Surprisingly Powerful/Weak Units (Character Spoilers)

[Wayward Alchemist]

How is Leo? I haven't heard much about him. I would think that he makes a great Mage Killer.

[CocoaGalaxy]

How is Leo? I haven't heard much about him. I would think that he makes a great Mage Killer.

Eh, everyone can be a good mage killer. In theory anyway.

Leo tanks both sides fairly well, but his defense isn't nearly as good as say, Xander's

He's also "a little" slow

Edited July 16, 2015 by CocoaGalaxy

[Avarice Shadow]

Any thoughts regarding Orochi? How did she turn out for the people that used her?

[Nyanko]

So Marx is a good unit? Right after the game came out, people were saying he was just mediocre.

[CocoaGalaxy]

So Marx is a good unit? Right after the game came out, people were saying he was just mediocre.

Don't expect him to double the non slow (Generals, Dark Knight) enemies. He'll tank physical hits for days and dish out tons of damage at 1-2 range, but he can take alot from magic

[Mighty Kamina]

So Marx is a good unit? Right after the game came out, people were saying he was just mediocre.

Xander can take physical hits like a champ, and can straight up one shot many of the enemies with low-mediocre bulk when you get him, even on Lunatic mode. His speed is mediocre, and he often gets two shotted by mages though.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Monado Boy

[Fuzzlekins]

Any thoughts regarding Orochi? How did she turn out for the people that used her?

She's pretty good. The best first-gen magic user in my opinion. I was expecting her to be good though so I didn't mention her in this thread. :P

[Avarice Shadow]

She's pretty good. The best first-gen magic user in my opinion. I was expecting her to be good though so I didn't mention her in this thread. :P

Yes! Yes! I love the sound of that, it's like music to my ears! Thanks a lot! :D

Edited July 17, 2015 by Mystical_Ice

[Ayra]

Any thoughts regarding Orochi? How did she turn out for the people that used her?

She's pure magic power and accuracy, but nothing else.

Here's my level 20/12 Orochi (Exorcist):

HP: 28

Strength: 3

Magic: 37 (Capped)

Skill: 29

Speed: 13

Luck: 14

Defense: 11

Resist: 21

In other words, she gets one shot by 100% of physical enemies and she gets doubled by everything that's not a general. She can usually survive one fight with an enemy mage (her resist is not that bad, but she gets doubled). The game is pretty focused on the player phase, and she deals a lot of frontloaded damage with awesome accuracy. This means that she's awesome at being at being a double attack partner (her one hit is going to hit hard) and killing off some enemies in one hit. I tend to make her stick with Rinkah; Rinkah's debuff and damage is enough to make Orochi finish off pretty much anything safely. With that said, you have to be extremely careful when using her (if there's any enemy in range, she's dead) and she can't attack anything that can counterattack her. Overall I'd say she's decent: I certainly favor her over Nyx or Tsukuyomi for example.

However, I'd say that Elise is much, much better than Orochi is. At least on my playthrough, a similar level Elise had just as much magic as Orochi, but also had in the high 30 speed and resistance; so not only she has as much raw power, but she's immune to magic and doubles every non-ninja enemy, as well as have better mobility. She still died in one physical hit, but she's immune to enemy casters and doubles instead of being doubled. Orochi's one single advantage was her skill.

[Nyanko]

Don't expect him to double the non slow (Generals, Dark Knight) enemies. He'll tank physical hits for days and dish out tons of damage at 1-2 range, but he can take alot from magic

Xander can take physical hits like a champ, and can straight up one shot many of the enemies with low-mediocre bulk when you get him, even on Lunatic mode. His speed is mediocre, and he often gets two shotted by mages though.

Thanks, guys!! That sounds good.

[Arkine]

She's pure magic power and accuracy, but nothing else.

Here's my level 20/12 Orochi (Exorcist):

HP: 28

Strength: 3

Magic: 37 (Capped)

Skill: 29

Speed: 13

Luck: 14

Defense: 11

Resist: 21

In other words, she gets one shot by 100% of physical enemies and she gets doubled by everything that's not a general. She can usually survive one fight with an enemy mage (her resist is not that bad, but she gets doubled). The game is pretty focused on the player phase, and she deals a lot of frontloaded damage with awesome accuracy. This means that she's awesome at being at being a double attack partner (her one hit is going to hit hard) and killing off some enemies in one hit. I tend to make her stick with Rinkah; Rinkah's debuff and damage is enough to make Orochi finish off pretty much anything safely. With that said, you have to be extremely careful when using her (if there's any enemy in range, she's dead) and she can't attack anything that can counterattack her. Overall I'd say she's decent: I certainly favor her over Nyx or Tsukuyomi for example.

However, I'd say that Elise is much, much better than Orochi is. At least on my playthrough, a similar level Elise had just as much magic as Orochi, but also had in the high 30 speed and resistance; so not only she has as much raw power, but she's immune to magic and doubles every non-ninja enemy, as well as have better mobility. She still died in one physical hit, but she's immune to enemy casters and doubles instead of being doubled. Orochi's one single advantage was her skill.

Maybe if someone stick a Nosferatu tome on her and find a way to get her Defense Formation from general, Orochi would be able to pseudo-Nostank... Hn...

[Bovinian]

Maybe if someone stick a Nosferatu tome on her and find a way to get her Defense Formation from general, Orochi would be able to pseudo-Nostank... Hn...

Nostanking probably won't be too effective if most physical attackers will do a lot more damage to her than she can heal :/

[Ayra]

Nostanking probably won't be too effective if most physical attackers will do a lot more damage to her than she can heal :/

Actually, she gets 1-shot so its even more useless. I just looked at my chapter 23 Hoshido save, and most physical enemies have around 40 attack, and her effective HPs for my level 20/12 Orochi is 39. It only gets worse from then on, of course.

[Arkine]

Nostanking probably won't be too effective if most physical attackers will do a lot more damage to her than she can heal :/

That's true... But assuming Orochi would have to go through General for Defense Formation, she'd probably get Pavise as well and that might help her since she has a high skill stat. She also has access to Tomefaire to help her and Knight also comes with Great Knight which can give her Luna that can compensate a little for her inability to crit with Nosferatu on her... Then again I'm not even sure if Orochi can access the Knight tree all together, she looks pretty viable if she can tho.

[CocoaGalaxy]

That's true... But assuming Orochi would have to go through General for Defense Formation, she'd probably get Pavise as well and that might help her since she has a high skill stat. She also has access to Tomefaire to help her and Knight also comes with Great Knight which can give her Luna that can compensate a little for her inability to crit with Nosferatu on her... Then again I'm not even sure if Orochi can access the Knight tree all together, she looks pretty viable if she can tho.

Well relying on Pavise isn't really a good idea imo.

From what I was told, Nosferatu can't activate Luna (or anything else for that matter) either, so no luck with that either

[Minischew]

That's true... But assuming Orochi would have to go through General for Defense Formation, she'd probably get Pavise as well and that might help her since she has a high skill stat. She also has access to Tomefaire to help her and Knight also comes with Great Knight which can give her Luna that can compensate a little for her inability to crit with Nosferatu on her... Then again I'm not even sure if Orochi can access the Knight tree all together, she looks pretty viable if she can tho.

Orochi can't access the Knight tree. I'm pretty sure the only characters with access to the Knight tree are Benoit and Effie (and Crimson, but that's her third alternative), and she can't support either of them. If you really want to give her that tree, you'll have to marry her to Kamui.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Minischew

[Arkine]

Well relying on Pavise isn't really a good idea imo.

From what I was told, Nosferatu can't activate Luna (or anything else for that matter) either, so no luck with that either

It never is, but a chance to defend is better than no defense whatsoever, if you're right about no skill activation with Nosferatu, that'll really hurt whatever this build I'm trying to make for Orochi.... Then again I'm not tik experiences with her as a unit. It would also help me to actually use her instead of just chucking Ryouma into an enemy hoard and let Takumi snipe everything in just about every battle lol...

[astrophys]

So, based on that Ch. 23, 40 physical attack statistic….

I had been playing around with calculations involving a +MAG/-DEF Dark Knight, leveling through Nohr Princess (and picking up one Falcon Knight level) and then going to 20 promoted as Dark Knight…

I was ending up with 43.65 HP (predicted) and 22.1 Def (predicted) for 20/20 with said DEF flaw….

So you were reporting about 20/12 as a level at Ch. 23…. so if I regress back by 8 levels, at 60% HP growth (45%+15%) and 40% Def growth (25% due to flaw +15%)

Predicted 20/12: 38.85 HP, 18.9 Def

So such a -DEF Avatar would be roughly 2-shotted… 40- 18.9 = 21.1.

Of course, this is just sticking to averages predictions, but in that case, if I slapped a Dracoshield onto my Avatar…. predicted 20.9 defense, so a predicted 19.1 damage…. this basically puts me at the cusp of the threshold of surviving two hits on average… 38.85 predicted HP - 19.1 HP x 2 = 0.65…. but of course, actually realized numbers have to be whole numbers in this game… so a tad over the HP prediction (39 HP) would enable such a -DEF Dragon-Shielded avatar to survive 2 hits, right?

So a Seraph Robe and a Dracoshield would then tend to put my predicted averages in the territory of surviving two hits (dying on the third) even under the dis-advantage of a -DEF flaw? (38.85 + 5 = 43.85 HP at 20/12; 18.9 +2 = 20.9 DEF at 20/12)…

Is this understanding correct?

[Avarice Shadow]

She's pure magic power and accuracy, but nothing else.

Here's my level 20/12 Orochi (Exorcist):

HP: 28

Strength: 3

Magic: 37 (Capped)

Skill: 29

Speed: 13

Luck: 14

Defense: 11

Resist: 21

In other words, she gets one shot by 100% of physical enemies and she gets doubled by everything that's not a general. She can usually survive one fight with an enemy mage (her resist is not that bad, but she gets doubled). The game is pretty focused on the player phase, and she deals a lot of frontloaded damage with awesome accuracy. This means that she's awesome at being at being a double attack partner (her one hit is going to hit hard) and killing off some enemies in one hit. I tend to make her stick with Rinkah; Rinkah's debuff and damage is enough to make Orochi finish off pretty much anything safely. With that said, you have to be extremely careful when using her (if there's any enemy in range, she's dead) and she can't attack anything that can counterattack her. Overall I'd say she's decent: I certainly favor her over Nyx or Tsukuyomi for example.

However, I'd say that Elise is much, much better than Orochi is. At least on my playthrough, a similar level Elise had just as much magic as Orochi, but also had in the high 30 speed and resistance; so not only she has as much raw power, but she's immune to magic and doubles every non-ninja enemy, as well as have better mobility. She still died in one physical hit, but she's immune to enemy casters and doubles instead of being doubled. Orochi's one single advantage was her skill.

Hmm... Orochi really sounds like the definition of glass cannon. I thought that would be the case but I figured that she'd be able to take a hit maybe. I didn't think she'd be accurate (so that is really good to hear ^_^). She certainly seems like you would need to know what you're doing to play her effectively. Thanks a lot for this! Edited July 17, 2015 by Mystical_Ice

[tacticianwhite]

By any chance, does anyone know how good Charlotte is? I'm interested in using her, so I'm hoping she's not .... too bad.

[Arkine]

Orochi can't access the Knight tree. I'm pretty sure the only characters with access to the Knight tree are Benoit and Effie (and Crimson, but that's her third alternative), and she can't support either of them. If you really want to give her that tree, you'll have to marry her to Kamui.

Well shoot... I was hoping she'd be able to Romance or A+ someone with Knight on Invisible, but I guess that's what multiple save files are for... Endless waifu-ing

[nordopolica]

By any chance, does anyone know how good Charlotte is? I'm interested in using her, so I'm hoping she's not .... too bad.

I used her in my endgame party! Strength is almighty and she's got crit rate comin' out the wazoo but her speed isn't great (not terrible either) and a couple hits and she's dead, especially if she's anywhere near a mage. I think she's a fun unit, don't know if she's necessarily "optimal" but that damage sure is helpful.

[XeKr]

So, based on that Ch. 23, 40 physical attack statistic….

I had been playing around with calculations involving a +MAG/-DEF Dark Knight, leveling through Nohr Princess (and picking up one Falcon Knight level) and then going to 20 promoted as Dark Knight…

I was ending up with 43.65 HP (predicted) and 22.1 Def (predicted) for 20/20 with said DEF flaw….

So you were reporting about 20/12 as a level at Ch. 23…. so if I regress back by 8 levels, at 60% HP growth (45%+15%) and 40% Def growth (25% due to flaw +15%)

Predicted 20/12: 38.85 HP, 18.9 Def

So such a -DEF Avatar would be roughly 2-shotted… 40- 18.9 = 21.1.

Of course, this is just sticking to averages predictions, but in that case, if I slapped a Dracoshield onto my Avatar…. predicted 20.9 defense, so a predicted 19.1 damage…. this basically puts me at the cusp of the threshold of surviving two hits on average… 38.85 predicted HP - 19.1 HP x 2 = 0.65…. but of course, actually realized numbers have to be whole numbers in this game… so a tad over the HP prediction (39 HP) would enable such a -DEF Dragon-Shielded avatar to survive 2 hits, right?

So a Seraph Robe and a Dracoshield would then tend to put my predicted averages in the territory of surviving two hits (dying on the third) even under the dis-advantage of a -DEF flaw? (38.85 + 5 = 43.85 HP at 20/12; 18.9 +2 = 20.9 DEF at 20/12)…

Is this understanding correct?

And then you Guard Stance with Great/Dark Knight Jakob for +7ish defense and are now 4hko'd >_>

(well 5-6hko after accounting for dual guard. plus dodgy against Axes/Bows if using magic (Horse God is great and more Def). You'll be fine)

Edited July 17, 2015 by XeKr

[Ayra]

So, based on that Ch. 23, 40 physical attack statistic….

I had been playing around with calculations involving a +MAG/-DEF Dark Knight, leveling through Nohr Princess (and picking up one Falcon Knight level) and then going to 20 promoted as Dark Knight…

I was ending up with 43.65 HP (predicted) and 22.1 Def (predicted) for 20/20 with said DEF flaw….

So you were reporting about 20/12 as a level at Ch. 23…. so if I regress back by 8 levels, at 60% HP growth (45%+15%) and 40% Def growth (25% due to flaw +15%)

Predicted 20/12: 38.85 HP, 18.9 Def

So such a -DEF Avatar would be roughly 2-shotted… 40- 18.9 = 21.1.

Of course, this is just sticking to averages predictions, but in that case, if I slapped a Dracoshield onto my Avatar…. predicted 20.9 defense, so a predicted 19.1 damage…. this basically puts me at the cusp of the threshold of surviving two hits on average… 38.85 predicted HP - 19.1 HP x 2 = 0.65…. but of course, actually realized numbers have to be whole numbers in this game… so a tad over the HP prediction (39 HP) would enable such a -DEF Dragon-Shielded avatar to survive 2 hits, right?

So a Seraph Robe and a Dracoshield would then tend to put my predicted averages in the territory of surviving two hits (dying on the third) even under the dis-advantage of a -DEF flaw? (38.85 + 5 = 43.85 HP at 20/12; 18.9 +2 = 20.9 DEF at 20/12)…

Is this understanding correct?

That sounds pretty much correct, yes. Most characters seems to falls somewhere between "die in two hits" and "barely survive two hits". 39 HP and 19 defense around chapter 23 does fit around the "may or may not die in two hits" range.

One thing to note is that debuffs are very common: Enemy lancers often have the -6 Def skill, ninjas and maids abound with their kunais, and on the Nohr path, there's usually a few "-4 to all stats" staff users. What looks to be acceptable defenses on the status screen often does not translate in the actual gameplay. For reference sake, my Belka at chapter 23 had 36 HP, 19 Speed, 26 Def and 12 Res: I was not trusting her to tank more than one single attack due to these debuffs (especially since she would get doubled if hit with any -speed debuff).

[astrophys]

A fair point… I had neglected to consider that…

So it would be key to debuff the enemy as well where possible, build in extra stats as a safety margin, use tonics, etc…

I got a bit further distracted and looked up supposed locations of the stat boosting items… Source:

https://kantopia.wordpress.com/2015/06/23/fire-emblem-fates-importers-source-chapter-data-ongoing/

There seem to be two angelic/seraph robes before that chapter, as well as two dragon shields, so I suppose if I wanted to show Kamui/Corrin favoritism (seeing that he is the lord unit, after all), I could have a +10 HP boost and +4 def boost beyond the predicted (+5 and +2 more than the example where I assumed one of each)…

48.85 HP and 22.9 DEF ---> 40 attack enemies deal 17.1 damage (of course, everything will actually be in whole numbers, and there is random variance)… survive two hits, killed on third, before de-buffs are considered…

If I added in Horse God (as I'm assuming a tome using Dark Knight here, with the calculated growths) that's +3 DEF… 25.9 DEF predicted with the favoritism of two Dracoshields…. 14.1 damage taken… now I should be surviving 3 hits prior to de-buffs… (Jakob could be substituted in instead of using Horse God for the same three less damage taken)…. Felicia should achieve the same effect (15.1 damage predicted, 15-16 damage in practice before rebuffs, still survive three hits)…

Horse God and Jakob would reduce damage by 28.9…. 5HKO….

Demoiselle… getting into the territory of 5HKO….

Interesting….

But as you said, debuts could really mess with these thresholds….