Jump to content

Fixing Fates story issues (spoilers)


Yari
 Share

Recommended Posts

Do take note that It's not that I hate Takumi, it's just that I don't understand all the love he gets just because he's a drama queen.

To me, he's just another character that is slighty more badly written and who talk more than others.

EDIT: Chapter 10 ? Eh, it was hard, I would hardly call it a nightmare, I thought it was hilarious actually.

Edited by B.Leu
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 1.5k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

"Wow, Camilla's really carrying me this level! All I have to do is -"

*Dragon's Vein*

"Okay, that's annoying, but as long as I have Camilla, I'll be fi-"

*Based Takumi OHKO's*

"...fuck."

Edited by Phillius
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We're in a war, not in a hentai. Of course people will die, it would be not fun. ;-(

Plus I like the idea of one of the sibling actually doing crap, like y'know tension inside you side.

Now, for the third path, it's either all the older sibling die, or just two. Hmmm...

Don't worry, there will be plenty of depression, brooding and lamentation even without your own siblings kicking the bucket. I'm actually concerned it will be too dark.

Oh yeah, I've seen the playthroughts. *Shudder*

Edit: As a side note, we've talked a lot about rewriting Fates, but has anyone actually started? I'd be interested in reading them if anyone has.

I'm busy writing chapter summaries and dialogue for each chapter. Should I post my work as I finish it or wait until it's all done? I'm just writing dialogue as opposed to a novel style fanfiction (for now) so... I hope... people aren't ... too disappointed...

doushiyou

"I've totally got this! Nohr isn't so tough!"

*Dragon Vein*

"Oh shit oh shit oh shit oh shit!"

My reaction was more of a somber "some Hoshidans just want to see the world burn."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm busy writing chapter summaries and dialogue for each chapter. Should I post my work as I finish it or wait until it's all done? I'm just writing dialogue as opposed to a novel style fanfiction (for now) so... I hope... people aren't ... too disappointed...

Do whatever you think would be easiest. And don't worry, I'm sure it will be good.

I still want Ornstein skinship though...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hoshido must be damn shining if the worst on-screen things you can list about it are Hoshidan characters saying bigoted slogans and Ryoma not letting Kamui pass for him to get medicine to help an enemy royal.

Hoshido's bigotry problem (if that's the case) nothing more than telling over showing.

Edited by Alazen
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh yeah, I've seen the playthroughts. *Shudder*

Edit: As a side note, we've talked a lot about rewriting Fates, but has anyone actually started? I'd be interested in reading them if anyone has.

Finally organizing everything (themes, structure, character rewriting, symbolism, etc.) to the point where writing can soon commence. However, I write at a snail's pace, hampered down further by work and schooling, so don't expect too much immediately.

However, I too look forward to where everyone is taking this narrative. There are multiple ways to fix this story, and it's becoming clearer and clearer that some of us deviate further than others.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could you post what you've written down so far Party Moth? Since you're apparently past the point of finishing your rewrite's symbolism, character fixes, etc.

Also, the excuse that Hoshido is more prosperous than Nohr so the former isn't all conquest and war crime happy or otherwise shown to be noticeably more shady is shoddy when you account for both Earth (see Imperial Japan only being outdone when it came to civilian casualties by Nazi Germany) and past FEs such as Gaiden.

Edited by Alazen
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[spoiler=Wait for DLC]

tumblr_m1jpwcQce51r63w1v.jpg

It's...beautiful.

I think I might cry.

Hoshido must be damn shining if the worst on-screen things you can list about it are Hoshidan characters saying bigoted slogans and Ryoma not letting Kamui pass for him to get medicine to help an enemy royal.

Hoshido's bigotry problem (if that's the case) nothing more than telling over showing.

Telling over showing is the biggest problem with Fates IMO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could you post what you'very written down so far Party Moth? Since you're apparently past the point of finishing you're rewrite's symbolism, character fixes, etc.

Sure, though I'll try to paraphrase as much as I can. Everything I've put together so far is spread across over 26 pages worth of documents, Google docs, and a notebook. It might also take some time to condense into something readable, so bear with me as I break this down across a post or three throughout the weekend.

1. Background Info

[spoiler=Necessary Info About Awakening]

Necessary info about Awakening

My current project that has been in the works is a reinterpretation of Fire Emblem Awakening titled A Monarch’s Awakening. The intended goal of the project is to be a more articulated tale that compiles a larger and more cohesive “best of” from the series while at the same time questioning what makes Fire Emblem Fire Emblem. Focus is given to reworking character arcs and giving more world building to each of the nations and their geography/culture, as these nuances were completely lacking in the original. The project is split into three parts that follow the general outline of the game’s story while diverging from it gradually with each installment. Each part is titled with the stages of butterfly development, as the concept is based around the theme of transformation (from caterpillar to monarch butterfly) while reflecting the change the series is currently undergoing. They are as follows:

Beginning Instars: Gangrel Arc that sticks the closest to the original game, though alterations become noticeable as early as the prologue (“Southtown” becomes a port town named after Shadow Dragon’s Port Warren). As this is the beginning of the tale, the title is that of early instar phases of a caterpillar. Emphasis is placed on the inability of Chrom and Gangrel to move on from their past, and how they clash as a result. Notable major changes include Robin's character rewritten to be stubborn and apathetic toward others, giving a similar impression as that of someone with antisocial personality disorder. This is intended to establish Robin as stunted mentally from the trauma of losing her memories and to make the true relationships and bonds she eventually makes all the more worthwhile.

Chrysalis of Clay: Valm Arc that begins to diverge more prominently than the previous arc. Characters’ mistakes and flaws begin to catch up to them, and their faith in one another is tested as the true plot is lying dormant, as if a chrysalis upon a tree. Emphasis is placed on the values dissonance between Chrom and Walhart as rulers, and the concept of divine right (he who is chosen by the gods is destined to be king) is mentioned and discussed. Notable major changes include modifications to Walhart's backstory and character, as well as Tiki's extended role in the narrative as a whole. Valm was a heavily underdeveloped arc in the game and much has gone into salvaging and connecting it to the main story line.

The Blackest Wings: The final arc, which I consider “careens toward the sun in a glorious blaze of wtf.” Here, Fire Emblem’s concept of divine right is tackled full on and the past comes back to haunt the characters who have long forgotten the history of the weapons they wield and the monsters they face. Chrom's character arc comes full circle, from having to claim his divine title in the first arc, defending it from critics and opposition in the second arc, to finally questioning its true purpose and meaning in the third. So too does Robin face her own destiny and the choices she has made thus far. The title has multiple meanings, from the emergence of the butterfly to the shadow of Grima’s wings covering the land. This is the part which I believe will test the readers the most, as it involves concepts present in previous Fire Emblem games but were only cheaply imitated in Awakening. These concepts rely on a somewhat intimate knowledge of the lore of the first five Fire Emblem titles, as this piece continues to develop ideas posed in them.

The importance of all this information lies in the general tone, message, and alterations presented by the story, which involves attempting to deconstruct some of the concepts the series has carried with it until Awakening. While the new game is criticized, so too are some of the older concepts of prior games in an attempt to bridge the gap between them. The ultimate message, something I conceived while trying to reconcile with Awakening's concepts with that of the older games, is that there is hope for the series despite its flaws. In this sense, Awakening is not necessarily slammed or shamed but inspected and criticized for what it did right and wrong.

The current draft of this is not yet public, as I work slowly and prefer to release content when there is a substantial amount (a finished story arc, for example).

It's quite early in the morning now and my laptop's cord is failing me. Considering my luck with computers, I'm not surprised at this point. I will return tomorrow to compile the general concepts, symbolism, and character alterations that bleed across all three paths of Of Fates and Threads.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think it did a good job of telling either...

Fates is its own biggest problem.

But more on topic: as for the whole Ryoma blackmail situation, here's my basic understanding: Nohr gets shit on for using what tactics it can to win the war (Faceless to infiltrate mind control barrier, for instance) and is generally demonized. But when a Hoshidan does something that comes off as more personal and underhanded, the game is silent on the matter and doesn't mention it again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't even know exactly what happened with the Ryoma deal. Did he know Elise was sick? Did he not know? Was it really blackmail or just timing? In wich chapter? Was it the chapter Elise got sick or after? Someone explain this all to me before I begin to rage about how all of the fangirl would defend Marx if it was him. The TV troopes Fates page was once filled with bullshit and sure bullshit is still there but I won't let my trauma get to me so someone please explain what exactly happened so we can decide if was underhanded and personal or not.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't even know exactly what happened with the Ryoma deal. Did he know Elise was sick? Did he not know? Was it really blackmail or just timing? In wich chapter? Was it the chapter Elise got sick or after? Someone explain this all to me before I begin to rage about how all of the fangirl would defend Marx if it was him. The TV troopes Fates page was once filled with bullshit and sure bullshit is still there but I won't let my trauma get to me so someone please explain what exactly happened so we can decide if was underhanded and personal or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ogP1Diw3Xs

I was gonna find the dialogue translation I read a while back but I found a video instead

It makes it seem like iago potentially have somehow pointed Ryouma in the direction of Kamui (not sure how he did it though? maybe tipped off a scout in disguise) in his an Garon's plan to make Kamui suffer and fight someone he doesn't want to? But Ryouma just wanted to fight and Kamui had to go and tell him extra info and it basically comes across as

"let's fight"

"i don't wanna fight elise is sick"

"well okay if you join me i'll leave"

"no"

"okay let's fight"

which loops back to his original intention about 5 sentences ago, the bit about elise is more of a detour than anything

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh wow, that's kinda simplistic. Kamui doesn't say what he wants to do in Nohr and Ryoma doesn't even bother to ask.

"U return to us?"

"No"

"Shobu da!"

Like, what the hell is wrong with their communication skills? Maybe some internal monologue would have cleared this up a little.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Internal monologue would be pretty cool ngl

honestly ryouma's too nice to offer him a nonviolent solution to begin with, i'd say he should just skewer kamui into a dragon kebob and do us all a favor :P

Edited by Thor Odinson
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh wow, that's kinda simplistic. Kamui doesn't say what he wants to do in Nohr and Ryoma doesn't even bother to ask.

"U return to us?"

"No"

"Shobu da!"

Like, what the hell is wrong with their communication skills? Maybe some internal monologue would have cleared this up a little.

To be fair, Elise was sick, so it was an urgent situation.

Kamui didn't exactly have the time to have a long discussion with Ryoma at the moment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was gonna find the dialogue translation I read a while back but I found a video instead

It makes it seem like iago potentially have somehow pointed Ryouma in the direction of Kamui (not sure how he did it though? maybe tipped off a scout in disguise) in his an Garon's plan to make Kamui suffer and fight someone he doesn't want to? But Ryouma just wanted to fight and Kamui had to go and tell him extra info and it basically comes across as

"let's fight"

"i don't wanna fight elise is sick"

"well okay if you join me i'll leave"

"no"

"okay let's fight"

which loops back to his original intention about 5 sentences ago, the bit about elise is more of a detour than anything

That isn't very blackmaily in my opinion. I see Garon and Iago being mustache twirlers and Ryoma just like being there in the middle doing what a general would do if he encoutered an enemy: fight them. Nothing out of the ordinary here.

EDIT:

And now I remembered why this didn't seem very blackmaily to me because blackmail is the extorsion of money or something of value from a person by threatening to expose a criminal act or discreditable information. Therefore Ryoma does not blackmail Kamui.

Edited by Yari Bryant
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because he's a sad lobster who had this shitchild kidnapped in front of him and he feels bad or something and also the game likes to fuck with every major character by injecting 300% Kamuicentrism thanks game thanks

I'm still salty about Suzukaze's treatment in Nohr poor guy gets it pretty bad

Tbh I think Suzukaze's character would've been drastically improved that, when Kamui finally decide to invade Hoshido, unless he's married off by that point (in which case at least then he'll have family in nohr he wouldn't want to betray), he leaves, or better, try to assassinate Kamui for the sake of Hoshido (and likely die trying because the game must go on)

It'd be a cool character moment and better than taking too long to explain shit in Hoshido 15 and missing that crystal, coulda save it for later, pretty boy

tl;dr i still vote to skewer kamui and my previous comment was only half joking

Raijin has some extra flame effects on that lightning, though, wonder what dragon bbq tastes like

Edited by Thor Odinson
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That isn't very blackmaily in my opinion. I see Garon and Iago being mustache twirlers and Ryoma just like being there in the middle doing what a general would do if he encoutered an enemy: fight them. Nothing out of the ordinary here.

EDIT:

And now I remembered why this didn't seem very blackmaily to me because blackmail is the extorsion of money or something of value from a person by threatening to expose a criminal act or discreditable information. Therefore Ryoma does not blackmail Kamui.

Well, Ryoma still uses the situation for his benefit. It's true that he didn't need to move out of the way for the sake of Elise's treatment, but he did forgo his original plan to fight Kamui when he grasped the situation at hand and went "hey, I am on higher ground right now. I should make him to do what I want or he dies", essentially coercing Kamui to do what he wants. Not very honorable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure if it counts as coercing if Kamui still got to refuse anyway and they just went back to what they were always gonna do beforehand

pummel each other's face in

It's not like Ryouma has hold of the medicine and is dangling in front of Kamui or anything, the meds are like, right there, they're even a chapter gimmick

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure if it counts as coercing if Kamui still got to refuse anyway and they just went back to what they were always gonna do beforehand

pummel each other's face in

It's not like Ryouma has hold of the medicine and is dangling in front of Kamui or anything, the meds are like, right there, they're even a chapter gimmick

To me it felt worse. Instead of holding Kamui at swordpoint (maybe he was gonna beat Kamui senseless and drag him back to Hoshido), Ryoma instead held Elise, Kamui's sister, at swordpoint when he made his demands. If he didn't know that Elise is sick, then he was just there to beat Kamui. But when he found out, he decided to go for the simpler method and go for it. He even said before that "there is no other choice but to cross swords" yet found the leverage he unwittingly held strong enough to coerce Kamui to their side.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure how can it be equated to holding Elise at sword point when he's not the one who made Elise sick in the first place

It makes perfect sense since Ryouma didn't know Elise was sick, therefore his only option at the time was to cross swords. If he wanted to drag Kamui back to Hoshido, and given new information, see a way end it in a nonviolent manner while end up with something both of them wants (tbh it's more like a deal imo), and Kamui didn't want the deal, so the path opened by the new information closes and he's back to the previous node on the action tree.

I don't think one cay say Kamui's coerced if Kamui didn't end up returning to Ryouma's side anyway.

I'm going to try to get into Ryouma's head a bit here. Obviously he cares about Kamui a lot. Part of it's due to the fact that Kamui was kidnapped in front of him, and he doesn't quite let that go. When Kamui joins back up with Nohr in chapter 6, he obviously feels betrayed. Part of him sees the need of treating Kamui as exactly what he is, a traitor, but the other part of him still wants his little sibling back (in his amie conversations, apparently losing Kamui the first time was very traumatizing to him, and granted the game can definitely be 300% kamuicentric but this is what i have to work with). He's balancing this feeling of anger and betrayal with how much he actually cares about Kamui, and he wants Kamui back but Kamui as an enemy is not gonna back down so easily. So when he got the information that Kamui's in the area, beating his face in was the logical path of action at the time, so he went to pick a fight.

However, when Kamui disclosed new information it:

1) Gives himself an option at not having to pummel Kamui's face in
2) Acquire an ally

3) Give Kamui something he wanted.

It would be absolutely unkingly for him to step aside when someone is an enemy, but an ally? Helping out an ally makes perfect sense and would ease the dilemma of both their issues more. This is the most logical path to take given the information. It was a mutually beneficial deal that Kamui just decided to not take for whatever his reasons for staying in Nohr he didn't bother to disclose. Kamui closes that possibility by refusing. Welp, back to pummeling his face back in.

Speaking of pummeling people's faces in, that seems to be Ryouma's preferred method of dealing with things. See: Shinonome recruitment, Chapter 13 post-battle vs Leon

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...