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Choosing the Best Class for Silas (Week Two)

Which is the best class for Silas?  

52 members have voted

  1. 1. Optimization Poll: Which is the optimal class for Silas?

    • Basara
      1
    • Berserker
      2
    • Blacksmith
      0
    • Bow Knight
      1
    • Brave Hero
      11
    • Butler
      0
    • Dark Knight
      0
    • Elite Ninja
      0
    • Exorcist
      0
    • Falcon Warrior
      0
    • General
      1
    • Golden-Kite Warrior
      0
    • Great Knight
      10
    • Holy Bowman
      1
    • Holy Lancer
      0
    • Mountain Priest
      0
    • Paladin
      17
    • Puppeteer
      1
    • Revenant Knight
      0
    • Shura
      0
    • Sorcerer
      0
    • Strategist
      0
    • Trueblade
      1
    • Weapon Master
      1
    • Wyvern Lord
      0
    • I don't really know.
      5
  2. 2. Practicality Poll (Hoshido): Which is the most practical class for Silas in the Hoshido campaign?

    • Basara
      1
    • Blacksmith
      0
    • Bow Knight
      0
    • Brave Hero
      5
    • Butler
      0
    • Elite Ninja
      0
    • Exorcist
      0
    • Falcon Warrior
      0
    • Golden-Kite Warrior
      0
    • Great Knight
      16
    • Holy Bowman
      1
    • Holy Lancer
      0
    • Mountain Priest
      1
    • Paladin
      25
    • Puppeteer
      0
    • Shura
      1
    • Strategist
      0
    • Trueblade
      0
    • Weapon Master
      1
    • I'm going to bench Silas.
      1
  3. 3. Practicality Poll (Nohr): Which is the most practical class for Silas in the Nohr campaign?

    • Berserker
      2
    • Bow Knight
      0
    • Brave Hero
      9
    • Butler
      2
    • Dark Knight
      0
    • Elite Ninja
      1
    • Falcon Warrior
      0
    • General
      0
    • Golden-Kite Warrior
      0
    • Great Knight
      16
    • Holy Bowman
      0
    • Paladin
      19
    • Puppeteer
      0
    • Revenant Knight
      0
    • Sorcerer
      0
    • Strategist
      0
    • Wyvern Lord
      0
    • I'm going to bench Silas.
      3
  4. 4. Preference Poll: Which class do you like the best for Silas?

    • Basara
      1
    • Berserker
      2
    • Blacksmith
      0
    • Bowman
      0
    • Bow Knight
      1
    • Brave Hero
      7
    • Butler
      1
    • Cavalier
      2
    • Dark Knight
      0
    • Dark Mage
      0
    • Elite Ninja
      1
    • Exorcist
      0
    • Falcon Warrior
      0
    • Fighter
      0
    • General
      1
    • Golden-Kite Warrior
      0
    • Great Knight
      9
    • Holy Bowman
      2
    • Holy Lancer
      1
    • Knight
      0
    • Lance Fighter
      0
    • Mercenary
      0
    • Mountain Priest
      0
    • Ninja
      0
    • Oni Savage
      0
    • Paladin
      22
    • Pegasus Warrior
      0
    • Puppeteer
      1
    • Priest
      0
    • Revenant Knight
      0
    • Rod Knight
      0
    • Samurai
      0
    • Shura
      0
    • Spellcaster
      0
    • Sorcerer
      0
    • Strategist
      0
    • Trueblade
      0
    • Weapon Master
      0
    • Wyvern Lord
      1
    • Wyvern Rider
      0
  5. 5. Optional Poll: Which character would you like to vote on next week?

    • Hinoka
      3
    • Sakura
      0
    • Xander
      1
    • Camilla
      3
    • Leo
      9
    • Elise
      5
    • Felicia
      6
    • Kaze
      2
    • Nishiki
      4
    • Rinkah
      4
    • Nyx
      6
    • Lobster
      4
    • I don't really care.
      5


Recommended Posts

For the second week, we’re going to vote and discuss on the best class for Silas, who beat out his competitors with ease. Guess everyone has a soft spot for the childhood friend, hm?

Unlike our previous contestant and her unique class, Silas starts out as a Cavalier. In the Hoshido campaign, this tree can prove to be quite rare nonetheless, as it’s a Nohrian class. However, in the Nohr campaign, Pieri joins as a fellow Cavalier (and even further on, Xander joins as a Paladin). I wonder if this competition could affect Silas’s end class for Practicality polls.

The format for this post is similar as that of last week: the following spoiler tags will mostly contain information regarding Silas. For this week, I’ve added a short comparison between Silas and Pieri, and Silas’s predicted stats by promoted levels 10 and 40 according to his growth rates (the mechanics for how I calculated these stats can be found within the spoiler tag). As there’s quite a bit of information, I wouldn’t suggest reading all of it, but only looking through what you deem necessary. I’d advocate the use of Ctrl+F to target specific information. If you already know the necessary information, there’s no need to go through it; this information is here simply for your convenience.

(Also, I’m only human. If there are any mistakes within the information, please tell me so that I may correct it.)

Without further ado: Which is the best class for Silas?

[spoiler=Information Regarding the Marriage/Buddy Seals]

I’m not actually going to go over the really general information, since I’m pretty sure most of you know about it already. But if you have no idea what these seals are, check out the items page or this post. Anyhow…

  • Nishiki, Flannel, Azura, and Mozume provide access to their secondary class trees, as their starting class trees are unique to them (and in some cases, their children).

(The credit for the following bullet points go to Astrophys, who I copied the wording from, and the other SF members on the Marriage Seals post that clarified this issue.)

  • If there is no primary class tree overlap between the characters, the simplest case scenario plays out: they both get each other’s primary class trees.

  • If the characters share each other’s primary class trees, they get each other’s secondary class trees.

  • If a spouse’s (or buddy’s) primary class tree is the same as the character’s secondary class tree, the character does not receive any class tree.

    • There are certain exceptions to the last rule, but they mainly involve the Avatar.

If you’re still confused, let me use Silas as an example to try and clarify matters!

  • Let’s say Silas marries Azura. Azura’s secondary class tree is Pegasus Warrior, so Silas would receive the Pegasus Warrior tree.

  • Let’s say Silas marries Felicia. There is no primary class overlap between the two characters, so Silas would receive the Rod Knight tree.

  • Let’s say Silas marries Pieri. Both of these characters’ primary class tree is Cavalier. Thus, Silas would receive Pieri’s secondary class tree-- Dark Mage. (The vice versa would apply, in which Pieri would receive the Mercenary tree.)

  • Let’s say Silas marries Luna. Silas’s secondary class tree is Mercenary, and Luna’s primary class tree is Mercenary. Although Luna also has the Pegasus Warrior tree, Silas does not receive this; he receives no new class trees from Luna.

If you have any questions, shoot me a PM or leave a reply on the original post. The Marriage Seals post did a pretty good job of explaining the complexities, so feel free to check out that thread if you’re still confused.

[spoiler=Rules, Notices, & Clarifications]

Rules

  • Please be respectful! This is a huge given, but I still see people break it all the time. Don’t be arrogant-- your opinion is important, but hardly the end-all-- and please don’t be a troll.

  • I don’t want these polls to serve only for people who have played the game. Therefore, please be careful with spoilers. As we’re discussing classes, I’m assuming that most people are fine with gameplay spoilers. However, this does not guarantee that people are fine with story spoilers as well, so if you must bring them up, make sure to tag them as spoilers.

    • If you’re tagging story spoilers, leave an explanation. Many people may assume that you simply tagged it as a spoiler because it was a long post, or because it was related to gameplay. Clarify what exactly you’re tagging-- it doesn’t take that many words.

Notices

  • Felicia placed second in the optional poll, and Ryoma placed third. As such, Felicia will receive three additional votes, and Ryoma will receive one.

  • Takumi and Joker received zero votes, and as such, were eliminated from this week’s optional poll. As it has been proven that the forum does not wish to discuss them at the current moment, they have a waiting period of two weeks before they will be re-entered into the optional poll. As the victor, Silas has also been removed from this week’s optional poll.

    • The three characters have been replaced by Nishiki, Rinkah, and Nyx.

Clarification

  • If you’re confused as to what this post is all about, refer to the original post. It is currently Week Two, and Week One polls concerned Azura.

  • We are discussing the end class for Silas. You are free to consider reclassing options along the way (just make sure to factor in the cost of reclassing for the Practicality polls), but your vote should be based on your predicted end class.

  • We’re ignoring DLC classes; those are OP on any character. If we go through with post-release (for NA/Europe) polls, I plan to have polls regarding which characters should receive the DLC classes.

  • Children will not be introduced until after the game is released, or we have gone through all of the first-generation units.

  • We’re also ignoring any class options the Avatar may give to Silas. It introduces too many new variables.

  • There will not be Practicality polls for the Third Route. There’s simply no space on the polls for it.

  • I limited the Optimization/Practicality poll options to the promoted classes. I figured that in order to use Silas efficiently, he should be at a promoted class than at a base class.
  • I had to forgo the neutral option for the Preference poll because the max limit of options is 40, and Silas has access to 40 classes. And here I thought Azura's 35 was astounding...

  • Sorry for posting this on Sunday instead of Saturday! My clock runs three hours slow, so I hadn't realized that the day had passed.

[spoiler=Possible Classes]

  • Classes in red are ones Silas can only achieve in the Hoshido campaign.

  • Classes in black are ones Silas can only achieve in the Nohr campaign.

  • Classes in blue are ones Silas can achieve in either campaign (or in the Third Path).

Base Classes (8H, 7N, 15T)

  • Bowman

  • Cavalier

  • Dark Mage

  • Fighter

  • Knight

  • Lance Fighter

  • Mercenary

  • Ninja

  • Oni Savage

  • Pegasus Warrior

  • Priest

  • Rod Knight

  • Samurai

  • Spellcaster

  • Wyvern Rider

Promoted Classes (13H, 12N, 25T)

  • Basara

  • Berserker

  • Blacksmith

  • Bow Knight

  • Brave Hero

  • Butler

  • Dark Knight

  • Elite Ninja

  • Exorcist

  • Falcon Warrior

  • General

  • Golden-Kite Warrior

  • Great Knight

  • Holy Bowman

  • Holy Lancer

  • Mountain Priest

  • Paladin

  • Puppeteer

  • Revenant Knight

  • Shura

  • Sorcerer

  • Strategist

  • Trueblade

  • Weapon Master

  • Wyvern Lord

[spoiler=Expansion of Possible Classes]

Primary Base Class: Cavalier

Primary Promoted Classes: Great Knight, Paladin

Secondary Base Class: Mercenary

Secondary Promoted Classes: Bow Knight, Brave Hero

Marriage Seal Classes: These are organized alphabetically based on the localized names of the characters. I listed the Hoshido characters first, the Nohr characters second, and the shared characters last.

  • Hana: Samurai -> Trueblade, Weapon Master

  • Hinoka: Pegasus Warrior -> Falcon Warrior, Golden-Kite Warrior

  • Kagerou: Ninja -> Elite Ninja, Puppeteer

  • Oboro: Lance Fighter -> Basara, Holy Lancer

  • Orochi: Spellcaster -> Basara, Exorcist

  • Rinkah: Oni Savage -> Blacksmith, Shura

  • Sakura: Priest -> Exorcist, Mountain Priest

  • Setsuna: Bowman -> Golden-Kite Warrior, Holy Bowman

  • Berka: Wyvern Rider -> Revenant Knight, Wyvern Lord

  • Camilla: Wyvern Rider -> Revenant Knight, Wyvern Lord

  • Charlotte: Fighter -> Berserker, Brave Hero

  • Effie: Knight -> General, Great Knight

  • Elise: Rod Knight -> Butler, Strategist

  • Luna: n/a

  • Nyx: Dark Mage -> Dark Knight, Sorcerer

  • Pieri: Dark Mage -> Dark Knight, Sorcerer

  • Azura: Pegasus Warrior -> Falcon Warrior, Golden-Kite Warrior

  • Felicia: Rod Knight -> Butler, Strategist

  • Mozume: Bowman -> Golden-Kite Warrior, Holy Bowman

Buddy Seal Classes: These are organized alphabetically based on the localized names of the characters. I listed the Hoshido characters first, the Nohr characters second, and the shared characters last.

  • Ryoma: Samurai -> Trueblade, Weapon Master

  • Joker: Rod Knight -> Butler, Strategist

  • Kaze: Ninja -> Elite Ninja, Puppeteer

[spoiler=Basic Information (inc. Profile, Recruitment Conditions, Base Stats))]

Profile

Silas is a fledgling Nohrian knight. He was born into a noble family, and during his childhood, he played together with the Avatar, his best friend. Despite his kind nature and camaraderie, he’s an exceptionally skilled knight for his age. He was born on November 1st, and has the curliest hair.

Recruitment Conditions

  • In the Hoshido campaign, Silas joins at the end of Chapter 7.

  • In the Nohr campaign, Silas joins at the start of Turn 3 of Chapter 7.

  • In the Third Path, Silas joins at the end of Chapter 14.

Base Stats

post-17084-0-65083900-1437278077_thumb.png*

*Refer to “Predicted Stats” for the calculation behind the Lvl. 10 stats.

[spoiler=Maximum Stats]

As I figured you only need this data for Optimization/Practicality polls, I only calculated the values for the promoted classes. The blue boxes represent the highest stat of the class, while the red boxes indicate the lowest. For classes that had more than one highest/lowest stat (e.g. Falcon Warrior with 34-34-34 and 27-27), I didn’t color the boxes.

post-17084-0-45321500-1437278083_thumb.png

Silas adds +1 Str, +2 Skl, -1 Lck, and -1 Res.

post-17084-0-48298400-1437278081_thumb.png

(If you can’t decipher the text on the attachments, use the Magnifying Glass to your advantage!)

[spoiler=Growth Rates]

The first chart shows Silas’s natural growths and his growths as a Cavalier.

The second chart shows the values of Silas's growth for different classes. As I figured you only need this data for Optimization/Practicality polls, I only calculated the values for the promoted classes. The blue boxes represent the highest growth rate of the class, while the red boxes indicate the lowest. For classes that had more than one highest/lowest growth rate (e.g. Paladin with 60-60), I didn’t color the boxes.

post-17084-0-24083700-1437278079_thumb.png

post-17084-0-84996100-1437278078_thumb.png

(If you can’t decipher the text on the attachments, use the Magnifying Glass to your advantage!)

[spoiler=Predicted Stats]

There are two charts for predicted stats. The first indicates the estimated stats at promoted level 10, and the second indicates the estimated stats at promoted level 40.

As I figured you only need this data for Optimization/Practicality polls, I only calculated the values for the promoted classes. The blue boxes represent the highest stat of the stat (e.g. Berserker had the highest Str stat of 31, so that box was highlighted in blue), while the red boxes indicate the lowest. For stats that didn’t have a clear high or low, I didn’t color the boxes (e.g. Mag). The green boxes represent capped stats.

post-17084-0-41191300-1437278084_thumb.png

post-17084-0-47859300-1437278088_thumb.png

Mechanics


The calculation behind the estimates are pretty simple. I feel that it works out well, but if you feel that the mechanics are wrong, feel free to tell me!


I made these estimates based on the assumption that a Master Seal would be used at Lvl. 10, which would reset the level back to Lvl. 1. Obviously, these aren’t going to be the most accurate estimates as Silas cannot directly Master Seal into some classes.


I’m also aware that not many people will Master Seal right at Lvl. 10, but during the earlier level-ups, Silas’s stats aren’t too different based on the classes. (The first two classes, Basara and Berserker, have fairly similar stats at Lvl. 10 despite one being a balanced class and the other being a specialized one.) These differences only become apparent later on, so for a really rough estimate of the base stats at higher levels than Lvl. 10, you can assume the Promoted Lvl. 10 is equivalent to Base Lvl. 20. (Emphasis is still on “really rough estimate,” though.)


*All decimal values were rounded down. If a stat exceeded the class’s max stat, it was rounded down to it.*


Expected Stats @ Base Lvl. 10: [base Stats] + 4 * [Growth Rate of Class]/100

Expected Stats @ Promoted Lvl. 10: [Expected Stats @ Base Lvl. 10] + 10 * [Growth Rate of Class]/100

Expected Stats @ Promoted Lvl. 40: [Expected Stats @ Base Lvl. 10] + 40 * [Growth Rate of Class]/100

[spoiler=Possible Skills]

(Credit goes to the SF staff, as all of this was taken from the main website.)

Personal Skill: Friendship Oath: If the Avatar is an ally, when the Avatar is under half HP, user’s damage +3 and damage received -3.

Skills are organized alphabetically based on the classes. Within the classes, skills are listed in the order of achievement (e.g. a GK earns Luna at Lvl. 5 and Diamond Strike at Lvl. 15, so Luna is listed before Diamond Strike).

Base class skills are listed before promoted class skills. Descriptions of skills Silas can acquire through her primary and secondary class trees are listed below.

Description of all the skills are located on the skills pages.

  • Skills in red are ones Silas can only achieve in the Hoshido campaign.

  • Skills in black are ones Silas can only achieve in the Nohr campaign.

  • Skills in blue are ones Silas can achieve in either campaign (or in the Third Path).

Base Class Skills

  • Bowman: Skill +2, Prescient Victory

  • Cavalier: Open Assault, Rescue

  • Dark Mage: Bind, Devilish Wind

  • Fighter: HP +5, Roundhouse

  • Knight: Defence +2, Confined Defence

  • Lance Fighter: Defence Seal, Substitute

  • Mercenary: Stubbornness, Patient Assurance

  • Ninja: Locktouch, Snake Venom

  • Oni Savage: Resistance Seal, Shove

  • Pegasus Warrior: Swallow Strike, Eastern Heart

  • Priest: Miracle, Rally Luck

  • Rod Knight: Resistance +2, Demoiselle

  • Samurai: Flowing Strike, Vantage

  • Spellcaster: Magic +2, Fortune

  • Wyvern Rider: Strength +2, Cut Through

Promoted Class Skills

  • Basara: Breaking Sky, Flamboyant

  • Berserker: Rally Strength, Axefaire

  • Blacksmith: Smithy Skill, Lancebreaker

  • Bow Knight: Rally Skill, Kunaibreaker

  • Brave Hero: Sol, Axebreaker

  • Butler: Servant’s Joy, Tomebreaker

  • Dark Knight: Magic Seal, Lifetaker

  • Elite Ninja: Lethality, Kunaifaire

  • Exorcist: Rally Magic, Tomefaire

  • Falcon Warrior: Rally Speed, Mirror Strike

  • General: Defensive Formation, Pavise

  • Golden-Kite Warrior: Soar, Sun God

  • Great Knight: Luna, Diamond Strike

  • Holy Bowman: Raven Strike, Bowfaire

  • Holy Lancer: Speed Seal, Lancefaire

  • Mountain Priest: Magic Counter, Renewal

  • Paladin: Defender, Aegis

  • Puppeteer: Puppet Break, Copycat Puppet*

  • Revenant Knight: Deadly Breath, Overbearing

  • Shura: Ogre Strike, Counter

  • Sorcerer: Vengeance, Bowbreaker

  • Strategist: Rally Resistance, Battle Command

  • Trueblade: Astra, Swordfaire

  • Weapon Master: Strength Seal, Line of Death

  • Wyvern Lord: Rally Defence, Swordbreaker

*I just wanted to point this skill out, as many people seem to consider it exceptional.

Open Assault: When user fights in a terrain with no terrain effects, damage +3 during battles

Rescue: Select the “Rescue” command to make an adjacent ally the user’s support unit

Luna: Skill% chance of ignoring half of the enemy’s Defence (is the user has a physical weapon) or Resistance (if the user has a magical weapon)

Diamond Strike: When user triggers the battle, physical damage received -10

Defender: When user is the lead unit in Guard Stance, all stats +1

Aegis: Skill% chance of halving damage from Bow, Magic, Kunai, Dragonstone, Breath, or Ballista attacks

Stubbornness: Luck% chance of recovering 20% HP at the start of the user’s Turn

Patient Assurance: When enemy triggers the battle, damage +3

Rally Skill: Skill +4 to all allies within a 2-tile radius for one Turn when the “Rally” command is used

Kunaibreaker: Hit Rate and Avoid +50 when the enemy is equipped with a kunai

Sol: Skill% chance of restoring half the damage dealt to the enemy

Axebreaker: Hit Rate and Avoid +50 when the enemy is equipped with an axe

[spoiler=Comparison Between Silas and Pieri]

As Pieri’s base stats are in terms of a Lvl. 10 Cavalier, I adjusted Silas’s stats to make the comparison apparent. The blue boxes indicate the higher stat between the two characters, and the red boxes indicate the lower.

post-17084-0-14588300-1437278091_thumb.png

  • Silas is bulkier, and has greater Skl. Two of the Cavalier tree’s arguably better skills, Aegis and Luna, are dependent on Skl activation.

  • Pieri is quicker, and has greater Res. She’s not quick enough to double everything, but she could probably serve as an efficient mage killer.

  • Silas’s personal skill and Pieri’s personal skill provide boosts under certain circumstances. Pieri’s conditions are a bit more difficult to meet, but her skill provides better boosts than Silas’s does.

  • Silas has Mercenary as his secondary class tree. This can be a useful tree for Silas, as the class is still physically-oriented and provides high Skill. On the other hand, Pieri has Dark Mage as her secondary class tree. Although her Resistance is high, her base Mag stat is a sad 0, and her Mag growth is simply 5.

    • Thus, it would be easier to reclass and train Silas than it would be to reclass and train Pieri.

  • Silas can marry every single female in the game, which gives him more class options. He also joins early on in the story, so it’s easier to establish various supports with him.

(I only stated points that were very obvious and left the rest unsaid. There’s bound to be more differences between the two.)

[spoiler=Summary]

It’s a bit interesting that all three classes were the same throughout the four polls. I suppose this really shows you that the forum has concluded on Silas’s three best classes. Here are the results:

Optimal Class

  1. Paladin (28.57%)

  2. Brave Hero (25.71%)

  3. Great Knight (17.14%)

Most Practical Class (Hoshido)

  1. Paladin (45.71%)

  2. Great Knight (31.43%)

  3. Brave Hero (8.57%)

Most Practical Class (Nohr)

  1. Paladin (31.43%)

  2. Great Knight (28.57%)

  3. Brave Hero (22.86%)

Preferred Class

  1. Paladin (45.71%)

  2. Brave Hero (14.29%)

  3. Great Knight (11.43%)

Upcoming Character

  1. Felicia (17.14%) [6+3 votes]

  2. Leo (17.14%) [6 votes]

  3. Nyx (14.29%)

(Felicia placed ahead of Leo because she got three additional votes from placing second last week.)

With this, the next character we are going to be discussing will be Felicia!

Sakura did not receive a single vote, she will not be included in the roster for next week’s poll. Leo and Nyx will “receive” extra votes (three and one respectively) for next week’s poll.

Forum Discussion

  • Basara Silas

    • Silas’s Mag growth is too low, but grinding allows him to max out the stat.

    • Basara has high max stats, which Silas could take advantage of if he’s grinding.

  • Brave Hero Silas

    • Silas’s strong stat is Skl, and Brave Hero gives him a higher Skl cap. The class gives him better proc rates, which would serve especially useful for Sol.

    • With some defensive skills and Brave Hero’s decent Def stat, Silas could hold his own.

  • General Silas

    • Silas has a decent Def growth that helps him serve as a tank. And General is the best class for Def. General also provides Pavise, which allows Silas to run PavGis.

    • Silas’s Spd growth isn’t the best, and Defensive Formation counters that problem.

    • Once the Avatar’s HP drops beneath 50%, Silas could serve as the Avatar’s tank. This would be beneficial as it would keep the Avatar’s health below 50% (which would provide Silas a boost from his personal skill) and keep the Avatar alive.

  • Great Knight Silas

    • The Hoshido campaign lacks good tanks, and GK gives Silas the highest Def. It also provides Diamond Strike, which reduces damage received by 10 when Silas initiate the battle.

    • Although Paladin gives Silas slightly better Res growth, Silas’s Res growth might be too weak and it may be better to focus on his other strengths instead.

    • The Nohr campaign has Xander, who joins as a Paladin. Having two Paladins could be a bit repetitive, so Silas is better off as a GK.

    • Great Knight provides access to Luna, and Silas has high Skl.

  • Holy Bowman Silas

    • The Hoshido campaign has a lot of archers, but the Nohr campaign does not, so Silas could be useful on the latter route.

    • Due to his decent Def growth, Silas could serve as a “front line” archer. While the Berserker class could also make Silas a front line archer, it reduces his Def. Additionally, Holy Bowman provides Silas with one of the highest Skl cap, and Silas’s best stat is Skl.

    • The Short Bow turns Silas into a literal front line archer with a range of 1.

    • Silas has access to tanky skills that could help his survivability (e.g. Stubbornness, Sol, Guard Stance, Aegis).

    • If Silas Buddy Seals with Kaze for Copycat Puppet, he can keep the puppet in the back to be healed so that he can withstand the onslaught better in the front. If the player uses this strategy for squishy units as well, this might not work out as well.

  • Paladin Silas

    • The Hoshido campaign lacks good tanks, and Paladin provides him with sufficient HP and Def to serve as a tank. It also gives him better Res and Mov, and access to (the defensive skill) Aegis.

    • The class gives Silas enough Str to hurt most enemies, and enough Spd to reliably double most enemies and avoid getting doubled.

    • The Paladin class is a balanced class that doesn’t really excel in one particular stat. Silas is a “jack of all trades, master of none” character whose stats line up with that of the Paladin class.

  • Puppeteer Silas

    • The class provides Silas with better Res growth, and a lot of Skl for proc’ing some of the skills Silas has natural access to (e.g. Sol, Luna).

    • Although Silas will have to build new weapon levels, Luna procs will help the low weapon MT. Additionally, low-level support bows and kunai will provide him with support/utility benefits.

    • The Hoshido campaign lacks good tanks, and Copycat Puppet allows Silas to serve as two tanks.

Builds/Routes

There’s only one build, which is for the Holy Bowman class. That was due to my request. Thanks for that!

(You can find Xylaugheon Daily’s build as well on this thread. I didn’t include it on here simply to stay consistent with the clarifications I set up, which state that we won’t be considering the classes the Avatar can give to the character. I recommend checking it out, although you’ll have to buy skills for Silas in order to achieve the build.)

Builds are more or less copied and pasted from their creators, although I did take a bit of liberty with changing the format. The credit obviously goes to them, and while it’s easy enough to scroll down the page to find them, I thought it might be a bit more convenient to have them here with the rest of the information. If you have a problem with me using your builds, just send me a PM or leave a response on this post.

[spoiler=Holy Bowman Silas (Either)]

Holy Bowman Silas (Either) <Credit goes to Tamarsamar>

Marriage Seal: Mozume (Either)/Setsuna (Hoshido)

Buddy Seal: Kaze

Class: Holy Bowman

Skills:

Copycat Puppet

Stubbornness

Sol

Sun God

*flex slot*

Edited by Riku

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Personally I find myself loving to pair Kamui with Silas (specially if I can get that 5/-5 goodness going!) hence why I voted my preferred class a General. Making him tanky isn't hard at all and he serves to protect the Avatar, which then lets me utilize the Avatar in different ways. If only Silas could get the Nohr skill. Sigh.

That said, I feel Brave Hero is his overall best. With a high skill cap, we get better proc rates. Sol is still a go to skill for me. Paired appropriately, you could stack on some nice defensive skills (Formation, Aegis, Pavise) and he'd be able to do some real work. Have him run attack stance with someone able to also hold their own and you can set them off alone and let them do their own thing.

In Hoshido we lack good tanks. With GKs higher defensive you think I'd choose it, but Paladin's defense is just fine with better resistance and movement, as well as access to Aegis, so that is what give the edge in his path. In Nohr, however, not only do we have more tanks, we have more Cavaliers. Going GK when we have Xander as a Paladin will not only give us diversity, it serves to put Silas front and center as a monster with Luna procs (even though GKs skill is meh.)

That said, I LOVE Sophie, so I typically try to consider her needs as well when determining what I'll do with Silas. Because of her personal skill, I tend to run her as kunai support and thus have no need for a lot of what Silas naturally passes down. That said, my favorite Sophie actually runs quite differently than how I intended, and she came out as a far heavier hitter than her pops!

Edited by Xylaugheon Daily

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So, first off his mag growth is utterly terrible, so any class that relies on magic is straight out. You could theoretically max out his magic with months of grinding for optimization, but it just isn't worth it since his strength mod is still higher.

In general, he does pretty good as any front line fighter type unit. He's got good str and skl growths, and decent speed and def. His res growth sucks so you'll ideally want to keep him away from mages though. Great knight is a great class for practicality in both routes, since it's in his base class tree, has good skills and stats/growths, and as a mounted unit Silas shouldn't have too much trouble engaging on his own terms. So I voted great knight in both practicality polls.

For optimization, I went with berserker instead. There are better berserkers in the game, but that's true for just about any class Silas would want. Poor guy suffers a bit from being a 'jack of all trades, master of none', he's fairly skilled but he doesn't really excel at anything compared to other characters. Berserker matches up fairly nicely with his strengths though, high str, good skl, and his low res and mag aren't too big of an issue since berserker either doesn't need it (mag) or sucks at it anyway (res). Berserker is just generally a good class as well, so there's that. He could do decently in a variety of classes, but honestly I probably wouldn't use him at all in an optimized team, if I did though for me it'd be berserker.

For preference I voted paladin. Silas is such an absolute sweetheart and I can definitely picture him as Kamui's knight in shining armour. Besides, it may not be the most optimal class around due to not really excelling at anything, but paladin is perfectly good in the main game.

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I don't think there's any better class for him on Hoshido than Great Knight. He has it by default, he doesn't need to build new weapon skill, he retains his mount, and he gets 60% HP and DEF, which is great for Hoshido and makes him one of your few reliable tanking options. Nohr doesn't need him in that role quite as badly, so my gut reaction is Paladin to pull up his RES, but Xander is going to come in as a Paladin already, and unless you don't mind using multiple Paladins (which I don't, actually, I love Paladin) it's probably not where you want to send Silas.

An unorthodox option that seems like it has potential is Puppeteer Silas. It has comparable stat caps to Paladin, better RES growth, a lot of SKL for Luna, and pretty good weapon selection. Of course it has the heavy disadvantage of Silas needing to build weapon levels on the non-grinding Nohr, but the nice thing is, Silas can use the low-level support bows and kunai (i.e. Fruit Knife, Violin Bow, Hard Bread, Prayer Candle, etc.) and reap some nice support or utility benefits while still holding a pretty steady tanking position and adding in Luna procs for nice bonus damage despite lower weapon MT. Since he'll be tanky-ish, Copycat Puppet also works well, giving you the ability to double your tanking with a unit that can protect its shared health pool better than some.

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In Hoshido we lack good tanks. With GKs higher defensive you think I'd choose it, but Paladin's defense is just fine with better resistance and movement, as well as access to Aegis, so that is what give the edge in his path.

I still feel that GK is the better option for the Hoshido campaign. Since Silas's Res growth is too weak for him to serve as an efficient magic tank, I'd rather focus on his Def than try to increase his Res. Additionally, even when most of Silas's stats are maxed out, the difference in Res between GK and Paladin is simply 2 (16 to 18, respectively), while the difference in Def between GK and Paladin is 4 (36 to 32, respectively). I also find that GK's Diamond Strike skill helps Silas tank better, as it reduces damage received by 10. Granted, a tank isn't usually the one initiating the battle, but I personally approach a more offensive tactic (even with my tanks), so I don't find the condition too troublesome.

I do agree that Aegis is a good skill for tanking, though, so I'd probably try to run through Silas as a Paladin and then reclass him to a GK as his end class (for optimization purposes, I'd probably go through General as well for PavGis, but that's a little unrealistic in a practical run-through). But if I find that Silas isn't a main unit, I'm fine with promoting him directly to a GK and suffering the Aegis loss.

Edited by Minischew

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This is more of a personal request, but does anyone have a decent build for Silas as a Holy Bowman? As you may have noticed in the poll, there's one person who put their preferred class as Holy Bowman-- that was me. I hardly think this is an optimal or practical class for Silas-- especially since he has to marry Mozume for the class, who's a far better candidate for it than he is--, but I still want him to be one nonetheless.

It's because Silas has a decent Def growth and access to tanking skills (e.g. Aegis) that allows him to endure enemy attacks, so I really love the idea of this brazen archer going all up in enemies' faces and sniping them down. Archers are for the back? Pshh, who came up with that rule? Silas is going to shoot you down! And since he has the highest Skl cap in Holy Bowman, he could score a lot of criticals as well.

...But it is true that archers are best used in the back, and I'll probably only use Silas as a Holy Bowman in a leisurely run-through. The idea of a "front line" archer simply intrigues me.

Edited by Riku

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^ I don't have the game so i don't know what skills to add, besides obvious survivability skills, but what route would this be on? As i don't know if you end up getting a short bow in Hoshido, and that bow would allow you to have a "True" frontline archer, as the horizontlal yumi can not double plus i think it is a randdom drop, and silas has 5% mag growth for the shining bow. I don't think a shortbow is very optimal (though it might help you get more sol activation on enemy phase at the very least) but as you said the idea of a frontline archer is intriguing, and the shortbow turns him into a literal frontline archer with 1 range.

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A game titled "if" is bound to be stuffed full of opportunity costs, and that is precisely what Silas is: a walking, talking, headache of an opportunity cost. His classes have nothing to offer with regards to endgame viability to any of the other characters, so he needs to both marry and buddy to get a good set, and even if he marries somebody who already has everything (like Orochi), he would simply be depriving that marriage from another unit on that route. He asks too much and offers too little to be at all a practical unit on the Nohr route.

I voted Basara for both Optimal and Hoshido polls simply because lolgrinding. While his Mag growth is too overwhelmingly low to be of much practical use without excessive commitment to the grind, to be honest I did not consider growths when making my choices for Azura, either--only maximum stats and skill access. So, it'd hardly be fair to single Silas out even for his blatantly awful growths in a 1:1 offensive stat, as that would imply that I would have to redo adjusted stat calculations for each and every character from here on in. That's way too much homework for a game that is not even available for me yet (though I will actually crunch personal growth rates before I play Conquest--and I have a gut feeling that Silas will likely end up comparatively lacking, anyway)! So, I just took the lazy way out and said "buddy to Kaze, marry to Orochi, maybe things will work out". That is, if you really insist on raising him on the Hoshido route, anyway.

With regards to making him a Holy Bowman (sure, why not, if you're on the Hoshido route you also have access to Setsuna, anyway), even if you give him access to 1-range bows he won't be that much different from a Berserker in practice . . . just with tons more accuracy and effectiveness against fliers. If you were to ask me, his best tanky skills don't come from his Cavalier tree, but his Mercenary one. With skills like Stubbornness and Sol and Guard Stance (particularly with a <50% HP Avatar), he could sustain himself against a prolonged onslaught better than most bow-wielding units I can think of.

Tanky Bowman Skill list:

Copycat Puppet (too many applications to list here, but one copy can still attack at range and be healed of the damage sustained by the "front line" copy)

Stubbornness

Sol

Sun God

*flex slot*

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^ I don't have the game so i don't know what skills to add, besides obvious survivability skills, but what route would this be on? As i don't know if you end up getting a short bow in Hoshido, and that bow would allow you to have a "True" frontline archer, as the horizontlal yumi can not double plus i think it is a randdom drop, and silas has 5% mag growth for the shining bow. I don't think a shortbow is very optimal (though it might help you get more sol activation on enemy phase at the very least) but as you said the idea of a frontline archer is intriguing, and the shortbow turns him into a literal frontline archer with 1 range.

Probably the IK campaign, since I suspect that my leisurely runthroughs will be on the route with the access to most characters, classes, and weapons. Granted, if it's not IK, I'm siding more towards Nohr than Hoshido, simply because Hoshido has Critkumi and it seems a bit silly to have Silas the archer with that beast around.

With regards to making him a Holy Bowman (sure, why not, if you're on the Hoshido route you also have access to Setsuna, anyway), even if you give him access to 1-range bows he won't be that much different from a Berserker in practice . . . just with tons more accuracy and effectiveness against fliers. If you were to ask me, his best tanky skills don't come from his Cavalier tree, but his Mercenary one. With skills like Stubbornness and Sol and Guard Stance (particularly with a <50% HP Avatar), he could sustain himself against a prolonged onslaught better than most bow-wielding units I can think of.

Tanky Bowman Skill list:

Copycat Puppet (too many applications to list here, but one copy can still attack at range and be healed of the damage sustained by the "front line" copy)

Stubbornness

Sol

Sun God

*flex slot*

Ah right, I forgot about Setsuna. I wasn't even considering her an option for Silas, because I heard she's a really good mom so I wanted to use her to optimize children. I don't like the idea of wasting her +3 Spd on Sophie, haha.

But that skill set makes sense. The only thing I'd be opposed to is Copycat Puppet, simply because Kaze could be used elsewhere. I'm probably not going to be using Holy Bowman Silas as a main unit, so I don't want to give him the Ninja class set just for CCP. Also, I don't think he'd have access to Sun God unless he married Hinoka or Azura... and since he has to marry Setsuna or Mozume for the Bowman tree, he probably can't declare polygamy and obtain Sun God.

EDIT: I assumed that each character would be limited to receiving only one A+ support, but now that I think about it, I don't remember hearing anything of that sort. In that case...

Could more than one character A+ support Kaze at the same time, since A+ supports don't have to be mutual?

Edited by Riku

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Also, I don't think he'd have access to Sun God unless he married Hinoka or Azura... and since he has to marry Setsuna or Mozume for the Bowman tree, he probably can't declare polygamy and obtain Sun God.

Sun God comes from golden-kite warrior which is the alternate promotion for bowman.

As for which campaign to use him as a bowman in, it should be pointed out that IK also has competition from Takumi and Silas is one of the last units to join on that campaign. I think he'd do best as a holy bowman in Nohr simply because Nohr lacks bow users whereas Hoshido, and by extension invisible kingdom, has tons of them.

Edited by capmalachi

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Sun God comes from golden-kite warrior which is the alternate promotion for bowman.

As for which campaign to use him as a bowman in, it should be pointed out that IK also has competition from Takumi and Silas is one of the last units to join on that campaign. I think he'd do best as a holy bowman in Nohr simply because Nohr lacks bow users whereas Hoshido, and by extension invisible kingdom, has tons of them.

Ah, right. Sorry about that. I should remember that from all those class charts I made, but it slipped my mind. ^^;;

Ah yeah, that's why I was leaning towards using him in Nohr. But I don't really plan on replaying Hoshido/Nohr to grind supports or make Streetpass teams, which is probably when I'm going to use Holy Bowman Silas for fun as a side character. But if I end up using this build on a normal runthrough, I'd definitely opt to use him in Nohr than in Hoshido/IK.

Edited by Riku

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A game titled "if" is bound to be stuffed full of opportunity costs, and that is precisely what Silas is: a walking, talking, headache of an opportunity cost. His classes have nothing to offer with regards to endgame viability to any of the other characters, so he needs to both marry and buddy to get a good set, and even if he marries somebody who already has everything (like Orochi), he would simply be depriving that marriage from another unit on that route. He asks too much and offers too little to be at all a practical unit on the Nohr route.

I voted Basara for both Optimal and Hoshido polls simply because lolgrinding. While his Mag growth is too overwhelmingly low to be of much practical use without excessive commitment to the grind, to be honest I did not consider growths when making my choices for Azura, either--only maximum stats and skill access. So, it'd hardly be fair to single Silas out even for his blatantly awful growths in a 1:1 offensive stat, as that would imply that I would have to redo adjusted stat calculations for each and every character from here on in. That's way too much homework for a game that is not even available for me yet (though I will actually crunch personal growth rates before I play Conquest--and I have a gut feeling that Silas will likely end up comparatively lacking, anyway)! So, I just took the lazy way out and said "buddy to Kaze, marry to Orochi, maybe things will work out". That is, if you really insist on raising him on the Hoshido route, anyway.

With regards to making him a Holy Bowman (sure, why not, if you're on the Hoshido route you also have access to Setsuna, anyway), even if you give him access to 1-range bows he won't be that much different from a Berserker in practice . . . just with tons more accuracy and effectiveness against fliers. If you were to ask me, his best tanky skills don't come from his Cavalier tree, but his Mercenary one. With skills like Stubbornness and Sol and Guard Stance (particularly with a <50% HP Avatar), he could sustain himself against a prolonged onslaught better than most bow-wielding units I can think of.

Tanky Bowman Skill list:

Copycat Puppet (too many applications to list here, but one copy can still attack at range and be healed of the damage sustained by the "front line" copy)

Stubbornness

Sol

Sun God

*flex slot*

Don't a lot of other units use CCP as well? For instance, if Azura uses CCP, I'm assuming there will be a healer at the back to heal her puppet and give her some HP. Since Silas is relatively tanky, wouldn't it be better to have the healers focus on fragile units with puppets, rather than tanky ones?

Edited by Minischew

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Holy Bowman Silas, mm? Well, as you plan this for a more 'just for fun' playthrough, I'm assuming you plan doing this down the line. In doing so, you can purchase skills via My Castle and Logbook. Therefore, you can pretty much add what you like. However, I'll assume you are doing this on Nohr and during your first playthrough.


As a note, I'm excluding Proximity Shot, however, if it is available to you, GET IT.


Famui S (Bowman access) Benoit A+ (Knight access)


Sol

Aegis

Pavise

Bowfaire

Sun God/Proximity Shot


Have Famui Pair Up as a Berserker sitting at <50% for some heeeavy damage. General would be a good alternative if you'd rather him be even more tanky. If we can assume you have access to several skills, replace Bowfaire with CCP. You could drop Aegis for Flamboyant to have even better procs of Pavise and Sol, though I'm not sure that is necessarily ideal. I would drop Bowfaire for Counter more than likely.


And if we go ahead and assume DLC skills, Res Drain would help him out covering his glaring weakness. Great replacement to Bowfaire. But, honestly, I think this would work masterfully.

Edited by Xylaugheon Daily

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Holy Bowman Silas, mm? Well, as you plan this for a more 'just for fun' playthrough, I'm assuming you plan doing this down the line. In doing so, you can purchase skills via My Castle and Logbook. Therefore, you can pretty much add what you like. However, I'll assume you are doing this on Nohr and during your first playthrough.
As a note, I'm excluding Proximity Shot, however, if it is available to you, GET IT.
Famui S (Bowman access) Benoit A+ (Knight access)
Sol
Aegis
Pavise
Bowfaire
Sun God/Proximity Shot
Have Famui Pair Up as a Berserker sitting at <50% for some heeeavy damage. General would be a good alternative if you'd rather him be even more tanky. If we can assume you have access to several skills, replace Bowfaire with CCP. You could drop Aegis for Flamboyant to have even better procs of Pavise and Sol, though I'm not sure that is necessarily ideal. I would drop Bowfaire for Counter more than likely.
And if we go ahead and assume DLC skills, Res Drain would help him out covering his glaring weakness. Great replacement to Bowfaire. But, honestly, I think this would work masterfully.

I'm pretty sure Silas only has Jakob, Ryoma, and Kaze as his Buddy Seal options. I think you need to marry him to Effie for the General tree.

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I'm pretty sure Silas only has Jakob, Ryoma, and Kaze as his Buddy Seal options. I think you need to marry him to Effie for the General tree.

Ah, is that true? How very unfortunate. I guess I should have checked; there I go again, assuming things. That's too bad, as Pavise would be absolutely stunning on him.

Edited by Xylaugheon Daily

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I said Paladin for all of them, for multiple reasons.

-He seems to be of the Cain archetype of Cavaliers, with stats more suited for a Paladin

-Cavs are few and far between in Hoshido, and Jakob can Reclass into GK and has stats that suit the class more, making him a pseudo-Abel for Silas' Cain.

-The Paladin's balanced-but-high stat caps make him a great addition to any team, as he has high enough Str to put the hurt on most enemies, enough Spd to reliably double most enemies, and enough HP, Def, and Res to be a reliable tank if need be.

-Has an awesome color scheme as a Paladin.

Edited by JothTheConqueror

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The Summary has been posted, and the next polls will be posted tomorrow.


Thanks to everyone who participated in the polls and in the discussion! You're free to continue voting/discussing if you want, but this wraps up Week Two.


Edited by Riku

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So, first off his mag growth is utterly terrible, so any class that relies on magic is straight out. You could theoretically max out his magic with months of grinding for optimization, but it just isn't worth it since his strength mod is still higher.

In general, he does pretty good as any front line fighter type unit. He's got good str and skl growths, and decent speed and def. His res growth sucks so you'll ideally want to keep him away from mages though. Great knight is a great class for practicality in both routes, since it's in his base class tree, has good skills and stats/growths, and as a mounted unit Silas shouldn't have too much trouble engaging on his own terms. So I voted great knight in both practicality polls.

For optimization, I went with berserker instead. There are better berserkers in the game, but that's true for just about any class Silas would want. Poor guy suffers a bit from being a 'jack of all trades, master of none', he's fairly skilled but he doesn't really excel at anything compared to other characters. Berserker matches up fairly nicely with his strengths though, high str, good skl, and his low res and mag aren't too big of an issue since berserker either doesn't need it (mag) or sucks at it anyway (res). Berserker is just generally a good class as well, so there's that. He could do decently in a variety of classes, but honestly I probably wouldn't use him at all in an optimized team, if I did though for me it'd be berserker.

For preference I voted paladin. Silas is such an absolute sweetheart and I can definitely picture him as Kamui's knight in shining armour. Besides, it may not be the most optimal class around due to not really excelling at anything, but paladin is perfectly good in the main game.

Master of none, but often better than a master of one.

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