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HTakara82

Once the game is released in the West (Meta Game)

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Yeah my reasoning was mostly grounded in the accessibility problem. Even if connecting to other player's castles online is super easy, you still need to find a team with the exact unit you need with the exact skill you're trying to get, and repeat this process for all of your otherwise unobtainable skills. Maybe in the future there will be some sort of repository where people can get access to literally every possible unit/skill combination, but before that happens, it wouldn't be fair to everyone.

And even if this does become possible, I think some people will still appreciate having another separate meta where not every unit can get access to every possible skill at the same time, and having it coexist with an "anything goes" meta. You might view them as unnecessary rules, but the mindset is similar to why Ubers is not the only meta that people play in competitive Pokemon. Different metas allow different types of strategies to become viable, as long as the rules are well enforced.

The only valid Pokemon metas are... [For current generation]

Anything goes - Exactly what it says on the tin.

Flat Rules - Maison Rules. [blanket Legendary ban]

VGC - Requires Blue Pentagon. Slightly varying Ruleset enforced by the game, mostly the same as Flat [Typically, Blanket Legendary, silly things like "Megakhan" are legal, etc.]. [There's actually a selected feature to get to these.]

Notice, they're all enforced by the game.

Arbitrary rules are pointless and have little impact. Funbro (A griefer build involving Slowbro or Blissey that will force into a unwinnable/unlosable stalemate and force a disconnect for a win for the user) is legal in the real meta, bro.

As far as the "have to find", you can use your own logbook. So do it once...

I for one will be setting up to get every-skill-on-every-unit.

The closest to a restricted meta you'll see is gonna be turning on the Eternal Seals don't work feature...

But Logbook annuls that because the Logbook Trick from Awakening is back and you can buy skills. So Level 20/1 with capped stats and perfect skillsets is/are a thing. They won't have supports, but really support had the Bear Jew come after it with a bat.

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If we did have any kind of meta going for Fire Emblem, i'd prefer it to be accessible. Smogon is basically why I never got into competitive pokemon battling and while I could probably easily make any adjustments in a FE meta, other people may not.

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If we did have any kind of meta going for Fire Emblem, i'd prefer it to be accessible. Smogon is basically why I never got into competitive pokemon battling and while I could probably easily make any adjustments in a FE meta, other people may not.

There will be something of a meta, but again, a meta in a game is just what you see as the most common successful set up. Like Team of Horsemen in Shadow Dragon [which beats Team of Snipers, and loses to team Imhullu.]

The only thing inaccessible in Competitive Pokemon are specific Hidden Powers because those are harder than hell to breed.

Getting a 5-31 1- Dump Stat Pokemon is pretty easy in Gen 6. A tad tedious unless you can get a hold of a 6 IV ditto [but go ask GameFAQs, and don't be so prude as to rejected hacked parent mons.]

The same works for here.

Anything on anything is easy, slightly tedious, but there are and will be accessible things to make it easier.

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Almost no power save usage, so many time in Shadow Dragon online matches there asshole who used action replay to cap his party's stats. Marth 99 str wtf???

Edited by Awakener_

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Almost no power save usage, so many time in Shadow Dragon online matches there asshole who used action replay to cap his party's stats. Marth 99 str wtf???

Well yeah, if anyone is caught cheating, you can just shame them on these boards and no one would wanna battle them again.

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The only valid Pokemon metas are... [For current generation]

Why are Smogon metagames not "valid"? Because they aren't official? They have large followings and some very clear trends.

As far as the "have to find", you can use your own logbook. So do it once...

I for one will be setting up to get every-skill-on-every-unit.

Oh duh. Why didn't I think of this?

It'll be tedious, I guess, but nothing is even half as tedious as Pokemon breeding.

This is the "compare Fire Emblem to Pokemon" thread now.

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Why are Smogon metagames not "valid"? Because they aren't official? They have large followings and some very clear trends.

Smogon uses simulator. Smogon sets work, but Smogon rules isn't the case with cart.

Cart [Read: the actual game] Meta is very different.

Reason is, Smogs can't enforce their silly rules on cart.

Smogon "meta" is just adapted to what silly rules they come up with, and whenever it gets changed by something they hop on the banhammer. Cart meta just has to adapt to strategic change, since it's not going to change the rules ever.

It's gonna basically be the same.

There might be a slight SF meta, but it'll have no impact on the game as a whole-- outside of maybe a few elite players who can come in, kick ass, and cause sweeping changes to the overall-- but silly things like "No Lethality, kk" is never going to fly unless it's proven inferior.

Almost no power save usage, so many time in Shadow Dragon online matches there asshole who used action replay to cap his party's stats. Marth 99 str wtf???

Hacking was far more prevalent on the DS than the 3DS, also, FE's fanbase was significantly smaller back then, so you just ran into more hackers getting their lolz on than actual players.

You're not going to see as many hax.

And no team Imhullu.

Edited by Airship Canon

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Smogon gets a lot of shit for all of the bans it implements, but if this game's PvP ends up coming down to a literal coin flip for every single battle where players hope they don't get Lethality'd (you yourself repeatedly made the point of how imbalanced it was) and the game is no longer fun...well idk, people can decide what to do from there.

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Smogon doesn't run around banning whatever they feel like for the lolz, you know. There's debates, test, and then a voting processes. It's just that Pokemon does a terrible, terrible job at balancing. They're actually a good model to follow, since their bans are mostly decided by the community, believe it or not.

Smogon uses simulator. Smogon sets work, but Smogon rules isn't the case with cart.

Cart [Read: the actual game] Meta is very different.
Reason is, Smogs can't enforce their silly rules on cart.

You know, that simulator they uses does have a anything goes mode. You can run in with a Mega Rayquaza and just destroy anything. But most people on Showdown play OU anyway. Why? They play by Smogon's rules voluntarily.

The reason everyone uses the simulator, and not the cart, is because Pokemon are ridiculously tedious to breed, and it makes finding matchups simple. I probably would of never become as good at competitive Pokemon as I am today if it weren't for Showdown allowing me to instantly make drastic changes to my team.

Fan-made metas are still metas, just as long as enough people agree to play by them.

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Like I've said before, we just need to keep the rules simple that everyone can abide by. We can't just go banning everything all willy nilly, it'll just turn people off to it.

I agree that some play testing is required, but I would ban Lethality. It's no fun and a little to have an instant death move that can kill off a unit right off the bat with no way to really counter it.

Take counter for instance. You can attack a unit from range with bows or magic. If the unit has magic counter as well, then attack with a bow.

This promotes the need for a diverse team.

With lethality, there's no protection against it, because a unit can activate from both up close and afar.

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I agree that some play testing is required, but I would ban Lethality. It's no fun and a little to have an instant death move that can kill off a unit right off the bat with no way to really counter it.

Take counter for instance. You can attack a unit from range with bows or magic. If the unit has magic counter as well, then attack with a bow.

This promotes the need for a diverse team.

With lethality, there's no protection against it, because a unit can activate from both up close and afar.

Yeah I don't think anyone would be against banning lethality lol. It's an extremely clutch move, everyone would just run a full team of Lethalities and break sky combo.

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Miracle (+Sol or something similar) can beat Lethality. Flamboyance incidentally also increases the proc rate of an opposing Miracle.

Edited by Tamarsamar

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If people are going to just run a Lethality + Brave weapon set, then it's massively luck based compared to Sol probably triggering at 50%. But um... Devine Shield... maybe? Lethality doesn't always trigger and I bet people would have weak built units with them. Their isn't a lot of ways to counter. If their using Bows then go close (Unless proximity shot), if their using adjacent range then attack from afar but if their using 1-2 range, then you kinda gotta get rid of 'em in the quickest way. Strong triggers, using Weapon Break skills with Lucky 7 try to avoid it completely.

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I think Lethality is the only thing that should be banned, since it works at all ranges and with all weapons. The only real counter is Miracle, and Priest/ess isn't such a common class in this game.

But I think that skills obtained via Streetpass should remain as a thing. It lets people play with all kinds of different sets, and it makes units that wouldn't be that good usable(like Hisame)

What do you think about Defensive Formation?

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Can we have Parents Only or Kids Only metas?

I would like that.

If Lethality can be stopped by Miracle, then I don't think Lethality should be banned. Unless Miracle has no way of being included in a skillset which can boost its activation rate.

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If people are going to just run a Lethality + Brave weapon set, then it's massively luck based compared to Sol probably triggering at 50%. But um... Devine Shield... maybe? Lethality doesn't always trigger and I bet people would have weak built units with them. Their isn't a lot of ways to counter. If their using Bows then go close (Unless proximity shot), if their using adjacent range then attack from afar but if their using 1-2 range, then you kinda gotta get rid of 'em in the quickest way. Strong triggers, using Weapon Break skills with Lucky 7 try to avoid it completely.

Sol won't save you from being killed by Lethality, and we're talking brave weapons combined with Hoshido and Flamboyance that allows the Lethality activation rate to rise to at least 55ish%. Relying on avoid won't work very well either because Flamboyance gives both units an extra +30 to Hit.

Lethality can be stopped by Miracle, but Miracle is also luck-based and we'd probably prefer something of a hard counter to deal with a strategy so stupidly powerful. It's true that Miracle can also have its activation rate boosted, but it doesn't get the benefit of having two chances to activate like Lethality can.

Now I'm wondering whether a unit's Flamboyance can stack with the enemy's Flamboyance. If it can, that could cause Lethality's activation rate to reach around 75% -_-

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Instead of banning "broken" skills completely you could also:

  • Limit certain skills (like Lethality) to one unit per team
  • Ban certain skill combos on units (e.g. Vengeance + Vantage)

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Limit the number of skills a unit can be equipped with down to 2 or 3. Thus making combo's limited, less overpowered and limiting how much units can flex. Making teams then come down to what's commonly used and decisions on the best set choices befitting on your play style.

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Hacking was far more prevalent on the DS than the 3DS, also, FE's fanbase was significantly smaller back then, so you just ran into more hackers getting their lolz on than actual players.

You're not going to see as many hax.

I'm pretty sure the game has anti-hacking measures. I questioned it but I think Linkmstr (?) confirmed it on youtube when I asked him, and he said that if any units were on your team that had impossible stat caps or the such, you wouldn't be able to find an opponent or something like that.

Limit the number of skills a unit can be equipped with down to 2 or 3. Thus making combo's limited, less overpowered and limiting how much units can flex. Making teams then come down to what's commonly used and decisions on the best set choices befitting on your play style.

Honestly this is just dumb. The game has a built in limit, why restrict even further? 2 or 3 skills gives you very little to work with and you'd be seeing much more of the same skills over and over again and far less variety.

Edited by Gaia

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Can we have Parents Only or Kids Only metas?

I would like that.

If Lethality can be stopped by Miracle, then I don't think Lethality should be banned. Unless Miracle has no way of being included in a skillset which can boost its activation rate.

This would mean a lot of work unless we stick to those two. I do like the idea though. We could also run other metas such as Males only and females only.

Lethality is powerful and should probably be limited to one member of the team. 1/5 members doesn't seem like to much of a threat for now. We need to test its effectiveness first in battle.

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