Unit Optimization Thread

[Leif]

I can't remember if this was ever shown here, but I saw a video showing optimal pairings for an IK play through.

I'll list them here:

[spoiler=Ideal? Pairings]

- Azura x Jakob

- Odin x Elise

- Leo x Sakura

- Silas x Camilla

- Subaki x Hinoka

- Takumi x Oboro

- Ryoma x Setsuna

- Xander x Mozume

- Kaze x Orochi

- Saizou x Berka

- Lazward x Luna

- Tsukuyomi x Nyx

- Arthur x Kagerou

- Hana x Nishiki

- Charlotte x Flannel

- Zero x Felicia

- Benoit x Rinkah

- Hinata x Peiri

- Asama x Effie

- Male Avatar x Charlotte!Velour

- The video didn't show what optimal pairing a female avatar could have, but I assume it would be a second gen male unit.

Surprisingly, I do agree with almost all of the pairings. I wasn't expecting Berka!Gurei to be any good, but he gets a great skill modifier, as well as access to Snake Venom and Deadly Breath.

What do you guys think?

[Duke of Dozel]

[spoiler=I added my opinion]

- Azura x Jakob: Great and easy, gives Jacob pega for awesome support, and helps Azura become a great support. Mods for their kids are great.

- Odin x Elise - Set in stone, his best pairing outside of female Kamui. Elise can focus her huge magic growth in the mage class.

- Leo x Sakura - No negative mods, huge magic, Leo and Sakura both benefit from each other's classes, gives skills like magic counter and tomefaire to Leo, who uses it the best.

- Silas x Camilla - Solid and safe pairing.

- Subaki x Hinoka - Another safe pair, great growths and decent mods on Matoi. Tsubaki gets lancer to make him more effective combat wise.

- Takumi x Oboro - Safe pair, easy to do, great growths, nice side classes.

- Ryoma x Setsuna - Extremely beneficial if Setsuna is underleveled. Gives monster mods to Shinonome. Gives Ryoma damage skills from the bowman tree.

- Xander x Mozume - Aptitude, gives bowman class to Xander and cavalier to Mozume, who can jump right in with her lance rank. Not the best, but it works.

- Kaze x Orochi - Not as effecient to Kaze than Saizou since he's bad at magic, but their daughter will do better with it. Orochi get's ninja to help with her offense with Venom snake, and gets copycat. Her speed is repaired with Kaze's +3 mod.

- Saizou x Berka - Venom Breah + Snake Venom is a deadly combo which is very beneficial. Very high skill for them, but Grey will have a -3 speed mod, the same as Benoit. He'll probably be best at chip damage and status lowering, unless he uses the mighty shuriken.

- Lazward x Luna - Safe, easy, good mods, Lazwald gets pegasus to help his speed, Luna gets ninja. A solid daughter.

- Tsukuyomi x Nyx - very high magic, dark mage class helps Tsukuyomi be the best mage he can, offers the balance of the spell caster to Nyx.

- Arthur x Kagerou - Makes Kagerou extremely devastating with the fighter class, gives Harold ninja to patch his speed. Monster Lutz.

- Hana x Nishiki - Helps with Nishiki's skill problems and gives Hana spellcaster for flamboyant and breaking sky. Squishy family, but great offense.

- Charlotte x Flannel - Balances their weaknesses and focuses on their strengh. Another extremely strong child. Not much in the way of skills but helps Flannel with tome breaker I suppose.

- Zero x Felicia - Ups Eponine's magic to avoid her trash STR mod, Zero gets butler in case he becomes screwed. Nice skills for both, and Felicia can keep her staff rank as an adventurer.

- Benoit x Rinkah - Helps Ingis' speed, gives him a +6 defense mod, oni savage skills and class for Benoit, and Rinka can fit right in as a knight.

- Hinata x Peiri - I hear it's good but I've never really tried it.

- Asama x Effie - Makes Mitama the physical unit she wants to be, gives Knight to Asama to maximize his physical potential, gives Elfie renewal and magic counter.

- Male Avatar x Charlotte!Velour - Sounds good enough.

I wouldn't call this optimal, but it's still pretty solid.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Duke of Dozel

[Pokechu]

afaik Flannel doesn't get anything from Marriage Seal w/ Charlotte, but I may be wrong.


Isn't Orochi!Ophelia best Ophelia though? Her speed is horrible, but she can S support Ignis for Defensive Formation, and she has innate Breaking Sky access.
[spoiler=Orochi!Ophelia]

             Str       Mag       Skl          Spd       Lck         Def       Res
             1         5          4           -2         1          -1         1

[spoiler=Elise!Ophelia]

Str        Mag        Skl        Spd        Lck          Def       Res
 0          5          0          1          3           -2         1

The only things Elise!Ophelia beats Orochi!Ophelia in are SPD and LCK. SPD is covered by Defensive Formation, and LCK isn't all that important. However, Orochi!Ophelia beats Elise!Ophelia in STR, SKL, and DEF. They tie in MAG and RES. Imo Rod Knight doesn't have good skills and you can A+ with Shara, having innate Spellcaster is good because it lets Ophelia get other skills. Copycat Ophelia seems threatening and Sol lets Ophelia heal herself and it'd probably activate a lot with her 4 SKL modifier. Also, Odin gets Spellcaster access as well which is more useful to him than Rod Knight.

I just honestly can't see why Elise!Ophelia is better when Orochi!Ophelia has higher SKL, STR, and DEF, and a better class passed down.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Pokechu

[Duke of Dozel]

Ophelia doesn't have many characters worth buddy sealing so Syalla/Tharja 2.0 is still worth, and Odin staying magical isn't such a great feat since he only has a +1 magic mod, and his strength growth is higher than his magic. It's still a solid pairing, but Orochi's speed kills Ophelia's doubling potential, meaning she's stuck to landing criticals or being a vantage nosferatu tank. Also Elise/s magic is just as good.

[Leif]

Ophelia doesn't have many characters worth buddy sealing so Syalla/Tharja 2.0 is still worth, and Odin staying magical isn't such a great feat since he only has a +1 magic mod, and his strength growth is higher than his magic. It's still a solid pairing, but Orochi's speed kills Ophelia's doubling potential, meaning she's stuck to landing criticals or being a vantage nosferatu tank. Also Elise/s magic is just as good.

Well, Ophelia can buddy Midoriko so she can get Copycat and Extravagance. That's a decent option for those two skills only.

However, for in-game practicality, Syalla is the better option due to Ophelia having access to Tomefaire.

[Pokechu]

Ophelia doesn't have many characters worth buddy sealing so Syalla/Tharja 2.0 is still worth, and Odin staying magical isn't such a great feat since he only has a +1 magic mod, and his strength growth is higher than his magic. It's still a solid pairing, but Orochi's speed kills Ophelia's doubling potential, meaning she's stuck to landing criticals or being a vantage nosferatu tank. Also Elise/s magic is just as good.

What Leif said, basically. Copycat and Extravagance are really good, and while Shara does get you Tomefaire you would already have it with Orochi!Ophelia thus allowing you to A+ Midoriko.

Also S Support Ignis to not worry about speed.

EDIT: Also also also! Orochi can A+ Rinka for Ogre Strike and pass it down. Elise has no ways to get Ogre Strike.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Pokechu

[Leif]

What Leif said, basically. Copycat and Extravagance are really good, and while Shara does get you Tomefaire you would already have it with Orochi!Ophelia thus allowing you to A+ Midoriko.

Also S Support Ignis to not worry about speed.

EDIT: Also also also! Orochi can A+ Rinka for Ogre Strike and pass it down. Elise has no ways to get Ogre Strike.

Well you can always buy the skills via logbook, ehehehe.

The sad thing about Defensive Formation on a mage is in PvP you'll have Raven Strike, Line of Death, Extravagance, Aggressor, Prescient Victory, Brave Weapon wielders ORKOing or even OHKOing absolutely anything in their path; Defensive Formation is kinda useless against such power.

The skill combo grants +31 extra damage and +40 Hit during a round of battle. The only unit I can see having a chance of surviving that ridiculous combo would be Miracle!Midoriko, and that's not accounting for a forged Brave Weapon.

I can only imagine that PvP will be condensed to 'who hits who first'.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Leif

[Pokechu]

Well you can always buy the skills via logbook, ehehehe.

The sad thing about Defensive Formation on a mage is in PvP you'll have Raven Strike, Line of Death, Extravagance, Aggressor, Prescient Victory, Brave Weapon wielders ORKOing or even OHKOing absolutely anything in their path; Defensive Formation is kinda useless against such power.

The skill combo grants +31 extra damage and +40 Hit during a round of battle. The only unit I can see having a chance of surviving that ridiculous combo would be Miracle!Midoriko, and that's not accounting for a forged Brave Weapon.

I can only imagine that PvP will be condensed to 'who hits who first'.

Ehh, any pairing is good if you buy skills. It's not that much of an accomplishment imo.

Elise!Ophelia would probably get doubled regardless though, because her speed modifier is just 1 and there's going to be Azura!Midorikos and Kaze!Shigures, Kinus, and also 3rd gen Kannas. Neither of them will be that great in PVP tbh.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Pokechu

[Nanima]

Is there any way a Hinoka!Foleo would be useable? I am not that deep into the mechanics yet, but from what I can tell the only thing he'd have going for him would be massive resistance.

I know a Sakura!Foleo would be much more optimal, but I just prefer HinokaxLeon.

Any tips?

[Duke of Dozel]

Hinoka!Foleo

0STR, 2MAG, 0SKL, 0SPD, 1LUK, 0DEF, 5RES He'll be a mage tank with these mods but thats about it. At least there isn't any negative.

In this pairing, Leo gets pegasus, Sakura get's dark mage. I suppose Leon can make use of the class, swallow strike comes to mind, but Hinoka won't like Dark Mage at all. Foleo will basically be Leon 2.0 without his PRF tome and a higher res cap.

It isn't terrible, but I'd imagine Hinoka's physical growths wont be optimal with their son.

[gayserbeam]

Hinoka!Foleo

0STR, 2MAG, 0SKL, 0SPD, 1LUK, 0DEF, 5RES He'll be a mage tank with these mods but thats about it. At least there isn't any negative.

In this pairing, Leo gets pegasus, Sakura get's dark mage. I suppose Leon can make use of the class, swallow strike comes to mind, but Hinoka won't like Dark Mage at all. Foleo will basically be Leon 2.0 without his PRF tome and a higher res cap.

It isn't terrible, but I'd imagine Hinoka's physical growths wont be optimal with their son.

Hinoka can definitely take advantage of Lifetaker and Bowbreaker, and Leo definitely likes the SPD boost from the pair-up.

It's Foleo, that's the problem, yeah. Hinoka's and Leo's mods basically cancel eachother out. Those mods aren't really better than a first gen unit.

[Leif]

Ehh, any pairing is good if you buy skills. It's not that much of an accomplishment imo.

Elise!Ophelia would probably get doubled regardless though, because her speed modifier is just 1 and there's going to be Azura!Midorikos and Kaze!Shigures, Kinus, and also 3rd gen Kannas. Neither of them will be that great in PVP tbh.

As much as I hate to say this, PvP is going to be primarily physical units. The only magic unit I could see being used is Witch Nyx!Syalla. With +5 Magic AND Speed modifiers, she will have incredible magic and speed, with her potential boosted by an inherent +10Avoid and Crit. The downside, however, is her horrific skill growth, not helped by her mother at all. She needs to have Skill Books galore.

[Duke of Dozel]

Ehh, any pairing is good if you buy skills. It's not that much of an accomplishment imo.

Elise!Ophelia would probably get doubled regardless though, because her speed modifier is just 1 and there's going to be Azura!Midorikos and Kaze!Shigures, Kinus, and also 3rd gen Kannas. Neither of them will be that great in PVP tbh.

Even if that's the case, Ophelia can just inherit Defensive Formation from Elise A+ Elfie, leaving her to more men to marry than just Ingis.

[ChaosTheory]

How would Orochi!Soleil manage?

[Nanima]

Hinoka can definitely take advantage of Lifetaker and Bowbreaker, and Leo definitely likes the SPD boost from the pair-up.

It's Foleo, that's the problem, yeah. Hinoka's and Leo's mods basically cancel eachother out. Those mods aren't really better than a first gen unit.

Thanks, looks like I can at least still use him. It's stupid when one of your pairings produces an underwhelming unit, but what can you do..

Any suggestions on Sakura!Siegbert?

[ShotaLordNoctis]

How would Orochi!Soleil manage?

She would need to be a healer to perform her job well.Luckily she has quite a few resources.

she could S Support Foleo or Dia for Servants Joy and Tome Breaker

an A+ with Mitama to also get renewal and magic counter too. also very high skill mod but don't expect her to double.since she has ninja she could pick up copycat to distribute more healing safely

[zoned out]

As much as I hate to say this, PvP is going to be primarily physical units. The only magic unit I could see being used is Witch Nyx!Syalla. With +5 Magic AND Speed modifiers, she will have incredible magic and speed, with her potential boosted by an inherent +10Avoid and Crit. The downside, however, is her horrific skill growth, not helped by her mother at all. She needs to have Skill Books galore.

I can see Nyx!Eponine working out decently as a magic unit. She'd have +4 Magic and +6 Speed. While less Mag than Syalla, that extra one speed could be the difference of doubling or not. She'd have 40% Mag and 35% skill Growth opposed to Syalla's 55% Mag and 22% Skill growth. The biggest downside I could see is that Eponine would require a parallel seal to exorcist use and starting from Rank E in tomes where Syalla could just child seal to pick up tomefaire.

Oh, Syalla could also get access to one of the Samurai skills through Fuuga. Vantage or Line of Death would be good.

Edited October 6, 2015 by zoned out

[astrophys]

Well, Witch (DLC, although you can get 1 for free) gets 36 MAG and 34 SPD normally, right… so it would give the aesthetically nice result of an even 40 MAG, 40 SPD when capped…

[FireRuby14]

What class and Asset/Flaw would be of benefit to marry a Nyx!Eponine in a Nohr run?

[Duke of Dozel]

Any suggestions on Sakura!Siegbert?

Not very optimal as you might have guessed. Sakura's magic gets wasted on Seigbert's low natural magic growth, and her 30 STR doesn't make him a heavy hitter that he could be. Skill wise, he gets all possible skills from his dad as well as the priestess class, which isn't very great considering. Only ones he could use well is Renewal and magic counter.

Very nice Luck, though. Sakura could get Luna and Aegis, but Xander doesn't need the skills so much, and it's not really worth reclassing for them.

3 STR, 2 MAG, -1 SKL, 1 SPD, 3 LUK, 1 DEF, -1 RES

[zoned out]

Well, Witch (DLC, although you can get 1 for free) gets 36 MAG and 34 SPD normally, right… so it would give the aesthetically nice result of an even 40 MAG, 40 SPD when capped…

ha, thats personally my biggest reason for Nyx!Eponine.

What class and Asset/Flaw would be of benefit to marry a Nyx!Eponine in a Nohr run?

+Mag/-Def for +8 Mag and Spd Kanna. Though in a Nohr run, it might not be a good idea. I haven't played the game, but I've heard that Defense Formation gets pretty common. Also Kanna has really shitty growths and Nyx!Eponine, while decent, will only slightly improve Kanna's. Unless you're planning to grind, I wouldn't recommend it.

Nyx!Eponine : HP 30 // Str 25 // Mag 40 // Skl 35 // Spd 45 // Lck 35 // Def 20 // Res 37

Nyx!Eponine!Kanna : HP 30 // Str 30 // Mag 35 // Skl 37 // Spd 45 // Lck 40 // Def 22 // Res 31

And here's Nyx!Syalla for comparison's sake: HP 35 // Str 10 // Mag 55 // Skl 22 // Spd 50 // Lck 25 // Def 20 // Res 32

[Nanima]

Not very optimal as you might have guessed. Sakura's magic gets wasted on Seigbert's low natural magic growth, and her 30 STR doesn't make him a heavy hitter that he could be. Skill wise, he gets all possible skills from his dad as well as the priestess class, which isn't very great considering. Only ones he could use well is Renewal and magic counter.

Very nice Luck, though. Sakura could get Luna and Aegis, but Xander doesn't need the skills so much, and it's not really worth reclassing for them.

3 STR, 2 MAG, -1 SKL, 1 SPD, 3 LUK, 1 DEF, -1 RES

Thanks again. At least it's not as bad as I thought. I'll just have to deal with the fact that some of my favourite pairings result in subpar children. I will still do them anyway.

[Duke of Dozel]

You could always do a no child run, and it opens up the possibilities of pairings tremendously. There are better mothers for Shinonome than Rinka, but with him out of the question, you can optimize Ryoma with skills he wants.

[Leif]

I can see Nyx!Eponine working out decently as a magic unit. She'd have +4 Magic and +6 Speed. While less Mag than Syalla, that extra one speed could be the difference of doubling or not. She'd have 40% Mag and 35% skill Growth opposed to Syalla's 55% Mag and 22% Skill growth. The biggest downside I could see is that Eponine would require a parallel seal to exorcist use and starting from Rank E in tomes where Syalla could just child seal to pick up tomefaire.

Oh, Syalla could also get access to one of the Samurai skills through Fuuga. Vantage or Line of Death would be good.

Nyx!Eponine is good for the main story, but from a PvP perspective...

...unfortunately for Nyx!Eponine, it's impossible for her to get all of the essential skills needed to become the staple player phase juggernaut.

She cannot marry Kisaragi or Hisame for Bowman and Samurai respectively. Nyx can buddy Mozume for Bowman, but she would only have to pass down either Prescient Victory or Raven Strike. So from a PvP perspective Syalla is better due to having access to Extravagance from Nishiki!Tsukuyomi, Raven Strike from Mozume!Nyx, Line of Death from Hisame, Aggressor from Dread Fighter, and Warp from Witch.

Of course this could be remedied through log booking. Nyx!Eponine has more reliable growths, so I do agree with you there. She also gets Spell Caster which gives her access to Flamboyant, Tomefaire, and Breaking Sky.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Leif

[zoned out]

Yeah I din't look that deep into the comparison beyond mods and growths, You're right, Syalla has has a way better skillset ingame than Eponine could ever have without Logbooking and buying skills.