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Fixing Fates story issues (spoilers)

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La la la...

Not looking at topic. But I have to say is...

Ch 17 End Invisble Path(Don't peek if your not beyond this point...YOU'VE BEEN WARNED!)

After Ch17 in Invisible Path, this is going like the Laguz teaming up with Daein End Of FE10 Part 3. Ryoma+Marx/Xandar

Great game so far!

Edited by Princess_Florina

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I like it. Can't wait to see what you do with Nohr's lore, besides them not being happy the Dark Dragon gave them Mordor.

They'll probably have the four symbols as actual dragons as well since they're tied with Dragon's Vein.

Oh should there be something about the Golden Kites and the Tenma (Pegasus)? Tenma are Celestial horses in Chinese myths and don't care about gender like the common FE Pegasi, and the Golden Kite acted as a divine messenger in to an Emperor in Japanese lore. Hoshidans probably believe these celestial messengers were gifts given to them by Koryu to ensure they could fight back against the Dark Dragons.

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I'm glad you think it's good and I like your idea about the Golden Kites. And now, for the Nohr story, although this one is a bit shorter.

Long ago, the Dragons ruled the world under the tyrannical leadership of the Light Dragon Huanglong. When mankind first came into the world, Huanglong saw how quickly they adapted to the world and grew to fear their potential. Terrified that the humans would grow strong and challenge his rule, Huanglong and his armies conquered the early human tribes and forced them into servitude. This enslavement persisted for hundreds of thousands of years, until the Dark Dragons saw an opportunity to stage a coup against their ruler.

The Dark Dragons, who plotted and schemed in the shadows to overthrow Huanglong and take control of his kingdom, offered the human race an ultimatum; willing individuals could mate with them in order to produce hybrids that would be strong enough to fight the dragons on equal footing, or serve the dragons till the end of time. The Dark Dragons promised them that the Age of the Dragons would come to an end and that the Age of Man would take its place, with all the power and wealth of Huanglong's kingdom becoming theirs.

With no other choice but to trust the Dark Dragons, many humans took up their offer and within a century, thousands of humans were born with the power of the dragons. Their dark patrons taught them how to use these powers and the human quickly threw off the shackles of oppression and waged a war against the dragons. His worst fears fully realised, Huanglong ordered the dragons that remained loyal to him to produce similar hybrids in order to combat this new threat and the war was dragged into a bloody stalemate for millennia. Eventually, although Huanglong was driven into hiding and the dragons loyal to him were put to the sword, the loyalist hybrids triumphed over the rebellious forces and drove them back to Nohr, land of the Dark Dragons.

Unfortunately, the Dark Dragons were bitter over their defeat and blamed mankind for their coups failure. Angered by the betrayal of their kin and the Dark Dragons attempts to force them back into servitude, the humans turned upon them and killed them to the last, but not before so many of the hybrids, many of whom were slain in the war, died off that only one family remained. Declaring that no human would know the agonies of slavery again, the last remaining hybrid family was unanimously declared rulers of the nation and have led the free humans ever since.

Whelp, that's the Nohrian religious story. Of course, the piety of most people is similar to how it was in Plegia (Awakening) only agree with it publicly and privately don't really care or believe all that much. Many of the lower classes also note the bitter irony of how the whole thing basically sounds like propaganda that boils down to 'the Royal Family is so ​awesome, aren't they?' and how they've been forced into slavery in all put name in order to sustain the middle-to-upper classes.

Of course, the exact truth of the matter is hard to pin down, as Seiryū, Suzaku, Byakko and Genbu all appear in the story and who's memories of what happen all contradict each other; Genbu believes things went down as they are described (dragons, then humans, then war, but the details are lost on him) while Suzaku remembers that the dragons were already warring with each other before the humans showed up, Seiryū believing that the dragons had mostly died off before the humans even showed up and Byakko being aware that there was a war, but flat-out not remembering any of the details. The only person who might know the truth is Kōryū a.k.a Anankos, who isn't in a hurry to tell anyone what happened, preferring to just mess with peoples heads by implying different ideas that are mutually exclusive, like that he's only around three thousand years old but still had a hand in the evolution of early humanity, even though the human race is provable much older than that.

Edited by Phillius

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Why is the light dragon's name Chinese when everything else is Japanese themed?

Because the Light (Yellow) Dragon is present in the Chinese version, but not the Japanese version because the fifth 'element' in the Japanese version is Void, so there can't be an animal for it (I did my homework). Kōryū is a Japanese 'equivalent' because they share some traits, but isn't part of the pantheon, so Huanglong could be considered the 'real' version. Also so I can continue the theme of Anankos having lots of different aliases.

Also I would totally do skinship with Ornstein.

Edited by Phillius

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Questions for Phillius:

1. Are Kamui and Hydra/Anankos at all close relatives?

2. Have you scrapped or merged any characters?

3. Are you still going with the 'Reform Nohr'' issue? If it is, and you're still having Hoshido at war against Nohr, then do you have at least some ideas to fit them together in a proper way?

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I doubt this was addressed in the game, but why did Hoshido not declare war on Nohr immediately after Sumeragi was killed (and what was Sumeragi doing there in the first place)? Hoshido attacks Nohr after they kill Mikoto so why did they do nothing when Sumeragi was killed?

I want to keep Sumeragi's assassination in the my rewrite but I can't think of a good reason for Hoshido to not immediately attack them...

Did Hoshido just sit on its thumbs for over a decade?

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I doubt this was addressed in the game, but why did Hoshido not declare war on Nohr immediately after Sumeragi was killed (and what was Sumeragi doing there in the first place)? Hoshido attacks Nohr after they kill Mikoto so why did they do nothing when Sumeragi was killed?

I want to keep Sumeragi's assassination in the my rewrite but I can't think of a good reason for Hoshido to not immediately attack them...

Did Hoshido just sit on its thumbs for over a decade?

Would that surprise you?

Honestly though, I could easily see that as a lack of proof; how would they convince the entire nation of that? That said, I wish they'd actually talk about the assassination and the kidnapping in more detail. It's shocking how little of it we actually know about that...or well, anything at all really, but you you get what I mean.

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I doubt this was addressed in the game, but why did Hoshido not declare war on Nohr immediately after Sumeragi was killed (and what was Sumeragi doing there in the first place)? Hoshido attacks Nohr after they kill Mikoto so why did they do nothing when Sumeragi was killed?

I want to keep Sumeragi's assassination in the my rewrite but I can't think of a good reason for Hoshido to not immediately attack them...

Did Hoshido just sit on its thumbs for over a decade?

They lost a king under mysterious circumstances( there's no way to prove Garon killed him), and on top of that a member of the royal family was kidnapped.

Things in Hoshido must have beem quite hetic, there's really wasn't time for war.

But even if there wasn't a full-out war, small skirmishes between the two countries must have happened.

There's also the fact the Hoshido and Nohr have been fighting for years now, so determining when exactly the war began can be a little difficult.

Edited by Water Mage

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They lost a king under mysterious circumstances( there's no way to prove Garon killed him)

Would that surprise you?

Honestly though, I could easily see that as a lack of proof; how would they convince the entire nation of that? That said, I wish they'd actually talk about the assassination and the kidnapping in more detail. It's shocking how little of it we actually know about that...or well, anything at all really, but you you get what I mean.

Why is there a question of proof? Isn't it obvious? Garon shot him full of a bunch of arrows. I'm assuming multiple people saw this, unless Kamui was the only person present at that event? If so, why?

(I haven't played the game yet, but I'm open to being spoiled).

But even if there wasn't a full-out war, small skirmishes between the two countries must have happened.

There's also the fact the Hoshido and Nohr have been fighting for years now, so determining when exactly the war began can be a little difficult.

NekoKnight, that's a really good idea right there. Hoshido could have gone to war immediately after, but rather than being a year's worth of massive battles, it's been a decade-long, drawn-out series of skirmishes. A war of attrition on both sides.
Alternatively, perhaps Nohr is keeping Kamui as a hostage as a checkmate against Hoshido. That's what I first thought when I saw the trailer. Hoshido is reticent to invade because Kamui's life hangs in the balance.
Edited by CatskillEagle

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Why is there a question of proof? Isn't it obvious? Garon shot him full of a bunch of arrows. I'm assuming multiple people saw this, unless Kamui was the only person present at that event? If so, why?

(I haven't played the game yet, but I'm open to being spoiled).

You can't just accuse a king of murder without any solid hard proof. You just can't.

And considering that Garon's a king, he could very easily cover it up.

And if there were witnesses, they were peasants, whose testimony means nothing next to the testimony of a king.

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You can't just accuse a king of murder without any solid hard proof. You just can't.

And considering that Garon's a king, he could very easily cover it up.

And if there were witnesses, they were peasants, whose testimony means nothing next to the testimony of a king.

I think I don't fully understand. Can you tell me what happened in the game? I assumed Sumeragi was in Chevalier on some sort of visit with at least Kamui and his retainers. Garon shows up as we see in the flashback and just pokes him full of arrows. I haven't played the game yet, so correct me if I am wrong.

Was Sumeragi totally alone/in disguise or in some situation where he wouldn't have at least some retainers or court followers with him? I assumed Sumeragi's retainers/spies/whatever would notify Hoshido of the incident, provoking them to war. In that case, they wouldn't really ask Garon if he did it or not. It's not like kings are answerable to the other country's laws and they could put him on trial. War would follow instead.

Also, even if the retainers were killed, the king dying under mysterious circumstances while abroad in a hostile nation, all his retainers killed and his child gone missing would certainly be enough to provoke Hoshido to invade or at least engage in hostilities or hostile negotations with Nohr. I mean, really, who else beside Garon would have done that? Unless Hoshido doesn't have the manpower/army to engage Nohr in a war/invade in which case their hands are tied, since they're the weaker nation.

I wish there was more worldbuilding! Ugh.

Edited by CatskillEagle

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I think I don't fully understand. Can you tell me what happened in the game? I assumed Sumeragi was in Chevalier on some sort of visit with at least Kamui and his retainers. Garon shows up as we see in the flashback and just pokes him full of arrows. Is that wrong? Was he totally alone/in disguise or in some situation where he wouldn't have at least some retainers or court followers with him? I assumed Sumeragi's retainers/spies/whatever would notify Hoshido, provoking them to war. In that case, they wouldn't really ask Garon if he did it or not. It's not like kings are answerable to the other country's laws and they could put him on trial; war would follow instead.

Also, even if the retainers were killed, the king dying under mysterious circumstances while abroad in a hostile nation, all his retainers killed and his child gone missing would certainly be enough to provoke Hoshido to invade or at least engage in hostilities or hostile negotations with Nohr. I mean, really, who else beside Garon would have done that?

Even if it is obvious, you can't accuse anyone, especially a king, of murder based on an assumption.

I'm pretty sure everyone knew Garon was behind his death, but without proof you really can't do anything.

Also, like I said before, they lost their king and a member of the royal family was kidnapped, that really wasn't the time to go war, especially not because of an assumption.

Edited by Water Mage

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Even if it is obvious, you can't accuse anyone, especially a king, of murder based on an assumption.

I'm pretty sure everyone knew Garon was behind his death, but without proof you really can't do anything.

Also, like I said before, they lost their king and a member of the royal family was kidnapped, that really wasn't the time to go war, especially not because of an assumption.

Sorry I'll try to be more obvious:

Was Sumeragi completely alone without any of his court? It was just Kamui and Sumeragi? No one survived that event at all? Hoshido didn't get any direct reports about the event from their own spies or retainers?

Edited by CatskillEagle

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Sorry I'll try to be more obvious:

Was Sumeragi completely alone without any of his court? It was just Kamui and Sumeragi? No one survived that event at all? Hoshido didn't get any direct reports about the event from their own spies or retainers?

We know next to nothing about what happened in detail, much like the vast majority of events, places and characters in the game.

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Sorry I'll try to be more obvious:

Was Sumeragi completely alone without any of his court? It was just Kamui and Sumeragi? No one survived that event at all? Hoshido didn't get any direct reports about the event from their own spies or retainers?

He was with his retainers, Kaze was there as well.

However, even the word of a retainer, no matter how trustworthy, means nothing next to the word of a king.

And no matter how obivious, you can't accuse a king of a crime without proof.

And I'll repeat, even if there was proof, that was not the time to go war, they just lost a king and a prince went missing.

Things in Hoshido were far to hetic for them to declare war.

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We know next to nothing about what happened in detail, much like the vast majority of events, places and characters in the game.

That's.... very, very frustrating.

This is a pivotal moment in the story's history,

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He was with his retainers, Kaze was there as well.

However, even the word of a retainer, no matter how trustworthy, means nothing next to the word of a king.

And no matter how obivious, you can't accuse a king of a crime without proof.

And I'll repeat, even if there was proof, that was not the time to go war, they just lost a king and a prince went missing.

Things in Hoshido were far to hetic for them to declare war.

I don't agree with you on the first point. Many wars in history have been waged on less than explicit proof. Richard III didn't say explicitly that he murdered the Tudor princes and buried them inside the tower, but England went to war over it anyway. I think Hoshido had more than enough proof without Garon having to admit he did it. And the key is that Garon probably would never admit it, and they know it too?

Your second point is more salient to me. I'm sure there must have been a scramble for power and influence and Mikoto had to focus on keeping the court in check. Still, you imagine something would have been done in ten damn years.

It's probably what Thane said, just shaky worldbuilding.

Also, can someone please explain why Garon would go to the trouble of letting Kamui live just to attempting to kill them a decade later? Is there any point in even asking, given how little thought was put into stringing this story together?

Edited by CatskillEagle

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Sorry I'll try to be more obvious:

Was Sumeragi completely alone without any of his court? It was just Kamui and Sumeragi? No one survived that event at all? Hoshido didn't get any direct reports about the event from their own spies or retainers?

IIRC Ryouma reveals he was there to witness the kidnapping as well, he laments that he was too young to prevent it. This explains why he's so stubborn about getting you back, even if you side with Nohr.

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Wasn't Ryouma like, there

in his conversation with Crimson in IK he mentioned guilt over not being able to save kamui despite it happening in front of his eyes

wow ninja thanks internet

Edited by Thor Odinson

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Wasn't Ryouma like, there

in his conversation with Crimson in IK he mentioned guilt over not being able to save kamui despite it happening in front of his eyes

wow ninja thanks internet

Okay, so there's direct proof of it happening...

and nothing happens for 10 years, as far as we know this conflict only got started again because Nohr's invading? I'm sorry, what? And why?

Edited by CatskillEagle

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I don't agree with you on the first point. Many wars in history have been waged on less than explicit proof. Richard III didn't say explicitly that he murdered the Tudor princes and buried them inside the tower, but England went to war over it anyway. I think Hoshido had more than enough proof without Garon having to admit he did it. And the key is that Garon probably would never admit it, and they know it too?

Your second point is more salient to me. I'm sure there must have been a scramble for power and influence and Mikoto had to focus on keeping the court in check. Still, you imagine something would have been done in ten damn years.

It's probably what Thane said, just shaky worldbuilding.

Also, can someone please explain why Garon would go to the trouble of letting Kamui live just to attempting to kill them a decade later? Is there any point in even asking, given how little thought was put into stringing this story together?

You would be surprised by how long power scrambles can last. They can last for years.

Also, both of my arguments are connected, they lost a king, a prince went missing and they all had was an assuption, it wasn't the time to go war. It was the sum of all of these events.

If Sumeragi wasn't killed or if Kamui hasn't been kidnapped things would have been different.

And the Garon that kidnapped Kamui and the Garon that appear in the game are two different beings, and it's that by the time that the fake Garon appeared, the royal sibilings, or at least Xander and Camilla had already bonded with Kamui, so he couldn't kill Kamui without creating suspicion.

Besides, he kidnaped Kamui, only to kill him later? Other members of the court would also find Garon suspicious, and fake Garon couldn't have that.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I forgot about Ryoma being there...

But even so the Hoshido wasn't in the right political situation to go to war, without a steady leadership.

And besides, even thought Ryoma was a prince, he was still a child.

Which would be more credible? The testimony of a emotionally shaken child who lost his father and sibiling or the testimony of an adult king?

Edited by Water Mage

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Okay, so there's direct proof of it happening...

and nothing happens for 10 years, as far as we know this conflict only got started again because Nohr's invading? I'm sorry, what? And why?

It's mentioned that Kaze and Rinka are prisoners taken from a previous battle in chapter 2, when Garon has Kamui test his/her abilities. Marx mentions to Lazward that some retainers he was very fond of died protecting him from Hoshidans in their support. There has been conflict going on since Sumeragi was murdered.

Edited by Monado Boy

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War's a tricky thing to define, one could say that the war was going even before Sumeragi was killed, or one could say that the war only really happened after Mikoto died.

War is something that can be really ambiguous at times.

Edited by Water Mage

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War's a tricky thing to define, one could say that the war was going even before Sumeragi was killed, or one could say that the war only really happened after Mikoto died.

War is something that can be really ambiguous at times.

I think the barrier that Mikoto made and the Faceless being created by the Nohr to bypass the barrier is probably a clear sign that the conflict was still ongoing. I could imagine the war was intended to eb and flow and what we see in Fates following Mikoto's death is the peak of the conflict since the barrier would have greatly subdued it.

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