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Thane Tali

Let's Talk Lunatic

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Can anyone weigh in one what the Lunatic difficulty scaling is like?

a) Increased numbers of enemies?

b) Are the stat increases overkill or fair-ish?

c) Are there a few really tougher-than-average enemies, or are all the enemies very tough?

d) Forged weapons on enemies?

e) What are enemy skills like? Are there any enemy-exclusive skills?

f) Do we see a lot of 1-2 range weaponry [The enemy-only Throwing Swords and stuff I've seen listed on the serenes page for Fates?]

g) Do map conditions change? Fog of War?

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I have barely seen any lunatic runs, this is all I've seen so far

Chapter 7 boss gains like, 5 HP 2 Strength

Number of enemies is doubled to tripled for Hoshido

Exp drops to 60% (or so)

Presumably there would be more enemy only weapons

I don't think there are any map condition changes

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I've *only* played Lunatic, so I don't know.

That said, it's easier than PoR's Maniac thus far. Or maybe even New Mystery's Hard, but maybe I'm just awful at that one.

Enemies don't carried forged weapons. Skills are present, but they're not too crazy. That said, I've reset many, many times over because of skill oversight. I just had one ten minutes ago to Nohr's Chapter 14 boss's Magic Counter (Felicia's magical shuriken counted, but the main problem is just my own forgetfulness). An hour with about 10 level ups wasted. ARGH.

(And for that reason, I really appreciate the fixed level ups.)

1-2 range weapons aren't too rampant. They're boss-exclusive. And no fog of war.

Edited by nocturnal YL

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My guess is that there might be some more important changes in the AI

For example, in Chapter 6 Normal, the boss doesn't attack the Avatar, but in Lunatic, the boss will attack the Avatar and you can get game over

Presumably this applies to several other bosses throughout the game as well

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Sounds reasonable. Except maybe the enemies tripling in Hoshido. That should at least make boss-rush interesting.

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Based on early Hoshido, any doubling or tripling seems to be compared to Normal, not Hard. Normal to Hard has about as much increase in enemy numbers as Hard to Lunatic so it's not this huge jump.

Early Hoshido is the only part I've played on Lunatic; it doesn't seem too bad but unlike with the past few games, things often do really become more challenging as the game goes on. Nohr is also pretty much a whole difficulty level ahead of Hoshido. It's also worth noting that unlike in Awakening, enemies all have set skills and often very carefully selected ones from outside their class. Lategame Nohr Hard has some pretty nasty skill selections, and I imagine it's even worse on Lunatic. I haven't seen any Nohr Lunatic for myself but I can imagine it later on having a lot of resemblance to a non-random version of Awakening Lunatic+.

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Hoshido Lunatic I would compare to FE13 Lunatic (if it matters, I didn’t think that was very hard). I would say it probably doesn’t ever get as hard as earlygame FE13 Lunatic if figuring out reliable strategies blind. The earlygame here is really easy but the lategame in Hoshido still felt harder than FE13 lategame to me (probably because your only “op” unit is Corrin, unlike in FE13 where you have Robin, her family, other children, Tiki, etc).

Nohr Lunatic felt pretty hard, especially later when the enemy is all promoted. However, some of this impression may be due to rusty FE skills, my incompetent Japanese and getting used to new mechanics as a first FE14 run (certainly also lots of resets were due to forgetting skills, miscalculating some mechanics, and such). The enemies are not that strong compared to FE12/13 Lunatic, they just have a lot of skills like the poison and debuff ones (and a good number of Freeze, Weakness, halfHP, Draw staves.).

For me it got to the point where I felt I could either push through and brute force and hate myself (like I did with FE13 L+) or restart with better decision-making.

[spoiler=minor c17, c19 spoilers]Slogging through the Ninja cave and the millions of Shurikens+Poison skill stack (while trying to save Saizou) and those hit rates on the foxes made me kinda irrationally mad. >_>

fwiw my Corrin was pretty awful here which might have something to do with it.

Invisible Lunatic I haven’t had the chance to play too much but it doesn’t feel that hard. The fact that Dread Fighter and Dark Falcon have promoted-level base stats (and you can get 2 Divine Dragon Herbs/Boots) probably plays a role in that, however.

Personally I definitely think FE9 Maniac and FE12 (below Lunatic(‘)) are easier but eh. FE9 Maniac just wasn’t that hard imo, and FE12 just makes a lot of intuitive sense with the AI manipulation (if unaware or not exploiting that then yeah that’s really hard. I knew that when first playing it so it’s hard to judge). I want to say Nohr Hard is as hard as those, especially later on.

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if i may ask what is invisible lunatic?

It's when your power level is so low that lunatic mode is invisible to you.

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if i may ask what is invisible lunatic?

Lunatic mode on the third route, Invisible Kingdom.

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oh i feel dumb now, thanks.

Are there any type of bonus modes for beating lunatic like in FE 12 or FE 13?

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I've *only* played Lunatic, so I don't know.

That said, it's easier than PoR's Maniac thus far. Or maybe even New Mystery's Hard, but maybe I'm just awful at that one.

Enemies don't carried forged weapons. Skills are present, but they're not too crazy. That said, I've reset many, many times over because of skill oversight. I just had one ten minutes ago to Nohr's Chapter 14 boss's Magic Counter (Felicia's magical shuriken counted, but the main problem is just my own forgetfulness). An hour with about 10 level ups wasted. ARGH.

(And for that reason, I really appreciate the fixed level ups.)

1-2 range weapons aren't too rampant. They're boss-exclusive. And no fog of war.

Enemies do carry forged weapons, but pretty much only in Encounters. Often to ridiculous forge levels, too, like +7. (Just +3 alone takes eight copies of the weapon, so those bandits must be rich as all hell)

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oh i feel dumb now, thanks.

Are there any type of bonus modes for beating lunatic like in FE 12 or FE 13?

Doesn't seem that way, but it also doesn't seem as necessary here because enemies are already getting a lot of specific tricks. Plenty of set enemies will have skills as extreme as Pass and Counter even before Lunatic, at least in Nohr.

Enemies do carry forged weapons, but pretty much only in Encounters. Often to ridiculous forge levels, too, like +7. (Just +3 alone takes eight copies of the weapon, so those bandits must be rich as all hell)

So that's why upgraded shops carry like 10 copies of some basic weapons you'll never be giving to 10 characters at a time.

Edited by Othin

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Enemies do carry forged weapons, but pretty much only in Encounters. Often to ridiculous forge levels, too, like +7. (Just +3 alone takes eight copies of the weapon, so those bandits must be rich as all hell)

You could say that they made off like bandits.

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For example, I'm currently watching Lucarioplayer's Invisible Kingdom Lunatic, it's kind of interesting.

For Chapter 6, the Nohr forces are no longer wyverns, so you're somewhat forced to rush headfirst into the enemies if you want to reach them in time

Chapter 7? Level 10 Lance Fighters with ~10s in everything (25+ hp). Pain. Technically you can just bottleneck them, but the archers are all sorts of pain as well

Edited by CocoaGalaxy

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For example, I'm currently watching Lucarioplayer's Invisible Kingdom Lunatic, it's kind of interesting.

For Chapter 6, the Nohr forces are no longer wyverns, so you're somewhat forced to rush headfirst into the enemies if you want to reach them in time

Chapter 7? Level 10 Lance Fighters with ~10s in everything (25+ hp). Pain. Technically you can just bottleneck them, but the archers are all sorts of pain as well

Thanks for that name, I'll go watch an FE14 playthrough that doesn't make me want to facepalm forever.

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Currently looking at Invisible Kingdom Chapter 8, the ironic thing is, the named characters (that are not the boss) have the exact same thing, except the boosted weapon rank.

The Boss gains 4HP/STR/MAG/DEF and 2 Res and that's it.

Aside from that, the actual thing is that like, these Samurais have 14 Str/17 Spd/9 Def, which is pretty ridiculous

Lance Fighters? 16 Str/12 Spd/13 Def. Man, this is kinda brutal

Edited by CocoaGalaxy

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Currently looking at Invisible Kingdom Chapter 8, the ironic thing is, the named characters (that are not the boss) have the exact same thing, except the boosted weapon rank.

The Boss gains 4HP/STR/MAG/DEF and 2 Res and that's it.

Aside from that, the actual thing is that like, these Samurais have 14 Str/17 Spd/9 Def, which is pretty ridiculous

Lance Fighters? 16 Str/12 Spd/13 Def. Man, this is kinda brutal

How exactly do you deal with it? Stagger advances, lots of attack stance?

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How exactly do you deal with it? Stagger advances, lots of attack stance?

IK Chap 6:

What I saw was, move right, sing with Azura, move right into the hoshido boss range and counter kill him, speed to the left and repeat for the left side

IK Chap 7: Knowledge of the map beforehand is helpful, sometimes necessary otherwise you might get killed due to mistakes or what not.

Simply shuffle along the corridors slowly (Lucarioplayer took 60 turns to clean out the whole map)

To safely kill the boss, have Felicia/Jakob throw kunais with Avatar in attack stance, with Azura singing. Stationary bosses (especially those with just 1 range) are not a problem most of the time. (Fuuga is a different story, but that's mostly because he has annoying skills + weapons)

IK Chap 8: Choose one direction (left or right) and move there, with avatar blocking the rest with the dragonstone. once that's done, slowly mow down the map with the avatar. Same idea really

IK Chap 9: All hell breaks loose. I can't really give any advice because RNG WIND.

At least Fuuga has the decency to not carry ranged weapons so you can just bombard him from range.

Mind you, the throne = avoid boost = bloody annoying

Mozume Paralogue on Lunatic:

The Faceless have 21 ATK, they can 1HKO Mozume if she doesn't have any sort of HP/DEF boost.

Compared to Hoshido/Nohr, IK, for the chapters I've seen so far, doesn't actually increase the enemy count by much/at all

The game itself is mostly built around "Difficult Stages, Easy Bosses".

Comparatively easy bosses anyway

Edited by CocoaGalaxy

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I'm on Nohr Chapter 19 Lunatic, and I have to say I've been very impressed by the game's difficulty so far. The game isn't too hard from about chapters 1-7, but after that the game starts to kick things up a notch. Nohr seems decently fond of objectives with time limits, as I've seen 3 defeat the boss in "x" amount of turns. I have for the most part been unable to just overwhelm my enemies with raw stats, as enemies are generally threatening enough and well positioned. Enemy skills are set, so they can bring nasty combinations if you don't take extra care to get rid of them. Some examples include: An Oni in the defend chapter has the skill that switches position after combat. If you aren't prepared for him, he can completely compromise your defences. A Sword Master in chapter 17 has that skill as well, but he uses it to bring you to the boss, who has enough speed and attacks with both magical and physical attacks which will often make him 1/2 round your characters. And in Nishiki's chapter a lot of the generic fox spirits have the line of death skill (They deal 10 more damage but take 10 more damage), pass, or both. (They also all have beast slayer) The game feels to have pushed player phase a lot, as for the most part you can't just throw your units in and call it a day.

Edited by Monado Boy

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How is Lunatic Hoshido handled? I haven't seen much discussion about it around here.

I've only heard it mentioned once on the Fire Emblem subreddit, and that was without much detail. From the impression I heard it's handled similarly to Nohr Lunatic, just with frailer units and somewhat worse map design as a whole. I haven't touched Hoshido myself, so I can't give an accurate impression.

Edited by Monado Boy

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This makes me think that "low turn counts" probably aren't going to be sub-10 for any given map. Hmm.

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