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NekoKnight

Parents and the children

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Can someone give me the run down of how the children are...possible in this game?

I know that

The children were born/grew up in some alternate dimension but how exactly did this come to be? Are the Fates characters their real parents or are there alternate dimension versions of them that died? The dialogue seems to indicate that that the children lived out their childhoods with their parents but their parents haven't aged a day. Did the Fates characters run off to a different dimension, consummate their marriages (double ew for Elise and Sakura), spend 15+ years with them before going back the the original world? If so, that could possibly be one of the worst possible story excuses to include children

My mind is just full of wat.

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Answer:

Mysterious creatures attacked the castle, clearly seeming to target the children for some reason. They were brought to grow up in parallel worlds/alternate dimensions that would act as safe havens [somehow]. However, the rates of time passes differently in said dimensions, so when the parents finally recruit them they're all grown up, having lived for years in the alternate worlds

Its pretty stupid and handwaving the issue, but whatever.

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I believe that after a marriage is consummated and a baby is produced the parents become worried for the safety of the babies. As a result, the babies are placed in an alternate dimension where time passes much more quickly than the real world.However, time feels as if it is passing normally. Additionally the parents visited their children occasionally, hence some of the support dialogue. Eventually, the children are somehow transported to the regular world where they fight as adults.(I'm pretty sure that's how it works)

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I believe that after a marriage is consummated and a baby is produced the parents become worried for the safety of the babies. As a result, the babies are placed in an alternate dimension where time passes much more quickly than the real world.However, time feels as if it is passing normally. Additionally the parents visited their children occasionally, hence some of the support dialogue. Eventually, the children are somehow transported to the regular world where they fight as adults.(I'm pretty sure that's how it works)

Some of the paralogues take place in an alternate world, while others are in the main world and the child passed through unannounced (into danger obviously).

What it doesn't explain is how everyone's pregnancy happened really fast and at the same time...

Edited by gayserbeam

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The real problem is the childrens birthdays. Ive been giving it some though and Ive given up trying to figure out how the days pass in the game.

Because you have the units birthdays which happen on that day in the real world which would make you think oh it just lines up with the real world, then I shouldnt be able to recruit this 2nd gen charecter because they shouldnt be born yet. But then you also see actual days pass in game such as in the my castle battles and some level transitions and I have come to the conclusion that time does not work properly in the world of fire emblem

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Who could have anticipated that Fates would tell a less coherent story than Awakening...

Even taking into account occasional visits, the children shouldn't be very close to their parents. If the parents were in the other world long enough to form actual relationships with their children, they should have aged... There are no time skips in the main story (afaik, no spoilers please) but there is no mention of all the pregnancies that would need to happen. This becomes even more convoluted if Kamui marries a second gen character. At least in Awakening, except for Lucina, all characters can assume to have started their families AFTER the main conflict happened rather than during it.

In other words "It's outrealms, I don't gotta explain shit!" -Intelligent Systems

I wonder how much the main story writer was involved in this element of the story. Normally I'd write it off as meaningless fanservice but the existence of some Awakening characters make it seem that this is indeed tied to the main story.

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Who could have anticipated that Fates would tell a less coherent story than Awakening...

Even taking into account occasional visits, the children shouldn't be very close to their parents. If the parents were in the other world long enough to form actual relationships with their children, they should have aged... There are no time skips in the main story (afaik, no spoilers please) but there is no mention of all the pregnancies that would need to happen. This becomes even more convoluted if Kamui marries a second gen character. At least in Awakening, except for Lucina, all characters can assume to have started their families AFTER the main conflict happened rather than during it.

In other words "It's outrealms, I don't gotta explain shit!" -Intelligent Systems

I wonder how much the main story writer was involved in this element of the story. Normally I'd write it off as meaningless fanservice but the existence of some Awakening characters make it seem that this is indeed tied to the main story.

Its rather sad actually but unlike awakening the children and time travel, alternate dimensions aren't important to the plot. So rather than the entire premise of the story being a steaming pile of dung only part of the story is a mess of alternate dimension shenanigans

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Everything will be explained in the next game! Fire Emblem: Kodomo. You will be able to import your save data from Fates and the parents will travel in the time and space to save their kids from the evil. Just wait!

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Even taking into ACCOUNTarrow-10x10.png occasional visits, the children shouldn't be very close to their parent

They aren't. Nearly every interaction between the kids and the parents is tinged with the fact that the kids REALLY don't like that the parents left them in there with just the retainers. That, or they all have massive complexes over the fact that they saw the parents so rarely... Strangely, the Hoshido children in generalarrow-10x10.png seemed to have come out of the whole thing okay. The Nohr children are all kinds of damaged.

Of course, again, the horrible thing is that the children aren't all recruited at the same time, so you have one couple putting their child in, and the child comes out, "Why did you do that to me?!?!" The next couple completely ignores this and puts their baby in.... and so on.

Edited by Sky Soldier

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Its rather sad actually but unlike awakening the children and time travel, alternate dimensions aren't important to the plot. So rather than the entire premise of the story being a steaming pile of dung only part of the story is a mess of alternate dimension shenanigans

Hm, it's a little subjective. You might not like stories with time travel but it made sense, at least (barring a second gen Morgan). Fates handling of children is "...it's best not to think too hard about it" which is never a good sign for competent storytelling.

They aren't. Nearly every interaction between the kids and the parents is tinged with the fact that the kids REALLY don't like that the parents left them in there with just the retainers. That, or they all have massive complexes over the fact that they saw the parents so rarely... Strangely, the Hoshido children in generalarrow-10x10.png seemed to have come out of the whole thing okay. The Nohr children are all kinds of damaged.

Of course, again, the horrible thing is that the children aren't all recruited at the same time, so you have one couple putting their child in, and the child comes out, "Why did you do that to me?!?!" The next couple completely ignores this and puts their baby in.... and so on.

I think the biggest problem is "Why did you have children at all if you didn't want to be present for the most important portion of their lives." It makes the Fates characters seem like total jerks who couldn't keep it in their pants long enough to wait for the war to end.

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Hm, it's a little subjective. You might not like stories with time travel but it made sense, at least (barring a second gen Morgan). Fates handling of children is "...it's best not to think too hard about it" which is never a good sign for competent storytelling.

I think the biggest problem is "Why did you have children at all if you didn't want to be present for the most important portion of their lives." It makes the Fates characters seem like total jerks who couldn't keep it in their pants long enough to wait for the war to end.

I'm fine with stories with time travel stories but they should not be in my fantasy stories

anyway the main problem was that the entire plot of awakening was a paradox, If lucina came from the future to change the past then she would never have come back once she corrected the future so she never would have corrected the future. and If your going to give me the multiverse explenation then that calls into question grimas motives, as he says that he went back in time with the children to stop them from changing the past and erasing him from existence. But if the multiverse theory is being used then grima even if the past was changed the specific future he is in would still exist and he could still rampage as much as he pleased. So it made no sence for him to weaken to follow the children into the past

Either way you look at it awakenings time travel was not though out properly

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I'm fine with stories with time travel stories but they should not be in my fantasy stories

anyway the main problem was that the entire plot of awakening was a paradox, If lucina came from the future to change the past then she would never have come back once she corrected the future so she never would have corrected the future. and If your going to give me the multiverse explenation then that calls into question grimas motives, as he says that he went back in time with the children to stop them from changing the past and erasing him from existence. But if the multiverse theory is being used then grima even if the past was changed the specific future he is in would still exist and he could still rampage as much as he pleased. So it made no sence for him to weaken to follow the children into the past

Either way you look at it awakenings time travel was not though out properly

Hm, good point, then again most time-travel stories run into problems with paradoxes. Any "go back in time to save the world" story invalidates itself without a multiverse and with a multiverse the question of "what happened to the other time lines" often goes unaddressed.

I am a little happy that the children bullshit is removed from the story, but I'm of the opinion that if you can't do something well, you shouldn't do it at all (as far as adding game content is concerned). Marriage and children was definitely a weakness for Fates' writing.

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I have issues with a number of things in Fates/If...

But eh, the shenanigans behind how marriage and children can work isn't as big of an issue for me.

[spoiler=How the chidlren work]http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NarniaTime

...at least it's a different gimmick from Awakening somewhat.

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I think the biggest problem is "Why did you have children at all if you didn't want to be present for the most important portion of their lives." It makes the Fates characters seem like total jerks who couldn't keep it in their pants long enough to wait for the war to end.

Aw geez, never even realised this. Regular ol' time travel would've solved this, too.

​Really though, children shouldn't have even been a thing again. All it does is introduce a huge degree of unnecessary minmaxing whilst ruining practically every parent S-rank, all for a bunch of poorly implemented derivative characters when there could've been a set of brand new stand-alone characters instead.

Edit; Their implementation also raises some very concerning questions with child characters like Elise or Midoriko. There's no sizeable amount of time passing between marriage and pregnancy, which means...yeah.

​I miss when marriage was an epilogue thing.

​Also, as an aside, an FE4-style timeskip would've fit the 'consequences of decisions' theme of Fates perfectly.

Edited by Twylis

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Aw geez, never even realised this. Regular ol' time travel would've solved this, too.

​Really though, children shouldn't have even been a thing again. All it does is introduce a huge degree of unnecessary minmaxing whilst ruining practically every parent S-rank, all for a bunch of poorly implemented derivative characters when there could've been a set of brand new stand-alone characters instead.

Edit; Their implementation also raises some very concerning questions with child characters like Elise or Midoriko. There's no sizeable amount of time passing between marriage and pregnancy, which means...yeah.

​I miss when marriage was an epilogue thing.

​Also, as an aside, an FE4-style timeskip would've fit the 'consequences of decisions' theme of Fates perfectly.

I think they don't want to do a FE4 style time skip because players wouldn't like losing access to half the cast partway through the game and aging up characters would be too much of a hassle or players wouldn't want old versions of their beloved youngsters. If they had to use time travel again, I'd prefer they do a "travel forward" in the style of Ocarina of Time minus the aging part.

Either way, we still have the icky implication that the child characters were impregnated at a young age.

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