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Fixing Fates story issues (spoilers)


Yari
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Well, could you list a few examples of what Blazing Blade's narrative had that made you want to do said puppy punching?

Also, if you're more into the narrative side then I could post a link to the latest English script for Genealogy of the Holy War.

Well, this seems to be an infamous thread, but this guy summerized most of my views: http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=27311- I don't agree with every little detail, but he goes through most of which made me heavily dislike that game.

Oh, thank you, but wouldn't it be better to play it for myself or at least watch a walkthrough on YouTube?

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Geneology's English patch is mostly alright (with a few things that are weird, and you have to soft-patch it because there's a bug that fucks up the ending and makes it crash, or at least the one I played), but Thracia's English patch is awful and I played through it entirely in Japanese and just read the English script instead. Granted, it's suboptimal and would be better if we actually had an English Thracia patch that isn't full of forced memes and bad menu, but alas, this is what we got.

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Ladies and gentlemen this is not the thread to talk about other FE games stories. This is the fix Fates thread. So please stick to that theme of conversation.
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Alright then, let's discuss the governments of the two kingdoms in ways that keep with making the conflict muddier and overall fleshing out the setting.

For Hoshido, I'm supportive of portraying Mikoto as not being expected to perform executive power as opposed to ritual business.

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Hey everyone, new here! Been lurking on this thread a loooooooong time. I've been reading this thread and it's offered tons of new interesting ideas and approaches. You guys are all really brilliant thinkers. If I were a TV showrunner, I'd love to have you all as creative consultants for my show.

I have a slightly different concern. I'm not writing a fanfiction or an AU of any sort. Rather than rewriting Fates, I'd like to take the premise and use it as a jumping board for a wholly original work. I particularly enjoy the theme of the greater good vs your loved ones, that is very emotionally compelling and you can definitely grey that later. All I know at this moment is that I'm keeping two warring kingdoms, two families, one diverging history, a child caught in between. Some characters whose ideas behind them I like, but not so much the execution of those ideas (for example, both Ryouma and Xander. And Kamui)

But I'd like to know:

  • Before all of the news about the game came out, what were the fan theories about Fates that you really loved?
  • What are some unexplored story directions that you still wish they could have taken?
  • Do you like having a magical influence like Hydra over the events of the story, or would you have preferred a completely realistic story? (Middle-of-the-road opinions are also welcome).
  • In a non-interactive story like fiction, do you still prefer a "split story" or rather it all be integrated into "one story?" If you like split stories, would you want "two sides of one story?" or alternative tellings of the same story?

Lastly: any suggestions for settings, by the way? I loved the East/West contrast but I feel I'd be emulating Fates too closely by replicating it again.

Edited by QueryingQuery
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  • Before all of the news about the game came out, what were the fan theories about Fates that you really loved?
  • What are some unexplored story directions that you still wish they could have taken?
  • Do you like having a magical influence like Hydra over the events of the story, or would you have preferred a completely realistic story? (Middle-of-the-road opinions are also welcome).
  • In a non-interactive story like fiction, do you still prefer a "split story" or rather it all be integrated into "one story?" If you like split stories, would you want "two sides of one story?" or alternative tellings of the same story?

Lastly: any suggestions for settings, by the way? I loved the East/West contrast but I feel I'd be emulating Fates too closely by replicating it again.

The characters having personalities was a pretty nice theory

Would it make me conceited if I said I liked my own idea of Azura being evil in at least one route? It's not like it takes a genius to come up with it, I just didn't see a lot of people talking about - or hoping for - it. As it stands now, she's only there to spew exposition; I'd like it if she had a stake in everything that went down. That and...you know, emotions.

Unexplored story directions: Xander, Garon and Kamui's thoughts and feelings throughout the three routes. Differences between the two kingdoms and at least a bit about their traditions, cuisine, history, religion, language - just ANYTHING that makes the countries seem like actual places rather than pieces of cardboard. Also, politics; Ryouma saying "oh wow, things are bad in Nohr, I should totes donate food" feels like it's written by a 10-year-old trying to emulate how he thought politics worked.

Fuck Hydra. No, seriously, fuck him. He removes tension, character responsibility and the entire human element from the story; he's a convenient excuse that allows Kamui to bang their siblings and have a golden ending. I know a lot of people disagree with me on this one, but holy shit he's the WORST kind of villain in a character-driven game. If you're basing your story on this, ignore this abomination.

In non-interactive stories, I'd prefer it told as one story I believe, although I haven't given it much thought.

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Alright then, let's discuss the governments of the two kingdoms in ways that keep with making the conflict muddier and overall fleshing out the setting.

For Hoshido, I'm supportive of portraying Mikoto as not being expected to perform executive power as opposed to ritual business.

I haven't given a lot of thought to the Hoshido route but if and when I do, I think it would be good to have Mikoto being in charge of ritual business, and after the death of her husband, power hungry factions plotting to overthrow her.

But I'd like to know:

  • Before all of the news about the game came out, what were the fan theories about Fates that you really loved?
  • What are some unexplored story directions that you still wish they could have taken?
  • Do you like having a magical influence like Hydra over the events of the story, or would you have preferred a completely realistic story? (Middle-of-the-road opinions are also welcome).
  • In a non-interactive story like fiction, do you still prefer a "split story" or rather it all be integrated into "one story?" If you like split stories, would you want "two sides of one story?" or alternative tellings of the same story?

Lastly: any suggestions for settings, by the way? I loved the East/West contrast but I feel I'd be emulating Fates too closely by replicating it again.

1. I don't think there were any theories that intrigued me but I was super excited for the premise. The advertising made the Nohr route sound like it would be a intricate political drama but then we got... well... They weren't lying when they said it'd be only slight more complicated than Hoshido, and they forgot to mention it would be a whole lot dumber.

2. As Thane said, I wish they would have developed the political entities in the setting. For having two (at least visually) completely distinct cultures, we learn very little about either. And then you have all the duchies which are hardly given any attention. They visit one, kill some people and move on to the next. Fates was just awful at world building.

3. No, the magical elements were not needed at all and detracted from focus of the plot. The amount of world building and character focus could have been HUGE, but instead we got the Invisible Plot Device Kingdom mucking everything up. Fates could have been one of the best Fire Emblem stories for discussing loyalty vs blood, selfishness vs altruism, love vs duty, and all sorts of family relationships. Instead we got angry dragons. And convenient pseudo-incest.

4. I like alternative versions of the same story. Telling the story from different points of view can give unique insight to radically different cultures and character motivations. If you chose Nohr, for example, Kamui might get along great with his siblings but forever have doubt in his mind about the sort of life he'd have if he was never kidnapped. If you chose Nohr, Kamui would have an awkward relationship with his siblings, having grown up in a completely different culture and having the guilt of turning on the people he grew up with.

If you are going as far as writing your own setting, I'd try a different theme than east vs west. While certainly very compelling, there are plenty of contrasting cultures in the world to take inspiration from.

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Okay, I have some ideas on how the Kingdoms can play off each other. Any feedback is appreciated.

Nohr

-I think that the best way to change Nohr is to keep most of the moral ambiguity in the story, but come up with a way to make them sympathetic despite this. The easiest way to do this would be to have them perform more or less the same actions they do in story, but with more of an "I did what I had to do' mentality as opposed to a sadistic cartoonish-supervillainy one. I particularly like the idea of Iago and Ganz being mostly decent people who are forced to do shady and morally questionable things out of either desperation (Ganz is mentioned to be a criminal, so he could've had a terrible childhood along the lines of Belka/Zero) or necessity (Iago needs his job as tactician and can't lose if for whatever reason, maybe because he has a large family he needs to provide for).

-It's mentioned that Nohr needs food and that Hoshido would've given it to them if they'd simply asked, which makes the country look unnecessarily stubborn/stupid. To fix this, I propose that Nohr require a lot more than just food, but also fresh water, timber, metals, inhabitable land and other such things in such large quantities that trading with other countries won't be able to provide them, so conquering them is the only option left.

-I noticed while looking at the world map that Nohr has lots of area that appears to be desert. Because of this, I think that Nohr would have the Australia problem, were only a small amount of the country's land is fit for human occupation and they can only live on a small amount of the land, leading to massive overpopulation.

-Similarly, I think that Nohr would have a wealth disparity set up similar to that in the Hunger Games, were people living in the capitol live a life of luxury and don't actually know how bad things are in the rest of the country while the peasants are impoverished and have to deal with hunger, drought, faceless attacks and bandits, all of which leaves them feeling very resentful and willing to rebel against the capital should a suitably powerful leader show up. Personally, I also came up with the idea of a 'Bandit Kingdom' somewhere up North, where the number of people forced to resort to banditry to make a decent living has gotten so high that they took over a fortress in the North near some fertile (by comparison) soil and have fortified it so that it would require a larger force to uproot them then the military generals are willing to commit. This could become the staging point for a rebellion against the capitol at a latter date or simply provide a ruthless way of 'plucking the fangs of rebellion' without seeming needlessly evil about it.

Hoshido

-In terms of cultural differences, I like the idea of Hoshido placing a greater cultural emphasis on religious/spiritual ideas than Nohr. This is because they'd actually have a reason to worship their dragon (for giving them great land, whereas I imagine Nohrian peasants would be more 'Dark Dragon? Pfft, what's it ever done for us?"), Asama's supports make reference to a group of 'sacred mountains' (that he says are responsible for changing him from a bratty half-pint into who he is today and likely gave him his star-shaped pupils) and Orochi's fortune telling seems somewhat accurate as opposed to just concentrated B*llsh*t (Her death quote for example). This can also set up a contrast with Nohr that goes beyond simple East/West, with Hoshido being more idealistic and spiritual/mystical to contrast Nohrian cynicism and worldliness.

-Because of the Light Dragon's blessings, plant life in Hoshidan soil grows a lot faster and requires less water than they would anywhere else, enabling them to perform multiple crop harvests per growing season without expending too much water and makes food their primary trading export and still have an abundance left over to justify them being able to send it to Nohr for charity.

-Similar to Nohr, I'd personally prefer to muddy the conflict while still having Hoshido be the 'lighter shade of grey', if only because they don't have to resort to the extremes that Nohr does (or because these flaws are present in an unpleasant minority as opposed to the rule, rather than the exception). One way this can be done is to give them the 'elf' attitude; the one were they have a thinly-veiled sense of superiority, considering their nation/culture to be the best there is and taking it upon themselves to 'educate' and 'guide' the 'lesser races/culture/people'. This can help to play up the racism seen in Azura/Tsubaki's supports without resorting to 'die Nohrian die' extremes. Alternatively, they could simply be ignorant of how the 'real world' works after having living in prosperity for so long, not understanding why Nohr would attack them even though they have a perfectly valid reason to do so.

-Another way to make Hoshido more flawed as a culture could be religious intolerance, because what religion is complete without an arrogant group of jerkasses who make the others look bad by comparison. While the religious leaders could be receptive to change, but preffering things to stay the way they are, some of the civilians could ramp it up to fundamentalist levels of intolerance quite easily. I was planning on having a character in my story named Jinpachi (Tekken fans know where that guy is going) who is ostracised from society for his unconventionally theories on the nature of good and evil spirits.

-Lastly in terms of flaws, the ninjas gave me an idea in Saizou/Suzukaze's supports were they tried to assassinate Fuuma's ruler because he murdered their father. Bascially, Hoshido isn't as peaceful as it seems, they simply deal with and hide it better. In this case, people could speak out with unpopular ideas or try to introduce a social reform that isn't very popular, but they don't get very far before getting assassinated by ninjas, sort of like a secret police. In fact, ninjas could be one of the things that makes life in Nohr a living hell by interferring with trade or even salting fields because the only thing stopping Nohr from winning the war is a lack of resources. This could be why the ninjas are so secretive about their work (Kagerou on her birthday says that even their dates of birth are classified); because they do lots of shady and dishonest things that would make for quite the international scandal should word ever get out.

In General

-They also play off each other with how they try to recruit Corrin (not because of 'mah sibling', although that is an added bonus, but because he wields the Yatogami and can turn into a dragon, which would be really useful to have on their side). Nohr would draw attention to the problems faced by the common folk, but shift the blame to Hoshido by going 'Oh the humanity! What suffering our people are going through! If only the people of Hoshido were more generous they wouldn't have to experience such pain! I guess they're not as great as you think they are *wink wink nudge nudge*' whereas Hoshido would try to cover up their flaws and portray themselves as the perfect, blameless victims they are in the story proper.

-Aside from these, I'm going to be taking a lot of things from general Western/Eastern cultures. The Hoshidans for example, worship the Light Dragon as the 'main god' (their equivalent of Zeus or Odin) and the rest of the pantheon comes from the Chinese Zodiac (like their spells) and other such things.

Whelp, I'm done for now. As I said, any feedback is appreciated

Edited by Phillius
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Does anyone know where in the game it mentions the "dragons became spirits to avoid madness"? Is it, IK or the Hydra dlc?

-Similarly, I think that Nohr would have a wealth disparity set up similar to that in the Hunger Games, were people living in the capitol live a life of luxury and don't actually know how bad things are in the rest of the country while the peasants are impoverished and have to deal with hunger, drought, faceless attacks and bandits, all of which leaves them feeling very resentful and willing to rebel against the capital should a suitably powerful leader show up. Personally, I also came up with the idea of a 'Bandit Kingdom' somewhere up North, where the number of people forced to resort to banditry to make a decent living has gotten so high that they took over a fortress in the North near some fertile (by comparison) soil and have fortified it so that it would require a larger force to uproot them then the military generals are willing to commit. This could become the staging point for a rebellion against the capitol at a latter date or simply provide a ruthless way of 'plucking the fangs of rebellion' without seeming needlessly evil about it.

A big problem with modling the capital in that way is that you'd need to copy the HG model of having a resident slave population within the city. But even then, if you do so you'd run into the ancient ongoing problem of immagrants and vagrants:

The urban areas of the empire - whether it was Rome, Pompeii, Antioch, or Carthage - were magnets to many people who left smaller towns and farms seeking a better way of life. However, the unfulfilled promise of jobs forced countless people to live in the poorer parts of the city. The jobs they sought were often not there, resulting in an epidemic of homeless inhabitants. The work that was available to these new émigrés, however, was difficult to obtain. Slaves performed almost all of the menial jobs as well as many of the professions such as teachers, doctors, surgeons, and architects.

So the statemnet of "living in capitol = life of luxury" would be true for only a select few, not all. In terms of a medievel type setting, all titled nobility living only within one city makes no sense if they're landed- if they have land it's their duty to oversee and defend the land and you need to be actively living upon it to do so. Nobility gathering in one place tended to only be during big events or for only one season- year round gatherings were merely spectacles pulled by kings like France's Sun King where he wanted to entrap all those beneath him so they couldn't betray him, and the model of Versailles ultimately got his descendants guillotined and the nation thrown into anarchy. Probably a pet peeve of my speaking, but nobility who have no awareness about the conditions of the citicizenry are like trust fund kids not trained to properly manage what they've inherited. Also if the peasanrty are as downtrodden and poor as you're describing they're going to have a very hard time scrounging up the proper arms and armor needed to be able to hold their own let alone fight the blinged out fat-cat guardsmen who have the best equipement (and training! This is a huge deal) that the market can offer.

The question I have for your bandit kingdom is, who are the robbing? If they're so isolated, would it be the rock farmers who don't make enough even for themselves? Why would merchant caravans take such a meandering path- and if them, wouldn't they soon find alternate paths or spend big mulah on hired guard? So they're big enough to be called a kingdom- why were then ignored up until this point? Were they bumbling thus not considered a worthwhile threat- but then why would others join? If they aren't nomadic how have they avoided the iron fist of Nohr swatting them? I big problem of making it not bandits but a bandit kingdom is that there's not legitimate entity to distract Nohr, like Queen Elizabeth when the complains about Sir Francis Drake rolled in from Spain, and also it being a "kingdom" implies soemthing that needs to be maintained so unlike the Chinese pirate queen Ching Shih there'd be no happy ending of retirement.

I'm being extra nitpicky since you're laying the foundation for building an original world- so I don't want you to have a weak pillar that topples it. (I really hate Hunger Game's worldbuilding, it's 100% unrealistic even if it's interesting themeatically)

Also if you are wanting to have thins not be fanfiction but Orginal Work you're going to have to ditch some of Corrin's identifying marks. Cause kidnapped royal child + chosen one with chosen sword + turns into a dragon, would be pulling a 50 Shades of Grey in that you're pretty much swapping out names but characters are straight up fanfiction.

The idea of Hoshido having a pantheon is nice though, considering how the fans are named "Rat, the first god" ect.

Edited by Damosel
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@Phillius: You might include something about the Four Symbols as well, because when using Dragon's Vein they invoke one of four dragons based on said symbols.

It's the one group of deities both groups might pray too because Nohr can invoke their power, unlike the Dark Dragon. In fact their dislike for the Dark Dragon could be why they used the corpse of a different dark dragon as a fortress.

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So the statemnet of "living in capitol = life of luxury" would be true for only a select few, not all. In terms of a medievel type setting, all titled nobility living only within one city makes no sense if they're landed- if they have land it's their duty to oversee and defend the land and you need to be actively living upon it to do so. Nobility gathering in one place tended to only be during big events or for only one season- year round gatherings were merely spectacles pulled by kings like France's Sun King where he wanted to entrap all those beneath him so they couldn't betray him, and the model of Versailles ultimately got his descendants guillotined and the nation thrown into anarchy. Probably a pet peeve of my speaking, but nobility who have no awareness about the conditions of the citicizenry are like trust fund kids not trained to properly manage what they've inherited. Also if the peasanrty are as downtrodden and poor as you're describing they're going to have a very hard time scrounging up the proper arms and armor needed to be able to hold their own let alone fight the blinged out fat-cat guardsmen who have the best equipement (and training! This is a huge deal) that the market can offer.

I'm sorry, I don't really do a good job of explaining things first time around. It's not just the nobles living in the city and the Hunger Games comparison probalby wasn't used well on my part. The city is composed of the middle class to the upper class while the lower class work to support them. The city features genunine merchants and buisness owners as well as scholars and other such things, with the nobility being few in number and living in the castle. Also, the nobility is aware of how bad things are outside the city but the middle class isn't, because they'd panic upon realising that things aren't going as well as propaganda says they are and possibly even riot. Also, all the good soldiers are kept in or around the city with areas away from the city featuring poorly-equipped conscripts to enforce the will of regional lords, which is considered just enough to keep peasants in line.

The question I have for your bandit kingdom is, who are the robbing? If they're so isolated, would it be the rock farmers who don't make enough even for themselves? Why would merchant caravans take such a meandering path- and if them, wouldn't they soon find alternate paths or spend big mulah on hired guard? So they're big enough to be called a kingdom- why were then ignored up until this point? Were they bumbling thus not considered a worthwhile threat- but then why would others join? If they aren't nomadic how have they avoided the iron fist of Nohr swatting them? I big problem of making it not bandits but a bandit kingdom is that there's not legitimate entity to distract Nohr, like Queen Elizabeth when the complains about Sir Francis Drake rolled in from Spain, and also it being a "kingdom" implies soemthing that needs to be maintained so unlike the Chinese pirate queen Ching Shih there'd be no happy ending of retirement.

Again, this was poorly explained on my part, I apologise. 'Kingdom' was a poor choice of words on my part, a better (but probably still poor) comparison would be a scaled down Nar Shaddaa, by which I mean it's a base for all sorts of criminal activities. Smuggling (both illegal supplies and people), banditry, everything is fair game, which makes it a very appealing place for criminal groups. Secondly, when looking at the map, their are two paths that go around that mountain in the middle of Nohr; one that is shorter, but seems to go through the desert, and one that is longer, but goes through the comparitively green territory. I'd like to believe that the shorter route is more dangerous because of heat, cold, rockslides and desert predators, while on the longer route you 'only' have to deal with bandits. Lastly, the bandits managed to take over a fortress, which in real life are both a long-term commitment a logistical nightmare to take over, so the official Nohrian attitude towards them is a mixture of 'can't be arsed' and 'as long as they don't irritate us TOO much, we'll leave them be'.

Also if you are wanting to have thins not be fanfiction but Orginal Work you're going to have to ditch some of Corrin's identifying marks. Cause kidnapped royal child + chosen one with chosen sword + turns into a dragon, would be pulling a 50 Shades of Grey in that you're pretty much swapping out names but characters are straight up fanfiction.

I can see why you'd think that, but I'm just trying to do some world-building because to me, the world in Fates feels very empty, even when compared to Awakening. Kingdoms are given one or two traits and then mentioned only tokenly after being brought up. Muse in particular is mentioned as being a neutral country were Nohrians and Hoshidans can go, but how is this enforced? How do they convince them not to fight each other? Are the massively prepared for an invasion in the same style as Switzerland, so no one wants to invade them? And we never actually see the effects of Nohr being poor in the story, as opposed to focusing entirely on Corrin's actions. Why does Chevalier rebel? I may be remembering incorrectly, but I don't think they're ever given a reason for abandoning Nohr, they just kinda...do. What I'm trying to do is stay as close to the canon as possible while making the places feel like part of a world, as opposed to just cardboard backgrounds for character drama.

@Phillius: You might include something about the Four Symbols as well, because when using Dragon's Vein they invoke one of four dragons based on said symbols.

It's the one group of deities both groups might pray too because Nohr can invoke their power, unlike the Dark Dragon. In fact their dislike for the Dark Dragon could be why they used the corpse of a different dark dragon as a fortress.

I always thought the symbol used just reflected the type of dragon for what power they're using. Water dragon for freezing things, Wind dragon for blowing away debris ETC. They're could be something there, but we'll see.

Also I really like that idea. I can imagine people using the dark dragon's corpse as a symbol of human superiority over dragons or something. Thanks!

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They are based on the Four Chinese symbols. Each dragon symbol takes some cues form the Chinese symbol they are based. The Fire Dragon resembles a bird (Suzaku), Water Dragon has a snake for a tail (Genbu), Earth/Ground Dragon looks like he has fur (Byakko), and the last is Seiryu.

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They are based on the Four Chinese symbols. Each dragon symbol takes some cues form the Chinese symbol they are based. The Fire Dragon resembles a bird (Suzaku), Water Dragon has a snake for a tail (Genbu), Earth/Ground Dragon looks like he has fur (Byakko), and the last is Seiryu.

Huh. I did not know that. The more you know I guess...

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I haven't given a lot of thought to the Hoshido route but if and when I do, I think it would be good to have Mikoto being in charge of ritual business, and after the death of her husband, power hungry factions plotting to overthrow her.

In the Hoshido I'm thinking of, that would be sacrilege. Remember the Japanese emperors for a large of chunk of Japanese history never had command over troops or land to the extent assorted shoguns had. And yet the emperors were still kept around.

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They are based on the Four Chinese symbols. Each dragon symbol takes some cues form the Chinese symbol they are based. The Fire Dragon resembles a bird (Suzaku), Water Dragon has a snake for a tail (Genbu), Earth/Ground Dragon looks like he has fur (Byakko), and the last is Seiryu.

Also, here's more about them:

Suzaku's title is the Vermillion Bird. It represents the South, Summer and the element of fire.

Genbu's title is the Black Turtle. It represents the North, Winter and the element of water.

Byakko's title is the White Tiger. It represents the West, Autumn and the element of metal.

Seiryu's title is the Azure Dragon. It represents the East, Spring and the element of wood.

Maybe Kamui should have a deeper connection to Genbu, since Kamui is heavily associated with the element of water.

And the Elemental Tribes could worship them individually, such as Suzaku being the fire tribe's god.

Edited by Water Mage
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Also, here's more about them:

Suzaku's title is the Vermillion Bird. It represents the South, Summer and the element of fire.

Genbu's title is the Black Turtle. It represents the North, Winter and the element of water.

Byakko's title is the White Tiger. It represents the West, Autumn and the element of metal.

Seiryu's title is the Azure Dragon. It represents the East, Spring and the element of wood.

Maybe Kamui should have a deeper connection to Genbu, since Kamui is heavily associated with the element of water.

And the Elemental Tribes could worship them individually, such as Suzaku being the fire tribe's god.

Isn't the Rainbow Sage also a dragon? Maybe each tribe as a dragon (or is it dragon spirit?) masquerading as an old man who advises the tribe chief or something?

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In the Hoshido I'm thinking of, that would be sacrilege. Remember the Japanese emperors for a large of chunk of Japanese history never had command over troops or land to the extent assorted shoguns had. And yet the emperors were still kept around.

Hoshido as it is has a western style leadership. A king and queen, and children to inherit the throne (although I find it odd that Ryoma didn't supplant Mikoto as the head sovereign after Sumeragi's death). Sumeragi doesn't seem to fit the mold of an emperor so it would be weird to put Mikoto in an empress role. But it's your story, so you can define the political structure how you like.

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Maybe he didn't feel like he was ready? Maybe he wasn't old enough? I'm assuming Corrin was abducted around 10-11 years before the story, which probably places Ryoma around 14-18 when Sumeragi kicked the bucket.

Edited by Phillius
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Also, in the Chinese Symbols, there was a fifth one that was left out of the Japanese version (uánglóng, the Yellow Dragon of the Center, embodying the element of Earth). I guess this could be the Light Dragon in their pantheon?

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It would likely be Hydra, as the Invisible Dragon was the source of the Dragon's vein. Though of course people saw him as a Light/Dark Dragon so he could take the place as the fifth one.

Also Kamui's dragon form I realize looks kinda like a Qilin due to its deer like qualities.

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Hoshido as it is has a western style leadership. A king and queen, and children to inherit the throne (although I find it odd that Ryoma didn't supplant Mikoto as the head sovereign after Sumeragi's death). Sumeragi doesn't seem to fit the mold of an emperor so it would be weird to put Mikoto in an empress role. But it's your story, so you can define the political structure how you like.

They let the queen rule unmarried until death. There is seemingly no gender bias regarding leadership in Hoshido or Nohr, as in the ending of Birthright Camilla mentions she's the monarch now that Xander and Garon have died (although she decides to give up the throne to Leo anyways).

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They let the queen rule unmarried until death. There is seemingly no gender bias regarding leadership in Hoshido or Nohr, as in the ending of Birthright Camilla mentions she's the monarch now that Xander and Garon have died (although she decides to give up the throne to Leo anyways).

Not sure if this was confirmed, but I read in a summary somewhere that at the Hinoka says that she is Queen now, because both Ryoma and Takumi are dead. Maybe it's a translation error, but if not that would mean Hoshido runs under male preferance law. Mikoto probably became Queen because Ryouma was underage at the time, and once he came of age he decided not to press the issue as long as Mikoto was alive. Again this is pure speculation based on a fan-translation, so take with a grain of salt.

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Okay, I've finished drafting the Hoshidan world creation theory for their religion. Let me know what you think.

In the beginning, the material world was an uninhabitable, formless wasteland. Devoid of life, shrouded in darkness and incomprarable to the world we know today. However, millions of years ago, the spirit known as Kōryū, the most powerful and respected spirit, took an interest in the material world. It crossed the boundary that divided the material and spirit world and became the Dragon of Light. With his incredivle power, he banished the darkness and brought light and shape to the world. Seeking to further improve his design, he created four beings in his likeness; Seiryū, Suzaku, Byakko and Genbu, who created the seasons and the materials that would make up the world.

Seiryū the Azure Dragon created Spring and Wood

Suzaku the Vermillion Bird created Summer and Fire

Byakko the White Tiger created Autumn and all the worlds Metals

And Genbu the Black Tortoise created Winter and Water

Once this task was completed, Kōryū brought eleven of his closest advisors in the spirit world across the boundry, imbued them with his powers of creation and charged them with bringing life to the world. The twelve great spirits created the animals of the world in the likeness of their physical forms and personality, which reflected their natures as spirits:

The Rat God, who was intelligent and inqusitive, but manipulative and ambitious, created the worlds Rodents with the Rabbit God

The Ox God, who was hardworking and dependable, but stubborn and naive, created the worlds Bovine with the Goat God

The Tiger God, who was passionate and daring, but impulsive and rebellious, created the worlds Felidae

The Rabbit God, who was gracious and strong-willed, but cunning and ruthless, helped create the worlds Rodents with the Rat God

The Snake God, who was soft-spoken and wise, but vain and skeptical, created the worlds Reptiles

The Horse God, who was cheerful and quick-witted, but unreliable and fickle, created the worlds Equine

The Goat God, who was righteous and compassionate, but pessmistic and emotional, created the worlds Bovine with the Ox God

The Monkey God, who was innovative and self-assured, but arrogant and overconfident, created the worlds Primates

The Rooster God, who was dauntless and meticulous, but aggressive and uptight, created the worlds Avians

The Dog God, who was honest and loyal, but naive and untrusting, created the worlds Canidae

The Boar God, who was straightforward and gallant, but rough and hedonistic, created the worlds Suidae

And Kōryū created the worlds dragons, tasking them with the protection of the world while he himself swore to never interfere with his creation.

With life and form brought to the material world, spirits flocked on mass to be a part of it. Kōryū created bodies of clay and blood for these spirtis, and the union of soul and body created the human race. However, the trauma of crossing the boundry between worlds was difficult for the lesser spirits to bear, and many lost their memories when merging with these caly constructs. To counteract this, these bodies were temporary and mortal, allowing the souls within to return to the spirit world upon its death and regain their memories. Time passed and the early humans quickly mastered the landscapes that had been crafted, but this mastery eventually led to hubris, and man became convinced of their superiority. These feelings were manipulated by the Dark Dragons, who were jealous of the favoritism that Kōryū heaped upon the humans and mingled their blood with that of a powerful human family, granting them the ability to manipulate the foundations and elements of the world.

The Dark Dragons, using the empowered humans as their puppets, brought war to the material realm. They quickly took over a large area of land, which was twisted and corrupted to reflect their evil nature. While the dragons waged war with each other, the peaceful humans were left at the mercy of their manipulated counterparts. With no other option, Kōryū broke his oath to remain passive mingled his blood with an equally powerful family in order to combat the Dark Dragon's puppets.

After thousands of years of war, the Dark Dragons were slain to the last and their human puppets driven back to their originally conquered land. With the rest of the world in ruins, Kōryū returned to the spirit world as penance for his failure to prevent the destruction and was followed by the Seasonal and Animal Gods after they had restored the world to it's original state, leaving the family empowered by Kōryū's blood and their subjects to defend the world and redeem their twisted counterparts.

That's it, any feedback is appreciated.

Edited by Phillius
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