Surprisingly Powerful/Weak Units (Character Spoilers)

[Mighty Kamina]

By any chance, does anyone know how good Charlotte is? I'm interested in using her, so I'm hoping she's not .... too bad.

Charlotte has fantastic growth rates in Strength and Speed (both are at 75%!), and decent bases for her level. Her problem that made her unusable for me (I didn't want to baby her) on Lunatic is that she comes at level 10 in chapter 13, and I already had Arthur at level 15.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Monado Boy

[tacticianwhite]

Charlotte has fantastic growth rates in Strength and Speed, and decent bases for her level. Her problem that made her unusable for me (I didn't want to baby her) on Lunatic is that she comes at level 10 in chapter 13, and I already had Arthur at level 15.

I used her in my endgame party! Strength is almighty and she's got crit rate comin' out the wazoo but her speed isn't great (not terrible either) and a couple hits and she's dead, especially if she's anywhere near a mage. I think she's a fun unit, don't know if she's necessarily "optimal" but that damage sure is helpful.

Okay, thanks! Apart from defense, it sounds like she's a pretty decent character.

[The Geek]

Wow, it sounds like IS really tried their hardest to keep low-man tanking from being a viable option.

[Frelia]

Oh yeah I was wondering about someone. How is Pieri? Is she as good at killing as she says?

Edited July 17, 2015 by Frelia

[Mighty Kamina]

Oh yeah I was wondering about someone. How is Pieri? Is she as good at killing as she says?

Pieri joins alongside Lazward in chapter 12. They are both a bit underlevel'd but Lazward has slightly better bulk. They both take a bit of effort to get going, but so far they seem to have been worth it. With class growth rates added, Pieri has a 65% strength growth, and a 60% speed growth so her offence is quite good.

Wow, it sounds like IS really tried their hardest to keep low-man tanking from being a viable option.

This game does not want you to low-man it. Even my bulkiest units quickly fall to mages, and enemies love to attack in groups and aggro on certain turn numbers, so you'll be overwhelmed if you try to low-man.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Monado Boy

[Keaton the wise]

How are the 3 ninja units? I've seen lot of praise for Kaze.

[B.Leu]

I dunno why, but my Great Knight Elfie lv 8 is frail as crap. It must be because she get doubled a lot but geez. :/
Pieri is better and she is level 6 Great Knight.

Stats comparison:

Elfie, Great Knight lv 8

Str: 25 Ma: 0 Skl: 17 Spd: 13 Lck: 17 Def: 21 (+2 with Def+2), Res: 9

Pieri, Great Knigh lV6

Str: 29 Mag: 1 Skl: 21 Spd: 26 Lck:17 Def: 23 Res: 15

If I had know, I would have trained Cyrus more, or someone else.:/

That, or Elfie is only good as Knight and General.

[Thor Odinson]

Effie has a almost a 7 point str screwage, roughly 6 point speed screwage, and 4 point def screwage going by the growths posted to the main site. General and GK have the same exact defense growth, as well. I think the RNG just hated Effie on your run.

This is going by Nohr bases though, Her base speed is pretty low for her jointime and didn't increase over 2 additional levels in Invis (but would still be higher than 13 on average if she got to 20/8 GK anyway), if that's what you're going by instead.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Thor Odinson

[B.Leu]

Yeah, Pieri and Elfie were both promoted at lv20... though Pieri might have been promoted at lv19.

Hm, It looks like Elfie really was bashed very hard by the RNG. It's always sad to see that. :/

So, I guess I'll have to buff her by stats-enhancing Items that I usually don't use. But it's worth it right ?

All in all, thank you very much for your answer ! It helps me a lot. :D

Edited July 17, 2015 by B.Leu

[Thor Odinson]

If she's your fav, do the favoritism thing

Yeah the str is what surprised me the most tbh because, going by main site stats again, Effie has a whooping 80% str growth as both Knight and GK. To have gotten a 7 point screwage with a growth so high is

well

damn.

[Psyruby]

I dunno why, but my Great Knight Elfie lv 8 is frail as crap. It must be because she get doubled a lot but geez. :/

Pieri is better and she is level 6 Great Knight.

I actually ran a giant Excel spreadsheet of all characters and what class has their ideal additional growth rates. PIeri's ideal class IS the Great Knight, Effie is weird, but basically General is much better for her.

[Frelia]

Pieri joins alongside Lazward in chapter 12. They are both a bit underlevel'd but Lazward has slightly better bulk. They both take a bit of effort to get going, but so far they seem to have been worth it. With class growth rates added, Pieri has a 65% strength growth, and a 60% speed growth so her offence is quite good.

Oh I see. Thank you for answering my question. I will most certainly consider giving those two a chance on my normal classic Nohr run.

[Ebony]

Yooooo, how's Benoit or Flora? I gotta know.

[DragonFlames]

Finally, Hana is a liability. I thought she'd be amazing: Finally a sword master with good strength! And as mentionned earlier, specialists are generally better in this game... Except that her durability is just too poor. She can't even attack axes users safely: She usually still has 20% or so to be hit even on offense and at equivalent level to the enemy, she dies in one hit. So if you attack an axe user, you have basically a 15% to have to reset the game (adjusting for astra/crit). If she gets attacked on the enemy phase, odds are she's dead. She gets sliiightly better due to increased evasion later on, but she's still more hindrance than help. This held true so far in two Hoshido playthrough (kicked her out at level 15 on first playthrough, used her for entire second playthough) as well as my current third path playthrough.

B-but she can be good and useful, right? Right?

[astrophys]

I'm wondering if she'd be better used in her War Priestess class change (disclaimer: I DO NOT have the game and won't until 2016)… this is pure theory crafting… trust the opinions of people who actually have the game over mine…

Hana's growth rates:

25% Hp, 55% Str, 10% Mag, 45% Skl, 55% Spd, 25% Lck, 20% Def, 30% Res

Trueblade Growths:

10% HP, 10% Str, 5% Mag, 15% Skl, 20% Spd, 15% Lck, 0% Def, 10% Res

War Priestess Growths:

10% HP, 10% Str, 10% Mag, 5% Skl, 15% Spd, 15% Lck, 0% Def, 20% Res

War Priestess Hana's growth rates:

35% Hp, 65% Str, 20% Mag, 50% Skl, 70% Spd, 40% Lck, 20% Def, 50% Res

Same HP, STR, and DEF growth as a Truebalde, and only slightly worse speed…. superior RES growth…. and she'd get access to a 1-2 range weapon that is capable of doubling. Maybe with 50% RES growth and high strength growth she could be something of a Mage Killer?

[DragonFlames]

I'm wondering if she'd be better used in her War Priestess class change (disclaimer: I DO NOT have the game and won't until 2016)… this is pure theory crafting… trust the opinions of people who actually have the game over mine…

Hana's growth rates:

25% Hp, 55% Str, 10% Mag, 45% Skl, 55% Spd, 25% Lck, 20% Def, 30% Res

Trueblade Growths:

10% HP, 10% Str, 5% Mag, 15% Skl, 20% Spd, 15% Lck, 0% Def, 10% Res

War Priestess Growths:

10% HP, 10% Str, 10% Mag, 5% Skl, 15% Spd, 15% Lck, 0% Def, 20% Res

War Priestess Hana's growth rates:

35% Hp, 65% Str, 20% Mag, 50% Skl, 70% Spd, 40% Lck, 20% Def, 50% Res

Same HP, STR, and DEF growth as a Truebalde, and only slightly worse speed…. superior RES growth…. and she'd get access to a 1-2 range weapon that is capable of doubling. Maybe with 50% RES growth and high strength growth she could be something of a Mage Killer?

Another option would be to switch her to Priestess and let her acquire Miracle. Or let her marry someone who gets Pavise. That way, she gets a bit more survivability. Well, if she's not worth it, I'll just make my own character a Trueblade... or I'll just use Ryoma.

It's a bit sad, though. Her supports with male Kamui are actually some of the best supports I've read in any Fire Emblem game.

Edited July 17, 2015 by DragonFlames

[XeKr]

Benoit: Generals are good with Defensive Formation

Flora: Comes late, but is decent staff or debuff filler. Slow though.

Hana: Training up Bow rank from scratch might be a little tedious (or you can save arms scrolls), though it does get around the glass cannon problem somewhat.

[astrophys]

Perhaps Seraph's Robe could help her significantly, if you were willing to make the sacrifice for the sake of a unit you really want to use? Would it let her survive one physical hit?

[Devola]

Perhaps Seraph's Robe could help her significantly, if you were willing to make the sacrifice for the sake of a unit you really want to use? Would it let her survive one physical hit?

The problem is... low HP is a wide spread issue among many troops so... bluntly speaking a lot of other units can just as well benefit from Seraph's robe, some more so than others have a slightly better combination of HP and def/res. That aside, its really a matter of whether you like the character or not but just saying Seraph robe's are going to be in high enough demand as is so its really between you trying to min/max or just helping along a favorite, but even then don't expect it to solve the issue entirely for some units who have such bad HP bases anyway.

[Bovinian]

The problem is... low HP is a wide spread issue among many troops so... bluntly speaking a lot of other units can just as well benefit from Seraph's robe, some more so than others have a slightly better combination of HP and def/res. That aside, its really a matter of whether you like the character or not but just saying Seraph robe's are going to be in high enough demand as is so its really between you trying to min/max or just helping along a favorite, but even then don't expect it to solve the issue entirely for some units who have such bad HP bases anyway.

Best to use it on a unit that has good defensive growths but terrible HP, though I don't recall any particular units off the top of my head who fit this category. Someone like Azura would not use it very well because even with a boost to her terrible HP, her defense is so bad that she will be getting one shot regardless. Unfortunately Hana also seems to suffer the same problem

[astrophys]

Oh, of course… I don't have the game, but from reading Kirokan's wordpress which lists the items in the various chapters, it seems that there are only two Seraphs Robes or so in the main game of Hoshido that can be bought for free, plus another one in the store for 10,000.

I myself would much rather use those robes on a unit like my lord unit as they basically are always going to be used (and also have a higher base HP growth to begin with, as well as better DEF growth even with a DEF flaw, and thus better durability overall).

My point was more along the lines that if someone wanted to play favorites, they could potentially save a favorite unit from one-shot territory, even if it would be silly to do that from min-max standpoints.

I have no particular attachment to Hana and wouldn't do this. But perhaps its a worthwhile sacrifice to someone who is a big fan of her character or who wants to "waifu" her in the game.

[Devola]

My point was more along the lines that if someone wanted to play favorites, they could potentially save a favorite unit from one-shot territory, even if it would be silly to do that from min-max standpoints.

Just saying this won't solve the one-shot issue for some units okay, like I said there are some units with such horrid HP that you'd need heavy investment to avoid that altogether. Yeah every bit of HP helps but when you have issues with your def/res adding to bad speed anyways leaving you vulnerable to being doubled its kinda... an uphill battle.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Devola

[astrophys]

Well, yes, it would probably have to be something obscene like TWO Seraph robes and a pair of Dracoshields or something crazy like that…

Is it worth it? By almost any objective standard, the answer would be no: they would be far better spent on other units.

Could you do it? I suppose you could, yes.

I suppose Hana may still have use as a Guard-stance pair-up bot… you know, for +SPD.

[Xeniferos]

Benoit: Generals are good with Defensive Formation

Flora: Comes late, but is decent staff or debuff filler. Slow though.

Hana: Training up Bow rank from scratch might be a little tedious (or you can save arms scrolls), though it does get around the glass cannon problem somewhat.

I plan on using Benoit heavily, so this relieves me some.

Has anyone else used Benoit at all? I figure with Defensive Formation he must be a pretty decent tank (especially after considering having him marry Elise, who'll eventually have access to Battle Command, her personal skill, and Demoiselle; -6 Damage Reduction).

He also gets Sol as a Brave Hero, so that could make him decently survivable, though he'll only get 1 attack in per phase with DF.

I've also put a few builds together with him as a Berserker, but that's iffy because of his terrible SPD growth, and having DF defeats the purpose of Berserker as a class, I think.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Xeniferos

[DragonFlames]

Oh, of course… I don't have the game, but from reading Kirokan's wordpress which lists the items in the various chapters, it seems that there are only two Seraphs Robes or so in the main game of Hoshido that can be bought for free, plus another one in the store for 10,000.

I myself would much rather use those robes on a unit like my lord unit as they basically are always going to be used (and also have a higher base HP growth to begin with, as well as better DEF growth even with a DEF flaw, and thus better durability overall).

My point was more along the lines that if someone wanted to play favorites, they could potentially save a favorite unit from one-shot territory, even if it would be silly to do that from min-max standpoints.

I have no particular attachment to Hana and wouldn't do this. But perhaps its a worthwhile sacrifice to someone who is a big fan of her character or who wants to "waifu" her in the game.

Right. I just asked because going from her supports, I really like her character so far. Too bad she's worthless. Oh, well...

I'm not that much into the whole "waifu" business, but I always had a special something for girls who could wield swords in RPGs, mainly because most women in RPGs are often-times healers or mages, so it was a nice change. I guess I'll just have a female character in Hoshido, then, because the other Hoshido females don't appeal to me that much character-wise and I'm not really that big of a fan of Felicia either (they overdid it with the whole cuteness factor), Azura is indeed SPOILER ALERT blood related to you, and Sakura is your little (step-)sister and she's underaged to boot, so yeah... female Kamui in Hoshido it is, then!

Edited July 17, 2015 by DragonFlames