lol

[Emeraldfox]

I'm the sort of gamer who'd much rather play with his favorites and build his skills with them rather than some top tier pick, I hardly pay attention to the meta. I also play games that interest me and usually give them an arbitrary rating of 10/5/S+/five stars/etc. In other words that probably makes me casual trash.

[Yari]

I'm the type of gamer that plays all of the games that look interesting. As long as I have fun while playing I'm fine with it.

[secondworld]

I was replying to Jedi; I totally agree with you on this one.

This is why I think FFX is one of the best in terms of execution. It has all of the dynamics of variable party member turn frequencies with none of the stress over lost time.

Ah, my bad

I do agree with FFX's battle system being one of the best

[Jedi]

You and I have vastly different opinions of an Action RPG done right. Final Fantasy at its core was not built to be an Action RPG (apart from the XIII titles, and even then that's arguable). Tales of [symphonia] was.

I never said ATB made it an Action RPG, kindly stop putting words in my mouth.

It involves more effort from the player, is what I was getting at, instead of having all the time in the world to make your choice, it gives weight to your menu scrolling.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Jedi

[Elieson]

i think Chrono Trigger's ATB is very different from FF5/6's ATB, mainly because with Haste, the ATB fills in about 1/3 of a second on Chrono Trigger's platform, and 99% of the time you know what you want to do anyway

Even in FF5 and FF6, all you wanna do is either mash Attack or cast the same Fire 3 spell as you did last turn or something, exceptions being when you want to/need to heal. Setting your ATB to "wait" within Menus cheats the system a bit, but the urgency of an ATB is nice to have...in early game. Later-early game->, it's just a hinderance because I know what I want to do and I'm already trained past the point of being too low level to need to think.

[secondworld]

i think Chrono Trigger's ATB is very different from FF5/6's ATB, mainly because with Haste, the ATB fills in about 1/3 of a second on Chrono Trigger's platform, and 99% of the time you know what you want to do anyway

Even in FF5 and FF6, all you wanna do is either mash Attack or cast the same Fire 3 spell as you did last turn or something, exceptions being when you want to/need to heal. Setting your ATB to "wait" within Menus cheats the system a bit, but the urgency of an ATB is nice to have...in early game. Later-early game->, it's just a hinderance because I know what I want to do and I'm already trained past the point of being too low level to need to think.

I actually agree with this.

Once again I praise FFIV DS, both for its difficulty in dungeons keeping you thinking on your feet, and for auto-battle for later on in the game.

Edited August 20, 2015 by DavidSW

[Tamarsamar]

I never said ATB made it an Action RPG, kindly stop putting words in my mouth.

You did say that it "prompts faster actions" and encourages you to "think on your feet more." What was meant to be implicit in my reply was "why not play an Action RPG then?"

It involves more effort from the player, is what I was getting at, instead of having all the time in the world to make your choice, it gives weight to your menu scrolling.

Which is precisely why, in my opinion, it is a terrible battle system--this being the opinion that started this whole discussion in the first place. Maybe I like having all the time in the world to think about and make my choices! Maybe that's why I'm playing this genre in the first place! Maybe I just want something I can put down real quick to do something else and then seamlessly pick up right where I left off. Why does my menu scrolling need weight to it? That's not even supposed to be the important part! Just, ugh.

[secondworld]

You did say that it "prompts faster actions" and encourages you to "think on your feet more." What was meant to be implicit in my reply was "why not play an Action RPG then?"

Which is precisely why, in my opinion, it is a terrible battle system--this being the opinion that started this whole discussion in the first place. Maybe I like having all the time in the world to think about and make my choices! Maybe that's why I'm playing this genre in the first place! Maybe I just want something I can put down real quick to do something else and then seamlessly pick up right where I left off. Why does my menu scrolling need weight to it? That's not even supposed to be the important part! Just, ugh.

"I don't like this" =/= "this is objectively terrible"

[Jedi]

I like RPG's that don't have weight to the menus as well, but I feel its part of FF's identity, like I can see where you are coming from on your points honestly. I really do, its just I feel strongly about FF's IV and VI in particular, and a number of the others (I like 10 as well despite what I said earlier).

But its more you called the games terrible, which you are honestly granted the opinion to do, but I find your reasoning a bit flawed in how you are going about bashing them and saying people who are going against you are antagonistic towards you, when in reality its just defense of something we enjoy.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Jedi

[Carmine Sword]

Pretty much this. There are plenty of people who don't have any problems with the ATB system.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Carmine Sword

[Jedi]

Also in terms of more actiony like FF games, Crystal Chronicles and Crisis Core were pretty fun.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Jedi

[Tamarsamar]

I like RPG's that don't have weight to the menus as well, but I feel its part of FF's identity, like I can see where you are coming from on your points honestly. I really do, its just I feel strongly about FF's IV and VI in particular, and a number of the others (I like 10 as well despite what I said earlier).

But its more you called the games terrible, which you are honestly granted the opinion to do, but I find your reasoning a bit flawed in how you are going about bashing them and saying people who are going against you are antagonistic towards you, when in reality its just defense of something we enjoy.

Likewise, I can see what people like about IV and VI, but I just can't subject myself to that again in the same lifetime, especially if VI's ATB is supposed to be faster. And actually, I don't mind you defending those games--what I largely took issue with was when people claimed their problems with the battle system was that it was too slow, of all things! And that even seems to be a popular opinion! I literally can't even!

[Irony]

So wait- the DS version of FFIV was the harder version? :l

....Well, that explains everything then...

[The DanMan]

I'm in the middle of the casual-competitive split; I tend to play solo RPGS and Halo for the lore.

When I think of an action RPG, I think of something like Tales of the Abyss or Kingdom Hearts(first one at least, sequels blur the line between RPG and hack n' slash), where you move around the battle and actively input each attack in real time.

I know this is straying a bit from the topic, but only II was very hack-and-slash like. BBS and 3D had the command deck, which had you select various advanced attacks and magic mid-battle, with each different attack having a re-charge time.

Edited August 21, 2015 by The DanMan

[secondworld]

what I largely took issue with was when people claimed their problems with the battle system was that it was too slow, of all things! And that even seems to be a popular opinion! I literally can't even!

Funny thing, I've seen people not like the ATB much before, but never for being too fast. Not until this whole thing started.

I know this is straying a bit from the topic, but only II was very hack-and-slash like. BBS and 3D had the command deck, which had you select various advanced attacks and magic mid-battle, with each different attack having a re-charge time.

I suppose so

[Espinosa]

So wait- the DS version of FFIV was the harder version? :l

....Well, that explains everything then...

I can't say it is tbqh. The final battle is way easier, and so simple to do at low levels if you learn the right skills.

[secondworld]

I can't say it is tbqh. The final battle is way easier, and so simple to do at low levels if you learn the right skills.

Well yeah the final battle is easy

There is that little 95% of the game though

[Irony]

Well yeah the final battle is easy

There is that little 95% of the game though

...that doesn't make me feel optimistic about completing FFIV...

[Espinosa]

Well, the other 95% of the bosses are also easier, excluding maybe CPU which I don't remember being so tough in the original.

[secondworld]

Bosses aren't where most of the difficulty lies, aside from Golbez(ultimate beginner's trap), Lugae(if you don't know the elixir trick, or don't have any), and the CPU as mentioned.

[Azz]

Well, the other 95% of the bosses are also easier, excluding maybe CPU which I don't remember being so tough in the original.

I am assuming you have not played FFIV DS no augments and no grind.

But anyways the only FF games I like are I, IV and VI but then again the originals were some of the first games I played(Also FF X which is like my favorite game ever).FE beats FF by a long shot.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Azz01

[Espinosa]

Actually, I played a mandatory battles only run, so no grinding could've occurred there. My motivation to play such a run was that playing the game normally was too easy. Aside from a few highlights and a sense of accomplishment at the end, I didn't really get what I wanted from it.

I do agree that augments play a huge role in the remake, and surviving Big Bang would be way harder than it is with Phoenix.

[Erdall]

As long as anybody doesn't consider as a game 'Beyond', is a gamer.

On a more serious note, I just hate cinematic videogames. Too much drama, seriously poor gameplay.

Let a legend voice about this matter: "I don't want to criticize any other designers, but I have to say that many of the people involved in this industry - directors and producers - are trying to make their games more like movies. They are longing to make movies rather than making videogames."

[Zera]

I hate the ATB system in FFIV. Either I have to spend numerous seconds doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING as I wait for bars to fill up, or I can speed it up in options, but then the enemies get more free attacks when it's not their turn. It's a terrible system that combines the weaknesses of turn-based and real-time battles. Indeed, the fact that some peopled like this system blows my mind.

The command deck from KH: BBS is vastly superior. Since the battles are action-based and you can block/dodge, you're never waiting, always making decisions. And if you somehow have your entire deck cooling down at once, you can still perform standard attacks.

[Draco]

the combat system in BBS is really good.

my favorite out of every KH game and maybe every game of its genre ever.