Unit Optimization Thread

[mimasho]

Personally? I go for Oboro for Matoi.

gasp NEVER

aha that aside, she's already married to Takumi xD

(it's literally the first pair I get for all of the five runs I've done so far lol)

but...everyone else is a free agent ; u ;

(excluding Hinoka b/c I have Marx or Leon plans for her and Luna because she'll probs marry Hinata)

[Ebony]

Aye I forgot about your OTP.

Well, Kagerou could be interesting. Makes her a bit slower, but she'd be an interesting Trueblade.

[Wayward Alchemist]

Eh, I wouldn't lower her Spd any more considering Subaki's dreadful Spd already. I'd go with at least a +1 modifier for her mom so she can have at least a neutral modifier. However, even then, kids like Shigure, Kanna, and Mido will likely be running around with anywhere from a +3 to a +11 modifier in Spd, easily outstripping Matoi in all forms (barring maybe Setsuna, but even then Azura or Setsuna!Eponine or Mido!Kanna will outspeed any unit except for herself. Also, Ebony, the gif in your sig is mesmerizing. What is it from, if you don't mind me asking?

[astrophys]

Okay, so I think I filled the remaining ones in… wall of text incoming.

Marriages and Buddies

Notation: (Husband + Husband's Buddy) x (Wife + Wife's Buddy)

1st Gen Pairings:

1. (Tsubaki + Zero) x (Hinoka + Camilla)
2. (Ryoma + Xander) x (Rinkah + Charlotte)
3. (Takumi + Leo) x (Hana + Effie)
4. (Saizou + Lazward) x (Kagerou + Rinkah);
5. (Hinata + Nishiki) x (Pieri + Luna)
6. (Asama +Tsubaki) x (Orochi + Nyx)
7. (Kaze + Xander or Slias) x (Felicia + Flora)
8. (Jakob + Takumi) x (Azura + Sakura)
9. (Silas + Ryoma) x (Oboro + Belka)
10. (Nishiki + Hinata) x (Mozume + Oboro)
11. (Tsukuymoi + Asama) x (Nyx + Mozume)

12. (Benoit + Tsukuyomi) x Belka + (Oboro)
13. (Flannel + Benoit) x (Camilla + Hinoka)
14. (Xander + Ryoma) x (Charlotte + Rinkah)
15. (Leo +Odin) x (Sakura + Elise)
16. (Zero + Tsubaki) x (Setsuna + Hinoka)
17. (Odin + Lazward) x (Elise + Azura)
18. (Arthur + Zero or Flannel) x (Effie + Hana)
19. (Lazward + Flannel) x (Luna + Setsuna)

1st Gen (Avatar) x 2nd Gen Pairing

20. (Kamui/Corrin + any male A supports) x (Hinoka!Matoi + Sophie)

2nd Gen Pairings:

21. (Azura!Deere + Gurei) x (Camilla!Velour + Sophie)
22. (Jakob!Shigure + Hisame) x (Orochi!Mitama + Kanna)
23. (Rinkah!Shinonome + Seigbert) x (Setsuna!Eponine + Matoi)
24. (Hana!Kisaragi + Deere/Foleo) x (Felicia!Midoriko + Kinu)
25. (Kagerou!Gurei + Deere) x (Oboro!Sophie + Matoi)
26. (Pieri!Hisame + Shigure) x (Hinoka!Matoi!Kanna + Mitama)
27. (Charlotte!Seigbert + Shinonome) + x (Luna!Soleil + Ophelia):
28. (Sakura!Foleo + Shigure) x (Mozume!Kinu + Kanna)
29. (Effie!Lutz + Deere) x (Nyx!Syalla + Matoi)
30. (Belka!Ignis + Seigbert) x (Elise!Ophelia + Syalla)

CLASSES

CLASSES

1.

Tsubaki: Pegasus Warrior, Samurai, Lance Fighter, Outlaw
Hinoka: Pegasus Warrior, Lance Fighter, Samurai, Wyvern Rider

2.

Ryoma: Samurai, Pegasus Warrior, Oni Savage, Cavalier

Rinkah: Oni Savage, Ninja, Samurai, Fighter

3.

Takumi: Bowman, Lance Fighter, Samurai, Dark Mage
Hana: Samurai, Priestess, Bowman, Knight

4.

Saizou: Ninja, Samurai, Spellcaster, Mercenary
Kagerou: Ninja, Spellcaster, Samurai, Oni Savage

5.

Hinata: Samurai, Oni Savage, Cavalier, Spellcaster
Pieri: Cavalier, Dark Mage, Samurai, Mercenary

6.

Asama: Priest, Herb Merchant, Spellcaster, Pegasus Warrior
Orochi: Spellcaster, Herb Merchant, Priestess, Dark Mage

7.

Kaze: Ninja, Samurai, Rod Knight, Cavalier
Felicia: Rod Knight, Mercenary, Ninja, Dark Mage

8.

Jakob: Rod Knight, Cavalier, Pegasus Warrior, Bowman
Azura: Singer, Pegasus Warrior, Rod Knight, Priestess

9.

Silas: Cavalier, Mercenary, Lance Fighter, Samurai
Oboro: Lance Fighter, Herb Merchant, Cavalier, Wyvern Rider

10.

Nishiki: Fox Spirit, Spellcaster, Bowman, Samurai
Mozume: Villager, Bowman, Spellcaster, Lance Fighter

11.

Tsukuyomi: Spellcaster, Oni Savage, Dark Mage, Priest
Nyx: Dark Mage, Outlaw, Spellcaster, Bowman

12.

Benoit: Knight, Fighter, Wyvern Rider, Spellcaster
Belka: Wyvern Rider, Fighter, Knight, Lance Fighter

13.

Flannel: Garou, Fighter, Wyvern Rider, Knight
Camilla: Wyvern Rider, Dark Mage, Fighter, Pegasus Warrior

14.

Xander: Cavalier, Wyvern Rider, Fighter, Samurai
Charlotte: Fighter, Rod Knight, Cavalier, Oni Savage

15.

Leon: Dark Mage, Rod Knight, Priest, Samurai
Sakura: Priestess, Pegasus Warrior, Dark Mage, Rod Knight

16.

Zero: Outlaw, Dark Mage, Bowman, Pegasus Warrior
Setsuna: Bowman, Ninja, Outlaw, Pegasus Warrior

17.

Odin: Dark Mage, Samurai, Rod Knight, Mercenary
Elise: Rod Knight, Wyvern Rider, Dark Mage, Pegasus Warrior

18.

Arthur: Fighter, Cavalier, Knight, Outlaw
Effie: Knight, Rod Knight, Fighter, Samurai

19.

Lazward: Mercenary, Ninja, Pegasus Warrior, Fighter
Luna: Mercenary, Pegasus Warrior, Ninja, Bowman

20.

Kamui: Nohr Prince, Dark Mage, Pegasus Warrior, all A-support male classes
Hinoka!Matoi: Pegasus Warrior, Samurai, Lance Fighter, Dark Mage, Cavalier

21.

Azura!Deere: Rod Knight, Cavalier, Pegasus Warrior, Fighter, Ninja
Camilla!Velour: Garou, Fighter, Wyvern Rider, Rod Knight, Cavalier

22.

Jakob!Shigure: Pegasus Warrior, Rod Knight, Wyvern Rider, Priest, Samurai
Orochi!Mitama: Priestess, Herb Merchant, Spellcaster, Pegasus Warrior, Dark Mage

23.

Rinkah!Shinonome: Lance Fighter, Samurai, Oni Savage, Outlaw, Cavalier
Setsuna!Eponine: Outlaw, Dark Mage, Bowman, Lance Fighter, Pegasus Warrior

24.

Hana!Kisaragi: Bowman, Lance Fighter, Samurai, Herb Merchant, Rod Knight
Felicia!Midoriko Herb Merchant, Ninja, Rod Knight, Bowman, Spellcaster

25.

Kagerou!Gurei: Ninja, Samurai, Spellcaster, Cavalier, Rod Knight
Oboro!Sophie: Cavalier, Mercenary, Lance Fighter, Ninja, Pegasus Warrior

26.

Pieri!Hisame: Samurai, Oni Savage, Cavalier, Dark Mage, Pegasus Warrior
Hinoka!Matoi!Kanna: Nohr Princess, Dark Mage, Pegasus Warrior, Samurai, Priestess

27.

Charlotte!Seigbert: Cavalier, Wyvern Rider, Fighter, Mercenary, Lance Fighter
Luna!Soleil: Mercenary, Ninja, Pegasus Warrior, Cavalier, Dark Mage

28.

Sakura!Foleo: Rod Knight, Dark Mage, Priest, Spellcaster, Pegasus Warrior
Mozume!Kinu: Fox Spirit, Spellcaster, Villager, Rod Knight, Dark Mage

29.

Effie!Lutz: Wyvern Rider, Fighter, Knight, Dark Mage, Rod Knight
Nyx!Syalla: Spellcaster, Oni Savage, Dark Mage, Wyvern Rider, Pegasus Warrior

30.

Belka!Ignis: Knight, Fighter, Wyvern Rider, Dark Mage, Cavalier
Elise!Ophelia: Dark Mage, Samurai, Rod Knight, Knight, Spellcaster

[Ebony]

Also, Ebony, the gif in your sig is mesmerizing. What is it from, if you don't mind me asking?

It's Scathatch as a Lancer from the PV for a Japanese only game Fate/Grand Order. She was (and right now continues to) be my favorite Lancer from the game (besides Cu Chulainn) so I put her in my signature. She's awesome.

Also, what about a Felicia Matoi? I know sh'e s a bit more... magical... but... Basara?

[astrophys]

Indeed, you've had a lot of Fates characters in your Avatar and your signature… before you had an Avatar of Kirei Kotomine, now its Kiritsugu Emiya.

Going back to the main topic, Felicia as the mother of Matoi would make her have really low STR growth and lowish magic (high for not traditionally magical unit but very low compared to traditionally magical ones)…. she would get Tomebreaker (combo with Mirror Strike) and Servant's Joy (use with support Falcon Warrior).

I suppose she could abuse Shinrai Naginata as a Falcon Warrior (or Basara) for her main means of damage.

[Ebony]

Indeed, you've had a lot of Fates characters in your Avatar and your signature… before you had an Avatar of Kirei Kotomine, now its Kiritsugu Emiya.

Going back to the main topic, Felicia as the mother of Matoi would make her have really low STR growth and lowish magic (high for not traditionally magical unit but very low compared to traditionally magical ones)…. she would get Tomebreaker (combo with Mirror Strike) and Servant's Joy (use with support Falcon Warrior).

I suppose she could abuse Shinrai Naginata as a Falcon Warrior (or Basara) for her main means of damage.

Yeah I know. I'm in love with the series. And also Kotomine Kirei and Kiritsugu Emiya but that's another story about my awful taste in men for another time.

I'm kind of stuck on her though. If only because Matoi was never a priority for me. Not because I hate her (granted she's one of my least favorites just because I'm not big on the clones, but I never really hated her) but because she has some... weird stats due to her dad. This means she'd be a character I'd experiment with. Like Kagerou, someone (for the life of me I can't remember who) said she'd be interesting as a "slower trueblade" so I'd try that out.

Also, maybe Mozume or Sakura. I completely forgot about Sakura.

Also I forgot Matoi doesn't get Basara unless she S-supports Shinonome... eh...

[astrophys]

Well, I don't have the game yet (all my writing has been theory crafting, and also assuming more of a grinding context for invisible kingdom rather than no-grind, in which my theory-crafted sets aren't going to emerging)…. but yeah, I have thought of some similar things…

Like Kagerou…. I'm using her on a Gurei in a simlar capacity…. rather than "slower Trueblade), he'd be "slower but stronger Ninja"…. you know, 35-2 SPD = 33 SPD, 27 + 5 STR = 32 STR). I think its a reasonable concept…. transform a class that is normally crazy fast but on the low side of str into a class that is now better on STR but slightly slower (but still fast compared to some other classes).

[Ebony]

Oh, there is one other option I wanted to try. Nyx. She seems strange for Matoi as a mom. I don't mind trying out stranger mothers. Besides she's the only other Nohr option. I wanna see if she has any uses besides giving Matoi lovely black hair.

[Carter]

I've been wondering, would Luna!Soleil as a Pegasus Warrior (promoted Falcon Warrior) be good? Or at least better than Shigure?

[Wayward Alchemist]

I've been wondering, would Luna!Soleil as a Pegasus Warrior (promoted Falcon Warrior) be good? Or at least better than Shigure?

Luna!Soliel (in my opinion) is one of the best Magekillers in the game, even with a neutral mod, at least in IK. She has access to Ninja and Pegasus Knight, the two best Magekilling classes in the game (and Dread Fighter).

My favorite build is...

Luna!Soliel@Dread Fighter

-Kunaifaire

-Mirror Strike

-Magic Counter (A+ Mitama)

-Tomebreaker (Marriage to Foleo, because it's cute and it works out great)

-Swallow Strike (Dread Fighter isn't very fast, and she only has a +2 mod. However she only has a +1 Str mod, so Elite Ninja doesn't cut it)

[gayserbeam]

I've been wondering, would Luna!Soleil as a Pegasus Warrior (promoted Falcon Warrior) be good? Or at least better than Shigure?

Luna!Soleil Mods:

1 STR / 1 MAG / 2 SKL / 2 SPD

2 LUK / 1 DEF / 0 RES

Lazward!Shigure / Azura!Soleil Mods:

2 STR / 1 MAG / 4 SKL / 3 SPD

2 LUK / -3 DEF / 0 RES

Neither are surviving very long, but I'd definitely argue that Shigure is better here. Luna!Soleil's mods are basically just Luna, so you kind of squander Soleil's potential.

Lazward!Shigure also gets Tomebreaker, if your goal was mage-killing.

Edited September 7, 2015 by gayserbeam

[Carter]

*cry* why is my favorite such a SUCKY UNit god dammit lunavera you were so strong in awakening

Hmm, if that doesn't work out, how is Camilla!Soleil? She gets a snazzy hair color, and Pegasus Warrior from marrying Shigure

[mimasho]

aaah after reading these posts and sleeping on it, I'll probably just stick with Aqua again ; u ;

while Felicia!Matoi sounds nice, I'd prefer her to be a non-magic user (since other child units outrank her in that category),

but Kagerou as a mother sounds interesting.

Now that I think about it, Rinka was left unmarried in my previous IK run...

which of the three would be better, Kagerou, Rinka, or Aqua ?

(in terms of strength growths and disregarding skills, end class will most likely be falcon warrior or great lord).

[December Knight]

aaah after reading these posts and sleeping on it, I'll probably just stick with Aqua again ; u ;

while Felicia!Matoi sounds nice, I'd prefer her to be a non-magic user (since other child units outrank her in that category),

but Kagerou as a mother sounds interesting.

Now that I think about it, Rinka was left unmarried in my previous IK run...

which of the three would be better, Kagerou, Rinka, or Aqua ?

(in terms of strength growths and disregarding skills, end class will most likely be falcon warrior or great lord).

If you want just strength, Kagerou is you're best bet.

Kagerou!Matoi's Mods - HP : 0, STR : 3, MAG : 1, SKL : 2, SPD : -2, LCK : 0, DEF : 3, RES : 1

Rinka!Matoi's Mods - HP : 0, STR : -1, MAG : 1, SKL : 1, SPD : 0, LCK : 0, DEF : 6, RES : 0

Aqua!Matoi's Mods - HP : 0, STR : 0, MAG : 1, SKL : 4, SPD : 2, LCK : 0, DEF : 1, RES : 0

(I know these aren't growths but I didn't know if I would get it right, so I went with mods instead... Hopefully that was okay.)

Edited September 7, 2015 by December Knight

[mimasho]

If you want just strength, Kagerou is you're best bet.

Kagerou!Matoi's Mods - HP : 0, STR : 3, MAG : 1, SKL : 2, SPD : -2, LCK : 0, DEF : 3, RES : 1

Rinka!Matoi's Mods - HP : 0, STR : -1, MAG : 1, SKL : 1, SPD : 0, LCK : 0, DEF : 6, RES : 0

Aqua!Matoi's Mods - HP : 0, STR : 0, MAG : 1, SKL : 4, SPD : 2, LCK : 0, DEF : 1, RES : 0

(I know these aren't growths but I didn't know if I would get it right, so I went with mods instead... Hopefully that was okay.)

Oh no worries ! mods are great as well, thanks so much !! * U *

Looks like I'll probably be going Rinka!Kinu then, and aah that +3 STR looks good, but...speed lol

I will have to think things through a bit more ~

[Ebony]

I'll admit, Matoi is one of the units I kinda wanna play around with. I'll most likely stick to Oboro!Matoi but I'd like to experiment.

Like Nyx and Tsubaki.

[astrophys]

Oboro Matoi is quite similar to Hinoka!Matoi in several key aspects… both get the same class sets (Pegasus/Samurai/Lance Fighter), both have +1 STR and +0 SPD mods.

As for their differences:

Oboro causes Matoi to have +4 SKL, -1 LCK, +5 Def, and -1 RES.

Hinoka causes Matoi to have +2 SKL, +0 LCK, +3 DEF, and +2 Res.

Both have +0 magic.

Hinoka has better growths overall (305% vs. 280%).

Oboro can pass down a Herb Merchant Skill OR can pass down a Spellcaster, Oni Savage, Wyvern, or Bowman skill by buddy supports. She can only pass down one skill, so these options are mutually exclusive.

Hinoka can pass down skills from these trees by buddy support: Priestess, Archer, Wyvern Rider, or Rod Knight (Azura, replacement class for Singer)

[Ebony]

Oboro Matoi is quite similar to Hinoka!Matoi in several key aspects… both get the same class sets (Pegasus/Samurai/Lance Fighter), both have +1 STR and +0 SPD mods.

As for their differences:

Oboro causes Matoi to have +4 SKL, -1 LCK, +5 Def, and -1 RES.

Hinoka causes Matoi to have +2 SKL, +0 LCK, +3 DEF, and +2 Res.

Both have +0 magic.

Hinoka has better growths overall (305% vs. 280%).

Oboro can pass down a Herb Merchant Skill OR can pass down a Spellcaster, Oni Savage, Wyvern, or Bowman skill by buddy supports. She can only pass down one skill, so these options are mutually exclusive.

Hinoka can pass down skills from these trees by buddy support: Priestess, Archer, Wyvern Rider, or Rod Knight (Azura, replacement class for Singer)

Eh yeah, but I'm also pairing Hinoka with Silas right now. For Hoshido that is. Like I said I'm more interested in a Nyx Matoi because I don't understand why she's kind of a choice...

[astrophys]

Well, Nyx's personal magic growth is 50%. .

Mother and Child Growth hypothesis: Matoi gets 32.5% magic growth (contrast to 15% default); Str growth would be 20% (same as Setsuna's personal growth)

Father, Mother, and Child Grwoth Hypothesis: Matoi gets 28.333% magic growth (contrast to 15% default). Strength growth would be 23.333%

In both cases, these are personal growths. Add class growths for actual numbers.

This Matoi might able to abuse Shinrai Nagiantas (the magic lances) better than some other mothers due to increased magic growth… they have higher mights than Steels, can double easily, etc…. they just don't let you use skills and they drop avoid… oh, and 1-2 range without doubling penalties or helping the enemy double you.

She also gets Dark Knight, which can use Swordfaire or swords in common with Samurai. She also gets Bowbreaker if Matoi can bear going through Sorcerer. That could be taken back to Pegasus.

[Ebony]

... My that sounds fascinating, actually. I'll have to try that at some time. Even the weirdest parents can have some neat niches. Thanks.

And she looks great imo

[SapphireFalconWing]

Well, Nyx's personal magic growth is 50%. .

Mother and Child Growth hypothesis: Matoi gets 32.5% magic growth (contrast to 15% default); Str growth would be 20% (same as Setsuna's personal growth)

Father, Mother, and Child Grwoth Hypothesis: Matoi gets 28.333% magic growth (contrast to 15% default). Strength growth would be 23.333%

In both cases, these are personal growths. Add class growths for actual numbers.

This Matoi might able to abuse Shinrai Nagiantas (the magic lances) better than some other mothers due to increased magic growth… they have higher mights than Steels, can double easily, etc…. they just don't let you use skills and they drop avoid… oh, and 1-2 range without doubling penalties or helping the enemy double you.

She also gets Dark Knight, which can use Swordfaire or swords in common with Samurai. She also gets Bowbreaker if Matoi can bear going through Sorcerer. That could be taken back to Pegasus.

I honestly wish Camilla was the choice instead especially with her mods, class branch and of course that lovely purple hair...

[Duke of Dozel]

I'm sure Nyx! Matoi will want to stay a Dark Flier when the class is available. Also she can be a good healer and as astrophys stated, she'll be a good Flame Lance Shinrai Nagianta user, as well as the magical bow if iirc as a golden kite warrior. She'll have a 31 magic cap as a falcon and 30 with Golden kite. Support her with a bow user or lancer to get faires, and she can be a flying status baton user as well.

[SapphireFalconWing]

Hmm....looking at it now Nyx!Matoi isn't that bad at all might try it next playthrough as Dark Falcon and pair her with a mag asset luck flaw Kamui for a mag base Kanna.

[Dollysama]

What would be a good skill set for a +skl/-hp Femui! Soleil @ Brave Hero in Nohr? I'm stuck on which skills I should give her, although I'm considering passing down a Hoshidan skill such as Renewal or Breaking Sky.