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Morgan
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Mozume!Midoriko is a waste of villager's skillset that Mozume gives considering I just talked about Midoriko only needing some help on dad's end to get the Extravagance/Line of Death setup. If anything Midoriko wants Miracle, since between her personal and her dad's personal that's actually quite a bit of miracle activation. (There's also FeMU for Hoshido + Miracle and she could A+ Kinu for Flamboyant)

Mozume goes a lot better on people who can't get LoD/Extravagant themselves. I kinda want to say Takumi for her, because (I think) her hidden class ends up giving Takumi himself Herb Merchant, and Takumi's own LoD is only one Ryouma away, while also giving the set to his kid. Hana's also a solid option, being faster and able to get Kisaragi into having positive speed modifiers. It'd make Kisaragi's A+ options practically nonexistent (Shino gives him nothing, Hisame is his go-to but if mom gives him Samurai then there's no point, Dia and Foleo are both in a class he doesn't care one bit about unless you want an entire team of butlers for hilarity), but Kisaragi's skillset is already pretty solid. If you go the Mozume route for Kisaragi, however, and if I'm right about the Herb Merchant thing, Takumi can even send up Copycat.

Also why's Setsuna mothering 2 different people

Edited by Thor Odinson
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Mozume!Midoriko is a waste of villager's skillset that Mozume gives considering I just talked about Midoriko only needing some help on dad's end to get the Extravagance/Line of Death setup. If anything Midoriko wants Miracle, since between her personal and her dad's personal that's actually quite a bit of miracle activation. (There's also FeMU for Hoshido + Miracle and she could A+ Kinu for Flamboyant)

Mozume goes a lot better on people who can't get LoD/Extravagant themselves. I kinda want to say Takumi for her, because (I think) her hidden class ends up giving Takumi himself Herb Merchant, and Takumi's own LoD is only one Ryouma away, while also giving the set to his kid. Hana's also a solid option, being faster and able to get Kisaragi into having positive speed modifiers. It'd make Kisaragi's A+ options practically nonexistent (Shino gives him nothing, Hisame is his go-to but if mom gives him Samurai then there's no point, Dia and Foleo are both in a class he doesn't care one bit about unless you want an entire team of butlers for hilarity), but Kisaragi's skillset is already pretty solid. If you go the Mozume route for Kisaragi, however, and if I'm right about the Herb Merchant thing, Takumi can even send up Copycat.

Also why's Setsuna mothering 2 different people

Then what mother is good for Midoriko actually, since I remember Mozume gives 0 Luck Mod for Midoriko.!

And

Idk what mothers to choose for Kinu, or Eponine actually

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You're not going to miss 1-2 luck. Midoriko's skill is a flat additive modifier and not percentage scaling off the relevant stat. Once you get the activation rates to that high it doesn't really matter if you're running 70% or 71%. The difference is negligible. The only time that small amount matters is going from 99% to 100% and Midoriko can stack proc rates but it doesn't stack quite that high.

Sakura, or anyone who can A+ Sakura, can give Miracle, which is the one skill she really wants. If you're averse to skillbuying, there's also FeMU since Hoshido benefits Midoriko a lot, but if you're not just buy it for her.

One or two points of luck is not worth screwing someone else out of a parent with a powerful skill combo, when Villager is entirely redundant for her. Only reason you should do Suzu/Mozume is if you liked their support, but even then I found that support just okay

Edited by Thor Odinson
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You're not going to miss 1-2 luck. Midoriko's skill is a flat additive modifier and not percentage scaling off the relevant stat. Once you get the activation rates to that high it doesn't really matter if you're running 70% or 71%. The difference is negligible. The only time that small amount matters is going from 99% to 100% and Midoriko can stack proc rates but it doesn't stack quite that high.

Sakura, or anyone who can A+ Sakura, can give Miracle, which is the one skill she really wants. If you're averse to skillbuying, there's also FeMU since Hoshido benefits Midoriko a lot, but if you're not just buy it for her.

One or two points of luck is not worth screwing someone else out of a parent with a powerful skill combo, when Villager is entirely redundant for her. Only reason you should do Suzu/Mozume is if you liked their support, but even then I found that support just okay

Yeah, if you want to marry Mozume to someone, she's better off marrying someone where the father has a child that benefit the LoD/Extravagence more since Midoriko can naturally get this by getting LoD through inheritance via Kaze. While Mozume does give Midoriko a decent speed and luck growth, Mozume is better paired off with another character who is a physical damage dealer and take advantage of the LoD/Extravagence combo. For example, characters like Deere, Sophie, Soleil, any female unit that can pair up with Siegbert, Matoi, and Shino benefit Mozume as a mother since they have personal skills that can boost their damage output on certain conditions.

For Midoriko, there are actually better mothers for her than Mozume. Ideally, you want to pair Kaze up with mothers who have relatively high speed and luck growths, more specially, mothers that can pass down a class where Midoriko can access Luck% skills. Sakura is a good mommy for Midoriko since she can access Renewal and Miracle (Miracle really helps Midoriko in a lot of combat situations). Not to mention, Sakura already has naturally high luck and speed growths that will help Midoriko and the hybrid nature of Sakura in terms of magic and strength opens Midoriko up to more class options. If you playing the Nohr route, Felicia is a good mother for Midoriko as well since Felicia can access Stubbornness and inherit this skill to Midoriko. You can make Luna Midoriko's mother for less effort since Luna's starting class is a Mercenary, but bear in note that Luna's luck growths are atrocious.

In fact, if you can secure Hoshido, Flamboyant, Miracle, Renewal, and Stubbornness through Logbooking, Midoriko is going to be a pretty powerful combat unit that not only she'll survive from critical hits about 70% of the time, but she'll end up healing herself 50% of her max health about 70% of the time whenever it is your turn. You may also want to consider reclassing Midoriko as either Falcon Knight or Basara if you want to take advantage of her personal skill (Basara if you want more offensive capacity, or Falcon Knight if you want her as a support/utility unit).

That being said, most of the time, Midoriko is mostly treated as a support/utility unit because 1) most Luck% skills except Stubbornness and Miracle are mostly utility based, 2) Midoriko strength caps is screwed over by her father, so it's pretty difficult to make her a physical damage dealing offensive unit, if you want her to be a powerful offensive unit, she's better off having a magic user/high magic growth like Elise, Sakura, or Felicia as mothers and equip her with a magic damage dealing weawpon. If you want Midoriko to be a good offensive unit, you may need to consider securing the following skills: Renewal, Flamboyant, Hoshido, Stubbornness, Line of Death, Extravagence, Miracle. You can swap Renewal and Stubbornness for LoD/Extravagence and she can still deal a lot of damage. If you want to take use of Kunaifaire from Kaze's starting class, you may need to consider Buddy/Marriage supporting someone and reclass her as a Maid since Maids have better strength caps than Ninja and have WAY better luck cap.

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Don't regard Modoriko as "she is good at nothing but Lck% skills", her father has amazing +2 Skl and +3 Spd.

It is better to find out a good build without considering Lck so much, and then Modoriko becomes a good choice for having Lucky Charm.

For skills, Modiroko can buy/learn Hoshido+Nohr, and then pair up with her father.

Kaze has Miraculous Save+Lethality+Astra and easily gets Aegis.

If Midoriko's mother is Sakura, Kaze also gets Miracle.

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I would give Charlotte or Effie to Velour for high Strength (Luna doesn't give her good mods).

I chose Effie for mine and I kept her as a Managarm (Garou). Berserker is good too.

My Elfie is already taken by Asama already, becuz Elfie!Mitama is pretty brutal, with High Str Mods.

And ik Charlotte! Velour can be good, but I kinda don't like the blonde hair strings on Velour actually.

But how does Velour do well as Elite Ninja, or Dread Fighter anyway.?

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My Elfie is already taken by Asama already, becuz Elfie!Mitama is pretty brutal, with High Str Mods.

And ik Charlotte! Velour can be good, but I kinda don't like the blonde hair strings on Velour actually.

But how does Velour do well as Elite Ninja, or Dread Fighter anyway.?

Well Flannel gives her a +3 Strength mod so I would take advantage of that (which is why I'd choose a mother that gives lots of Strength); Flannel also gives her -2 Skl and -1 Spd mods, not very good for Elite Ninja or Dread Fighter).

Keep in mind that this is for optimization (so she wouldn't be necessarily bad in either of those classes, it's just that you'd want to choose what's best for her). Charlotte would be my choice in your case.

Effie!Mitama is really good by the way.

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How does Charlotte!Kinu, Setsuna!Kisaragi, Setsuna!Eponine(Seperate File in Invisible Kingdom/Touma File ONLY), and Camilla!Soleil or Pieri!Soleil work out in Invisible Kingdom/Touma, and PvPs.?

EDIT: Also who's a good mother for Sophie in Invisible Kingdom/Touma, and PvPs btw.?

Edited by Tide of Waves
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  • 3 weeks later...

I've noticed an increase in "rate my pairings" threads. I do believe this thread was meant for that kind of iquiries, so what better timing is there to bump this again with my own request for advice. This is kinda a half-repost from earlier in this thread, but I won't spam anymore if I don't get any help, though I'd still like to try at least once more.

I have a hard time deciding on my theoretical 5-man team for PvP purposes (on Invisible Kingdom/Revelations) as well as MyCastle (not as important). Basically, what I try to achieve is to not entirely screw up. I don't intend to abuse the most possible in general nor do I find it particularly entertaining to go for cheesy puppet, lethality, extravagance, etc. builds, but I still want to put up a noteworthy fight, you know. My preferences for pairings, that do not knowingly aim at the best possible combination of classes or skill/stat-inheritance, also deny me the possibility of reaching the summit, so I'd already be satisfied if facing me online doesn't induce yawning for my enemies.

Here is my current line-up (PvP):

Kamui (Speed+/Mag-) as Holy Lancer or (+Skill/-Magic Trueblade): One of these Dragon Fang/Luna/Breaking Sky/Astra + Nohr (mostly for the synergy with Effie) + Axebreaker + Counter + Unknown 5th skill,

Effie (Waifu) as General: Luna + Flamboyant + Pavise + Aegis + Defense Formation
Rinkah!Velour as Managarmr: Counter + Beastbane + Renewal + Odd Cry or Four Fangs + Lancebreaker
Hinoka!Siegbert as Falcon Rider: Is Rescue or Sun God any good? + Luna + Diamond Strike + Lancefaire + Unspecified 5th skill (Overbearing?)
5th char is undetermined due to my doubts about having an already garbo idea for the rest. Thought about a Basara, but that would be ANOTHER lance user, even if I would gain the magic aspect. The wish to have the entire family requires to add Kanna, but I've heard she kinda sucks. Otherwise a Holy Bowman for ranged attacks (Takumi?) or a Trueblade Kagerou!Shinonome all came to mind...

Generally, I wanted to have a defensive team, that actually wants the enemy to initiate and then die afterwards. Probably dumb, as an offensive strategy seems to be the right way, but hey. I want to be that special butterfly, I guess.

Here my planned pairings for IK if someone sees any good possible unit out of my shippings (BOLD means I care for those characters to not suck due to personal preferences). I WILL use the EXP/GOLD maps, so yes, I can and will grind in IK a whole lot:

MU (Holy Lancer/Trueblade) /Effie (General) - Kanna (General?, Basara?)
Jacob/Azura- Deere, Shigure
Silas (Paladin)/Camilla- Sophie (Paladin)
Kaze/Felicia - Midoriko
Ryoma/Kagerou - Shinonome (Trueblade)

Takumi/Setsuna - Kisaragi
Saizou/Charlotte - Gurei

Asama/Oboro - Mitama

Hinata/Hana - Hisame

Subaki/Orochi - Matoi

Nishiki/Mozume - Kinu

Xander/Hinoka (Holy Lancer/Falcon Rider)- Siegbert (Falcon Rider)

Leo/Sakura - Foleo

Lazward (Hero) /Luna (Hero)- Soleil (Hero)

Odin/Elise - Ophelia

Zero/Nyx - Eponine

Arthur/Pieri - Lutz

Benoit/Belka - Ignis

Flannel/Rinkah - Velour (Managarm)

Pairings on the other routes (for skills) are still interchangeable, even partially on the third route. Thanks in advance for any advice on how to avoid disasters.

Last thing: I imagine people will dislike my Velour due to the stat modifiers from Rinkah, but I kinda really want a Counter-Managarm, probably stupid, but what can I say; Awakening ruined me.

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^I can't be of any help, but I CAN tell you this: Unfortunately, Counter wasn't very good for the player in Awakening. And it's even worse in Fates; basically, it and similar skills only work when the enemy initiates combat.

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^I can't be of any help, but I CAN tell you this: Unfortunately, Counter wasn't very good for the player in Awakening. And it's even worse in Fates; basically, it and similar skills only work when the enemy initiates combat.

For Main-Story purposes I agree entirely, but when facing streetpass enemies, Counter was, like, the most annoying thing for me. And since I'm theorycrafting for PvP and MyCastle (since the main playthrough won't be a problem, I believe), I don't see how Counter lost its charm too much except for the "enemy phase only" thing, but maybe someone could enlighten me? If it's absolutely unuseable, I will probably avoid it.

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For Main-Story purposes I agree entirely, but when facing streetpass enemies, Counter was, like, the most annoying thing for me. And since I'm theorycrafting for PvP and MyCastle (since the main playthrough won't be a problem, I believe), I don't see how Counter lost its charm too much except for the "enemy phase only" thing, but maybe someone could enlighten me? If it's absolutely unuseable, I will probably avoid it.

That right there was about the only thing Counter as good for in Awakening - giving you grief.

Edited by Levant Colthearts
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Basically what made Counter an asshole streeptass skill in Awakening is that you can make a team of max-strength, low def berserkers for streetpass with forged brave axe and go up in someone's face, force them into melee range, and most definitely get a kill that way if the player isn't super careful about positioning or have something ridiculous like 126atk to just oneshot them (I forgot how high my +8 str Morgan got to but I think it wasn't quite 126). Now it's easily avoidable (the player can just not attack you on Player Phase with whatever triggers the counter) and better damage-boosters exist in more reliable forms.

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er, I mean what class should she end as and with which skills..

Berserker if this is for postgame and you don't mind some Eternal Sealing, Great Knight for in-game

I don't have a fullset but you'd probably want Axefaire and Luna. Maybe Line of Death from A+ Kazahana, too, postgame-only. Diamond Strike might be good, too.

GK is hands down her most practical in-game class unless you can get her paladin (which with Flannel you can't), but Zerk works better in postgame once you have whatever time to grind DLC and Axe rank to really take advantage of her skill and high strength.

Edited by Thor Odinson
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Basically what made Counter an asshole streeptass skill in Awakening is that you can make a team of max-strength, low def berserkers for streetpass with forged brave axe and go up in someone's face, force them into melee range, and most definitely get a kill that way if the player isn't super careful about positioning or have something ridiculous like 126atk to just oneshot them (I forgot how high my +8 str Morgan got to but I think it wasn't quite 126). Now it's easily avoidable (the player can just not attack you on Player Phase with whatever triggers the counter) and better damage-boosters exist in more reliable forms.

Well, ok then, I guess I'll swap it out. Anyone have any advice on what skills to take instead? I guess I'll also change Rinkah for someone else then; that ship ain't too important for me.

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Berserker if this is for postgame and you don't mind some Eternal Sealing, Great Knight for in-game

I don't have a fullset but you'd probably want Axefaire and Luna. Maybe Line of Death from A+ Kazahana, too, postgame-only. Diamond Strike might be good, too.

GK is hands down her most practical in-game class unless you can get her paladin (which with Flannel you can't), but Zerk works better in postgame once you have whatever time to grind DLC and Axe rank to really take advantage of her skill and high strength.

ok thanks

Would tomebreaker be of any use?

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Here is my current line-up (PvP):

Kamui (Speed+/Mag-) as Holy Lancer or (+Skill/-Magic Trueblade): One of these Dragon Fang/Luna/Breaking Sky/Astra + Nohr (mostly for the synergy with Effie) + Axebreaker + Counter + Unknown 5th skill,

Effie (Waifu) as General: Luna + Flamboyant + Pavise + Aegis + Defense Formation

Rinkah!Velour as Managarmr: Counter + Beastbane + Renewal + Odd Cry or Four Fangs + Lancebreaker

Hinoka!Siegbert as Falcon Rider: Is Rescue or Sun God any good? + Luna + Diamond Strike + Lancefaire + Unspecified 5th skill (Overbearing?)

5th char is undetermined due to my doubts about having an already garbo idea for the rest. Thought about a Basara, but that would be ANOTHER lance user, even if I would gain the magic aspect. The wish to have the entire family requires to add Kanna, but I've heard she kinda sucks. Otherwise a Holy Bowman for ranged attacks (Takumi?) or a Trueblade Kagerou!Shinonome all came to mind...

Last thing: I imagine people will dislike my Velour due to the stat modifiers from Rinkah, but I kinda really want a Counter-Managarm, probably stupid, but what can I say; Awakening ruined me.

+Skl isn't all that useful post-game. that's only +4 Skl, which is only a 2% or 4% extra skill trigger rate, which is barely worth mentioning. also if we're to compare to +Spd, that's only +2 Skl so you're really only getting 1~2% higher skill triggers, which definitely isn't much. meanwhile, +Spd gives Kamui 42 total Spd (w/ Yato Ult and -Mag) so will double anything 37 and under vs 33 and under. you now double most 1st gen rival Trueblades and probably a bunch of other Gen 2 not completely focused on Spd. you could even go for Spd even further and go for -Luc or -Def instead so you don't get a -Spd mod.

Rescue is probably really niche and in a fast-paced 5v5, probably too much time used up (especially if it ends the unit's turn right after, does it?). if you want some semblance of healing, there's probably better units to use for Falcon than Seigbert (like Azura w/ passive Aura heal or Hinoka herself providing aura dmg boost)

what would make Kanna bad post-game? she has the most variable mods so you can make it w/e you want. can also more easily have w/e class she wants at the end. so if she's a bad Child unit, none of the other ones are good either (unless you're giving major pts for Garou/Fox classes)

also remember you can buy skills (forgot what I thought of this in respect to)

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+Skl isn't all that useful post-game. that's only +4 Skl, which is only a 2% or 4% extra skill trigger rate, which is barely worth mentioning. also if we're to compare to +Spd, that's only +2 Skl so you're really only getting 1~2% higher skill triggers, which definitely isn't much. meanwhile, +Spd gives Kamui 42 total Spd (w/ Yato Ult and -Mag) so will double anything 37 and under vs 33 and under. you now double most 1st gen rival Trueblades and probably a bunch of other Gen 2 not completely focused on Spd. you could even go for Spd even further and go for -Luc or -Def instead so you don't get a -Spd mod.

Rescue is probably really niche and in a fast-paced 5v5, probably too much time used up (especially if it ends the unit's turn right after, does it?). if you want some semblance of healing, there's probably better units to use for Falcon than Seigbert (like Azura w/ passive Aura heal or Hinoka herself providing aura dmg boost)

what would make Kanna bad post-game? she has the most variable mods so you can make it w/e you want. can also more easily have w/e class she wants at the end. so if she's a bad Child unit, none of the other ones are good either (unless you're giving major pts for Garou/Fox classes)

also remember you can buy skills (forgot what I thought of this in respect to)

The Skill/Speed comparison makes sense. If the skill difference is also negligible for, lets säy, accuracy/hit chance or what not, then I'll definitely stick to speed +. One thing I do not know however, is magic important to have for post-game as Holy Lancer with Effie as synergy in mind, should I take another weakness besides magic?

If Rescue does end the turn, it would indeed be too slow. Also, I thought the stats would be a bit better with Siegbert, and a healing aura could be given with "Sun God", but who knows, maybe I'll end up with Hinoka as Falcon Rider and Siegbert as the fifth spot on my team.

Kanna is supposedly underwhelming and doesn't stand out much. I hope I like her enough to have her on my team, but it's just what I have been hearing, it is true I do not know what might make her bad, though.

Regarding the skill purchase: I'm guessing it was for me to change Rinkah to someone else in order to give Velour better stat mods? The reason being I could buy Counter if I REALLY wanted to have it? Just assuming. My reason to still take Rinkah for that particular skill was because it is kinda hard to get Counter on her otherwise AND I wanted to give her Lancebreaker (I believe lance was the right choice as a beast due to the anti-beast weapon, but maybe nobody uses them, I don't know :S), but I guess that is now a mute point.

Your insight is much appreciated.

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