Would you have been happier if all three routes were one game? (spoilers)

[ReaperGuardian]

That's a pretty bad example.

Hmm.. Perhaps I should've said it a bit differently. My point was that in one game, you see certain events happen in the story, which in turn affects characters. Often, but not always, they develop. However in Fates, at least based on what I have heard, you see that a character has motives or that certain events have happened which affected them, but how they develop or why the story progressed that way is not (fully) explained because you need the other path to see / learn that. With other path I mean not only the other version, but also the third path.

I should add that I've been trying to avoid as many spoilers as I can, so I can't give you a clear example sadly. I can't discuss the story of Fates at length, however, in other threads that is probably well done.

I hope you understand what I mean, though.

About Awakening, regardless if its story is good or not, the story had a build-up and a certain "closure". Granted, some things could've been explained better, however that should be discussed on the Awakening forums I think. My point is that Awakening doesn't have another game that fills in other story components and plot holes, as the game stands on its own, how weak the story may be.

From what I hear and understand, this isn't the case with Fates as they need each path to create an understandable and complete narrative. They can't stand out on their own and that is my point. If you wish an example of a game that has (at least in my opinion) a strong story, good lore and a fine narrative, I think Dragon Age Origins is a good example of a game that stands out on its own. You don't need Dragon Age Origins - Awakening (Ha! Such coincedence), or other Dragon Age games, to experience the full story of DA:O, even though DA:A is a great DLC on its own and may actually fill in certain plot-holes of DA:O.

Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance? It had obvious sequel hooks, like for example, Sothe's "parent" figure that he mentions in his supports, and it was searching for that person that he met Ike's group, or the Black Knight and his Goddess blessed armor and weapon that came seemingly out of nowhere, as well as his unexplained ties to Ike's father. There were also a few npcs that were introduced there but had no real role until the sequel.

I think that is a fine example of a game that needed a sequel to complete certain character arcs, although the story may have had closure. I don't know about that though :), haven't completed PoR yet.

Edited July 8, 2015 by ReaperGuardian

[NeonZ]

My point is that Awakening doesn't have another game that fills in other story components and plot holes, as the game stands on its own, how weak the story may be.

From what I hear and understand, this isn't the case with Fates as they need each path to create an understandable and complete narrative. They can't stand out on their own and that is my point.

But each Fates game is a standalone narrative too though. There are some background elements that are only revealed in the third path, but the most important revelations are in the My Castle itself anyway, no need for the 3rd path to learn about those.

The three stories aren't even completely compatible - for example, the aftermatch of a certain event that happens early on, before the split, differs in each story, even though it has nothing to do with Kamui's choice.

[ReaperGuardian]

But each Fates game is a standalone narrative too though. There are some background elements that are only revealed in the third path, but the most important revelations are in the My Castle itself anyway, no need for the 3rd path to learn about those.

The three stories aren't even completely compatible - for example, the aftermatch of a certain event that happens early on, before the split, differs in each story, even though it has nothing to do with Kamui's choice.

I hope that you're right. Don't get me wrong, I believe your words, but I hear controversial points from here at the forums and at other newsproviders, what makes me wary.

I think it is best that I reserve judgement about Fates until I actually play the game myself, so that I can say if both paths stand out on their own or not. It would be so much better if there would be a general consensus, to make this easier, yet that won't ever happen because of opinions :).

Thank you for your insights. I hope for the best.

[astrophys]

Which aftermath varying in a manner unrelated to Kamui choice is this?

So is this kind of like how, by analogy to examples form other SRPGs, Lyon in The Sacred Stones

randomly has a different interaction with the Demon King depending on whether you chose Eirika or Ephraim

, or how Vyce in Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together

randomly undergoes a drastic personality shift to be opposite to the choice you make at Balmamusa, regardless of his character before

.

Is that what you meant when you said the stories weren't compatible?

Edited July 8, 2015 by astrophys

[Fyras4]

It all comes down to choice in the end; obviously people would prefer all three paths in one game to save themselves money.

Could the experience have changed if all three paths had been in one game, who knows...

[NeonZ]

Which aftermath varying in a manner unrelated to Kamui choice is this?

What happens to Gunther after he falls from the bridge in the beginning of the game.

The true nature and power of present Garon also differs in each route.

Edited July 8, 2015 by NeonZ

[Thane]

But each Fates game is a standalone narrative too though. There are some background elements that are only revealed in the third path, but the most important revelations are in the My Castle itself anyway, no need for the 3rd path to learn about those.

The three stories aren't even completely compatible - for example, the aftermatch of a certain event that happens early on, before the split, differs in each story, even though it has nothing to do with Kamui's choice.

Have you actually played the game and read them, or do you get all of your information from somewhere else?

[NeonZ]

Have you actually played the game and read them, or do you get all of your information from somewhere else?

The My Castle texts were all posted in the hype thread a while back. They're ciphered, but the game itself gives the cipher and that was confirmed by people with the game in this forum itself. Here's a post with a translation of most of them, only leaving out Azura's song with the 3 prophecies:

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=54871&page=201#entry3840162

Here's another where people with the game confirm the in-game cipher to read the texts:

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=55316&page=8#entry3860740

Regarding the routes, I've watched full playthroughs of each route and also have the text dump for the 3rd route (I've only read some parts of the last one though).

Edited July 8, 2015 by NeonZ

[Thane]

The My Castle texts were all posted in the hype thread a while back. They're ciphered, but the game itself gives the cipher and that was confirmed by people with the game in this forum itself.

Here's a post with a translation of some of them:

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=54871&page=201#entry3840162

Here's another where people with the game confirm the in-game cipher to read the texts:

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=55316&page=8#entry3860740

Regarding the routes, I've watched full playthroughs of each route and also have the text dump for the 3rd route (I've only read some parts of the last one though).

In short, no, you haven't played the game by yourself.

A lot of people won't even know where those texts are, nor how to decipher them even if they could be bothered. It's idiocy to claim that the two original routes are complete because you can decipher some snippets of what will be revealed in the third path, especially since it completely removes the characters and the context out of the picture. A few of these tidbits are revealed by support conversations, but they have absolutely no effect on the story as a whole, reducing the information to trivia as far as the plot goes.

If this did reveal everything worth knowing about the third path in this manner, it would be just like reading a list of spoilers, which isn't particularly interesting for most people. But then again, you and I seem to have very, very different views on what constitutes as a good story and storytelling.

[NeonZ]

In short, no, you haven't played the game by yourself.

A lot of people won't even know where those texts are, nor how to decipher them even if they could be bothered. It's idiocy to claim that the two original routes are complete because you can decipher some snippets of what will be revealed in the third path, especially since it completely removes the characters and the context out of the picture. A few of these tidbits are revealed by support conversations, but they have absolutely no effect on the story as a whole, reducing the information to trivia as far as the plot goes.

If this did reveal everything worth knowing about the third path in this manner, it would be just like reading a list of spoilers, which isn't particularly interesting for most people. But then again, you and I seem to have very, very different views on what constitutes as a good story and storytelling.

That's the point though. The first two paths have complete stories that don't involve the characters learning that information, yet some important background elements are in the game itself through those coded texts. If you're dedicated enough to want to know more about the background, you probably will learn about those texts, after all. So they aren't keeping necessary information unavailable if people don't buy the third path.

Yes, obviously the third path is a different experience, with those revelations integrated into the main plot... However, Hoshido and Nohr aren't incomplete just because that information is only background for them. They have the information necessary for their own narrative, with those important background elements that don't come to the forefront of their narratives in the coded texts.

That text doesn't deal with the actual events that take place in the 3rd path, only background information and a vague prophecy, but those events are only important for the 3rd path itself, they aren't missing parts from Nohr's and Hoshido's stories.

Edited July 8, 2015 by NeonZ

[ReaperGuardian]

That's the point though. The first two paths have complete stories that don't involve the characters learning that information, yet some important background elements are in the game itself through those coded texts. If you're dedicated enough to want to know more about the background, you probably will learn about those texts, after all. So they aren't keeping necessary information unavailable if people don't buy the third path.

Yes, obviously the third path is a different experience, with those revelations integrated into the main plot... However, Hoshido and Nohr aren't incomplete just because that information is only background for them. They have the information necessary for their own narrative, with those important background elements that don't come to the forefront of their narratives in the coded texts.

That text doesn't deal with the actual events that take place in the 3rd path, only background information and a vague prophecy, but those are only important for the 3rd path itself, they aren't missing parts from Nohr's and Hoshido's stories.

I can't comment in depth to this, as we're going to discuss in-depth story and narrative now. I understand your point, you say that the Nohr and Hoshido version stand out on their own, based of what you've read/ experienced. That's fair enough, as that is your opinion.

I am glad however that, from what I read from your comments, that we agree that a complete game needs to be complete at all parts, not only gameplay but also story-wise and so on. The question if this is true with Fates should perhaps be discussed in a different thread. I think if we continue down this line we derail the thread, yet I'm anxious to know now if this is true Dx.

Do note for your own information that other sources claim otherwise, see for example: https://kantopia.wordpress.com/2015/06/18/fire-emblem-fates-birthright-conquest-famitsu-review-translated/, the last review. Or look down these forums for information. And even then, some things may be taken with a grain of salt.

What my conclusion is, is that if Fates' story is intertwined between the two (or three) paths, and then I mean that they need one another to stand strong instead of standing strong independantly, that they aren't complete games. Harsh words, but that would be the conclusion, correct? Opinions on that may differ, and people are free to disagree with me of course, but this would be how I look at it. And to go back to the original question, then it would've made me happier if all three (and at least two) routes were in one game.

[RPGatWill]

You know what they should have done? Had a special edition with all three paths for the new nintendo 3ds. Just to make everyone who didn't buy one hate themselves.

Joking, by the way. I'm pretty sure they just couldn't' fit all three routes onto the cartridge, which is why they didn't try to, but it also let's them release the third route a little bit after the first two to keep the hype going and I'm sure help them sell more DLC down the line.

At the end of the day, still getting 3 games for the price of 2. I can live with it.