Lunatic tips

[EarthboundAddict]

Ok, I'll grab discipline, ignis, Luna and sol for them, panne passes down deliverer, and I'll be swapping out verteran and discipline once there good enough, that leaves room for one more skill, what about Astra, I heard it overlaps with sol though, is this true?

[Czar_Yoshi]

Astra and Sol together is a pretty good combination for ingame.

What happens is that the game first checks to see if you'll use Astra. If you succeed, you'll use it and that'll be all. If Astra fails, the game then checks to see if you get to use Sol. So if you have 40 Skl, you'll have a 20% chance to use Astra and a 32% chance to use Sol (40% Sol activation rate * 80% Astra failure rate).

However... Adding all that together with Luna and Ignis won't work so well. Both Astra and Sol are checked before those two, so they'll very rarely activate (Luna will be less often than Astra, Ignis almost never). You should probably stick with just those two and use the other skillslots for +Mov, +Avo, or self-healing or something.

Be warned that Swordmaster is a really bad class, though. If you want Astra, get in and get out fast.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Czar_Yoshi

[EarthboundAddict]

Astra and Sol together is a pretty good combination for ingame.

What happens is that the game first checks to see if you'll use Astra. If you succeed, you'll use it and that'll be all. If Astra fails, the game then checks to see if you get to use Sol. So if you have 40 Skl, you'll have a 20% chance to use Astra and a 32% chance to use Sol (40% Sol activation rate * 80% Astra failure rate).

However... Adding all that together with Luna and Ignis won't work so well. Both Astra and Sol are checked before those two, so they'll very rarely activate (Luna will be less often than Astra, Ignis almost never). You should probably stick with just those two and use the other skillslots for +Mov, +Avo, or self-healing or something.

Be warned that Swordmaster is a really bad class, though. If you want Astra, get in and get out fast.

Ok, so what's a good skill to help increase your Avoid stat, there are a lot of base skills for that, should I go with them

[Czar_Yoshi]

Patience (Merc 10) is really easy to get since Merc is a good class, and since most of your fighting should be on enemy phase it'll almost always be active. Outdoor Fighter is another one that's easy to get, though it's a little more situational than the former. If you're willing to go through some poor classes to get them, Avo+10 is always active in exchange for no +Hit, and Lucky 7 gives a huge boost if you're fast.

However, do note that dodgetanking is very easy earlygame because enemies have comparatively low Skl and very inaccurate weapons, and becomes much harder lategame when everything spawns with +20 Hit forges on their weapons and the Hit+20 skill. Having an appropriate Breaker is pretty much the only way to reliably dodge those (dropping hitrates from ~80 to ~30).

[EarthboundAddict]

Patience (Merc 10) is really easy to get since Merc is a good class, and since most of your fighting should be on enemy phase it'll almost always be active. Outdoor Fighter is another one that's easy to get, though it's a little more situational than the former. If you're willing to go through some poor classes to get them, Avo+10 is always active in exchange for no +Hit, and Lucky 7 gives a huge boost if you're fast.

However, do note that dodgetanking is very easy earlygame because enemies have comparatively low Skl and very inaccurate weapons, and becomes much harder lategame when everything spawns with +20 Hit forges on their weapons and the Hit+20 skill. Having an appropriate Breaker is pretty much the only way to reliably dodge those (dropping hitrates from ~80 to ~30).

I plan to grab both sword and lance breaker since both of those weapons are very accurate compared to axes. Also I unlocked kjelle's paralouge, her father is Donnel, what skills should I give her and what should her final class be.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Donnel can pass Aptitude or something, he's not particularly useful as a father. Kjelle can end as a Paladin, Wyvern Lord or Dark Flier- pretty much anything with 8 Mov will be fine.

[EarthboundAddict]

Donnel can pass Aptitude or something, he's not particularly useful as a father.

Really? I though donnel was supposed to be one on the better fathers, what is it that makes him a "bad" father. BTW the only reason I married him to sully is so kjelle can get galeforce.

[Alastor15243]

Really? I though donnel was supposed to be one on the better fathers, what is it that makes him a "bad" father. BTW the only reason I married him to sully is so kjelle can get galeforce.

That's pretty much the only benefit he has, though it IS a big one. In-game, as Czar's fond of saying, he's at his weakest at the hardest part of the game and his strongest at the easiest part of the game. Postgame he's largely useless, but as a father, he does pass galeforce, but he's pretty much all-around inferior to Gaius, who gives better mods in every important stat, and more useful classes and skills (aside from Donnel's great and rare mercenary tree passdown)

I consider Donnel!Kjelle and Gaius!Noire to be the best setup for those two, though Czar will strongly disagree with me and argue that Gaius!Kjelle and a hard support Noire are the way to go.

Anyway, for in-game? Definitely pass aptitude, and then she'll be extremely strong for the rest of the game. I don't consider any of the male-exclusive skills Donnel can pass to be viable in an endgame setup for Kjelle, so just pass aptitude to make her better during the game and easier to max out post game.

As for what classes... if you think you can manage going through dark flier for galeforce, try it, she'll definitely have the stats to survive a bad class choice, but then I'd probably finish her off as hero.

[EarthboundAddict]

That's pretty much the only benefit he has, though it IS a big one. In-game, as Czar's fond of saying, he's at his weakest at the hardest part of the game and his strongest at the easiest part of the game. Postgame he's largely useless, but as a father, he does pass galeforce, but he's pretty much all-around inferior to Gaius, who gives better mods in every important stat, and more useful classes and skills (aside from Donnel's great and rare mercenary tree passdown)

I consider Donnel!Kjelle and Gaius!Noire to be the best setup for those two, though Czar will strongly disagree with me and argue that Gaius!Kjelle and a hard support Noire are the way to go.

Anyway, for in-game? Definitely pass aptitude, and then she'll be extremely strong for the rest of the game. I don't consider any of the male-exclusive skills Donnel can pass to be viable in an endgame setup for Kjelle, so just pass aptitude to make her better during the game and easier to max out post game.

As for what classes... if you think you can manage going through dark flier for galeforce, try it, she'll definitely have the stats to survive a bad class choice, but then I'd probably finish her off as hero.

Ok, I just checked Donnel!Kjelle's mods and stats compared to Gaius!Kjelle's mods and stats and Gaius is in fact superior, besides donnel isn't BAD but compared to Gaius and MMU he is inferior to the latter two.

With Donnel and MMU taken by Sully and Panne that leaves Gaius available, so who should I marry him too, Tharja or Nowi.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Noire will benefit a lot more from Gaius than Nah will.

You'll also have a hard time finding anyone with worse mods than Donnel. -1/-1/-1 Mag/Skl/Spd is pretty low in a game where the average Skl mod for a 1st gen unit is 1, and all he has to make up for it is +1 Str.

[EarthboundAddict]

Noire will benefit a lot more from Gaius than Nah will.

You'll also have a hard time finding anyone with worse mods than Donnel. -1/-1/-1 Mag/Skl/Spd is pretty low in a game where the average Skl mod for a 1st gen unit is 1, and all he has to make up for it is +1 Str.

Ok, so since nah can't get galeforce now, who should her father be, I was thinking kellam for the +def and +str mods since that's really all a manakete needs.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Gregor can build support with Nowi very quickly and is a decent option if you don't want to spend too much time on her. Vaike gives very nice mods (much more useful than Kellam's) while giving useful skills, and Henry is a great option if you ever want her to leave Manakete.

[EarthboundAddict]

Gregor can build support with Nowi very quickly and is a decent option if you don't want to spend too much time on her. Vaike gives very nice mods (much more useful than Kellam's) while giving useful skills, and Henry is a great option if you ever want her to leave Manakete.

I just looked at Vaike's mods, skills and classes vs kellam's mods, skills and classes and Vaike is superior, the only thing is I was saving Vaike for Gerome, so now that Vaike is taken who should gerome's father be.

[Alastor15243]

I just looked at Vaike's mods, skills and classes vs kellam's mods, skills and classes and Vaike is superior, the only thing is I was saving Vaike for Gerome, so now that Vaike is taken who should gerome's father be.

Vaike's pretty crap for Gerome anyway, at least for postgame. Henry's his best dad for postgame, and honestly Gerome only cares about postgame. In-game his availability is shit. He wants somebody who can give him a hit+ skill, and Henry does that AND gives him berserker.

[EarthboundAddict]

Vaike's pretty crap for Gerome anyway, at least for postgame. Henry's his best dad for postgame, and honestly Gerome only cares about postgame. In-game his availability is shit. He wants somebody who can give him a hit+ skill, and Henry does that AND gives him berserker.

Is there an alternative to Henry cause he's taken by Maribelle, is there anybody else, my available options are Virion, Gregor, Frederick, Kellam and Libra.

MMU is taken by panne, Vaike is taken by Nowi, Stahl is taken by Olivia, Lon'qu is taken by Cordelia, Ricken is taken by Lissa, Gaius is taken by Tharja, Henry is taken by maribelle, Donnel is taken by Sully and Chrom is taken by Sumia.

[Alastor15243]

Is there an alternative to Henry cause he's taken by Maribelle, is there anybody else, my available options are Virion, Gregor, Frederick, Kellam and Libra.

MMU is taken by panne, Vaike is taken by Nowi, Stahl is taken by Olivia, Lon'qu is taken by Cordelia, Ricken is taken by Lissa, Gaius is taken by Tharja, Henry is taken by maribelle, Donnel is taken by Sully and Chrom is taken by Sumia.

Did you already do Henry x Maribelle? Because that's also a pretty shit pairing in all honesty. Virion is way bettter for Brady (Lon'qu is better still, another reason why I dislike Lon'qu!Severa, aside from the speed being generally pointless in apotheosis and vengeance being annoying) because Brady is the only galeboy aside from male Morgan capable of having a really good speed mod thanks to not needing luna or anything and thus being able to take a high-mods but no crucial skills dad.

Henry x Cherche and Virion x Maribelle would be way better. And I only mention their apotheosis effectiveness because both of these children are REEEEEAAAAAALLLY bad in-game, and are really only useful postgame unless you're grinding in-game, which you are, in which case all of the children will wipe the floor with the entirety of lunatic with ease.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Alastor15243

[EarthboundAddict]

Did you already do Henry x Maribelle? Because that's also a pretty shit pairing in all honesty. Virion is way bettter for Brady (Lon'qu is better still, another reason why I dislike Lon'qu!Severa, aside from the speed being generally pointless in apotheosis and vengeance being annoying) because Brady is the only galeboy aside from male Morgan capable of having a really good speed mod thanks to not needing luna or anything and thus being able to take a high-mods but no crucial skills dad.

Henry x Cherche and Virion x Maribelle would be way better. And I only mention their apotheosis effectiveness because both of this children are REEEEEAAAAAALLLY bad in-game, and are really only useful postgame unless you're grinding in-game, which you are, in which case all of the children will wipe the floor with the entirety of lunatic with ease.

Really cause Henry!Brady gets a lot of praise and it worked very well for me, *sigh* it seems all the pairings I thought were good are actually very shitty, and no Henry and maribelle aren't married YET so I still have chance to change it.

Because of how bad I am at picking out pairings are there more good ones you could recommend. (Panne, MMU, Donnel, Sully, Chrom, Sumia, Olivia and stahl are already married off so it's to late to change those)

[Alastor15243]

Really cause Henry!Brady gets a lot of praise and it worked very well for me, *sigh* it seems all the pairings I thought were good are actually very shitty, and no Henry and maribelle aren't married YET so I still have chance to change it.

Because of how bad I am at picking out pairings are there more good ones you could recommend. (Panne, MMU, Donnel, Sully, Chrom, Sumia, Olivia and stahl are already married off so it's to late to change those)

Well it's crappy compared to what Brady CAN be, since it's not letting Brady take advantage of his chance to actually be fast. It's not BAD, like, it's extremely hard to make Brady actually BAD since he already has everything he needs skillwise, but yeah, Henry!Gerome and Virion!Brady (Lon'qu!Brady even more so) is much better.

Do you want tips for apotheosis? Because if you're grinding to get all of these children, Lunatic itself is probably going to be a breeze.

If so, I'd recommend visiting the pairing thread.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Alastor15243

[EarthboundAddict]

Well it's crappy compared to what Brady CAN be, since it's not letting Brady take advantage of his chance to actually be fast. It's not BAD, like, it's extremely hard to make Brady actually BAD since he already has everything he needs skillwise, but yeah, Henry!Gerome and Virion!Brady (Lon'qu!Brady even more so) is much better.

Do you want tips for apotheosis? Because if you're grinding to get all of these children, Lunatic itself is probably going to be a breeze.

If so, I'd recommend visiting the pairing thread.

Ah, ok I'll check that out thanks, I was grinding for apotheosis, the walkthroughs I watched almost always used different pairings from mine so I thought I was doing something wrong. Is there a difference between lunatic apotheosis and hard apotheosis or is it always the same.

[Alastor15243]

Ah, ok I'll check that out thanks, I was grinding for apotheosis, the walkthroughs I watched almost always used different pairings from mine so I thought I was doing something wrong. Is there a difference between lunatic apotheosis and hard apotheosis or is it always the same.

There's like ONE enemy who's different depending on mode, but it's a first secret wave mook, there's no way that guy's gonna make a difference between victory and defeat no matter what you're doing.

[EarthboundAddict]

There's like ONE enemy who's different depending on mode, but it's a first secret wave mook, there's no way that guy's gonna make a difference between victory and defeat no matter what you're doing.

How does apotheosis play? I heard there are like secret waves and stuff like that, could explain what these are please?

[Alastor15243]

How does apotheosis play? I heard there are like secret waves and stuff like that, could explain what these are please?

If you can defeat the first wave of normal apotheosis (five generals and two war clerics) in two or fewer turns, you can take on the secret route, where the enemies are much stronger. As for what that's like, to quote from the guide I'm writing:

WHAT YOU’RE DEALING WITH HERE

Alright, first off, I thought I’d take a second to explain what Apotheosis Secret Route is and what you should be expecting to deal with.

Apotheosis Secret Route is an alternate route in the DLC challenge map Apotheosis, entered by clearing the first wave of apotheosis in 2 turns or less, and it’s full of extremely difficult enemies armed to the teeth with illegally-forged weapons, extremely inflated stats reaching up to 70 or 80 (or in the case of luck for one enemy, 99), and skills that you’d normally only see on Grima, special units, or in Lunatic+. They all have dragonskin, meaning they’re immune to counter and lethality and they also take half as much damage as other units do from attacks. These guys are very powerful, and if you give them the opportunity, they will destroy you. So the key thing here is to not give them that opportunity. This essentially boils down to an extreme focus on player-phase combat and hit and run tactics. Enemy phase combat is almost entirely out of the question, and tanking is not remotely viable here (THIS INCLUDES NOSFERATU AND SOL, DO NOT ATTEMPT IT, THEY WILL ANNIHILATE YOU). With very few exceptions, you want to design your party with all-out offense in mind. Defense, resistance and luck are largely irrelevant stats in this challenge run. In other runs, some minimum defense you might actually risk going under is important because otherwise certain enemies can one-round you, but in this challenge run, pretty much nothing can kill you in exactly one round of combat (aside from the Nightmare Sniper and Anna, who we’ll cover a little bit later). The idea is to have your units kill them before they have the chance to kill you. Either kill everything nearby in one turn, or kill as many as you can and then retreat to an area where they won’t be attacked much.

Most enemies will be armed with either Aegis+, Pavise+, or both. There are a couple who have neither, but they’re rare and usually only don’t have them because they have some freaky unfair skill combination that doesn’t leave room for it. Normally this would be irrelevant, because the majority of your damage comes from dual strikes which are immune to these skills, but not here. Here you only get four attacks, and half of them are affected by these skills, so you need to make sure you don’t attack the wrong enemies. In all likelihood you will not be able to kill an enemy who can resist your weapon’s attacks, so be prepared for this and mind who you send out against what enemies.

Note: this guide is written with no-brave runs in mind, so some of the stuff at the bottom paragraph doesn't necessarily apply.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Alastor15243

[EarthboundAddict]

If you can defeat the first wave of normal apotheosis (five generals and two war clerics) in two or fewer turns, you can take on the secret route, where the enemies are much stronger. As for what that's like, to quote from the guide I'm writing:

WHAT YOU’RE DEALING WITH HERE

Alright, first off, I thought I’d take a second to explain what Apotheosis Secret Route is and what you should be expecting to deal with.

Apotheosis Secret Route is an alternate route in the DLC challenge map Apotheosis, entered by clearing the first wave of apotheosis in 2 turns or less, and it’s full of extremely difficult enemies armed to the teeth with illegally-forged weapons, extremely inflated stats reaching up to 70 or 80 (or in the case of luck for one enemy, 99), and skills that you’d normally only see on Grima, special units, or in Lunatic+. They all have dragonskin, meaning they’re immune to counter and lethality and they also take half as much damage as other units do from attacks. These guys are very powerful, and if you give them the opportunity, they will destroy you. So the key thing here is to not give them that opportunity. This essentially boils down to an extreme focus on player-phase combat and hit and run tactics. Enemy phase combat is almost entirely out of the question, and tanking is not remotely viable here (THIS INCLUDES NOSFERATU AND SOL, DO NOT ATTEMPT IT, THEY WILL ANNIHILATE YOU). With very few exceptions, you want to design your party with all-out offense in mind. Defense, resistance and luck are largely irrelevant stats in this challenge run. In other runs, some minimum defense you might actually risk going under is important because otherwise certain enemies can one-round you, but in this challenge run, pretty much nothing can kill you in exactly one round of combat (aside from the Nightmare Sniper and Anna, who we’ll cover a little bit later). The idea is to have your units kill them before they have the chance to kill you. Either kill everything nearby in one turn, or kill as many as you can and then retreat to an area where they won’t be attacked much.

Most enemies will be armed with either Aegis+, Pavise+, or both. There are a couple who have neither, but they’re rare and usually only don’t have them because they have some freaky unfair skill combination that doesn’t leave room for it. Normally this would be irrelevant, because the majority of your damage comes from dual strikes which are immune to these skills, but not here. Here you only get four attacks, and half of them are affected by these skills, so you need to make sure you don’t attack the wrong enemies. In all likelihood you will not be able to kill an enemy who can resist your weapon’s attacks, so be prepared for this and mind who you send out against what enemies.

Note: this guide is written with no-brave runs in mind, so some of the stuff at the bottom paragraph doesn't necessarily apply.

How....?

Ok? So, how does the normal wave compare? is it easier (please be easier).

[Alastor15243]

How....?

Ok? So, how does the normal wave compare? is it easier (please be easier).

The normal waves are indeed easier, though the enemies still all have Dragonskin. Why do you ask?

Edited July 16, 2015 by Alastor15243

[EarthboundAddict]

The normal waves are indeed easier, though the enemies still all have Dragonskin. Why do you ask?

Nothing I was just thinking of doing the easier route first, that and I'm not very good at pairing my units anyway so most of my children are probably going to be absolutely worthless. I just wish I could marry off my units depending on there supports and not their kids, like I want Maribelle to marry Chrom and I want Olivia to marry Donnel but their children just end up shit.