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At first I only heard it on one site. That was only about a month and a half ago. Now I'm seeing it trending on more than 6 sites and at least 2 social media apps. 

I think discussions are under way on preparing for civil war. I don't think either fraction is willing to work together or coexist anymore.

Since someone else said it I'm this thread already (I didn't want to go first) and I wanted to know ask what other's opinions are on it happening. As in, let's say hypothetically it was set in stone but we don't have a scheduled start date.

Im almost pretty sure the majority who own guns are conservative, so I don't think liberals odds of winning are looking too good. Assuming that about 50% of the military won't be able to be mobilized to come back and assist due to them needing to maintain their stations so we don't leave any vulnerable locations open to being seized by enemy countries, that another modest 20% refuse to shoot civilians, about 10% are conservative so they defect to that side, 10% stand down since they don't want to shoot their brother's in arms,  that leaves our military more either joining conservatives or not participating. So not only do you have armed civilians (which are in hunting season so they are working on that aim or theirs) but even a small fraction of the military who will support the right, it seems to me like the liberals don't have a chance of winning or living past a civil war. Especially since our current Commander in chief will clearly order most soldiers to assist areas under siege by antifa or any liberal groups. 

Of course the above percentages are speculation but you can see that the bulk of our military isn't really stationed in America and it's actually on bases scattered all throughout the world. I just don't see any tactical or strategic advantage the liberals have up there sleeves. Are they hiding the fact that they have weapons or something? I mean why else would they be poking a hornet's nest (metaphor for the more extreme right side people). Are they gonna use biological warefare?  I mean, I'm trying to see what good comes out of (metaphorically speaking) the little guy trying to step up to Hulk Jr thinking they are gonna win. 

And then looking more forward into the future at the bigger picture, what happens during or after our civil war (under the assumption it's pending). Other countries might try to seize this chance fight us. 

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17 hours ago, Dr. Tarrasque said:

The first Republican in the house comes forward in support of impeachment. Immediate calls to primary him.

He may be in the more despicable party but the dude deserves respect doing the right thing despite the sycophantic behavior from his side.

I'm rooting for him.  Standing up for the country should be what the politicians do.

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On 9/28/2019 at 11:06 AM, Tediz64 said:

And then looking more forward into the future at the bigger picture, what happens during or after our civil war (under the assumption it's pending). Other countries might try to seize this chance fight us. 

As long as the American nuclear arsenal remains relatively intact, nobody is going to start some actual shit. 

There's also the fact that only Mexico and Canada could viably used as a staging point for any invasion.

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5 hours ago, Excellen Browning said:

There's also the fact that only Mexico and Canada could viably used as a staging point for any invasion.

And getting into either is also very difficult and also make the US unify against anyone stupid enough to try, much like China did before the 2nd Sino-Japanese War.

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On 9/28/2019 at 4:06 AM, Tediz64 said:

At first I only heard it on one site. That was only about a month and a half ago. Now I'm seeing it trending on more than 6 sites and at least 2 social media apps. 

I think discussions are under way on preparing for civil war. I don't think either fraction is willing to work together or coexist anymore.

Since someone else said it I'm this thread already (I didn't want to go first) and I wanted to know ask what other's opinions are on it happening. As in, let's say hypothetically it was set in stone but we don't have a scheduled start date.

Im almost pretty sure the majority who own guns are conservative, so I don't think liberals odds of winning are looking too good. Assuming that about 50% of the military won't be able to be mobilized to come back and assist due to them needing to maintain their stations so we don't leave any vulnerable locations open to being seized by enemy countries, that another modest 20% refuse to shoot civilians, about 10% are conservative so they defect to that side, 10% stand down since they don't want to shoot their brother's in arms,  that leaves our military more either joining conservatives or not participating. So not only do you have armed civilians (which are in hunting season so they are working on that aim or theirs) but even a small fraction of the military who will support the right, it seems to me like the liberals don't have a chance of winning or living past a civil war. Especially since our current Commander in chief will clearly order most soldiers to assist areas under siege by antifa or any liberal groups. 

Of course the above percentages are speculation but you can see that the bulk of our military isn't really stationed in America and it's actually on bases scattered all throughout the world. I just don't see any tactical or strategic advantage the liberals have up there sleeves. Are they hiding the fact that they have weapons or something? I mean why else would they be poking a hornet's nest (metaphor for the more extreme right side people). Are they gonna use biological warefare?  I mean, I'm trying to see what good comes out of (metaphorically speaking) the little guy trying to step up to Hulk Jr thinking they are gonna win. 

And then looking more forward into the future at the bigger picture, what happens during or after our civil war (under the assumption it's pending). Other countries might try to seize this chance fight us. 

The issue with a second Civil War that the White Supremacists want isn't that they might win. It's the number of lives that will be lost because of the stupid whims of such scummy pieces of shit. They will lose, lives will be lost and the losers will attempt to whitewash the history again just like they did with the first Civil War.

Trump isn't significant enough to gather enough support to beat the number of those that don't support him and conservatives who aren't on board with become full-blown Nazis will be in conflict with those that are straight up Nazis fighting for "White America" and don't care for Trump because they seem him as a zionist.

Edited by Dr. Tarrasque
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16 hours ago, Dr. Tarrasque said:

The issue with a second Civil War that the White Supremacists want isn't that they might win. It's the number of lives that will be lost because of the stupid whims of such scummy pieces of shit. They will lose, lives will be lost and the losers will attempt to whitewash the history again just like they did with the first Civil War.

Ya know I'm half-tempted to say if there's a second Civil War with these Neo-Confederates--just let them fuck-off and have their own country this time. ('reconstruction' was a mistake)   

They can secede and have their own little regressive  ethnostate where school children learn about the Garden of Eden and Noah's Flood in their science classrooms, gays get electroshock therapy until they're cured of mental defect, and "[diversity] is code for white genocide."

We can keep being the United States of America. Without them.

Who knows--maybe we could actually make some real progress over here if politicians trying to get elected to high office didn't have to supplicate that element of the electorate.    

Edited by Shoblongoo
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1 hour ago, Shoblongoo said:

Ya know I'm half-tempted to say if there's a second Civil War with these Neo-Confederates--just let them fuck-off and have their own country this time. ('reconstruction' was a mistake)   

They can secede and have their own little regressive  ethnostate where school children learn about the Garden of Eden and Noah's Flood in their science classrooms, gays get electroshock therapy until they're cured of mental defect, and "[diversity] is code for white genocide."

We can keep being the United States of America. Without them.

Who knows--maybe we could actually make some real progress over here if politicians trying to get elected to high office didn't have to supplicate that element of the electorate.    

Excuse me, I live in the place where this supposed ethnostate would exist. I have no idea why you would condemn me to live in this theocratic fascist paradise, but I want no part of it, and would fight to the death to ensure it never happens. People live here, you know. People who might share your beliefs, and who might not be willing to let that happen. Don't disregard entire regions just because politics is against the people.

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48 minutes ago, Hylian Air Force said:

Excuse me, I live in the place where this supposed ethnostate would exist. I have no idea why you would condemn me to live in this theocratic fascist paradise, but I want no part of it, and would fight to the death to ensure it never happens. People live here, you know. People who might share your beliefs, and who might not be willing to let that happen. Don't disregard entire regions just because politics is against the people.

Yeah i know--its a terrible idea.

Half-tempted. 

I think realistically, though, there's no way we ever get to that point unless there's deep division within the United States military itself as to whether to support the government of the United States of America or armed insurrection against it. 

However divided the country may be atm: we're still at a place where if there was a faction openly bearing arms against the feds + attempting to overthrow a sitting government by paramilitary means, they'd be swiftly labeled terrorists + killed or arrested in counterterrorism operations, by the overwhleming response of professional servicemen and women.

...and that would be the end of it...

The military itself is still extremely professional about what it does and puts its professional duty above all political opinions; I simply do not see a scenario atm where it would splinter and fight against itself or turn against the government in armed conflict. 

And short of the military splintering or turning against the government, there's no way anything ever gets past the "federal agents have raided the militia's compound; multiple deaths confirmed. Suspects in custody" phase.

Think along the lines of the Branch Davidian Waco Siege, in 1993.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege

I can see things maybe escalating to the point where several of those kinds of--incidents--take place in the near future, with some of these armed anti-government groups that keep talking about 'Civil War.'

Nothing beyond that. 
  

Edited by Shoblongoo
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Anybody got tips for consoling distraught parents about the possible impeachment? For those that have no experience with with that sort of interaction, think of it this way. Trump is not an elected official, more like a son. The kind of person you only believe in and cradle harder with each fuck up. And when people say mean things about the president, they're actually saying those things about you, personally. Especially after your funeral - which several funerals in the last year have reminded you is coming up. And they're not wrong, since the biopics and historical films written about Trump and the people who elected him and can no longer defend themselves are going to be scathing.

I was thinking of going with the "heeeeyyy Pence will still be there" angle but they have only the vaguest notion of who that man is or how well he's going to continue the administration's legacy as quietly as legally possible. They seem to feel better when there's something or somebody to blame. Biden? Spies? 

On 9/28/2019 at 2:06 AM, Tediz64 said:

At first I only heard it on one site. That was only about a month and a half ago. Now I'm seeing it trending on more than 6 sites and at least 2 social media apps. 

I think discussions are under way on preparing for civil war. I don't think either fraction is willing to work together or coexist anymore.

What the hell, nobody is planning a civil war. Even if some wackjobs got together and terrorized the place with their guns, their targets wouldn't be the government, they'd be the usual "Great Replacement" targets.

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15 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

What the hell, nobody is planning a civil war. Even if some wackjobs got together and terrorized the place with their guns, their targets wouldn't be the government, they'd be the usual "Great Replacement" targets.

It's not planned per say but the idea was pushed by Russian Trolls, brought up by some pastor on Fox News and quoted by the orange turd recently and it's pretty much something the White Supremacists have been dreaming about ever since they saw the disapproval of Trump being elected.

Given the constant stream of stochastic terrorism by Trump primarily targeting people in power, the whackjobs would target people in the government, specially if they consider them RINOs (that's what they refer to as "Republicans In Name Only" which they use to label Republicans that criticize Trump). Are we seriously having this discussion after the several times we've seen threats of bombs or suspicious packages sent to government officials?

2 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

Ya know I'm half-tempted to say if there's a second Civil War with these Neo-Confederates--just let them fuck-off and have their own country this time. ('reconstruction' was a mistake)   

That may have worked out better in after the first Civil War but you'd also leave them with all the slaves they had...

Today though? That wouldn't work. They'd demand to have the US to whites, not so much settle on having their own country elsewhere. Hell, I've seen posts where these fuckers talk about how "white couples need to have 12 babies, raise the strongest military and then conquer South America". The "Great Replacement" or "White Genocide" would sooner be brought about as a reaction to their antics than actually happening as they describe.

Edited by Dr. Tarrasque
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40 minutes ago, Dr. Tarrasque said:

Given the constant stream of stochastic terrorism by Trump primarily targeting people in power, the whackjobs would target people in the government, specially if they consider them RINOs (that's what they refer to as "Republicans In Name Only" which they use to label Republicans that criticize Trump). Are we seriously having this discussion after the several times we've seen threats of bombs or suspicious packages sent to government officials?

Hey threats are threats, they'll always be made. When I was in high school I remember a bogus bomb threat that got us out of class in 2010. I'll agree that each new mass shooting and government office vandalism opens up many note-taking opportunities for those folks but as far as I can tell, these are the calls to war and they are pathetic. They'll use the word "war", and folks will fight it from their living room couch watching Fox News. But any correlations drawn to the latest mass shooting will fall on deaf ears because these are not the sort of people who organize or work together. Even the Unite the Right rally was a cesspool of finger blaming and infighting.

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11 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Anybody got tips for consoling distraught parents about the possible impeachment? For those that have no experience with with that sort of interaction, think of it this way. Trump is not an elected official, more like a son. The kind of person you only believe in and cradle harder with each fuck up. And when people say mean things about the president, they're actually saying those things about you, personally. Especially after your funeral - which several funerals in the last year have reminded you is coming up. And they're not wrong, since the biopics and historical films written about Trump and the people who elected him and can no longer defend themselves are going to be scathing.

I was thinking of going with the "heeeeyyy Pence will still be there" angle but they have only the vaguest notion of who that man is or how well he's going to continue the administration's legacy as quietly as legally possible. They seem to feel better when there's something or somebody to blame. Biden? Spies?

. . .and why is it that they support Trump, exactly?  This sounds more like a knee-jerk reaction to insulting an ideology, not a sitting president.

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1 hour ago, eclipse said:

. . .and why is it that they support Trump, exactly?  This sounds more like a knee-jerk reaction to insulting an ideology, not a sitting president.

Nobody ever has "knee-jerk reactions" to being their father's son. I'm not even going to ask what you meant by that. And I just indicated their relationship with Trump in my post. If the very idea of somebody being a Trump supporter is so incredulous then I don't think I can expect advice from you even if I laid out their life story.

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17 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Anybody got tips for consoling distraught parents about the possible impeachment? For those that have no experience with with that sort of interaction, think of it this way. Trump is not an elected official, more like a son. The kind of person you only believe in and cradle harder with each fuck up. And when people say mean things about the president, they're actually saying those things about you, personally. Especially after your funeral - which several funerals in the last year have reminded you is coming up. And they're not wrong, since the biopics and historical films written about Trump and the people who elected him and can no longer defend themselves are going to be scathing.

''I told you you?''

Well firstly you could try to reassure them that Trump won't end up getting removed from office. Its not a legal matter but a political one. The Senate is the one that would remove him from office and even if he's proven without a shadow of doubt to have abused his office the Republican senators will still protect him. There are also a lot of theories that this will actually strengthen Trump in the long run which they might be happy about. 

Secondly you could say that the genie won't ever go back in the bottle again. Trump isn't the end of American populism but the beginning. More freaks and vultures will be attracted to the office of president now they have seen how easy its to abuse. If Trump falls than another populist will simply copy his rhetoric and take his place. For people like me that's something that ranges from annoying to terrible but for Trump voters that should be at least some source of comfort. More people like Trump will come and finish what he started. Trumpism is here to stay no matter what happens to Trump. 

Also I mean no offense but that level of commitment to a politician doesn't seem very healthy. Its exactly that loyalty that can very easily be taken advantage of and on a personal level I imagine it could be rather distressing to be so devoted to someone who humiliates himself and his fans so often.  Its something of a peculiar trait in American populism that other variants don't seem to share. As sick as Dutch populists voters are of the establishment they repeatedly slapped Wilders down when he was going too far, Ukip crumbled very quickly without Farage and when Le Pen bumbled herself through the 2017 elections is cost her quite a bit of votes in a base she logically had a monopoly in. Such a business relation between populists and their voter is far more healthy for the voter and the populist alike. European populist are constantly evolving and learning from mistakes but Trump's overly loyal base gives him very little reason to learn and improve. 

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7 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Nobody ever has "knee-jerk reactions" to being their father's son. I'm not even going to ask what you meant by that. And I just indicated their relationship with Trump in my post. If the very idea of somebody being a Trump supporter is so incredulous then I don't think I can expect advice from you even if I laid out their life story.

If the level of attachment is that serious, there's nothing you can do aside from empty platitudes. You're also the teacher of their children, not their therapist. What's weird here is that you think you have to do something.

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Family can be frustrating like that.

Had to go to Holiday dinner last night  for the Jewish New Year. (i.e. see the Trump supporting side of the family that I only ever see at Holiday dinners, and generally avoid the rest of the year)

Got into it with my uncle. (hardcore Trump supporter)

He gave me the "There's no such thing as systemic racism in America; white men are actually the most discriminated against group of people in this country" speech.

...he knows I'm a civil rights attorney and that my main practice area is anti-discrimination law...

I told him that him telling me that was like me telling him there's no real proof that cigarettes are bad for you. (he's a lung doctor)

 

Edited by Shoblongoo
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11 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Nobody ever has "knee-jerk reactions" to being their father's son. I'm not even going to ask what you meant by that. And I just indicated their relationship with Trump in my post. If the very idea of somebody being a Trump supporter is so incredulous then I don't think I can expect advice from you even if I laid out their life story.

Reread what I quoted.  With context.  Twice.  Then post how you came to this conclusion.  Because I honestly have no idea how to answer this without your logic.

2 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

Family can be frustrating like that.

Had to go to Holiday dinner last night  for the Jewish New Year. (i.e. see the Trump supporting side of the family that I only ever see at Holiday dinners, and generally avoid the rest of the year)

Got into it with my uncle. (hardcore Trump supporter)

He gave me the "There's no such thing as systemic racism in America; white men are actually the most discriminated against group of people in this country" speech.

...he knows I'm a civil rights attorney and that my main practice area is anti-discrimination law...

I told him that him telling me that was like me telling him there's no real proof that cigarettes are bad for you. (he's a lung doctor)

 

Can I safely assume that he's Jewish?  If so, then the irony. . .

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Is there something going on that the news isn't reporting over there in California? Cause i'm seeing a hell of a lot of license plates from that state over here in Texas. The few times i've talked to some people, i've also come to find out that they moved over here and left that State behind. Is there something i'm missing? Was there one too many fires? An earthquake? Its barely past noon and i've already seen like 24 license plates from that State. 

Edit: I did a quick google search. I'm not seeing a mass shooting or any natural disaster that happened lately.

Edited by Tediz64
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59 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Can I safely assume that he's Jewish?  If so, then the irony. . .

He's one of those Jews who believes that since Jews are so hated but have so much academic and financial success--well now that must mean bigotry isn't really holding anyone back, and everyone who thinks that racism is a serious social problem just has a chip on their shoulder + wants to be treated like a 'victim.' 

Its selfishness. Plain-and-simple.

Like--he's got his half-million dollar home and his private boat and his fancy  sports car and his condo in Florida, and he's the kind of guy who will literally argue: "I had to pay to send both my kids to college; how unfair is it to ME if the government pays for it now"  as a reason why universal college + student debt forgiveness is bad policy. 

It's the politics of "I got mine; fuck everyone else."

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1 minute ago, Shoblongoo said:

He's one of those Jews who believes that since Jews are so hated but have so much academic and financial success--well now that must mean bigotry isn't really holding anyone back, and everyone who thinks that racism is a serious social problem just has a chip on their shoulder + wants to be treated like a 'victim.' 

Its selfishness. Plain-and-simple.

Like--he's got his half-a-million dollar and his boat and his condo in Florida, and he's the kind of guy who will literally argue: "I had to pay to send both my kids to college; how unfair is it to ME if the government pays for it now"  as a reason why universal college + student debt forgiveness is bad policy. "

Its the politics of "I got mine; fuck everyone else."

Ah, that.  Rather than use one's past suffering to ease the pain, it's used as an excuse for why everyone else SHOULD be in pain.  The lack of empathy is astounding.  Say, he wouldn't mind talking to someone who's way below his pay grade, would he?  I'd love to tell him how racism has shaped some of the lives in my state!

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9 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Ah, that.  Rather than use one's past suffering to ease the pain, it's used as an excuse for why everyone else SHOULD be in pain.  

Thats it exactly 
 

9 minutes ago, eclipse said:

The lack of empathy is astounding.  Say, he wouldn't mind talking to someone who's way below his pay grade, would he?  I'd love to tell him how racism has shaped some of the lives in my state!

See thats the thing--that's why arguing with those kinds of people is so frustrating and always feels so pointless. 

Thats what it always comes back to. And you can't argue empathy into someone who doesn't have it.

I can argue reasonable interpretations of fact. I can argue sources and methods.  I can argue conclusory statements. 

I don't know how to argue you should care about other people 

 

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11 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

Thats what it always comes back to. And you can't argue empathy into someone who doesn't have it.

Given that he knows more than a handful of people who went through a harrowing experience back in WWII, you would think that empathy would be a value he was able to pick up, because you can't teach it otherwise.

 

8 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

but Trump's overly loyal base gives him very little reason to learn and improve. 

...He seems to have picked that up from Duterte, too.

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1 hour ago, Tediz64 said:

Is there something going on that the news isn't reporting over there in California? Cause i'm seeing a hell of a lot of license plates from that state over here in Texas. The few times i've talked to some people, i've also come to find out that they moved over here and left that State behind. Is there something i'm missing? Was there one too many fires? An earthquake? Its barely past noon and i've already seen like 24 license plates from that State. 

Edit: I did a quick google search. I'm not seeing a mass shooting or any natural disaster that happened lately.

Housing costs, taxes and the fact that there's lots of job opportunities going to Texas, specially in tech. California is expensive to live in and if you've saved up and can move to a place where it's easier to afford a home, why wouldn't you?

California may be seen as a political heaven for Liberals but they can and have gone too with their laws now and then and they're not doing a good job of addressing the housing crisis going on there.

5 minutes ago, Karimlan said:

Given that he knows more than a handful of people who went through a harrowing experience back in WWII, you would think that empathy would be a value he was able to pick up, because you can't teach it otherwise.

You can. It's just not pretty and those that need it to be taught to them also tend to be those too cowardly experience the pain. Case in point: the actual snowflakes on the right like Tomi Lahren, Charlie Kirk, Ben Shapiro, etc.

It doesn't matter the origin or the ancestry, you'll always have folks in the family that end up supporting the unbelievable due to the politics of "I got mine; fuck everyone else.". I have a cousin who's a TV show host on Hispanic networks, he supports Trump, specially on immigration. Whenever he starts to get unpleasant I'll usually shut him down by saying uncomfortable like how our dead grandmother would be saddened to see her grandchild supporting a man who wouldn't think twice about deporting her husband because of the color of his skin. It's not pleasant to do 

Edited by Dr. Tarrasque
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5 minutes ago, Dr. Tarrasque said:

You can. It's just not pretty and those that need it to be taught to them also tend to be those too cowardly experience the pain.

I was referring to more, ahem, conventional methods of teaching lmao

But yes, one of the things that I'd like to think about (and eventually study) is how populists (or their backers) seem to subvert the very idea of free choice to serve whatever end they see fit. Idk, I oftentimes see how popular opinion can be, for a lack of a better term, ventriloquized and made to look beneficial for one side and detrimental to another. I needn't go far for examples I think

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1 hour ago, Tediz64 said:

Is there something going on that the news isn't reporting over there in California? Cause i'm seeing a hell of a lot of license plates from that state over here in Texas. The few times i've talked to some people, i've also come to find out that they moved over here and left that State behind. Is there something i'm missing? Was there one too many fires? An earthquake? Its barely past noon and i've already seen like 24 license plates from that State. 

It's probably just a coincidence on your end. But the reason anybody leaves is usually the cost of living and/or schooling. You can't feasibly put down roots here unless you've gotten a generous donation from your family or some other unique opportunity. 

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