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Mekalygie

Why so much hate?

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The surface story will make enough sense, but the why behind several important characters and moments will not. Some reasons appeared in Hoshido, but the rest seemed to be saved for the third path. : (

Hmm.. I see. That's indeed dissappointing :(. Thanks for the info though!

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The surface story will make enough sense, but the why behind several important characters and moments will not. Some reasons appeared in Hoshido, but the rest seemed to be saved for the third path. : (

I wonder if that will change much for the localization.

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I wonder if that will change much for the localization.

The negative side of me makes me assume they will push for as many sales of DLC as possible rather than placing fan pleasure first. : \ And not really change the overall plot much as that would change too much of the original content.

The positive side of me thinks they can make the characters written better, and if they did manage to care about fans and story satisfaction, that they may bleed things from other playthroughs into these paths. But with the limited amount of text space and such, it would be a steep battle to do.

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Of course, obviously the incentive to sell DLC is there, I won't deny that, but as a counterpoint I might also point out the following:

While narratively speaking missing information is a bad thing generally speaking (and thus problematic for a game), in a more real-life like scenario you often will end up missing information that you might have learned if you had taken the other road.

So to me, to an extent, it makes perfect sense that in a more "realistic" view of events (not that the game, being fantasy, is truly realistic) that there would be a good amount of missing information as stuff that you [as people undergoing the events of the game] legitimately missed out on the opportunity to learn by going down the other route.

The problem is that since generally video game story telling is not realistic storytelling, this missing information is problematic as we have the reasonable expectation that such information will be provided to us in the game.

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Of course, obviously the incentive to sell DLC is there, I won't deny that, but as a counterpoint I might also point out the following:

While narratively speaking missing information is a bad thing generally speaking (and thus problematic for a game), in a more real-life like scenario you often will end up missing information that you might have learned if you had taken the other road.

So to me, to an extent, it makes perfect sense that in a more "realistic" view of events (not that the game, being fantasy, is truly realistic) that there would be a good amount of missing information as stuff that you [as people undergoing the events of the game] legitimately missed out on the opportunity to learn by going down the other route.

The problem is that since generally video game story telling is not realistic storytelling, this missing information is problematic as we have the reasonable expectation that such information will be provided to us in the game.

Thank you for the thoughtful post. I agree that the meta-theme presented here is valid, but certainly the wrong form of media. Another way this would be okay is if both paths were in the same game, because then it is a matter of simply viewing the other path to get your information, free of a moneywall in the way.

Worse, in this case, there are two moneywalls, and the problem is if Hoshido and the third route give all the information...then what is the point of Nohr? That is another fundamental problem that is being addressed. This is all to the player, but it makes sense that viewing the events may not give away this and that.

If you start on Nohr, you lose out the most in story. If you start on Hoshido you only need the third path to get the rest. I like how you addressed both sides though, so thank you for that. : )

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Thank you for the thoughtful post. I agree that the meta-theme presented here is valid, but certainly the wrong form of media. Another way this would be okay is if both paths were in the same game, because then it is a matter of simply viewing the other path to get your information, free of a moneywall in the way.

I really wish they would have had all 3 paths on one cartridge. I remember being so pissed when they first announced the separate paths, not from a money perspective, but from a experience one. I was entirely okay with buying the limited edition too, in order to get the true experience, but the damn thing sold out in like one hour or something. Damn it Nintendo/IS, if you're going to lock content to another game then at least make more of the definitive edition of said game so people can choose for themselves.

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And a lot of us have played through the game and offer criticism because there is plenty to talk about and things that could have been done far better. Most people don't mention the good things or the stuff they're neutral towards in threads meant for serious discussion. I wouldn't start talking about how amazing the gameplay is in the Soleil/Male Kamui thread because it's completely irrelevant.

I know the Fire Emblem fanbase has a lot of problems, especially with those who seem to take offense at how someone else enjoys the game, but a lot of the criticism I have seen so far has been valid.

Of course, then there are the guys who keep talking about how waifus killed Fire Emblem, but you can just safely ignore those people.

I don't mind valid criticism. In fact they are good for discussion. The problem I've seen so far is how some people still focused on the tired subject of fanservice that it still managed to outnumber the legit criticism.

Also on the other side, just because the game received criticism that doesn't mean the game is wholly bad and wouldn't be enjoyable. The definition of flawed gem exist, so don't translate criticism as hate.

It isn't that hard really to distinguish valid criticism with (concern) trolling one.

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Look up the definition of incest.

It's incest.

The game give you this option, go ahead IF you want. :)

"Oh it's so wrong!~ Sorry!!!~" and marry with any other character, theres a lot of them.

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I feel as if the hate on a lot of the controversial content is overblown, but I also fear that it may arouse the sleeping beast that is the Anita S./P. Robertson duo of "divinity", AKA the Morality Police. Hired by the Fuhrer of Morality, Jesus K. Khrist Himself.

Basically, the way peeps are blowing this up, I'm expecting the SJWs will nuke this, and nuke it hard. Same with the goddamned evangelical morality cops.

However, askin' peeps to calm the hell down before they wreck the whole franchise is kinda moot at this point. There's no way in hell it's happening without some god-forsaken miracle - and the odds of that happening are 2,700 to 1.

The game's triggered a real sore in American prudism - and it's worse because FE comes from the hallmark of video game companies, the legendary Nintendo itself. They're gonna be wondering where their censor swords were when this was being conceptualized.

IMO, yeah it's cringe worthy, but people blow stuff out of proportion all the time. I've seen worse, trust me (don't ask, just trust me).

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I bought the dlc for Awakening but I really don't think I'll buy much if any dlc for Fates.

Awakening seemed genuine with the dlc while Fates isn't. What with the pay wall for chapter 6 choice and needing third path to get the truth to the base story.

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I really wish they would have had all 3 paths on one cartridge. I remember being so pissed when they first announced the separate paths, not from a money perspective, but from a experience one. I was entirely okay with buying the limited edition too, in order to get the true experience, but the damn thing sold out in like one hour or something. Damn it Nintendo/IS, if you're going to lock content to another game then at least make more of the definitive edition of said game so people can choose for themselves.

Yes, if all paths were available in one it would certainly make removing the story from one path and putting it in another a bit more bearable. With the separate system a more complete sort of thing may have been better.

But who am I to say? They're the experts. : (

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At least they're giving us campaigns that are (mostly) different….

By all means, I'm not keen on the whole version split either from a convenience standpoint and the fact that some people may end up missing key information from the other routes, but I'm more than happy to be getting lots of new maps to battle on.

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Of course, obviously the incentive to sell DLC is there, I won't deny that, but as a counterpoint I might also point out the following:

While narratively speaking missing information is a bad thing generally speaking (and thus problematic for a game), in a more real-life like scenario you often will end up missing information that you might have learned if you had taken the other road.

So to me, to an extent, it makes perfect sense that in a more "realistic" view of events (not that the game, being fantasy, is truly realistic) that there would be a good amount of missing information as stuff that you [as people undergoing the events of the game] legitimately missed out on the opportunity to learn by going down the other route.

The problem is that since generally video game story telling is not realistic storytelling, this missing information is problematic as we have the reasonable expectation that such information will be provided to us in the game.

That's fine, but the problem therein lies that the routes should not have been split to begin with.

The DLC policy is the problem, not the you don't learn everything in each route-- the problem is that the routes are all costs/paywalls.

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People usually don't post praise, but are more inclined to complain about a product.

I haven't played the game, but I, personally, am thrilled about using all of the added features. I hope they don't cut content either.

If a game never changes, its appeal declines over time. Fates is changing, which is in favor to some and distaste to others. I don't understand people when they say it's not Fire Emblem anymore when they add features rather than taking them away. It's merely giving more ways to play the game. The gameplay, which makes Fire Emblem what it is, has never changed.. but I do hope it has more challenging maps than Awakening.

The developers can't be blamed for taking the feature that ultimately saved the franchise and expanding upon it. I think Fates will gain more players than it will lose.

Don't let someone else's grumpiness rub off on you. :)

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A disgrunted minority is always louder than the agreeing majority. It's common human behavior. You're far more likely to complain about a discomfort than praise what feels good, unless you're like tipping or something.

Buy dinner.

Good: Yum, that was good. Let's order from there again next time.

Bad: Sues restaurant, yell at manager, RKO owner.

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I've posted this elsewhere, but I think another thing factoring into all of this is time. We only heard this game was coming in January. We only have had real information about it since early April. Thus, we've only had three months as a fanbase to parse and understand all the stuff we learned about the game. In addition, during those three months, we've been subjected to a constant stream of new information. As a result, we've been in constant hype mode without any time to really chill, process things or cool down expectations.

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I think it's hilarious that this game has so much fanservice. Awakening bashers were all like "giv me muh peg knights wit pants bck plx", then they give us characters who look like they're dressed for a hentai manga... XD

They really should've gone all the way in and let us rub other "parts" of our sex dolls, though. Screw the US and its shitty ESRB.

At this rate, easy mode is not much more than a glorified harem VN. :X Which is not a bad thing at all...

Edited by Cerberus87

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People could be more positive about the game rather than complaining, but its easy to dwell on something the game does poorly and take for granted anything it does correctly. Just my opinion though. I hope the english version is done well and most of the complaints die down by then. Of course, there will be complaints about the english version too though.

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I think you're making stuff up, or you don't seem to realize Peg Knights neever had pants....

But the revealing legs of the Awakening ladies "were" a point of discussion and comparison with a supposedly more "tasteful" time when the FE ladies wore pants (probably because Sully also doesn't wear them, along with the pegasus girls). Just do some digging 'round the community and you'll see.

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But the revealing legs of the Awakening ladies "were" a point of discussion and comparison with a supposedly more "tasteful" time when the FE ladies wore pants (probably because Sully also doesn't wear them, along with the pegasus girls). Just do some digging 'round the community and you'll see.

I think those laments more originate from the way the characters are framed. Like, yeah pants were rare for female character but there is a difference between visible legs and visible panties.

People may have had short skirts or less that would have made it extremely easy to show their underwear and I always thought a lot of those looked didn't look very good... but I have to admit that this just emphasizes how the series avoided these kind of camera angles, since they somehow never actually ended being visible, both in the artwork and during battle.

And while pants were never that much of a popular wardrobe choice for female characters, armored classes like Cavaliers, Armors and Dragon Knights, would at least usually wear them. And even those who did not like Vaida (Edit: Wait, Vaida is not wearing more armor then a Pegasus Knight anyway, so let's go with...) Miledy, they would at least not wear a thong as the likes of Great Knights in Awakening do, or at least as far as we know because like I said, there is a difference in how the characters are framed.

Btw, even Pegasus Knights were at least wearing tights in Jugdral, as did Falcon Knights and their promotions in Tellius. I doubt that helps much when riding but it's at least easier on the eye.

Edit: While we are on it, is the camera in IF angled to make female Kamui's panties visible when she attacks or in other situations? While it seems ridiculous to do something like this to the freaking player self-insert character herself, I can't imagine why she would have that cut in her tights otherwise.

Edited by BrightBow

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I'd like to address some of those complaints. Feel free to agree or disagree. Just wanted to say what I think of everything after reading so much.

In general:

Like Lawlzor96, Reflex and the others said, vocal minority issue. I would like to point out that there are quite a lot of people liking the game among them. The more you like something, the more you care about it and the more you hope it can fit your ideal.

"Too sexualized":

I wholehearted agree, but it can't be the only characteristic of FE13/14. Let's talk about something else.

"Too perverted":

Part of what made me like Fire Emblem in the first place. It lets me look at a braver side of Nintendo, who otherwise wouldn't publish anything similar (in the Super Famicom era).

"Too generic":

I was inclined to disagree back in Awakening, because having generic story/character archtypes is actually refreshing from the perspective of FE. This time around, I think it's a bit better. They did partially address this by having Shin Kibayashi wrtie the original story.

"Not gay enough":

Again, I wholeheartedly agree. It's still better than the rest of the series, though. Give them a break.

"I have to pay for three games":

Funny, because I only paid about 1.6 (3DS) games' price. More than justified, given its huge amount of contents.

(Insert gender equality rant here):

FE if broke the gender barrier for certain classes, which were otherwise considered definitive characteristics of the series. Fanservice also goes both ways. I cried sexism in Awakening before, but I don't see much of that this time.

"IS never listens to people":

Then why did they aim to have a better story? (Whether they succeeded is another issue.) Why does Nohr have a more traditional, linear gameplay structure? Also, the FE team does have a feedback form.

Thus far, I find the game excellent. Maybe my taste is more inclined towards the Japanese side.

Edited by nocturnal YL

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the incest (which isn't even incest)

Just going to laser focus on this bit :)

But if you grow up seeing someone as your sibling and clearly have that kind of relationship, even to the point that you're still referring to each other as brother/sister during a marriage proposal, then yeah, you're siblings. You may not be getting any three armed, one-eyed babies out of the deal, but it's still a very jarring, unrealistic shift. Like, relatively speaking, that shit happens instantaneously.

But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Show of hands, who here wishes they weren't related to a sibling so they could bang them? C'mon, it's the internet, you're anonymous ^_~

In this case, Hoshido's attraction to Kamui is ironically perfectly natural, they've only just met as adults.

But hey, the game as a whole, I'm totally cool with. My most anticipated next to Zelda Wii U

Edited by NeptuniasBeard

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I remain totally and utterly hyped for this game. I love the path Fire Emblem has taken from Sacred Stones onwards, I loved Awakening dearly and all I see is more of the same in Fates. This won't be to some people's taste, and that's okay; so long as they don't try to convince me I'm wrong in my absolute fangirling bliss of this game.

I won't begrudge them disliking a certain feature / series direction / their own interpretation of how Fates should be.

I'm absolutely fine with difference of opinions, just not the attempt to exalt one view over another. If you are excited about this game, brilliant; be excited! I'll be right there with you, looking forward to mussing lobster lord's hair, or poking blonde Marth's cheeks.

This game is going to be amazing.

Edited by Kiltia

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