigger procs.

So if she is a Shining Bow user, procs are worthless to Anna.

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Would a 24 skill cap as a Witch give her a disadvantage? I wanted Shara to be able to activate skills and have a decent hit rate. Or would Flamboyant fix that?

Nyx could pass down Raven Strike from A+ Mozume, (or Shara could marry Kisaragi) but the low skill mostly comes from the class itself having a low cap.

so for a while now Ive been considering of making sophie the ultimate debuffing unit.of course an MU sophie would be off the charts with draconic curse so for non MU options I had to consider that she must either inherit elite ninja or wyvern rider.

so far marrying grey or lutz would be her best options as well here and camilla seems to give the best mods. her other options for this combo are only kagerou and belka. kagerou might work but those -1 spd/skl mods arent too good here and while belka does have nice skill her speed leaves sophie with a -1 mod then again kunais give +2 but she probably can still be doubled regardless

str+3

skl+4

spd+2

luck-2

def+2

res is 0

skills for now

snake venom

kunaifaire

luna

deadly breath

copycat(probably going to come from Cryus A+ with kaze)

unless there is better skills to pass

but yeah I think Sophie is capable of really mass destruction maybe Ill do one later for a build which involves speed seal

If you want to have a good debuffing Sophie, consider giving her Oboro. Lance Fighter gives a bunch of useful seals, along with Breaking Sky/Flamboyant and Lancefaire, if she wants to continue in Cavalier. Oboro can also A+ with Belka in Invisible Kingdom, so Deadly Breath is a possible inheritance from Wyvern. Her mods are actually fairly equal to Camilla's, so you wouldn't be missing too much statwise.

Sophie should marry Gurei to get Ninja, or failing that, Deere/Foleo to get Maid so that she gets a class to actually use Kunaifaire in. If you want to abuse Lethality + Flamboyant, definitely have her marry Gurei, since Elite Ninja has the high skill cap to take full advantage of it.

Edited by HeoandReo

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If you want to have a good debuffing Sophie, consider giving her Oboro. Lance Fighter gives a bunch of useful seals, along with Breaking Sky/Flamboyant and Lancefaire, if she wants to continue in Cavalier. Oboro can also A+ with Belka in Invisible Kingdom, so Deadly Breath is a possible inheritance from Wyvern. Her mods are actually fairly equal to Camilla's, so you wouldn't be missing too much statwise.

Sophie should marry Gurei to get Ninja, or failing that, Deere/Foleo to get Maid so that she gets a class to actually use Kunaifaire in. If you want to abuse Lethality + Flamboyant, definitely have her marry Gurei, since Elite Ninja has the high skill cap to take full advantage of it.

oh I didnt know oboro had that option thanks so much I might just scractch kunai faire in that case. and the plan was for her to marry gurei in any case. thank you!

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Nyx could pass down Raven Strike from A+ Mozume, (or Shara could marry Kisaragi) but the low skill mostly comes from the class itself having a low cap.

If you want to have a good debuffing Sophie, consider giving her Oboro. Lance Fighter gives a bunch of useful seals, along with Breaking Sky/Flamboyant and Lancefaire, if she wants to continue in Cavalier. Oboro can also A+ with Belka in Invisible Kingdom, so Deadly Breath is a possible inheritance from Wyvern. Her mods are actually fairly equal to Camilla's, so you wouldn't be missing too much statwise.

Sophie should marry Gurei to get Ninja, or failing that, Deere/Foleo to get Maid so that she gets a class to actually use Kunaifaire in. If you want to abuse Lethality + Flamboyant, definitely have her marry Gurei, since Elite Ninja has the high skill cap to take full advantage of it.

Nitpicking here, but the Skill stat is almost irrelevant for the Lethality build when Flamboyant (and/or Hoshido, if available) is doing all of the heavy lifting. A unit with 35 Skill will have an identical Lethality proc rate as a unit with 32 Skill. And even with 36 Skill, it's a measly 1% difference.

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For preventing lots of damage on the player phase, Cavalier + Pegasus Warrior class combinations could be quite interesting.

Cavalier --> Great Knight: Diamond Strike, -10 physical damage when this unit triggers the battle

Pegasus Warrior --> Falcon Warrior: Mirror Strike, - 20 magical damage when this unit triggers the battle.

Such Cavalier x Pegasus combination include (not a full list), whether from marriage, buddies, inheritance, etc., and ignoring skill buying:

Hinoka x Cyrus/Silas; Hinoka!Sophie

Sakura x Cyrus/Silas

Ryouma + Cyrus/Silas buddy

Shigure x Sophie

Any Matoi + Sophie buddy

e.g.

Hinoka!Matoi, capped, Great Knight (obtained from Sophie):

40 DEF (37+3), 30 RES (28+2)

Diamond Strike and Mirror Strike ---> 40 DEF + 10 physical damage reduction; 30 RES + 20 magical damage reduction --> -50 damage taken from both types in total.

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Would a "Rate my pairings" (from an optimization standpoint ofc) post be appropriate in this thread, or is there a better place to discuss that?

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Would a "Rate my pairings" (from an optimization standpoint ofc) post be appropriate in this thread, or is there a better place to discuss that?

Yes I believe it would be appropriate.

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Would a "Rate my pairings" (from an optimization standpoint ofc) post be appropriate in this thread, or is there a better place to discuss that?

If you'll do that, I"ll do it too. I already posted my Hoshido pairings but no answer, I'd be curious what others think.

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Here's what I got so far (Invisible Route), along with a brief explanation for each:

MKamui x Sakura

I understand that making such a pairing will make one of the children unobtainable, and I’ve accepted that. Kamui will have Hoshido, Nohr, Flamboyant, Swordfaire, Filler while Sakura will have battle skills such as Astra, Lethality, Luna, etc. Secondary class for Kamui will likely be Lance Fighter so Sakura can get Breaking Sky, which I have yet to see on a Sakura through castle visits (and there’s a LOT of them).

Odin x Orochi

Ophelia will take a hit with her speed cap/growth, but she gets good magic and I plan on making a critical-centered build with Excalibur or Mjolnir anyway

Flannel x Belka

Mainly looking to make an HP debuff Velour with Four Fangs and Deadly Breath, and hopefully find a way to get Snake Poison through castle visits.

Ryoma x Camilla

Camilla has decent enough modifiers, and the idea was to get Shinonome access to Swordbuster so he can serve as a good check to Marx/Ryoma on PvP.

Zero x Luna

No particular build in mind. Gives decent stats and class options to Eponine but otherwise I’m not really sure how Zero should be paired.

Joker x Aqua

I plan on making Deere a Butler to serve as both a staff user and competent fighting unit in My Castle battles. Aqua’s high speed modifier complements Joker’s strength which will come in handy for combat. Was also looking to A+ Joker with Suzukaze for Kunaifaire as well. I haven’t given Shigure much consideration.

Suzukaze x Elise

There’s still a question mark next to this one on my pairing document. Midoriko will be built around taking advantage of Luck% skills, and I’ve already gotten each one I need through castle visits so I won’t be stressing over inherited classes.

Tsukuyomi x Nyx

In the future I hope to make Sharla a witch, but for now she’ll simply have to make due with a standard Sorcerer build. Only thing that slightly worries me is the -2 Skl modifier she gets from this pairing, giving her a 25 cap in the Witch class…

Asama x Rinka

Admittedly this pairing is more for Asama than it is Mitama; her dad’s Mag modifier and growths ruin her chances of being a decent magic/staff user relative to the other options. Meanwhile Asama can get Counter from Rinka’s classes, allowing him access to three counter skills. It’s an amusing niche, to say the least.

Saizou x Setsuna

No particular build in mind. Setsuna’s +3 speed counteracts Saizou’s -2 I guess? Grey might become good if and when they release Proximity Shot.

Takumi x Kazahana

Very similar reasoning to Saizou’s pairing. In other words I’m not terribly invested in these particular characters so therefore I’m not really sure what to do with them.

Nishiki x Kagerou

Kind of a similar deal as with the Flannel pairing I have above; Kinu gets some Hp debuffing skills and she’ll appreciate Kagerou’s +3 Str.

Cyrus x Oboro

Gives Sophie access to Speed Seal to go along with her personal skill, and I can get her Deadly Breath as well for some extra punishment.

Leon x Felicia

Unlike Deere, Foleo will likely just be using Staves and Magic. One of my leftover pairings.

Harold x Mozume

If I understand Mozume’s class inheritance correctly, her children should have access to Weapon Master and Great Merchant. If this is correct, Lux can be a Berserker with Line of Death, Extravagance, along with Aggressor + whatever other offense skills I can find visiting castles. My Kanna from a previous playthrough had Mozume as a mother and had access to the two mentioned classes, but I’d really appreciate some confirmation otherwise.

Lazwald x Charlotte

Mainly want to give Solei Berserker through this arrangement. Thankfully the modifiers are pretty decent as well.

Benoit x Pieri

A leftover pairing, open to suggestions.

Marx x Effie

A mostly leftover pairing, I like the Str gains Siegbert gains from it, and Defensive Formation helps out Marx if he’s not going to go Trueblade.

Tsubaki x Hinoka

Produces a good Matoi, with the added bonus of spreading the Lance Fighter class line around some more. Otherwise I had nothing specific in mind with this one.

Hinata x whoever at IS decided that Yuugiri should only support Kamui

=(

I wasn't too concerned about inherited skills as this will be a grinding playthrough and I can purchase most of what I'll miss at other castles. Skills do play a part in a few of them mainly for the less common ones to make life a little easier for me; stats and class access are more important. All these factors to consider almost makes me miss Awakening, where the only thing that truly mattered was getting Galeforce to as many kids as possible lol

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Just a note with your pairings.Joker cannot A+ Suzukaze.Joker can only A+ Takumi, Silas and Gunter.However Deer can A+ Gurei so that fixes your problem.

Other the that your pairings are pretty well done.Really yo are not missing out on much with Hinata so yeah.

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Here's what I got so far (Invisible Route), along with a brief explanation for each:

MKamui x Sakura

I understand that making such a pairing will make one of the children unobtainable, and Ive accepted that. Kamui will have Hoshido, Nohr, Flamboyant, Swordfaire, Filler while Sakura will have battle skills such as Astra, Lethality, Luna, etc. Secondary class for Kamui will likely be Lance Fighter so Sakura can get Breaking Sky, which I have yet to see on a Sakura through castle visits (and theres a LOT of them).

Odin x Orochi

Ophelia will take a hit with her speed cap/growth, but she gets good magic and I plan on making a critical-centered build with Excalibur or Mjolnir anyway

Flannel x Belka

Mainly looking to make an HP debuff Velour with Four Fangs and Deadly Breath, and hopefully find a way to get Snake Poison through castle visits.

Ryoma x Camilla

Camilla has decent enough modifiers, and the idea was to get Shinonome access to Swordbuster so he can serve as a good check to Marx/Ryoma on PvP.

Zero x Luna

No particular build in mind. Gives decent stats and class options to Eponine but otherwise Im not really sure how Zero should be paired.

Joker x Aqua

I plan on making Deere a Butler to serve as both a staff user and competent fighting unit in My Castle battles. Aquas high speed modifier complements Jokers strength which will come in handy for combat. Was also looking to A+ Joker with Suzukaze for Kunaifaire as well. I havent given Shigure much consideration.

Suzukaze x Elise

Theres still a question mark next to this one on my pairing document. Midoriko will be built around taking advantage of Luck% skills, and Ive already gotten each one I need through castle visits so I wont be stressing over inherited classes.

Tsukuyomi x Nyx

In the future I hope to make Sharla a witch, but for now shell simply have to make due with a standard Sorcerer build. Only thing that slightly worries me is the -2 Skl modifier she gets from this pairing, giving her a 25 cap in the Witch class

Asama x Rinka

Admittedly this pairing is more for Asama than it is Mitama; her dads Mag modifier and growths ruin her chances of being a decent magic/staff user relative to the other options. Meanwhile Asama can get Counter from Rinkas classes, allowing him access to three counter skills. Its an amusing niche, to say the least.

Saizou x Setsuna

No particular build in mind. Setsunas +3 speed counteracts Saizous -2 I guess? Grey might become good if and when they release Proximity Shot.

Takumi x Kazahana

Very similar reasoning to Saizous pairing. In other words Im not terribly invested in these particular characters so therefore Im not really sure what to do with them.

Nishiki x Kagerou

Kind of a similar deal as with the Flannel pairing I have above; Kinu gets some Hp debuffing skills and shell appreciate Kagerous +3 Str.

Cyrus x Oboro

Gives Sophie access to Speed Seal to go along with her personal skill, and I can get her Deadly Breath as well for some extra punishment.

Leon x Felicia

Unlike Deere, Foleo will likely just be using Staves and Magic. One of my leftover pairings.

Harold x Mozume

If I understand Mozumes class inheritance correctly, her children should have access to Weapon Master and Great Merchant. If this is correct, Lux can be a Berserker with Line of Death, Extravagance, along with Aggressor + whatever other offense skills I can find visiting castles. My Kanna from a previous playthrough had Mozume as a mother and had access to the two mentioned classes, but Id really appreciate some confirmation otherwise.

Lazwald x Charlotte

Mainly want to give Solei Berserker through this arrangement. Thankfully the modifiers are pretty decent as well.

Benoit x Pieri

A leftover pairing, open to suggestions.

Marx x Effie

A mostly leftover pairing, I like the Str gains Siegbert gains from it, and Defensive Formation helps out Marx if hes not going to go Trueblade.

Tsubaki x Hinoka

Produces a good Matoi, with the added bonus of spreading the Lance Fighter class line around some more. Otherwise I had nothing specific in mind with this one.

Hinata x whoever at IS decided that Yuugiri should only support Kamui

=(

I wasn't too concerned about inherited skills as this will be a grinding playthrough and I can purchase most of what I'll miss at other castles. Skills do play a part in a few of them mainly for the less common ones to make life a little easier for me; stats and class access are more important. All these factors to consider almost makes me miss Awakening, where the only thing that truly mattered was getting Galeforce to as many kids as possible lol

@Xander x Effie if you don't mind a sucky Seigbert, try Xander x Felicia, it gives him access to Tomebreaker which Xander wants. Also give Xander Speed Drain to patch up his Speed problem.

What about this Ryoma:

[email protected]

-Swordfaire (Obligatory because Str+9 with Raijin Katana)

-Astra (Just couples well with him)

-Deadly Breath (S support Camilla or Belka, activates his personal skill)

-Line of Death/Death Match (I think that's what it roughly translates to) because Trueblades are natural dodgetanks.

-Copycat Puppet (If he can A+ Saizou or Kaze)

Edited by JothTheConqueror

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I feel Rinkah is one of the best users of Awakening, works with its personal skill(free +4) and patches up his -2 skill capped as Shura cause that sweet +30 hit,avoid,crit.

Maybe something like:

Shura

Ogre Strike

Awakening

Line Of Death/Extravagance

Vengeance

Roundhouse(?)(Awakening should patch the -10 hit)

It should have 60% crit just from skills, maybe she would be better as a berserker cause a higher skill cap which means more crit and better speed, tough no tomes.

Its meant to be player phase used obviously.

Any ideas on this?

Edited by Roxachronc

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@Xander x Effie if you don't mind a sucky Seigbert, try Xander x Felicia, it gives him access to Tomebreaker which Xander wants. Also give Xander Speed Drain to patch up his Speed problem.

What about this Ryoma:

[email protected]

-Swordfaire (Obligatory because Str+9 with Raijin Katana)

-Astra (Just couples well with him)

-Deadly Breath (S support Camilla or Belka, activates his personal skill)

-Line of Death/Death Match (I think that's what it roughly translates to) because Trueblades are natural dodgetanks.

-Copycat Puppet (If he can A+ Saizou or Kaze)

Nice Ryouma, and I do believe he can A+ Saizou or Kaze, so you can have Copycat Puppet if you wanted.

Also any good ideas for who to A+ to Takumi? I'm tempted to do Joker/Jakob just for the butler Takumi but if I remember right, ti won't really give him anything.

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Nice Ryouma, and I do believe he can A+ Saizou or Kaze, so you can have Copycat Puppet if you wanted.

Also any good ideas for who to A+ to Takumi? I'm tempted to do Joker/Jakob just for the butler Takumi but if I remember right, ti won't really give him anything.

Well he can A+ Ryouma or Hinata if you want to get stuff like Astra which is not too bad and Line of Death s good considering Takumi one shots like everything with his Wind God Yumi.Joker is meh.Really Rod Knight gets him nothing of worth so yeah.Then there is Leon with whom you can get Vengeance and stuff.Personally I think Ryouma or Hinata would be best.

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Nice Ryouma, and I do believe he can A+ Saizou or Kaze, so you can have Copycat Puppet if you wanted.

Also any good ideas for who to A+ to Takumi? I'm tempted to do Joker/Jakob just for the butler Takumi but if I remember right, ti won't really give him anything.

I mean, if you really want to, you can let Takumi pick up Tomebreaker from Butler because his RES aren't all that great and Battle Formation from Strategist can work well since Takumi will be doing a lot of supporting anyway due to his Personal Skill.

Personally tho I'd say Hinata or Ryouma for Samurai would be better for Takumi just to get him Flowing Strike and Astra and maybe Strength Seal... And Vantage if you're planning on getting Takumi Proximity Shot whenever that comes out (Takumi Emblem anyone?). Also customized Trueblade costume for Takumi because why not.

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