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Senran Kagura, Ace Attourney: Dual Destinies writer worked on 3rd path


The DanMan
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http://www.siliconera.com/2015/07/14/senran-kagura-writer-worked-on-fire-emblem-fates-third-story-path/

So, this may or may not explain some things (not familiar with his work).

And an interesting tidbit from that article: he and other Synthese staff wrote the support conversations.

Edited by The DanMan
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Aye, I wrote that in the general story discussion thread. However, you forgot to point out that he was only involved in Ace Attorney: Dual Destinies and Professor Layton vs. Ace Attorney and not the original trilogy. There's a big, big difference in quality between the games he's been involved with and not, and sadly not for the better, if you want my personal opinion.

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Great, now I'm going to have to buy the third path.

with the exception of PL vs AA, I love the writing of AA. Sure DD gets a bit corny at times but the plot was still good. Sure, not as good as the original trilogy, but FE is the only series I've ever seen get better as the series went on. Seeing as I'm completely unspoiled to the plot at this point, I'm actually hyped for all 3 routes now.

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Great, now I'm going to have to buy the third path.

with the exception of PL vs AA, I love the writing of AA. Sure DD gets a bit corny at times but the plot was still good. Sure, not as good as the original trilogy, but FE is the only series I've ever seen get better as the series went on. Seeing as I'm completely unspoiled to the plot at this point, I'm actually hyped for all 3 routes now.

You liked Dual Destinies? How? The last case was riddled with plot holes and was a carbon copy of case 1-5, the final plot twist was just abysmal and obvious from a mile away, Apollo's supposed character development went nowhere, and the entire game revolved around Athena rather than him, even though he had many unresolved subplots and she was a new addition to the game. It hardly does anything right!

I shouldn't rant about this on a Fire Emblem forum, but holy crap, I don't think I've ever been so let down by a game's story; not even Fates disappointed me that thoroughly.

Edited by Thane
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You liked Dual Destinies? How? The last case was riddled with plot holes and was a carbon copy of case 1-5, the final plot twist was just abysmal and obvious from a mile away, Apollo's supposed character development went nowhere, and the entire game revolved around Athena rather than him, even though he had many unresolved subplots and she was a new addition to the game. It hardly does anything right!

I shouldn't rant about this on a Fire Emblem forum, but holy crap, I don't think I've ever been so let down by a game's story; not even Fates disappointed me that thoroughly.

If you want my personal opinion, people shouldn't have to justify why they like something. I thought the story of Dual Destinies was fine, although admittedly not nearly as good as the original trilogy.

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Thane, for one thing, I honestly didn't have any reason to expect development from Apollo, since he already had his own game. Phoenix isn't developed in AA2 as much as Apollo is in DD, so I was surprised to see him developed at all.

I also don't think the final plot twist was so abysmal, since it was hinted at in the plot. Also, I'm pretty used to the game revolving around the new female costars by this point. Seriously, while I feel the series has the best writing in gaming. AJ, AAI, and the original trilogy revolved around the female co-protagonists. If plot-holes are there, I didn't notice them in my run-thru of the game.(My 3DS reset deleteing my data and purchase history, so I could only do one runthrough)

My only gripe with the game was how easy it was, and boy was.it.

In all honesty, AA is a series I hold in high regard, so I'm disappointed I can't comfortably replay it. curse the IOS version, and it's Iphone4 lag

Granted, I'm the freak who liked Awakening's story, so I have weird tastes I guess

Eh, this thread has enough to do with AA to warrent ranting

Edited by MCProductions
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Aye, I wrote that in the general story discussion thread. However, you forgot to point out that he was only involved in Ace Attorney: Dual Destinies and Professor Layton vs. Ace Attorney and not the original trilogy. There's a big, big difference in quality between the games he's been involved with and not, and sadly not for the better, if you want my personal opinion.

I just skimmed the article before posting. I also looked for the general story discussion thread to see of I was going to be redundant by posting this, only for it to seem like the thread had dropped off the face of the earth (probably just missed it).

*Edits title*

Edited by The DanMan
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From what I've heard about the DLC route, I'm not really surprised he worked on DD. It kind of has the same 'everything's gonna turn out fine!!!' atmosphere. Never played PL vs AA so I can't comment on that, but eh. DD was decent. I like it because of the characters, but its plot is a bit lacking, which so far is about the same as my opinion on Fates. Maybe that'll change when we see the localization.

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I guess this explains why there are contradictions between the Nohr and Invisible Kingdom routes...

Anyway, I liked Dual Destinies too - at least story-wise. I really enjoyed the protagonist changes and I was actually pleasantly surprised by the amount of development that Apollo got, since I came in not expecting anything since it was Phoenix's big return and there was a new character too. I wasn't fond of gameplay changes like the more limited exploration though, and I agree that the final case was weak.

After building up Apollo's "turn" for a while, he hardly seems to accomplish anything before going back to status quo.

I also thought AA3 was easily the worst game in the main series though, which seems to be a very uncommon opinion.

I didn't enjoy how reliant on spirit mediuns mechanics the final case was and reusing the same culprit thrice took out a lot of the fun of seeing the culprit break apart which are always some of the best moments in the PW games.

Regarding the writer's other series, Senran Kagura, I think the writing there is just really odd. There are some segments with just text and images that are surprisingly good, at least for the type of game it is, but the ones with the 3d models and text boxes are a huge drop in quality and just as bad as you'd expect. In the Hanzo school route, the text segments seem almost completely unrelated to the main story too, and even the ones that are tied into the main story are then generally briefly retold in the 3d models + text boxes presentation. Hebijo route has the text and story tied closer together, without those overlapping segments, but towards the end of the game the entire narrative gets extremely rushed and starts quickly dropping plot devices and cliches like friendship power without any proper build up.

Edited by NeonZ
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Thane, for one thing, I honestly didn't have any reason to expect development from Apollo, since he already had his own game. Phoenix isn't developed in AA2 as much as Apollo is in DD, so I was surprised to see him developed at all.

I also don't think the final plot twist was so abysmal, since it was hinted at in the plot. Also, I'm pretty used to the game revolving around the new female costars by this point. Seriously, while I feel the series has the best writing in gaming. AJ, AAI, and the original trilogy revolved around the female co-protagonists. If plot-holes are there, I didn't notice them in my run-thru of the game.(My 3DS reset deleteing my data and purchase history, so I could only do one runthrough)

My only gripe with the game was how easy it was, and boy was.it.

In all honesty, AA is a series I hold in high regard, so I'm disappointed I can't comfortably replay it. curse the IOS version, and it's Iphone4 lag

Granted, I'm the freak who liked Awakening's story, so I have weird tastes I guess

Eh, this thread has enough to do with AA to warrent ranting

Sorry, I came across as a complete asshole. Like blah2127 said, you shouldn't have to justify what you like and not, since it has nothing to do with me. I just expressed my disbelief, but I apologize if I sounded rude.

However, there are several big problems with DD that I just can't overlook, and I'm surprised anyone can.

For starters, here's a synopsis of both case 1-5 and 5-5, as summerized by Bad Player on the Court Records forum:

Everything started [X] years ago, when [Person A] murdered [Person B]. However, the state of the crime scene seems to suggest the killer is [Person C], a young girl who was at the scene of the crime. However, [Person D]discovered the scene, and they rearranged it in order to protect [Person C]. In the present, while [Person D] insists on their guilt in order to protect [Person C], Phoenix Wright proves that the murderer was neither [Person C] nor[Person D], but actually [Person A].

Just a tad too similar, huh?

Aside from that, we also have the wonderful example of...

The Phantom being this mysterious criminal who was only rumored to exist and be behind Blackquill's incarceration...is caught on tape with several incriminating pieces of evidence on his very body; this was also somehow overlooked by not only the police but also Miles Edgeworth for seven years...because they couldn't rewind a tape.

And then just the idea of Apollo believing Phoenix just because the latter offered a ridiculous idea; while that's not uncommon in Ace Attorney, the writing was extraordinarily clumsy. The conversation was basically:

Apollo: evidence is everything in court.

Phoenix: the killer jumped out of the moving platform at high speed to the emergency ladder.

Edgeworth: dude, no, people can get afraid, which means no one could've made that jump.

Phoenix: here is a document proving that the Phantom doesn't feel fear.

Apollo: gee, Mr. Wright, you must be onto something!

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The last case is weaker than usual, there's no denying that, but the plot as a whole I liked.Sides, my gripe with the series at this point would be that they have pulled the same twist in the last case for 3 games It's no where near as bad as the twist at the end of PLVSAA honestly, which I won't say here since I don't know how to spoiler.

Don't worry about your post where you asked why I liked it tho, I'm sure we've all made posts on hear that we forgot to check our tone on before posting.

Edited by MCProductions
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The last case is weaker than usual, there's no denying that, but the plot as a whole I liked.Sides, my gripe with the series at this point would be that they have pulled the same twist in the last case for 3 games It's no where near as bad as the twist at the end of PLVSAA honestly, which I won't say here since I don't know how to spoiler.

Don't worry about your post where you asked why I liked it tho, I'm sure we've all made posts on hear that we forgot to check our tone on before posting.

There's the thing though...what's the plot as a whole? It doesn't start until the fourth case, which is not even a full case to begin with. The "dark age of the law" is just mentioned by characters but you hardly get to experience it; if anything, earlier entries of the series were far darker, and showed far more corruption without having characters saying "this is bad, you shouldn't like this, this is not good!".

And yeah...Professor Layton vs. Ace Attorney had an...interesting ending. And by that I mean I slapped myself on the forehead and shut down my 3DS for a while before continuing, feeling that everything I had done up until that point was just meaningless.

Thank you, glad to hear I didn't offend you or anything.

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You're welcome, tho I felt cases 1 and 3 was part of the overall plot.

While case 2 and three were filler for the most part, 3 does delve a bit into Athena's past a bit, which is clearly where they wanted to focus.

Tho I do agree their handleing of the dark age of law was dumb. It serves no purpose other than to give Phoenix his badge back, and make Blackquill matter at all. They should of just dropped that plot point altogether.

Edit: It's worth pointing out that the other two PL games I've played ended similarly to PLVSPW, so the AA writers may have had nothing to do with that bit.

Edited by MCProductions
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I'm just going to pretend Invisible Kingdom is our non-canon excuse to fight with all our characters and nothing will convince me it's the true ending.

I like my stories like I like my tea, bittersweet.

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I suppose you're right, but I'll never understand why they thought it'd be a good idea to add Athena in the same game as Phoenix makes his return and the last game set up Apollo as his successor; the final case is even called "Turnabout Succession". They ignored all of his subplots for the sake of a new character who brought absolutely nothing to the game. Another teenage girl assistant whose parents are dead or gone? That's...literally every sidekick in the series.

But hey, it's cool, because she's pretty, has a mindreading necklace that also serves as a hologram projector, is an 18-year-old lawyer/psychologist even though she was a social recluse at 11 before her mother died and they don't explain how she managed to get to Europe and finish two frigging degrees at 18 when she hardly went to school before. I swear that girl's taken right out of someone's fanfic.

Also, why didn't she state her main objective until the last case? I mean...that's the plot, isn't it? What was she doing before that could help her reach her goal? Sigh...it's just such clumsy writing that it makes me nauseous. I hope the most recent game is better.

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My only gripe with dual destinies (well besides that the writing wasn't as good as the trilogy) was that I could tell who the culprit was pretty much as soon as I saw them. The only exception being the final case. It wasn't bad though. Knowing that the writer from dual destinies worked on the 3rd path tells me that the story should be decent and enjoyable at the very least.

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Bear in mind Phoenix didn't state or seemingly act on his main objective until the last case of PW1(case 5 wasn't part of the game when it was first released in Japan) too, and he acted on it about as much as Athena did hers before the final case.

Should they of focused on Apollo more, yeah, but honestly AAI2 is the only game in the series to not introduce(or reintroduce in AA3's case) a female character whose backstory drives the plot. It's pretty equitable to Peach being kidnapped in Mario at this point TBH.

The game definitely doesn't beat the original trilogy, tho I do find it better plotwise than AAI1 and most definitely PLVSPW.

Edited by MCProductions
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You liked Dual Destinies? How? The last case was riddled with plot holes and was a carbon copy of case 1-5, the final plot twist was just abysmal and obvious from a mile away, Apollo's supposed character development went nowhere, and the entire game revolved around Athena rather than him, even though he had many unresolved subplots and she was a new addition to the game. It hardly does anything right!

I shouldn't rant about this on a Fire Emblem forum, but holy crap, I don't think I've ever been so let down by a game's story; not even Fates disappointed me that thoroughly.

I actually thought Dual Destinies was far stronger as a game than the fourth game, and debatably better than the second. Cases 4 and 5 meshed together beautifully and was handled very compellingly.
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You liked Dual Destinies? How? The last case was riddled with plot holes and was a carbon copy of case 1-5, the final plot twist was just abysmal and obvious from a mile away, Apollo's supposed character development went nowhere, and the entire game revolved around Athena rather than him, even though he had many unresolved subplots and she was a new addition to the game. It hardly does anything right!

I shouldn't rant about this on a Fire Emblem forum, but holy crap, I don't think I've ever been so let down by a game's story; not even Fates disappointed me that thoroughly.

Dual Destinies was much more well thought out then the second and fourth games lol, in my opinion anyways.

Edited by Jedi
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Yeah, both the second and fourth games suffered due to executive meddling. I believe there was only supposed to be one Ace Attorney game at first, but Shu Takumi was later told to make it a trilogy, which of course affected the second game hte most due to lack of planning. As for the fourth game, he didn't want to include Phoenix, but his superiors did, so it sort of became two halves of a game in one.

That being said, I still vastly prefer them to Dual Destinies. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but the plot holes in the carbon copied last case, particularly the video tape, the boring and obvious villains, Athena, ignoring various subplots, messing up Apollo and being generally poorly written (did you guys even notice all the ellipses?) makes me unable to enjoy Dual Destinies.

Let's hope The Great Ace Attorney will deliver, if it ever comes to the west.

Edited by Thane
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Maybe it's because I hadn't played 1-5 in over a decade, but I honestly didn't notice the carbon copying. Even if it was, it was far stronger than the standalone case due to the attachements developed to Blackquill, Athena, et al. over the course of the whole game, rather than just new faces added specifically for that case. I'd have to replay to delve into any plothole discussion, but I disagree about the villains being boring or obvious. I don't see how they "messed up" Apollo either, and after reading Japanese VNs, honestly, I don't notice excess ellipses anymore. I mean, I'm not claiming Dual Destinies was the best game (that title goes to AAI2, for me personally), but it was incredibly enjoyable, perhaps because of the long time between when I played my last AA and when I played DD. For people who marathoned through them one after the other (not necessarily saying you did specifically, this is a general concession I am making), I can certainly see how the impact would be wildly different.

I am also greatly looking forward to The Great Ace Attorney.

And honestly, a little more back to the original topic, the fact that writers from enjoyable franchises are cross-pollinating fills me with nothing but joy on the whole. I hope for good things from the 3rd path.

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I suppose that's simply a matter of opinion. While I liked Blackquill, I thought his and Athena's relationship was incredibly forced and very poorly portrayed since they crammed it into the final case like everything else. It also didn't help that I disliked Athena from the very beginning. Ah well, how boring the world would be if everyone thought the same, huh? I really disliked AAI2 as well; Yamazaki, who I believe is the main writer, really doesn't have a writing style that appeals to me, it would seem.

Nor will I ever understand his "dramatic bandages" fetish.

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