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Ansem

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31 minutes ago, Karimlan said:

But yes, one of the things that I'd like to think about (and eventually study) is how populists (or their backers) seem to subvert the very idea of free choice to serve whatever end they see fit. Idk, I oftentimes see how popular opinion can be, for a lack of a better term, ventriloquized and made to look beneficial for one side and detrimental to another. I needn't go far for examples I think

The neutral side of me says it's tribalism.  The cynic in me says that it's a mild form of narcissism.

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I've always been fascinated in learning about the other side, the other view.  Especially if it is difficult for me to understand why, I always want to know the reason.  While most in my extended family voted Clinton, some voted Trump.  Now these people aren't the 'dunces' of the family by any stretch they are intelligent some extremely wealthy/successful.  So as I asked why, a 2 main responses (Luckily none of the stupid Hillary is worse or refusing to vote for a woman president).

1. I always vote Republican. So this pretty simple.  Pure party loyalty regardless. 

2. Cause Trump's views align with theirs on a hot button issue. Some are very anti illegal immigration and support any measures to stop it.  

 

If you are a woman or minority, actually anything but a white male a vote for Trump is a vote against yourself.  If the world is around another 40 years and I'm still alive I'd love to see what History books write about Donald Trump and the Republican led Senate that allowed him to get away with murder time and time again.

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

Like--he's got his half-million dollar home and his private boat and his fancy  sports car and his condo in Florida, and he's the kind of guy who will literally argue: "I had to pay to send both my kids to college; how unfair is it to ME if the government pays for it now"  as a reason why universal college + student debt forgiveness is bad policy. 
 

Okay, i like the universal college idea. At one point, i was wondering why i didn't bump into people who audited classes like i did from time to time on the fine arts subjects (like piano, music history, sculpting, etc) but then after asking a few people i learned quickly that not many people know you can take a class purely for the enrichment of it (ie: just for fun, to improve a hobby, or to meet more people with the same interest). By auditing you pay a fraction of the price but the downside is you don't get credit for it on your transcript. Anywho (just wanted to throw that out there for a few people reading), i learned people use college as a means to an end. They go for the degree to be qualified for the job they want. Very few go for miscellaneous reasons. So i can agree with universal college and smashing up the concepts of it being private and funding elite members of our society who own the universities. But the debt forgiveness? I could get into it with plenty of points, but i still think that part is the worse part to try and implement. I think the biggest beef i have with that is that, you send a message to people. Like a profound psychological message but not a good one. Next thing you know, people will vote for candidates talking about forgiving debts for car loans or mortgage loans since people will cry that it's a broken system and its elites taking advantage of the poor. We should veer away from setting that precedent. 

9 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

I don't know how to argue you should care about other people 
 

I think you can become empathetic towards others only after you enter some type of relationship with them (basically not acquaintances). Otherwise, you see others outsiders or people "not like you". Thus creating a barrier between the individual and the less fortunate. How you teach that or get someone to experience that is gonna be a tough one. 

I came out of a class that taught me a new phrase and had me do a paper on it. Its called "compassion fatigue". You could probably do a good job guessing what that describes just looking at the two words that make up the phrase. People in professions like law enforcement, medical field, legal advice/consultation field, and human resources tend to become vulnerable to this phenomenon. 

After learning how to combat it and then looking at society, i can say that its an uphill battle. Trying to prevent people from losing the empathetic part of themselves is only going to get more difficult as person ages and goes thru life. I see it as, it just becomes taxing on the mind and exhausting to keep caring about others. Eventually people break and stop caring. 

9 hours ago, Dr. Tarrasque said:

Housing costs, taxes and the fact that there's lots of job opportunities going to Texas, specially in tech. California is expensive to live in and if you've saved up and can move to a place where it's easier to afford a home, why wouldn't you?

California may be seen as a political heaven for Liberals but they can and have gone too with their laws now and then and they're not doing a good job of addressing the housing crisis going on there.

Now i'm concerned about the direction of Texas' future if more and more Californians come over here. 

3 hours ago, Lewyn said:

I've always been fascinated in learning about the other side, the other view.  Especially if it is difficult for me to understand why, I always want to know the reason.  While most in my extended family voted Clinton, some voted Trump.  Now these people aren't the 'dunces' of the family by any stretch they are intelligent some extremely wealthy/successful.  So as I asked why, a 2 main responses (Luckily none of the stupid Hillary is worse or refusing to vote for a woman president).

1. I always vote Republican. So this pretty simple.  Pure party loyalty regardless. 

2. Cause Trump's views align with theirs on a hot button issue. Some are very anti illegal immigration and support any measures to stop it.  

 

If you are a woman or minority, actually anything but a white male a vote for Trump is a vote against yourself.  If the world is around another 40 years and I'm still alive I'd love to see what History books write about Donald Trump and the Republican led Senate that allowed him to get away with murder time and time again.

People who vote on single issues (what you called hot button) tend to not see the far reaching impact of their choices. Metaphorically it's like a boulder being chunked into the center of a lake. Even they only wanted to disrupt a part of the water's surface, those ripples will spread out and inevitably reach other parts. I won't chastise those voters though. It beats the reasons other people use to justify their voting preferences based off a lack of knowledge and understanding. I hope people know what they are doing when they vote and understand our government and how it works. Not just whimsically voting for fun or cause they let other's form their opinions for them. I detest sheepeople. 

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11 hours ago, Lewyn said:

If the world is around another 40 years and I'm still alive I'd love to see what History books write about Donald Trump and the Republican led Senate that allowed him to get away with murder time and time again.

 

Ohoho historians are going to have a field day with the Trump administration. Its likely going to be akin to a modern Nero where the sheer size of the trainwreck will be enough to attract historical attention. Historians of the future will likely have a good bit of fun when examining the freakshow and will be able to enjoy it without worrying about it significantly damaging their future. 

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4 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Ohoho historians are going to have a field day with the Trump administration. Its likely going to be akin to a modern Nero where the sheer size of the trainwreck will be enough to attract historical attention. Historians of the future will likely have a good bit of fun when examining the freakshow and will be able to enjoy it without worrying about it significantly damaging their future. 

I'd add a Caligula/Ivan the Terrible element to it, possibly.

By which I mean, was Donald Trump purely a madman, or was he actually a rational actor with clear plan in mind?

There are historians out there who will argue that Ivan the Terrible was never insane, in contrast to those who say he always was. And there are those in the moderate middle of the ItT debate who say he was overwhelmingly sane until a certain point, usually defined as the death of his beloved wife, then he went mad.

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21 hours ago, Lewyn said:

If you are a woman or minority, actually anything but a white male a vote for Trump is a vote against yourself.

Trump got 28% of the Hawaii vote (or something like that).  Hawaii has a white minority.  Logically speaking, it means that there were non-whites voting for him.

I know one such specimen.  Who also happens to be a raging racist.  I don't know how one can be racist against one's own race, but it happened.

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On 10/1/2019 at 11:37 PM, Tediz64 said:

 

People who vote on single issues (what you called hot button) tend to not see the far reaching impact of their choices. Metaphorically it's like a boulder being chunked into the center of a lake. Even they only wanted to disrupt a part of the water's surface, those ripples will spread out and inevitably reach other parts. I won't chastise those voters though. It beats the reasons other people use to justify their voting preferences based off a lack of knowledge and understanding. I hope people know what they are doing when they vote and understand our government and how it works. Not just whimsically voting for fun or cause they let other's form their opinions for them. I detest sheepeople. 

Yeah it is hard to hate on these people.  They are super focused on a single issue, but it is cause it is what matters the most to them.  Sheep people suck, and is one of my biggest pet peeves.  

On 10/2/2019 at 6:38 AM, Etrurian emperor said:

Ohoho historians are going to have a field day with the Trump administration. Its likely going to be akin to a modern Nero where the sheer size of the trainwreck will be enough to attract historical attention. Historians of the future will likely have a good bit of fun when examining the freakshow and will be able to enjoy it without worrying about it significantly damaging their future. 

Yes.  Nero is almost a perfect comparison.  They are like the same person.  Historians are already shocked by Trump apparently.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/02/opinions/trump-impeachment-unprecedented-cobbs-longley-osgood-suri/index.html

20 hours ago, eclipse said:

Trump got 28% of the Hawaii vote (or something like that).  Hawaii has a white minority.  Logically speaking, it means that there were non-whites voting for him.

I know one such specimen.  Who also happens to be a raging racist.  I don't know how one can be racist against one's own race, but it happened.

Yeah there are self loathers out there.  Trump also got 53% of the white woman vote, which was one of the more shocking stats to come out of the election.  First woman president, or Molester/Rapist/Misogynist.  As far as his election I blame them the most.  White men voting for Trump, well they are voting for themselves to stay in power and not have any checks to said power.  (Though it was beyond stupid that working class whites thought Trump could reverse automation).  

 

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12 hours ago, Lewyn said:

Yeah there are self loathers out there.  Trump also got 53% of the white woman vote, which was one of the more shocking stats to come out of the election.  First woman president, or Molester/Rapist/Misogynist.  As far as his election I blame them the most.  White men voting for Trump, well they are voting for themselves to stay in power and not have any checks to said power.  (Though it was beyond stupid that working class whites thought Trump could reverse automation). 

If you were to make a Venn diagram of "women who protest outside of abortion clinics" and "women who voted for Trump", it would be suspiciously close to a circle.  Given the general mindset one would need to justify voting Trump, I'm willing to bet a chunk of those women were taught to be subservient to their husbands. . .and want to take a wild guess at which way those kinds of guys voted?

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13 hours ago, Dr. Tarrasque said:

Text messages of the Ukraine Scandal

Pretty much confirms Trump engaging in extortion with Ukraine.

Most Republicans don't care, the only way they will is if the US people turn almost unanimously against them.  Mitch is made of the same cloth as Trump but is actually smart. 

11 hours ago, eclipse said:

If you were to make a Venn diagram of "women who protest outside of abortion clinics" and "women who voted for Trump", it would be suspiciously close to a circle.  Given the general mindset one would need to justify voting Trump, I'm willing to bet a chunk of those women were taught to be subservient to their husbands. . .and want to take a wild guess at which way those kinds of guys voted?

So women against the right to choose with their own bodies and for misogyny?  I guess traditionalists who want to live like women in the 1800s perhaps?

No doubt what way those men voted, but it makes sense.  Trump benefits them.  White nationalists are a vile lot, but they voted for Trump and I don't blame them.  It makes sense cause it aligns with their goals.  

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9 hours ago, Lewyn said:

So women against the right to choose with their own bodies and for misogyny?  I guess traditionalists who want to live like women in the 1800s perhaps?

No doubt what way those men voted, but it makes sense.  Trump benefits them.  White nationalists are a vile lot, but they voted for Trump and I don't blame them.  It makes sense cause it aligns with their goals.  

My guess is "I was raised this way, and I have no problem with it", ignoring the fact that the US's values have shifted drastically over the last century.  Or some simply know no other way.  And some might genuinely believe the nonsense Trump says.  It's sad, no matter how you cut it.

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11 hours ago, Excellen Browning said:

Trump tried to extort China and Ukraine on national television like 2 days ago, as well.

Extort China?  I'm not sure if I want to laugh or bury my head in my hands.

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8 hours ago, Excellen Browning said:

I'd make up some nonsense on the Bidens in return for a stop to the trade war.

That would only work if the Chinese government is stupid.  Which they are not.

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36 minutes ago, dragonlordsd said:

Two things:

One, they actually need to hold a house session.

Two, they're probably making absolutely sure they don't screw this up.

Three, American voters have a comically short attention span 

Four, Pelosi wants to make sure impeachment is still generating headlines and getting buzz in the thick of the 2020 campaign news cycle vs. wrapped up and fading from memory by Thanksgiving 

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On 10/4/2019 at 11:07 PM, eclipse said:

My guess is "I was raised this way, and I have no problem with it", ignoring the fact that the US's values have shifted drastically over the last century.  Or some simply know no other way.  And some might genuinely believe the nonsense Trump says.  It's sad, no matter how you cut it.

Yeah how one is raised is such a huge influence on thought and development.  There is also so many different news media sources nowadays that it is easy to find an echo chamber, so parents raise their kids to believe a certain way then reinforce it when watching these agreeable news sources.  In general I think, and I don't know if it has always been this way, but it seems many don't think for themselves.  

When Trump came. I remembered the Birther thing and right there I was like hell no not voting for this piece of scum, however  I still listened to his speeches and campaign ideas.  While the other candidates (Demo and Rep primaries) had many plans and ideas, his was simply.  "Make America great again" "Lock her up!" and "Build a wall"!  He also said he would end all crime in America.  Of course there are no plans in how he would accomplish any of these few mostly vague claims and that is coupled with having zero political experience running for the most important and highest position in the land.  I guess we could dress up a cucumber in a suit and people would vote for him if it aligned with their party.  

Partisanship has gotten as bad as ever, and it all started with Newt many decades ago.  Instead of different idealogies coming together, debate and compromise, now it is blocking and name calling.  Party over country, party over the people.  

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I imagine the bottom line of the Syria decision comes down to Trump being able to say "hey I got us out of a war, Isis is finished". His 2020 campaign could use the boost in these trying times. But it puts conservative pundits in the uncomfortable/unprecedented situation of having to champion the decision of not using military force. 

Shame about the Kurds though. Their lives aren't worth this. I've been hearing some folks say "hey, his term is almost up, why impeach? Settle it at the ballot box." But sometimes the lives endangered aren't just us.

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Add it to the articles of impeachment. 

10 hours ago, Rukina said:

Trump's decision to pull US troops away from Syria's northern border as Turkey prepares to attack is cold.  This isn't sending a good message to US allies.

Trump is an idiot that doesn't think things through or much at all.  Glad he is our commander in chief, and this will likely hurt us and not too long from now.

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