Class Changing and Inheritance Thread

[Dalyzor]

Really the only way is for Camila or Belka to mother Velour and for Velour to either marry the Avatar or a M!Kanna or A+ F!Kanna with Ninja as a subclass.

Also, Flannel could marry Rinka and Rinka could pass down Snake Venom.Though Rinka would have to reclass and grind for it since Rinka passes down Oni instead of Ninja.The if you dod that Velour would have to marry Lutz, The Avatar, M!Kanna, or A+ Kanna with Wyvern Rider subclass.

Okay, thanks. I think it'd be best to marry Flannel with Camilla, because of much better mods and the fact that I was going to make Ninja my subclass anyway in IK. Probably marry Kaze as well to get Astra and Swordfaire. Im still planning for my teams in all the routes, if I even get all the routes when the time comes, so maybe I'll post a complete list (again) when I finish.

[Leif]

So I heard that Arthur gets Outlaw from A+ing Flannel.

Odin theoretically gets nothing from Hinata and Leo since he already has Dark Mage and Samurai.

Looking at class analogues, would Odin get Mercenary from Hinata and Spellcaster from Leo?

[Thor Odinson]

Since it seems like the characters with non-transferrable classes have a special inbuilt class like Flannel's Outlaw and Aqua's Rod Knight, I wonder what Nishiki x Orochi comes out to be for Orochi and Mozume x Takumi for Takumi.

[gayserbeam]

So I heard that Arthur gets Outlaw from A+ing Flannel.

Odin theoretically gets nothing from Hinata and Leo since he already has Dark Mage and Samurai.

Looking at class analogues, would Odin get Mercenary from Hinata and Spellcaster from Leo?

Odin just gets Samurai from Hinata, even though he has it. Analogues only come into play if the other unit has no class to give you aside from your own Primary Class. A good example is the aforementioned Flannel × Arthur. Flannel just gets Fighter from the Buddy Seal, even though he already has it as his Secondary Class. But Arthur gets Outlaw from Flannel, an analogue to Garou, because Fighter is his Primary Class.

The only time analogue classes come into play would be:

1) the characters have the exact same Primary and Secondary class

2) one character has a class that cannot be transferred, and their second class is the same as the other character's Primary Class

Since there seem to be no cases of the first situation, analogues only apply to Kamui, Kanna, Nishiki, Flannel, Aqua and Mozume.

EDIT: and Odin gets Rod Knight from Leo, his Secondary.

Edited August 8, 2015 by gayserbeam

[Azz]

What does Tsukuyomi get from Nishiki then?

[lysander]

What does Tsukuyomi get from Nishiki then?

My blind guess would be priest. Flannel's personal skill and Outlaw make sense together the same way Nishiki's and priest do, as well as Azura and Rod Knight. Definitely want to see confirmation.

[charlesbarkley]

Supposedly Tsukuyomi gets Herb Merchant from Nishiki

[AstraSage]

My blind guess would be priest. Flannel's personal skill and Outlaw make sense together the same way Nishiki's and priest do, as well as Azura and Rod Knight. Definitely want to see confirmation.

I kinda hope it wouldn't be the case (even though the reasoning has its merits) and Nishiki gave Tsukuyomi/Orochi another Class Tree, if only because it would let me get away simulating Marriage Seal Tree Additions with simpler logic queries: Otherwise I'd have to look for another way to represent the case of the Healer-Avatar passing the Analogue Class of the wrong gender on a Overlap (which the game catches and blocks the Avatar's Spouse from using Marriage Seals)...

[Folt]

Supposedly Tsukuyomi gets Herb Merchant from Nishiki

So the hypothetical class sets for the special class peeps (with the "emergency" class trees in parentheses) would be:

Aqua: Singer, Pegasus Warrior (Rod Knight)

Nishiki: Kitsune, Spellcaster (Herb Merchant)

Flannel: Garou, Fighter (Outlaw)

Right?

[Blue Sun]

Did anyone notice how Revenant Knight Belka looks almost exactly the same as she does when she's a Wyvern Rider? The only difference is that Belka's tattered cloak is blue instead of purple (and its missing a sash). I'll link you guys to sleepy-ayano's tumblr so that you can see for yourselves:http://sleepy-ayano.tumblr.com/tagged/belka

Edited August 8, 2015 by Blue Sun

[GoXDS]

Did anyone notice how Revenant Knight Belka looks almost exactly the same as she does when she's a Wyvern Rider? The only difference is that Belka's tattered cloak is blue instead of purple (and its missing a sash). I'll link you guys to sleepy-ayano's tumblr so that you can see for yourselves:http://sleepy-ayano.tumblr.com/tagged/belka

(omg the background music, yesssssss)

yea, doesn't seem too different. hard to spot differences without side by side comparison. most of the difference is probably in the Wyvern

[Leif]

Man, lots of these A+ supports seem absolutely useless then.

What would Jakob get from A+ing with Gunter or Silas? He would get nothing right? Felicia with Flora?

Also what about Shigure and Foleo?

Edited August 8, 2015 by Leif

[Blue Sun]

(omg the background music, yesssssss)

yea, doesn't seem too different. hard to spot differences without side by side comparison. most of the difference is probably in the Wyvern

That's literally where the majority of the differences are, the wyvern itself. Belka herself doesn't even look like the standard wyvern rider either.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Blue Sun

[Thor Odinson]

That's literally where the majority of the differences are, the wyvern itself. Belka herself doesn't even look like the standard wyvern rider either.

IIRC in one of the supports (or possibly some other text) Belka says she's using Camilla's old armor

I don't remember which one, though.

[GoXDS]

IIRC in one of the supports (or possibly some other text) Belka says she's using Camilla's old armor

I don't remember which one, though.

she fits?! o_o then again, I did realize she's not actually that small herself before when I was trying to check for armor differences

[Thor Odinson]

she fits?! o_o then again, I did realize she's not actually that small herself before when I was trying to check for armor differences

It belonged to a much younger Camilla who presumably has outgrown it.

[gayserbeam]

Man, lots of these A+ supports seem absolutely useless then.

What would Jakob get from A+ing with Gunter or Silas? He would get nothing right? Felicia with Flora?

Also what about Shigure and Foleo?

Exactly what you think. When Jakob would get Cavalier (which he has), Shigure would get Rod Knight (which he has) and Felicia would get Dark Mage (Flora's Secondary). The rules are:

1) If the user's Primary Class is different than the Spouse/Buddy's Primary Class, then the Marriage/Buddy Seal will reclass them to that class, even if the user has that class as a Secondary class set already .

Example: Sakura marries Tsubaki, Sakura uses a Marriage Seal, she can reclass to Pegasus Warrior.

2) If the user’s Primary Class is the same as the Spouse/Buddy's Primary Class, the Marriage/Buddy Seal will reclass them to the Spouse/Buddy's Secondary Class.

Example: Belka has A+ with Camilla, Berka uses a Buddy Seal, she can reclass to Dark Mage.

3) If the user is married or buddied with a unit who has a unlearnable class, they will receive their Secondary Class.

Example: Hinata has an A+ with Nishiki, Hinata can not learn Fox Spirit, Hinata uses a Buddy Seal, he can reclass to Spellcaster.

4) If the user is married or buddied with a unit who has a unlearnable class, and their Primary Class is the same as their Spouse/Buddy's Secondary Class, the user can reclass to an analogue class.

Example: Flannel has an A+ with Arthur, Arthur uses a Buddy Seal, he gets to reclass to Outlaw.

So, yes, sometimes Buddy Seals and Marriage Seals can end up worthless if you are not careful! For example, if you marry Aqua to Tsubaki and get Aqua and Hinoka to an A+ Support, Aqua gets nothing out of the deal.

[Carter]

Tested out some Buddy Seal / Marriage Seal pairings to help AstraSage, but I'll post them here too.

Tsukuyomi gets Herb Merchant from Nishiki.

Nishiki gets Spellcaster from Tsukuyomi, as expected.

Takumi also gets Herb Merchant from Mozume.

Mozume gets Bowman from Takumi, as expected.

Well, I guess we can add two Herb Merchants to our army! And also, Flannel gave Arthur a bow class! Coincidence? Harharhar!

[Just call me AL]

Exactly what you think. When Jakob would get Cavalier (which he has), Shigure would get Rod Knight (which he has) and Felicia would get Dark Mage (Flora's Secondary). The rules are:

1) If the user's Primary Class is different than the Spouse/Buddy's Primary Class, then the Marriage/Buddy Seal will reclass them to that class, even if the user has that class as a Secondary class set already .

Example: Sakura marries Tsubaki, Sakura uses a Marriage Seal, she can reclass to Pegasus Warrior.

2) If the user’s Primary Class is the same as the Spouse/Buddy's Primary Class, the Marriage/Buddy Seal will reclass them to the Spouse/Buddy's Secondary Class.

Example: Belka has A+ with Camilla, Berka uses a Buddy Seal, she can reclass to Dark Mage.

3) If the user is married or buddied with a unit who has a unlearnable class, they will receive their Secondary Class.

Example: Hinata has an A+ with Nishiki, Hinata can not learn Fox Spirit, Hinata uses a Buddy Seal, he can reclass to Spellcaster.

4) If the user is married or buddied with a unit who has a unlearnable class, and their Primary Class is the same as their Spouse/Buddy's Secondary Class, the user can reclass to an analogue class.

Example: Flannel has an A+ with Arthur, Arthur uses a Buddy Seal, he gets to reclass to Outlaw.

So, yes, sometimes Buddy Seals and Marriage Seals can end up worthless if you are not careful! For example, if you marry Aqua to Tsubaki and get Aqua and Hinoka to an A+ Support, Aqua gets nothing out of the deal.

That seems kinda odd, though. I guess it might seem that way to a lack of information. But I would have figured that there might have been some check for some overlap, period, within each Buddy/Marriage pair's class sets, granting access to an analogue if there's complete overlap, or whatever base class is in the buddy/spouse's class set that the Seal user doesn't have.

[Blue Sun]

It belonged to a much younger Camilla who presumably has outgrown it.

That makes so much more sense.

[Carter]

Syalla also gets Herb Merchant when using a Buddy Seal with Kinu. Looks like we're getting a bunch of Herb Merchants! Tsukuyomi, Takumi, they're all getting Herb Merchant!

I think the animations are ridiculous though. They look so timid when they fight. It won't be fitting for Anna at all *cry*

[gayserbeam]

Syalla also gets Herb Merchant when using a Buddy Seal with Kinu. Looks like we're getting a bunch of Herb Merchants! Tsukuyomi, Takumi, they're all getting Herb Merchant!

I think the animations are ridiculous though. They look so timid when they fight. It won't be fitting for Anna at all *cry*

The male animations for the class are better. The male Holy Lancer's victory animation has him throwing his lance in the air, turning around, and catching it effortlessly. The male Great Merchant tries the same thing... only to drop his lance on the floor when he tries to catch it. It's so silly, I love it. Sad that there are no natural playable male Great Merchants. Kinu, Anna, Oboro, Takumi, and the all other potential Great Merchants don't fit the personality of the class at all.

It's likely that lack of Merchants that led IS to choose it as the analogue to Fox Spirit. Outlaws are similarly rare.

Edited August 10, 2015 by gayserbeam

[Elite Lord Sigma]

I've added the new information regarding Flannel, Nishiki, and Mozume into the original post. I've decided to use the term "hidden class set" for such situations, as none of these hidden class sets are really analogous to their non-hidden counterparts in the literal sense of the word.

[AstraSage]

Before I said anything, Carter deserves a round of applause: You can't believe what she managed to pull off (Poor Mitama) to get enough data to define patterns.

Now, there's two things to reports:

The first is that in the few cases of Class Overlaps among the Second Generation the Marriage/Buddy Seal Reclassing doesn't actually use the Target's Class Set to do the comparisons but rather something that has the Child's Base Class Tree united to a mirror of the Class Set of their Non-variable Parent: So Matoi will always get Rod Knight from Shigure even when he got the Tree from Jakob, Syalla will always get Herb Merchant from Kinu even when the latter doesn't have the Class Tree herself, and anyone that marries or becomes a buddy of Kanna will end up getting a Faction Parallel if they have Class Overlap that doesn't involve Herb Merchant or a Healer Class.

The other is related to the Kanna Case mentioned above: If you play with a Female Avatar and want to marry any of the Healer guys (& Yukimura), Don't Match her Secondary with Their Bases. Her Kanna won't get an Third Class Tree. Likewise, if Kanna of either gender received from the Avatar the same Secondary as the Base Class Tree for Deere, Foleo, Midoriko or Mitama, the latter ones won't be able to use the Marriage/Buddy Seals.

The Fate Class Inheritance is updated to a 95% Completion, with the only incognito to unravel being which Class Tree do Yuugiri, Crimson and Anna (whenever she gets released) pass to Kanna as their Secondary in the case of a Class Overlap:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Xd0pBZ4oQtk7o3fBXUcCGCXc8tQ3BFSx4CcknOkPKTc/edit?usp=sharing

[Thor Odinson]

I know you can't A+ Kanna for their secondary if Kanna's the sibling but

Is that still the case for, say, Shinonome since he has a natural A+ possibility with Kanna without any relations to him? Or does the sibling relationship override his ability to A+?