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Unit Optimization Thread


Morgan
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You can simply attack their def then. And basara itself is a hybrid which makes that easier. On my MU it's because it's just a great skill and hoshido plus flambouyant are making the proc rate way higher

Obviously you can choose to attack their def. But for a lot of physical units (not all), their Def is higher than their Res, so if you're doing less damage before the proc is taken into account, the end result might not be that amazing.

I still think it's a good skill, but I have the feeling that it may be underwhelming in some cases (whereas something like Luna, though it has a slightly lower proc rate, is pretty consistent about adding good damage). If I'm wrong, that's cool too.

EDIT: Actually you know what. The Res caps are actually really high in this game. Maybe physical attacks + Breaking Sky will be the best choice against a lot of enemies after all.

Edited by Bovinian
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Obviously you can choose to attack their def. But for a lot of physical units (not all), their Def is higher than their Res, so if you're doing less damage before the proc is taken into account, the end result might not be that amazing.

I still think it's a good skill, but I have the feeling that it may be underwhelming in some cases (whereas something like Luna, though it has a slightly lower proc rate, is pretty consistent about adding good damage). If I'm wrong, that's cool too.

EDIT: Actually you know what. The Res caps are actually really high in this game. Maybe physical attacks + Breaking Sky will be the best choice against a lot of enemies after all.

if you have both you rule xD. That's what I'm trying to do with azura. Hey what do you think is betzer for MU nohr or counter? The rest is breaking sky flambouyant hoshido and lethality. I think counter just to be safe. Caude the only real benefit I'd get at least from azura would be luna. Of course if I'd pair him up with for example my siegbert I'd get aegis sol and luna
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I'm planning to marry Silas and was considering going +Speed -Luck like in my main Awakening file, but I'm not sure. I know I'm going to do my final class as either White Blood or Dark Blood (White Blood for better outfit and healing, or dark blood for better speed caps) I'm leaning more towards Dark Blood but still not quite sure which benefits the team most yet. Also this is considering third path so

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I'm planning to marry Silas and was considering going +Speed -Luck like in my main Awakening file, but I'm not sure. I know I'm going to do my final class as either White Blood or Dark Blood (White Blood for better outfit and healing, or dark blood for better speed caps) I'm leaning more towards Dark Blood but still not quite sure which benefits the team most yet. Also this is considering third path so

I can only speak for me and I'll choose +skl -lck because it's gonna be a skill build. Also i need to go White blood for better skl caps and that staff usage is important( ne frezze more). But if you're gonna go with speed I would highlight the asset. So I think Dark Blood is the better choice for you

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if you have both you rule xD. That's what I'm trying to do with azura. Hey what do you think is betzer for MU nohr or counter? The rest is breaking sky flambouyant hoshido and lethality. I think counter just to be safe. Caude the only real benefit I'd get at least from azura would be luna. Of course if I'd pair him up with for example my siegbert I'd get aegis sol and luna

If you want my honest opinion, Counter is a broken as fuck skill that should be banned in any pvp format where the units on both sides have comparable stats. It was broken in Awakening and is arguably worse here, partly because of the incredibly low HP caps, and partly because ranged weapons have been nerfed so a lot of units will need to rely on melee weapons for good offense. Not to mention that if you are controlling your units, you can force battles at 1-range so all non-bow-using enemies will be forced to take full Counter damage.

So yeah Counter is an amazing skill. A bit too amazing.

Edited by Bovinian
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I kinda inherited that. Everybody in my family plans months before it actually happens. Well our plans in here are mostly 3rd path. But for Leon... PvP or just for fun pairings?

Honestly it doesn't matter. I'd like to see PvP though, just out of curiosity.

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If I reclass a level 20 promoted unit, will it get all the new skills or I'll have to use an Eternal Seal?

I believe you'd have to Eternal Seal it

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I am not sure if this had been answered yet, but with the case you explained with Tsubaki x Hinoka, if the player used a marriage seal, would the units be able to access the spouse's secondary class?

Edited by siuya.
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I find that Ophelia can be an incredibly powerful unit.

I don't know who can marry who, but if Odin can marry Rinkah, then Ophelia will have access to the Samurai class tree (from Odin) and the Shura class tree. I think Vantage and Line of Death are incredible for Ophelia as well as Ogre Strike and Counter.

[spoiler=amiibo Class Spoiler?]I heard that female units can get the Great Lord class. If that's the case, then Ophelia can get the Awakening skill from it. Under half HP, Ophelia is incredible and gets a huge critical hit boost and will be able to become a killing machine. So Awakening + Ogre Strike + Vantage + her personal skill = death.

Look at those critical bonuses.

I plan on making the ultimate Ophelia for my PvP team. I do love my male mages, but Ophelia will always outshine Odin. :/

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I find that Ophelia can be an incredibly powerful unit.

I don't know who can marry who, but if Odin can marry Rinkah, then Ophelia will have access to the Samurai class tree (from Odin) and the Shura class tree. I think Vantage and Line of Death are incredible for Ophelia as well as Ogre Strike and Counter.

[spoiler=amiibo Class Spoiler?]I heard that female units can get the Great Lord class. If that's the case, then Ophelia can get the Awakening skill from it. Under half HP, Ophelia is incredible and gets a huge critical hit boost and will be able to become a killing machine. So Awakening + Ogre Strike + Vantage + her personal skill = death.

Look at those critical bonuses.

I plan on making the ultimate Ophelia for my PvP team. I do love my male mages, but Ophelia will always outshine Odin. :/

Ogre Strike only works when the user initiates the battle so it doesn't work simultaneously with Vantage. But if I come up with a ridiculous Crit stacking build, I'll post it here. I was able to make one for Sorcerer Owain in Awakening where he was able to reach 100% Crit with Vantage against limit broken capped characters in people's Streetpass teams lol.

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Ogre Strike only works when the user initiates the battle so it doesn't work simultaneously with Vantage. But if I come up with a ridiculous Crit stacking build, I'll post it here. I was able to make one for Sorcerer Owain in Awakening where he was able to reach 100% Crit with Vantage against limit broken capped characters in people's Streetpass teams lol.

[spoiler=Amiibo Class Spoiler again] But Awakening works with Vantage, stacked with a critical forged tome + vantage + Line of Death+ Blossoming Mind. Ogre Strike is there to almost instant-kill any unit when it's my turn

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[spoiler=Amiibo Class Spoiler again] But Awakening works with Vantage, stacked with a critical forged tome + vantage + Line of Death+ Blossoming Mind. Ogre Strike is there to almost instant-kill any unit when it's my turn

Oh okay I see. I would do some number crunching to get an estimate of expected crit rates, but I have no idea how the support bonuses work yet haha. Players will probably have access to a decent amount of critical evade without much effort.

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I plan on having four files each for Hoshido, Nohr, and Tōma. The first two files will have a male Avatar while the last two will have a female Avatar, and the odd numbered files will have all characters class changed (a.k.a. promoted) in a different class than the even numbered files. For example, the Avatar will be of the Shiro no Ketsuzoku class in Tōma's first and third files while they'll be of the Dark Blood class for the second and fourth files. That way after I've completed each file (I'm crazy like that, I know) I can easily swap between teams of different characters and classes for any online battle I happen to come across.

One other thing I wanted to discuss is what do people generally do when they apply characters? Do they go for weapons, skills, and pairs that exploit a specific character's assets, go for the stuff that effectively covers for their flaws, or try to strike some sort of balance? For example, Charlotte as a Berserker is effectively the strongest unit damage wise but she can't take much hits; do people go for things that primarily run off of her high strength, do they go for things that help her with her low defense and resistance, or do they try to balance it all out somehow?

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Well I might as well say my part. For Hoshido I planned on marrying either Takumi, Subaki, or Nishiki. For Hoshido, I planned on Leo, Flannel, or Zero. I'll of course marry all of them in different files, but then I'll have to choose basically on a go to husband for each game, eheheh... I have no idea what it'll do to the kids though.

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How does class inheritance work with respect to KamuI? Does Kanna still only inherit Nohr Prince/Princess, or do they inherit the secondary class you pick during avatar creation? Additionally, what about the non-Kanna child? Do they also inherit Nohr Prince/Princess?

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To the best that I've been able to infer from a set of multiple examples:

The child has their own starting class.

The father passes down their starting class, or their secondary class if the child's starting class is the same.

The mother passes down their starting class, or their secondary class if the child already has it.

Kanna's starting class is Nohr Prince(ss), so she should end up receiving both of the Avatar's classes is the hypothesis holds.

Other children should end up only inheriting Nohr Prince(ss) from the Avatar because they don't already start with it.

That's my current understanding to the best of my knowledge (I could still be wrong about this, but I honestly believe that its correct from everything I've seen so far.)

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If you want my honest opinion, Counter is a broken as fuck skill that should be banned in any pvp format where the units on both sides have comparable stats. It was broken in Awakening and is arguably worse here, partly because of the incredibly low HP caps, and partly because ranged weapons have been nerfed so a lot of units will need to rely on melee weapons for good offense. Not to mention that if you are controlling your units, you can force battles at 1-range so all non-bow-using enemies will be forced to take full Counter damage.

So yeah Counter is an amazing skill. A bit too amazing.

the funny thing is everyone in my tram excrpt Anna has it and she can copycat. Anf 1 or 2 have magi counter as well
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To the best that I've been able to infer from a set of multiple examples:

The child has their own starting class.

The father passes down their starting class, or their secondary class if the child's starting class is the same.

The mother passes down their starting class, or their secondary class if the child already has it.

Kanna's starting class is Nohr Prince(ss), so she should end up receiving both of the Avatar's classes is the hypothesis holds.

Other children should end up only inheriting Nohr Prince(ss) from the Avatar because they don't already start with it.

That's my current understanding to the best of my knowledge (I could still be wrong about this, but I honestly believe that its correct from everything I've seen so far.)

And that's right

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Oh okay I see. I would do some number crunching to get an estimate of expected crit rates, but I have no idea how the support bonuses work yet haha. Players will probably have access to a decent amount of critical evade without much effort.

if you would be able to sneek roundhouse + raven struke in there it qould be amazing

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In terms of inheritances (classes, stats, skills, etc.), although its more complicated than before, do we have a sense of which women are more desirable from min-maxing stand points.

You know, in Awakening the kid was associated with the woman and the question was which man was the best husband to make her child a strong unit. Now that its the males who have the kids associated with them, which wives are the best to make the children units as strong as possible?

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In terms of inheritances (classes, stats, skills, etc.), although its more complicated than before, do we have a sense of which women are more desirable from min-maxing stand points.

You know, in Awakening the kid was associated with the woman and the question was which man was the best husband to make her child a strong unit. Now that its the males who have the kids associated with them, which wives are the best to make the children units as strong as possible?

My guess is Nyx, Sakura, Felicia, and Elise will be popular magic mothers for good speed mods and great magic mods.

Charlotte is also going to be a popular mother for fast strength based characters no doubt.

Characters with the negative speed growth will hinder their child a lot since (in my opinion) speed is the most important thing on an offensive unit. Takumi and Leon aren't doing their sons any favors. Those two for example are going to probably desire fast moms in order to make up for that -2 Spd mod.

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Charlotte's mods are pretty crazy good especially if pvp ends up being very offensive player-phase focused. If she were a dad in Awakening, she would've been the undisputed best father in the game (after Robin), especially if that Fighter turned into Pegasus Knight for daughters >>;;

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It will become a question of the extent to which its worthwhile brining up a low-speed child (due to their fathers) vs. compounding the speed advantage of an already fast child. I suppose this depends on how the meta/DLC develops, as well as whether the character would realistically ram against their caps in the main game or not.

Its also an issue to Matoi… she gets her -2 SPD as well (just like Takumi and Leon affect Kisaragi and Foleo), although in this case its from her father, Subaki. As noted before and in other friend, Subaki's mods and growths are really weird for a Pegasus Knight… its something closer to what you might expect for some sort of Wyvern Rider… well, excepting that he also has a -1 STR mod in addition to a neutral magic mod, which doesn't fit that expectation.

Of course, I'm mentioning Matoi here due to tentative "waifu bias"… I liked Cordelia back in Awakening and wouldn't mind pairing off with a Cordelia look-alike again in Fates….

Fortunately, Matoi's mother only needs a +1 speed modifier to return her to at least neutral speed (thanks to the +1 child bonus, which means that combined with a +1 speed mother's modifier would end up canceling out Subaki's speed penalty, in as far as caps go). Matoi also has a decent speed growth as well, so that helps there to offset that of her dad's.

And fortunately for me, both of the characters who would yield a redhead Matoi (to help punctate the Cordelia reference, even if not totally optimal) carry at least this modifier: Hinoka gets +1; Luna gets +2.

[That said, Luna seems to have overall inferior growth rates to Hinoka in most relevant stats, although growths aren't everything…. skills also matter in the main game, so there is also the issue of whose skills you want more, as well as which class access appeals more. But growths wouldn't matter if sufficient grinding (from Hoshido skirmishes or grind DLC) and level cap raising seals eventually let you cap out the unit).

There is also the question of whether another unit wants Hinoka more, or whether another unit wants Luna more on the other hand.

These are what they would be like:

Hinoka!Matoi : +1 Str, +0 Mag, +2 Skl, +0 Spd, +0 Lck, +3 Def, +2 Res; Pegasus Knight, Samurai, Lancer

Luna!Matoi : -1 Str, +1 Mag, +2 Skl, +1 Spd, +0 Lck, +5 Def, +0 Res; Pegasus Knight, Samurai, Mercenary

(earlier I had made a calculation mistake that wrongly stated Luna!Matoi's luck mod as +1 and her res mod as -1)

Here are the growths… Hinoka's are clearly better, although growths only matter before stats cap:

Hinoka's growths: 45% HP, 45% STR, 15% Mag, 40% Skl, 45% Spd, 40% Lck, 35% Def, 40% Res

Luna's growths: 40% HP, 30% STR, 5% Mag, 25% Skl, 45% Spd, 30% Lck, 45 % Def, +30%

Hinoka growths -Luna growths: +5% HP, +15 % STR, +10% Mag, +15%Skl, +0 % Spd, +10% Lck, -10% Def, +10% Res

She literally matches or beats Luna in everything but defense…. Luna's growths actually seem to stink compared to Hinoka…. she does get two breakers (Axe, Kunai) and Sol, that said, so she still has a purpose.

Of course, mother's growth rates only affect 1/3 of the growth rates of the child, if they work like Awakening, so the change on Matoi's growth rates of one mother over the other:

Matoi's growth rate changes by having Hinoka over Luna as a parent: +1.667% HP, +5% Str, +3.333% Mag, +5% Skl, +0% Spd, +3.333% Lck, -3.333% Def, +3.333% Res.

Obviously, Hinoka is still better in these regards, but its not as pronounced of an effects as the division by three comes in as it gets averaged in with Subaki and Matoi's personal growths… again, assuming its like Awakening…

Over 38 levels (1 -> 20 gains 19 levels, 1 promoted to 20 gains 19 levels) :

+0.633 HP, +1.90 Str, + 1.267 Mag, +1.90 Skl, +0 Spd, +1.267 Lck, -1.267 Def, +1.267 Res

So taking Luna!Matoi is an obvious sacrifice in 20/20 stats prior to grinding. The question would be whether her more defensively orientated skills would make her worthwhile in a game where it seems that achieving ORKOs is much more difficult. You know, stuff like being to run Axebreaker to better deal with Berserkers that are supposedly extremely deadly in this game. Of course, Luna!Matoi would only be available on the 3rd route anyways….

Speaking of third route, it seems (assuming the information and supports that have been obtained in the datamine are true) that the various royals can marry amongst each others.

I might very well be tempted to pair up the 4 Hoshidan royals and the 4 Nohrian royals on the 3rd route, just for the idea of putting aside their kingdom's animosities up to the point of having all the core members of their families marry each other… you know, I would highly doubt either Ryoma or Marx would desire hostilities at any point in the future when not only Ryoma is married to a Nohrian princess, but all of his siblings are also married to Nohrian royalty, and the same with Marx/Xander being married to a Hoshidan princess and all his siblings also being married to Hoshidan royalty… I just really like the aesthetic of the idea.

So, while that itself might not be optimal for the 3rd route, it IS possible to optimize within a particular constraint.

So what are people's opinions on what would be the best 3rd route combination of marrying the 4 Hoshidan royals to the 4 Nohrian royals and vice versa?

Xander x Hinoka OR Sakura

Leon x Sakura OR Hinoka

Ryouma x Camilla OR Elise

Takumi x Elise or Camilla

I'm kind of tempted to go with the first listed pair of each of these sets:

Xander x Hinoka, Leon x Sakura, Ryoma x Camilla, and Takumi x Elise…. but does anyone think that I should reverse any of these pairs, given these hypothetical constraints?

Edited by astrophys
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My guess is Nyx, Sakura, Felicia, and Elise will be popular magic mothers for good speed mods and great magic mods.

Charlotte is also going to be a popular mother for fast strength based characters no doubt.

Characters with the negative speed growth will hinder their child a lot since (in my opinion) speed is the most important thing on an offensive unit. Takumi and Leon aren't doing their sons any favors. Those two for example are going to probably desire fast moms in order to make up for that -2 Spd mod.

That bribgs up my question from yesterday again. Takumi or Kisaragi.

That would be my sets. Note: counter/ogre strike comes from an eatlier playthrough where he married rinka just for those skills.

#BlameTakumi x Hana

-Raven Strike

-Logbook Ogre Strike/Stength Seal

-Bowfaire

-Breaking Sky

-Logbook Counter

-[Rivalry]

Classes required: Shura, Holy Bowman, Basara,(Weapon Master)

Endclass: Holy Bowman

Overall: +1Str

+3Skl

-2Spd

+1Lck

-2Res

Kisaragi x Mitama(Matoui)

Parents: Takumi x Hana

-Breaking Sky

-Logbook Counter!!

-Raven Strike

-Magic Counter

-Bowfaire

-[Positive Thinking]

Classes required: Holy Bowman

Endclass: Holy Bowman

Skills inherited: Breaking Sky, Magic Counter

Overall: +3Str

+5Skl

+1Spd

+1Lck

-2Def

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