Jump to content

General US Politics


Ansem

Recommended Posts

50 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Well if they have the votes to block witnesses, and they do indeed do that.  Information is going to keep coming out, and the Democrats should impeach Trump again and again.  It isn't going away no matter how much those spineless cowards want it to.  

Can't you try to impeach a president only once?

Edited by Etrurian emperor
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 14.4k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

5 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Can't you try to impeach a president only once?

Not quite sure, but my memory of the impeachment section of the Constitution didn't say anything about a limit, perhaps b/c the Founding Fathers never considered the possibility. But if you find new high crimes to charge them with, why not? It's not like you can't try someone who was acquitted of murder after DNA tests revealed they may be responsible for a separate murder. 

Although I've doubts a second impeachment could happen in this year. In 2021? That require a possibility become reality that sends me the furthest from my happy place, and hence I do not want to consider it.🙂

Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Can't you try to impeach a president only once?

There seems to be nothing preventing it, and I'm sure there are new charges the Democrats could come with (there is a bonanza of them that they decided not to use). 

If GOP votes no witnesses, then I'm sure the Democrats will have big consequences, more inquiries at the very least while they hold majority in the house.  The Coverup will be something repeated over and over again in the media and by Democrats and considering public opinion which has already shifted strongly for witnesses being called, a majority want Trump removed, and more importantly a large majority of independents want him removed.  Maybe flip the Senate back to Democrat control, get even stronger control in the House, and get Dem president.  Than like an iron fist of justice hard push everything they want through and pretend Republicans don't exist.  If they complain, point to Trump and laugh.  

Oh yeah and undo everything Trump has done, like he has done to Obama, so it is like he never existed.  All executive orders, and laws he's signed that were Republican supported but not Democrat supported.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Not quite sure, but my memory of the impeachment section of the Constitution didn't say anything about a limit, perhaps b/c the Founding Fathers never considered the possibility. But if you find new high crimes to charge them with, why not? It's not like you can't try someone who was acquitted of murder after DNA tests revealed they may be responsible for a separate murder. 

Although I've doubts a second impeachment could happen in this year. In 2021? That require a possibility become reality that sends me the furthest from my happy place, and hence I do not want to consider it.🙂

With the rate trump commits crimes at, I wouldn't be surprised if a second impeachment could happen before the end of his term.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, eclipse said:

Has anyone seen a MAGA flag on a car roof?  No, just me?  Yeah. . .time to update my voter registration.

Parnas actually said it best, Trumpism is a cult.  The reason the Republicans are so spineless and sinking to such lows,  is Trump's base is what is keeping them in power.  You betray that base, then you can forget about any votes for retaining your seat, in addition Trump will call anyone who opposes him out on it and do a smear on their rep.  John Bolton is now hated cause of the leak of Trump's bastard behavior?  Fox has panned him as a leftie, a dishonest liar, etc.  Yes John Bolton.

Yes right Trump's behavior, crimes, actions are never in question.  Dare to bring forth any testimony or evidence or speak against Comrade Trump, you are no longer part of the Right, the Republican party you are cast out.  Crazy right?  Sounds like Kim Jong Un or Putin (except they do it to the entire population and end lives too, but hey that is where we are headed).  Fox is Russian State TV.

I think it will be seen, that the GOP won't grow a spine, they fear the Trump's base wrath and his as well.  Even though certainly some would want witnesses, I think very few (actually wouldn't be surprised if GOP is unanimous) will actually vote yes.  

Bill Maher has also been saying for a long time something that I believe is very possible.  If Trump loses the election, he won't leave.  He'll investigate, demand constant inquiries, say it was a fix, a sham.  His base will support him and take up arms if necessary.  So what happens?  I think this is another gray area in law, it should be as simple as the military/law enforcement escort the president out of the white house but I don't think that is in there.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Impeaching a second time is technically a possibility.

4 hours ago, Excellen Browning said:

With the rate trump commits crimes at, I wouldn't be surprised if a second impeachment could happen before the end of his term.

If you mean this current term, then no chance. It took quite a while for Pelosi to go along with the first attempt and in order to try and keep things simple they limited it to just 2 articles of impeachment. You also have to remember that many of the folks higher up on the Democrat side are also corrupted by rich donors, they benefit from Trump's tax cuts, they won't push for it when Trump and the Republicans will frame it as them being Impeachment crazy and urge that they lose control like it happened with Bill Clinton.

Trumpty Dumpty built a wall, Trumpty Dumpty had a portion of it fall.

#AmericanDreamIsDead

15 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

Republicans seem confident they have the votes to block witnesses, and go straight to the vote-to-acquit from opening arguments 

The acquittal is inevitable. We can only hope they fumble this and witnesses do appear to continue to make Republicans look bad and further increase the chances of key Senators like McConnell being removed as they deserve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Can't you try to impeach a president only once?

You can only try the same set of charges once.

Given that they narrowed the scope of this impeachment solely to his attempted Ukraine shakedown and cover-up, they could absolutely impeach him a second time if they have other presidential misconduct that could form the basis of separately impeachable offenses.

...and the obvious low-hanging fruit there is embezzlement of public funds for private business + emoluments clause violations. (because of the character and nature of those charges and how politically painful they would be fore Republicans to defend)

The other thing to consider is that Trump did what he did with his Ukraine scheme immediately after the Mueller Investigation wrapped up. Which is to say that as soon as he felt like the Russia Collusion charge was behind him and he had gotten away with it and there had no real consequences, he felt emboldened to go out and do something even more brazenly corrupt.

...the way Trump's mind works--he can't help himself--he's going to again feel like whatever he does he'll get away with it when he's acquitted by the Senate.

....he's going to be emboldened to do something even more brazen.

...so its extremely likely that between now and November, there will be ANOTHER giant corruption scandal where Trump does something else that he can be impeached for.

And that a second impeachment proceeding could be instituted on those grounds. 

______

Dems can keep doing this until election day, if they're really going for maximum pressure.

And doesn't "first president to be impeached more than once" just sound so much better for the historical record then "third president to be impeached," for conveying to future generations how unprecedentedly crooked this guy truly was??? 

Edited by Shoblongoo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Excellen Browning said:

Third president to be impeached, first president to be acquitted though thoroughly guilty by spineless republicans. Also, we're a dictatorship now. Thanks, republicans. You had one job.

They did it perfectly, too.  ;/

Given how narrow the scope is, I wouldn't be surprised if it's like that JUST to ensure that there's some impeachment grounds somewhere, for as long as needed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

See--what they're forgetting is that everything in law works on precedent

And everything they're doing now + saying is proper use of legal process sets a precedent for what the other side can do to them once they're back in power. 
 

Edited by Shoblongoo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't worry their followers have short memories, cause of course they will scream at anything a Democrat does even remotely out of line.  Yes and we are a dictatorship now.

Oh and of course Trump will continue his assaults on law and more strongly than ever after this trial.  He knows he is immune and can do whatever he wants.  

There aren't three branches of government anymore.  Congress is subservient to the executive branch (Trump) and Trump owns the courts. 

Even if most people (besides his base) turn on Trump he can rig the election, use the courts to support it.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, eclipse said:

Tone the hyperbole down, will you?

I'm referencing an earlier post from another person, not my words but something I wholeheartedly agree with.  

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dictatorship

Trump blocks all witnesses, documents, he owns the Republican GOP who control the Senate.  They will support all his actions and can't be overruled since they are the majority.  He has put a conservative majority in the Supreme Court, and filled many lower courts with his own henchmen.  So what stops him? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Lewyn said:

I'm referencing an earlier post from another person, not my words but something I wholeheartedly agree with.  

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dictatorship

Trump blocks all witnesses, documents, he owns the Republican GOP who control the Senate.  They will support all his actions and can't be overruled since they are the majority.  He has put a conservative majority in the Supreme Court, and filled many lower courts with his own henchmen.  So what stops him? 

You are free to bitch about him here, for one.  Nor will you be killed if you don't vote for him on Election Day.

Let's start simple.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, eclipse said:

You are free to bitch about him here, for one.  Nor will you be killed if you don't vote for him on Election Day.

Let's start simple.

The thing is, simple doesn't help anyone. Why worry about mass dissent if the only seriously armed groups are in your favor? Why worry about protests blowing up if state and local police are just as armed as the military and independent from it? Why pay the opposition any mind if they have to play into the fears of your base to even attempt to beat you? We don't need to worry about losing rights when they already don't work. Not to mention that they can just as easily keep people down by depriving them of money as much as depriving them of rights. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So the Republiscum got their way.  No witnesses, no documents.  51-49.  Mitt Romney and Susan Collins were the only Republicans who voted for them.  Of course Mitch carefully gathered the vote and made sure they had majority before allowing those two to vote as they did.  

The president blocks all witnesses and documents, the GOP Senate refuses to subpoena witnesses/documents.  Most admitted that the president was wrong (in polite ways, like slightly inappropriate or whatever cowardly other words....please Mr. Trump don't kill me), but don't want to hear from Bolton and other key witnesses or see key documents they don't want to see/hear how wrong.  They don't want the American people to see it.

Yeah and you know what?  It isn't just oh the president was wrong and deserves to be removed, forget that.  The orange piece of trash isn't like other politicians where bad stuff comes out publicly and then they shy away from acting out of line at least for a good long while after people forget, after he is acquitted he is going to go right back at it.  Burisma has already been hacked by the Russians, Mr. Trump's true BFFs, oh but they haven't released anything....yet.  However if Biden is the contender, they will surely release key bits of info, embarrassing emails or whatever close to the election.  

However this is much different then Trump in 2016 when he didn't have the power of president, he got the Russians to interfere on his behalf.  Now he can do much more, besides getting other nations to do the same, he can demand investigations, he can manipulate the elections, voter count, and much more.  

Let's just vote the scumbag out right?  He can continue to interfere and rig the upcoming election, and you know what?  NO ONE CAN STOP HIM.  So tell me if that is democracy, tell me is that where leaders are chosen by the people.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Excellen Browning said:

It's not as hyperbolic as it used to be. The senate is going to pretend it has no power to stop the president from doing whatever, and chances are slim the supreme court will either.

Still actual hyperbole.  And IMO rather disrespectful to those countries who are under actual dictatorships.

14 hours ago, Hylian Air Force said:

The thing is, simple doesn't help anyone. Why worry about mass dissent if the only seriously armed groups are in your favor? Why worry about protests blowing up if state and local police are just as armed as the military and independent from it? Why pay the opposition any mind if they have to play into the fears of your base to even attempt to beat you? We don't need to worry about losing rights when they already don't work. Not to mention that they can just as easily keep people down by depriving them of money as much as depriving them of rights. 

Why do other countries go so far as to make criticizing the government a crime?  It's not a matter of an authoritarian government here and there, either.  Never mind the other freedoms (which the Constitution guarantees) that get stripped away, none of which is happening on a federal level that I know of.

---

Honestly. . .I think things will get worse.  But I also don't think we're sliding into a place where it's "vote this way or die".  Perspective is extremely important when dealing with something like politics.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, Lewyn said:

So the Republiscum got their way.  No witnesses, no documents.  51-49.  Mitt Romney and Susan Collins were the only Republicans who voted for them.  Of course Mitch carefully gathered the vote and made sure they had majority before allowing those two to vote as they did. 

Part of me thinks Mitt's vote was genuine. He's a conservative Mormon in Utah. He's as safe as you can get, and can vote however he feels like. He's one of the few major conservatives that hasn't played with the idea of bending the knee to King Trump.

Collins, though, her vote was entirely calculated after knowing for sure that the republicans were gonna win. She's the vulnerable one who has to play politics, and her vote was just that.

The republican party is rotten to the core. Nothing is going to fix this beyond a mass purge of them from the house and senate. But the damage will probably never be gone. The pro-fascism, authoritarian right is probably here to stay for the foreseeable future. Good luck getting these degenerates out of places like Kansas or the deep south.

Edited by Slumber
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/31/2020 at 5:59 PM, Rukina said:

Yeah banned by 160 countries, but you know we have to be tough on threats!  Exceptional circumstances, oh like the border wall was a national emergency?  Those words mean nothing coming from his administration.  I doubt his followers care about the innocents that might be killed from use of these, after all they are just dirty foreigners, to them anyways.  

19 hours ago, Slumber said:

Part of me thinks Mitt's vote was genuine. He's a conservative Mormon in Utah. He's as safe as you can get, and can vote however he feels like. He's one of the few major conservatives that hasn't played with the idea of bending the knee to King Trump.

Collins, though, her vote was entirely calculated after knowing for sure that the republicans were gonna win. She's the vulnerable one who has to play politics, and her vote was just that.

The republican party is rotten to the core. Nothing is going to fix this beyond a mass purge of them from the house and senate. But the damage will probably never be gone. The pro-fascism, authoritarian right is probably here to stay for the foreseeable future. Good luck getting these degenerates out of places like Kansas or the deep south.

Yeah Mitt's vote was genuine and he's paying for it already.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jan/31/cpac-says-mitt-romney-not-welcome-annual-confab-af/

He's a RINO now right?  You go against Trump/McConnell you are a traitor.  Independent thought is not allowed.  They actually brag about who united they are, the opposition to impeachment was bipartisan!  Cause yeah Democrats are allowed to think for themselves, they aren't outcast forever if they go against what most of the party wants.  This is why Lindsey Graham lets Trump walk all over him, sure he is a spineless slug still but he doesn't want to lose everything.  Not only does Trump and McConnell turn on you, Fox news, Rush, all turn on you as well thus making the majority of the conservative audience turn on you....and then you're finished.  

It's funny how Romney, Lev Parnas, Bolton suddenly look like these heroic figures of legend.  Cause they actually are willing to speak for themselves, something that is an exception in criminal enterprise of Republican.  

I think a mass purge is necessary, but yeah the damage will never be gone.  Deep South, uneducated rural white males and females often working class or living in poverty.  Yet they vote for Trump, they vote against themselves.  I don't know what you can say to that, but wow so sad.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...