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No problem. It also just occurred to me that Elice could be killed after using the skill. Therefore the wording on it is in case you summon another Elice you wouldn't be able to use the new one's Aum staff to do another revival.

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I have a question about card like Exalted Strategist, Robin (Female). When It says "if you have less orbs than your opponent" is it stricly less or does having equals number of orbs count to trigger the effect?

For exemple can I heal one orb with Robin effect if me and my opponent are at 0 orb?

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Placing level 5 Marth on level 4 Marth is Level Up, right? (You don't draw and pay 5?)

You pay the promotion cost of 4 bonds(with at least one faced up Shadow Dragon bond card) and this is considered a Class Change, you do draw a card.

At the same time, it is also a Level Up. This is how the two terms are defined:

Class Change: You put a card from your hand onto another unit with the same character name on the battlefield while paying its Class Change Cost. You draw a card when you carried out a Class Change.

Level Up: You put a card from your hand onto another unit with the same character name on the battlefield.

Thus, Class Change is also Level Up at the same time BUT not the other way round.

This also means to say you can put a Cost 4 Marth on another same Cost 4 Marth on your battlefield paying only the promotion cost of 3 bonds and proceed to draw a card. Can be used to refresh your hand or to trigger any other units' skills that require allied unit to class change for the turn.

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You pay the promotion cost of 4 bonds(with at least one faced up Shadow Dragon bond card) and this is considered a Class Change, you do draw a card.

At the same time, it is also a Level Up. This is how the two terms are defined:

Class Change: You put a card from your hand onto another unit with the same character name on the battlefield while paying its Class Change Cost. You draw a card when you carried out a Class Change.

Level Up: You put a card from your hand onto another unit with the same character name on the battlefield.

Thus, Class Change is also Level Up at the same time BUT not the other way round.

This also means to say you can put a Cost 4 Marth on another same Cost 4 Marth on your battlefield paying only the promotion cost of 3 bonds and proceed to draw a card. Can be used to refresh your hand or to trigger any other units' skills that require allied unit to class change for the turn.

I don't think that's quite right. Placing Cost 5 on top of cost 4 should only require the "Promotion cost" as the unit is already on the field. However, I believe to receive the "Class Change Bonus" (when you draw a card from promotion) your unit needs to actually change class. Since Cost 4 and Cost 5 Marth are both Star Lords (Lodestars) no class change has occurred therefore no class change bonus.

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I don't think that's quite right. Placing Cost 5 on top of cost 4 should only require the "Promotion cost" as the unit is already on the field. However, I believe to receive the "Class Change Bonus" (when you draw a card from promotion) your unit needs to actually change class. Since Cost 4 and Cost 5 Marth are both Star Lords (Lodestars) no class change has occurred therefore no class change bonus.

Class Change occurs when you pay the Class Change Cost, the class names are decorative purposes(for now) and does not affect the Class Change process in anyway. The game checks for an existing same character name unit on the field, the number of bond cards you have on the field and whether you got at least one faced up bond card of the required colour to pay for the Class Change Cost. No Class Name is being checked here and nowhere in the rulebook or the official site rules and faqs mentioned about needing the Class Name to be different. Class Change bonus of drawing a card follows immediately after a Class Change occurs. There's no half-half in Class Change, you pay Class Change Cost means that unit has "Class Changed", you pay Deployment Cost means there is no Class Change involve. Simple and clear.

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No, it's a separate phase, and even happens after you already drew that turn. I specified that you cannot draw, as most TCGs with a similar mechanic have you draw when doing such an action. In Buddyfight, you draw, and then you have the option to "charge" a card (place a card from your hand into the gauge) and if you do this, you would draw another card. Basically, the fact of the matter is, people would think that you could draw another card when you placed a bond if I didn't say that, due to how so many other games work.

Ehh, honestly, that just makes it more confusing for new players because no one is going to just assume you draw a card when you play a Bond.

Just because another card game does that (I've never played a card game where you draw when you play mana, Magic isn't like that, Pokemon isn't like that, WoW TCG wasn't like that, VS System wasn't like that, Force of Will isn't like that, yea, tons of games aren't like that) doesn't mean people will assume the mechanics are the same.

I'm definitely curious, you say a lot of other games work that way, which ones? There are definitely a ton of card games I haven't played (though I've played most mainstream TCGs), but I'm wondering if they are games that are popular enough to warrant including that information or if it really is just Buddyfight.

I really think you should just remove that part from the wiki.

Anyway, I had a couple things I wanted clarified (pretty sure I know the answers, but want to make sure):

1) Is the Cost 3 Nowi's effect to return a Bond to your hand mandatory?

2) When a Support Fails (such as Tiki flipping up a Cost 1 Tiki Support) do you lose everything from that Support? Like, I know you don't gain the Bonus Attack, but would you also not gain the Support Skill too?

3) Are the Skills from Promoted Minerva and Lon'qu always active (The one's that increase their Atk by 10 for every Sword or Flying Unit, basically is the increase always there even on the opponent's turn)?

4) It doesn't really seem like there's been an exact answer as to what qualifies as a "Class Change", I'm just curious if anyone's found the right answer yet.

Thank you to everyone for taking your time to help others! And thanks to those asking questions too, the more we can get answered, the more we can all understand better.

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1) Yes, and I believe her wiki entry now reflects that.

2) Yes, the support skill fails.

3) Yes, even during the opponent's turn. It is partially why Minerva is a staple.

4) I really think it is just putting a promoted unit on an unpromoted unit. The other actions are either a level up or a level down.

FoW, MtG, and Pokemon has a different mechanic in regards to that. MtG nd Pokemon have you do that as an action in the main phase, rather than a phase in itself. FoW just has you tapping your Ruler to get a card from a separate deck, so it's even more different. In Buddyfight, Weiss Schwarz, Wixoss(?), and Duel Masters(?) all have you putting down a card to gain a resource of some kind and then drawing (though I did make it clear that I am not too sure about Wixoss and Duel Masters).

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Ehh, honestly, that just makes it more confusing for new players because no one is going to just assume you draw a card when you play a Bond.

Just because another card game does that (I've never played a card game where you draw when you play mana, Magic isn't like that, Pokemon isn't like that, WoW TCG wasn't like that, VS System wasn't like that, Force of Will isn't like that, yea, tons of games aren't like that) doesn't mean people will assume the mechanics are the same.

I'm definitely curious, you say a lot of other games work that way, which ones? There are definitely a ton of card games I haven't played (though I've played most mainstream TCGs), but I'm wondering if they are games that are popular enough to warrant including that information or if it really is just Buddyfight.

I really think you should just remove that part from the wiki.

Anyway, I had a couple things I wanted clarified (pretty sure I know the answers, but want to make sure):

1) Is the Cost 3 Nowi's effect to return a Bond to your hand mandatory?

2) When a Support Fails (such as Tiki flipping up a Cost 1 Tiki Support) do you lose everything from that Support? Like, I know you don't gain the Bonus Attack, but would you also not gain the Support Skill too?

3) Are the Skills from Promoted Minerva and Lon'qu always active (The one's that increase their Atk by 10 for every Sword or Flying Unit, basically is the increase always there even on the opponent's turn)?

4) It doesn't really seem like there's been an exact answer as to what qualifies as a "Class Change", I'm just curious if anyone's found the right answer yet.

Thank you to everyone for taking your time to help others! And thanks to those asking questions too, the more we can get answered, the more we can all understand better.

4) I already answered that two posts before yours. It is really just simply putting a promoted unit on top of an existing unit(DOESN'T MATTER IF THIS UNIT IS UNPROMOTED OR PROMOTED) with the same unit name on the battlefield. You only have to pay the Class Change Cost to do this.

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So I have a few questions in regards to rulings on Cipher cards.

Marth: In particular, level 1 or promo Marth, if my opponent has say 1 unit in the vanguard and say 2 or 3 in the rear guard, can I use his effect to move the front unit back, and therefore cause all units in the back to March forward? Theoretically turning a "move 1 unit" into a "move all units"? Or can I not use the effect that way if it would cause no units to be at the front guard?

Inigo: In regards to Sol, if he wins by battle (I'm assuming even if he beats a Lord) he gains +20 until your opponents end phase next turn. If my opponent attacks over Inigo during their next turn and win, does he go back to 60? Or does he still stay as an 80?

Est, Palla, Catria: With Triangle Attack, do all 3 of them need to be promoted variants to access Triangle Attack? Or do I just need 1 promoted variant (the one attacking) and the other 2 unpromoted and still use it?

Navarre: In regards to the level 2 Navarre, his effect states: Unless the support unit is “Caeda” or “Ogma”, this unit’s support will fail. Is that if he's being supported, or if he's the supporter?

E.G. if I attack with Marth and I support into level 2 Navarre, does it not work since Marth's isn't Ogma or Caeda?

Likewise, if I'm attacking with Navarre and I support into Marth, does he just stay a 70 because he's not Ogma or Caeda?

Promotion: firstly, just to double check, I can promote units the turn I play them provides I have enough Bonds right? (E.G. I can play level 1 Sumia and then immediately promote into level 3 Sumia provided I have 3 bonds)

If this is the case can you do multiple class changes in the one turn on the same unit? could I for example play level 1 Marth, immediately promote him to level 4 Marth, draw a card and then play a level 1, use his effect to move a unit from my opponents backline, then promote him to level 5 Marth, draw a card then make all allies +30 till the end of the turn?

Will probably never really happen unless a game somehow goes on long enough for me to have 9 Bonds, but still. Maybe promote and then demote in a turn.

And finally I just want to double check if a card (Say promotion Inigo) is supported by himself (another promotion Inigo of the same name) the support doesn't work at all?

If that's so, can promotion Inigo be supported by standard Inigo?

Can Masked Marth support Marth AND Lucina? Can you choose?

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I'm not exactly sure about this, but someone will clarify it hopefully.

Marth: In particular, level 1 or promo Marth, if my opponent has say 1 unit in the vanguard and say 2 or 3 in the rear guard, can I use his effect to move the front unit back, and therefore cause all units in the back to March forward? Theoretically turning a "move 1 unit" into a "move all units"? Or can I not use the effect that way if it would cause no units to be at the front guard?

I'm pretty sure forced march would occur and bring everything up since its your turn.

Inigo: In regards to Sol, if he wins by battle (I'm assuming even if he beats a Lord) he gains +20 until your opponents end phase next turn. If my opponent attacks over Inigo during their next turn and win, does he go back to 60? Or does he still stay as an 80?

Inigo's effect still works if he beats a Lord, still defeating an enemy.

If your opponent attacks over Inigo, he'll still be 80 because his effect states that its +20 until the end of that turn.

Est, Palla, Catria: With Triangle Attack, do all 3 of them need to be promoted variants to access Triangle Attack? Or do I just need 1 promoted variant (the one attacking) and the other 2 unpromoted and still use it?

As long as one of them is promoted (the one attacking), I think. Not sure how it works exactly.

Navarre: In regards to the level 2 Navarre, his effect states: Unless the support unit is “Caeda” or “Ogma”, this unit’s support will fail. Is that if he's being supported, or if he's the supporter?

E.G. if I attack with Marth and I support into level 2 Navarre, does it not work since Marth's isn't Ogma or Caeda?
Likewise, if I'm attacking with Navarre and I support into Marth, does he just stay a 70 because he's not Ogma or Caeda?

Pretty sure if you supported into Level 2 Navarre, it would still give you the support bonus.

Promotion: firstly, just to double check, I can promote units the turn I play them provides I have enough Bonds right? (E.G. I can play level 1 Sumia and then immediately promote into level 3 Sumia provided I have 3 bonds)

Yes you can.

If this is the case can you do multiple class changes in the one turn on the same unit? could I for example play level 1 Marth, immediately promote him to level 4 Marth, draw a card and then play a level 1, use his effect to move a unit from my opponents backline, then promote him to level 5 Marth, draw a card then make all allies +30 till the end of the turn?

Will probably never really happen unless a game somehow goes on long enough for me to have 9 Bonds, but still. Maybe promote and then demote in a turn.

I think you can. Not sure. Pretty sure you can though.

And finally I just want to double check if a card (Say promotion Inigo) is supported by himself (another promotion Inigo of the same name) the support doesn't work at all?

If that's so, can promotion Inigo be supported by standard Inigo?
Can Masked Marth support Marth AND Lucina? Can you choose?

A character cannot support themselves, so Inigo fails the support with himself, even if the card is not the same name, it is still the same character.

Lucina (the level 1 one) fails the support with Marth and herself, since she counts as Marth as well.

Edited by TheVinceKnight
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Those answers are all correct.

The only real sequencing problem in this game is the split between Deployment and Action phases. If your dude has an AUTO effect that activates in the Deployment phase, you're free to do stuff in whatever order you want.

Also of note is that you CAN cause yourself to Forced March as well, but it's never useful since units are tapped when it happens.

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So Masked Marth counts as both Lucina AND Marth at the same time? That's interesting.

Thanks for the answers though, Cipher is really, really awesome ahaha.

That's interesting that your units tap if you force March them yourself too... So I can't have 4 units in the back, move my 1 vanguard unit back, move all units forward and then attack. Makes sense I guess.

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1) Yes, and I believe her wiki entry now reflects that.

2) Yes, the support skill fails.

3) Yes, even during the opponent's turn. It is partially why Minerva is a staple.

4) I really think it is just putting a promoted unit on an unpromoted unit. The other actions are either a level up or a level down.

FoW, MtG, and Pokemon has a different mechanic in regards to that. MtG nd Pokemon have you do that as an action in the main phase, rather than a phase in itself. FoW just has you tapping your Ruler to get a card from a separate deck, so it's even more different. In Buddyfight, Weiss Schwarz, Wixoss(?), and Duel Masters(?) all have you putting down a card to gain a resource of some kind and then drawing (though I did make it clear that I am not too sure about Wixoss and Duel Masters).

Thanks for answers. As for #1, I wasn't looking at the Wiki, but the Proxy Cutouts that were posted in another thread, many of them contain errors such as the Nowi one.

Haven't played Kaijudo, but the original Duel Masters did not have you draw a card when you placed down Mana.

I don't even see why you brought up Weiss Schwarz. You get Stock in that game by Attacking. When you Clock a card, you're damaging yourself in order to draw 2 Cards.

As for the other card games, just because it's not specifically called the "Mana Phase" doesn't make it any different.

Just googled it, from the Kaijudo rulebook:

"

Mana phase

.

You may charge your mana by putting one card from your hand into your mana zone.

You don’t have to do this if you don’t want to. Ignore the abilities of cards in your

mana zone; you only tap them to summon creatures and cast spells.

"

Clearly it's the phase itself and yet it works just the same as pretty much every standard card game except Buddyfight. I don't know anything about Wixoss (but even you say you're not sure on that one either, and you're wrong about Weiss Schwarz), but even if it was the same, that's 2 card games that play the way you state, and that is not enough IMO to add such a confusing line that has already lead players astray and forced them to ask about it here.

(Edit: Read the rules of Wixoss and you don't draw a card when you place a card in your Enerzone, which is like the Mana/Resource of that game)

Really, it's doing more harm than good. As I said before, most people will not just assume on their own that you get to draw a card just because you placed a card down for your resource.

Adding in that you don't get to draw really just makes people assume that you mean they have to skip their draw step and they probably think that's insanely stupid (which it would be).

Anyway, it's not a big deal if a lot of people aren't going to the Wiki for the rules. But we've already had a few people in here ask about it, so it's definitely causing confusion.

Edited by CloudLink
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Our current debate is about whether Tharja can be activated if the opponent does not have the required amount of hand.

"Your opponent must choose 2 cards from their hand and discard them."

It isn't a 'must' to choose exactly 2 cards or 3 cards(if she CC-ed). In the case that your opponent has less than the stated number of cards in hand then he/she simply discards his/her whole hand into the discard pile. This is already answered in the official FAQ Q.29 for the card.

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Yes, any actions besides Deploying can be performed in the Action Phase, in any order.

Deploying is done in the Deployment Phase, which is just before the Action Phase. Otherwise, yes it can be any order, but note abilities like cost 1 Marth that need to be the first action in that phase.

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