Unit Optimization Thread

[Dämonplay]

It will become a question of the extent to which its worthwhile brining up a low-speed child (due to their fathers) vs. compounding the speed advantage of an already fast child. I suppose this depends on how the meta/DLC develops, as well as whether the character would realistically ram against their caps in the main game or not.

Its also an issue to Matoi… she gets her -2 SPD as well (just like Takumi and Leon affect Kisaragi and Foleo), although in this case its from her father, Subaki. As noted before and in other friend, Subaki's mods and growths are really weird for a Pegasus Knight… its something closer to what you might expect for some sort of Wyvern Rider… well, excepting that he also has a -1 STR mod in addition to a neutral magic mod, which doesn't fit that expectation.

Of course, I'm mentioning Matoi here due to tentative "waifu bias"… I liked Cordelia back in Awakening and wouldn't mind pairing off with a Cordelia look-alike again in Fates….

Fortunately, Matoi's mother only needs a +1 speed modifier to return her to at least neutral speed (thanks to the +1 child bonus, which means that combined with a +1 speed mother's modifier would end up canceling out Subaki's speed penalty, in as far as caps go). Matoi also has a decent speed growth as well, so that helps there to offset that of her dad's.

And fortunately for me, both of the characters who would yield a redhead Matoi (to help punctate the Cordelia reference, even if not totally optimal) carry at least this modifier: Hinoka gets +1; Luna gets +2.

[That said, Luna seems to have overall inferior growth rates to Hinoka in most relevant stats, although growths aren't everything…. skills also matter in the main game, so there is also the issue of whose skills you want more, as well as which class access appeals more. But growths wouldn't matter if sufficient grinding (from Hoshido skirmishes or grind DLC) and level cap raising seals eventually let you cap out the unit).

There is also the question of whether another unit wants Hinoka more, or whether another unit wants Luna more on the other hand.

These are what they would be like:

Hinoka!Matoi : +1 Str, +0 Mag, +2 Skl, +0 Spd, +0 Lck, +3 Def, +2 Res; Pegasus Knight, Samurai, Lancer

Luna!Matoi : -1 Str, +1 Mag, +2 Skl, +1 Spd, +0 Lck, +5 Def, +0 Res; Pegasus Knight, Samurai, Mercenary

(earlier I had made a calculation mistake that wrongly stated Luna!Matoi's luck mod as +1 and her res mod as -1)

Here are the growths… Hinoka's are clearly better, although growths only matter before stats cap:

Hinoka's growths: 45% HP, 45% STR, 15% Mag, 40% Skl, 45% Spd, 40% Lck, 35% Def, 40% Res

Luna's growths: 40% HP, 30% STR, 5% Mag, 25% Skl, 45% Spd, 30% Lck, 45 % Def, +30%

Hinoka growths -Luna growths: +5% HP, +15 % STR, +10% Mag, +15%Skl, +0 % Spd, +10% Lck, -10% Def, +10% Res

She literally matches or beats Luna in everything but defense…. Luna's growths actually seem to stink compared to Hinoka…. she does get two breakers (Axe, Kunai) and Sol, that said, so she still has a purpose.

Of course, mother's growth rates only affect 1/3 of the growth rates of the child, if they work like Awakening, so the change on Matoi's growth rates of one mother over the other:

Matoi's growth rate changes by having Hinoka over Luna as a parent: +1.667% HP, +5% Str, +3.333% Mag, +5% Skl, +0% Spd, +3.333% Lck, -3.333% Def, +3.333% Res.

Obviously, Hinoka is still better in these regards, but its not as pronounced of an effects as the division by three comes in as it gets averaged in with Subaki and Matoi's personal growths… again, assuming its like Awakening…

Over 38 levels (1 -> 20 gains 19 levels, 1 promoted to 20 gains 19 levels) :

+0.633 HP, +1.90 Str, + 1.267 Mag, +1.90 Skl, +0 Spd, +1.267 Lck, -1.267 Def, +1.267 Res

So taking Luna!Matoi is an obvious sacrifice in 20/20 stats prior to grinding. The question would be whether her more defensively orientated skills would make her worthwhile in a game where it seems that achieving ORKOs is much more difficult. You know, stuff like being to run Axebreaker to better deal with Berserkers that are supposedly extremely deadly in this game. Of course, Luna!Matoi would only be available on the 3rd route anyways….

Speaking of third route, it seems (assuming the information and supports that have been obtained in the datamine are true) that the various royals can marry amongst each others.

I might very well be tempted to pair up the 4 Hoshidan royals and the 4 Nohrian royals on the 3rd route, just for the idea of putting aside their kingdom's animosities up to the point of having all the core members of their families marry each other… you know, I would highly doubt either Ryoma or Marx would desire hostilities at any point in the future when not only Ryoma is married to a Nohrian princess, but all of his siblings are also married to Nohrian royalty, and the same with Marx/Xander being married to a Hoshidan princess and all his siblings also being married to Hoshidan royalty… I just really like the aesthetic of the idea.

So, while that itself might not be optimal for the 3rd route, it IS possible to optimize within a particular constraint.

So what are people's opinions on what would be the best 3rd route combination of marrying the 4 Hoshidan royals to the 4 Nohrian royals and vice versa?

Xander x Hinoka OR Sakura

Leon x Sakura OR Hinoka

Ryouma x Camilla OR Elise

Takumi x Elise or Camilla

I'm kind of tempted to go with the first listed pair of each of these sets:

Xander x Hinoka, Leon x Sakura, Ryoma x Camilla, and Takumi x Elise…. but does anyone think that I should reverse any of these pairs, given these hypothetical constraints?

on your matoi point: I thibk lancer gas the better skills but breaking sky is mainly for mixed characters so they can use the opponent's strength in every way.(that's why I love basara.) But overall you can go for luna anyways caude matoi can marry herself ti get another class. And maybe even A+ Support but I'm not so sure

[Dämonplay]

Btw guys. We need to get this topic going until the next game is announced. So you can see later how the metagame developed over time.

[RuBisCO]

To the best that I've been able to infer from a set of multiple examples:

The child has their own starting class.

The father passes down their starting class, or their secondary class if the child's starting class is the same.

The mother passes down their starting class, or their secondary class if the child already has it.

Kanna's starting class is Nohr Prince(ss), so she should end up receiving both of the Avatar's classes is the hypothesis holds.

Other children should end up only inheriting Nohr Prince(ss) from the Avatar because they don't already start with it.

That's my current understanding to the best of my knowledge (I could still be wrong about this, but I honestly believe that its correct from everything I've seen so far.)

Ah okay, thank you. I was unsure if Kamui had special inheritance rules like the Avatar in Awakening. It's neat to know that Nohr Prince/Princess can be inherited regardless, though.

[astrophys]

Glad I could help.

[Morgan]

So Odin is the only 1st gen with natural access by himself to Vantage Vengeance (though Vengeance did kind of get nerfed)

Also it seems the debate of whether Hinoka or Luna are better red head moms for Matoi are heating up XD

[astrophys]

Its not so much a debate as me rambling… I think I've posted most of the material on Hinoka vs. Matoi, pretty much arguing with myself back and forth.

This is of course because I'm a massive fan of Cordelia from Awakening and now that Matoi has been revealed, I'ld like the opportunity to have her emulate Cordelia to the extents that are possible/reasonable.

Not to mention that with the issue that you seemingly cannot get all of the the children as a male Corrin unless you marry one of the Kamui-only marriage candidates or a second gen, and that makes Matoi (who is also a second gen) even more appealing on top of my pre-existing positive bias for her, as it gives me a gameplay excuse to pick a second gen like her anyways.

But on that note, what asset/flaws do you think that I should take if I want Corrin to marry either Hinoka!Matoi or Luna!Matoi? From an optimization within such constraints consideration?

Of course, I kind of want to run a magical (or hybrid) Avatar because that's the sort of stuff that appeals to me, but I'm not going to pretend that that would be optimal. Although if I did, what asset/flaw for a magical avatar marrying one of these Matoi's would you recommend?

(The reasons why going magic might not be optimal with her would be she doesn't have a huge magic mod and all of her parents only have magic growths from 5% - 20% personal, which means it could take a long time to bring her up to being good at magic…. ALTHOUGH hybrid classes like Basara and Dark Knight do exist, which would allow her to use a physical weapon while slowly bringing up her magic. Hinoka!Matoi gets +1 Str and +0 magic, so she has a slight lean to strength, but could still conceivably go hybrid when maxed out. Luna!Matoi gets -1 Str and +1 Mag, so she tilts to magic in modifier terms, even though it would take ages to get up there… although -1 Str isn't exactly insurmountably terrible…. both of her parents also have that, for example… and she does naturally get Swordfaire access through Samurai.

Any thoughts on what I should go with for my secondary?

I had been vaguely thinking about Dark Mage because it would grant my character the option for S-rank tomes, offer their skills (not available in the Hoshido path, to my knowledge, and in 3rd path letting a marriage sealed Luna!Matoi imitate Cordelia extremely closely (except for the replacement of Dark Flier with Golden Kite Warrior and Dark Flier becoming Dark Falcon as DLC)….. or I suppose I could go with Spellcaster (to get Excorcist's Tomefaire + the hybrid Basara)…..

Thoughts?

[capmalachi]

They really should have added a hair dye accessory to My Castle. Then we might get people talking about other parents for Matoi. :P

[astrophys]

Perhaps… although there's also the support conversations for Matoi with

Luna/Severa

[Dämonplay]

They really should have added a hair dye accessory to My Castle. Then we might get people talking about other parents for Matoi. :P

Would be a changd.

[Dämonplay]

Its not so much a debate as me rambling I think I've posted most of the material on Hinoka vs. Matoi, pretty much arguing with myself back and forth.

This is of course because I'm a massive fan of Cordelia from Awakening and now that Matoi has been revealed, I'ld like the opportunity to have her emulate Cordelia to the extents that are possible/reasonable.

Not to mention that with the issue that you seemingly cannot get all of the the children as a male Corrin unless you marry one of the Kamui-only marriage candidates or a second gen, and that makes Matoi (who is also a second gen) even more appealing on top of my pre-existing positive bias for her, as it gives me a gameplay excuse to pick a second gen like her anyways.

But on that note, what asset/flaws do you think that I should take if I want Corrin to marry either Hinoka!Matoi or Luna!Matoi? From an optimization within such constraints consideration?

Of course, I kind of want to run a magical (or hybrid) Avatar because that's the sort of stuff that appeals to me, but I'm not going to pretend that that would be optimal. Although if I did, what asset/flaw for a magical avatar marrying one of these Matoi's would you recommend?

(The reasons why going magic might not be optimal with her would be she doesn't have a huge magic mod and all of her parents only have magic growths from 5% - 20% personal, which means it could take a long time to bring her up to being good at magic. ALTHOUGH hybrid classes like Basara and Dark Knight do exist, which would allow her to use a physical weapon while slowly bringing up her magic. Hinoka!Matoi gets +1 Str and +0 magic, so she has a slight lean to strength, but could still conceivably go hybrid when maxed out. Luna!Matoi gets -1 Str and +1 Mag, so she tilts to magic in modifier terms, even though it would take ages to get up there although -1 Str isn't exactly insurmountably terrible. both of her parents also have that, for example and she does naturally get Swordfaire access through Samurai.

Any thoughts on what I should go with for my secondary?

I had been vaguely thinking about Dark Mage because it would grant my character the option for S-rank tomes, offer their skills (not available in the Hoshido path, to my knowledge, and in 3rd path letting a marriage sealed Luna!Matoi imitate Cordelia extremely closely (except for the replacement of Dark Flier with Golden Kite Warrior and Dark Flier becoming Dark Falcon as DLC).. or I suppose I could go with Spellcaster (to get Excorcist's Tomefaire + the hybrid Basara)..

Thoughts?

if you wanna go for pvp optimization I would just screw a red haired matoi. If you wanna build what you like then I would go with a magic class and maybe +Mag/Skl -Lck Edited July 2, 2015 by Dämonplay

[astrophys]

I have no interest in PvP, on that note….

My interest is doing the best I can while simultaneously holding to certain constraints reflective of what I'd like to envision my Avatar as (such as his class and who he's paired with)….. constrained optimization, if you would…. something that's not the best on the absolute scale, but is the best within a clearly specified SUBSET of the available options.

[Dämonplay]

I have no interest in PvP, on that note….

My interest is doing the best I can while simultaneously holding to certain constraints reflective of what I'd like to envision my Avatar as (such as his class and who he's paired with)….. constrained optimization, if you would…. something that's not the best on the absolute scale, but is the best within a clearly specified SUBSET of the available options.

I Know I kinda do the same. I don't want to buy skills from other people just from previous savefiles. And that limits it too.

[Ebony]

Oh yeah, anyone got any good ideas on who to pair Lazward with?

[Dämonplay]

Oh yeah, anyone got any good ideas on who to pair Lazward with?

Good question. Since soleil is gonna be related to my team, brcause she's gonna be the wife of Siegbert I should really think about it more

[Ebony]

I have no clue who I'm gonna marry him to. I'm tempted to say Luna if only because the hair color and I won't be having the third path for a while so...

[capmalachi]

I have no clue who I'm gonna marry him to. I'm tempted to say Luna if only because the hair color and I won't be having the third path for a while so...

I'll ignore the Hoshido characters since you don't have the third path. I'm somewhat thinking that Camilla might be a good choice. She gives Soleil +3 str and +4 skl and the wyvern rider tree, which has some decent skills in it, without leaving her lacking in any stat.

Edited July 2, 2015 by capmalachi

[Ebony]

I'll ignore the Hoshido characters since you don't have the third path. I'm somewhat thinking that Camilla might be a good choice. She gives Soleil +3 str and +4 skl and the wyvern rider tree, which has some decent skills in it, without leaving her lacking in any stat.

Go ahead and say the Hoshido characters, I'll eventually get it. Camilla sounds interesting though, I won't lie.

[capmalachi]

Go ahead and say the Hoshido characters, I'll eventually get it. Camilla sounds interesting though, I won't lie.

Actually to be honest Camilla still strikes me as the best choice. Soleil's natural strengths are in str and skl, which Camilla helps with. Not many of the Hoshido women really strike me as doing much for Soleil overall. Setsuna could be used to patch up her speed but she wouldn't do anything for her str and wouldn't give her any more skl than Camilla would, while also lowering her def slightly, plus bowman doesn't seem like a great class for Soleil. Hana would give her the same str and skl bonuses as Camilla, plus some speed, but it'd come at the price of a decent hit to her def, although samurai could be a good class for her.

I'd still pick Camilla overall, but Hana could be a decent alternative.

[Dämonplay]

Go ahead and say the Hoshido characters, I'll eventually get it. Camilla sounds interesting though, I won't lie.

Well the hoshido options for lazward are very limited. Felicia Aqua Kagerou are the only ones......and two of them are neutral

[capmalachi]

Well the hoshido options for lazward are very limited. Felicia Aqua Kagerou are the only ones......and two of them are neutral

Oh right I forgot that they didn't get everyone from the other side. Er, should probably forget Hana then.

[Dämonplay]

Oh right I forgot that they didn't get everyone from the other side. Er, should probably forget Hana then.

you know what I just thought. If I let Siegnert and soleil marry and if soleils mother is camilla isn't that incest?

Nah stop it don't start tht topic xD. Cause simply it's a game and I don't care.

[Ebony]

Camilla sounds like a great option honestly. Really pretty too... I like this.

[Dämonplay]

Camilla sounds like a great option honestly. Really pretty too... I like this.

yeah espeviaöly stat wise. I don't know if wyvern rider is taht good. Cause mosz of the skills aren't that good excpet maybe deadly breath. I think I'm gonna go with taht too.

[Ebony]

Ah Hell, I just realized it's gonna be relatively difficult to pair Odin up with someone stat wise, isn't it?

[capmalachi]

Ah Hell, I just realized it's gonna be relatively difficult to pair Odin up with someone stat wise, isn't it?

Elise or Nyx. Either works really, compared to each other, Nyx gives +1 str (not important), def and spd (actually useful) and passes down the thief class while Elise gives +2 luck instead and passes down rod knight. Either way you're looking at +5 mag. I'd personally vote Nyx for mods since class inheritance is less important in this game thanks to marriage/buddy seals and buying skills from streetpass.

Edited July 2, 2015 by capmalachi