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Ansem

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How interesting, the final tally is 306 vs 232. Which is how it was as well in 2016, before factoring the Faithless Electors.

I'd assume it won't be the same final tally, but as far as flipping the results, with 36 needed to drop Biden under the 270 threshold...

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38 EC votes is most combinations of 3 out of Georgia, Arizona, Michigan, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin. Rs have majorities in all of those states except Nevada and New Hampshire, which are also worth the least amount of votes. I don't think it's as hard as you're making it out to be.

Edited by Excellen Browning
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1 hour ago, Excellen Browning said:

38 EC votes is most combinations of 3 out of Georgia, Arizona, Michigan, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin. Rs have majorities in all of those states except Nevada and New Hampshire, which are also worth the least amount of votes. I don't think it's as hard as you're making it out to be.

Arizona, Nevada and Michigan don't allow faithless electors votes to be counted.

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I think faithless electors are too scared to vote against their population. Jon Favreau etc actually explained how a lot of this is just theatrics, starting with admissions from people in the Trump admin (they stated it's just theater) to the fact that the worst case scenario leads to President Pelosi. The fact that D's have the house bodes well for us.

https://youtu.be/ZHGV5prFFyU

Edited by Lord Raven
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If Biden had only won by a single state, I’m sure there would be an all out push to steal the election via the courts or a state legislature and it’d be a greater possibility.

Good thing he didn’t, but it is something to worry about in the future.

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Our president still refuses to say that he lost the election (or if he does, it's undercut by the accusations of cheating). I don't know why he's fighting this so hard. The dude really doesn't want to be president. Maybe it's the principal of losing that's getting to him? As hard as it always sounded to give your administration up to somebody that you believe may ruin the country, I've never heard of this level of drama before from a lame duck president.

On one level I get the denial, I had the same reaction to 2016's result. There were all those FBI reports of Russian hackers, hearing uncomfortable facts about how voting machines are connected to the internet and could be tampered with remotely. I expected to wake up the next morning hearing about some major scandal involving fake votes in one of the swing states but it never came. As a small minority of adults that understood a presidential candidate could win with far fewer votes before 2016, the result was perfectly logical no matter how much I hated the rules. People ran simulations on how many small states it would take to clutch an EC victory, compared to how little of the US population such a result would represent. I don't remember how long it lasted, but there was this period where I understood what happened but still refused to believe the result. Something had to be false. There was no thing and no body to get mad at. Other than getting mad about how we had the opportunity to change how we did elections, to re-enfranchise voters, and we squandered it. We didn't take Citizens United and Shelvy v Holder seriously enough. I don't know how we're going to correct those mistakes now, but I hope we at least try.

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22 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

Our president still refuses to say that he lost the election (or if he does, it's undercut by the accusations of cheating). I don't know why he's fighting this so hard. The dude really doesn't want to be president. Maybe it's the principal of losing that's getting to him? As hard as it always sounded to give your administration up to somebody that you believe may ruin the country, I've never heard of this level of drama before from a lame duck president.

There are two possible reasons why:

1. He's just that big of a narcissist. His stupid ego won't allow him to admit that more people wanted Biden to be president than wanted him to get a second term. You should recall, this is the same dude who wouldn't stop whining about losing the popular vote in 2016 when he became president.
2. When he's no longer president, he no has longer presidential immunity and can be charged for tax evasion, illegal business dealings, all those things he did and only came to light while he was in office.

Edited by Sunwoo
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There has to be severe repercussions for all these attacks on democracy Trump and his degenerate bastard co.  are trying to pull.  Trying to throw out millions of votes, trying to delay certification of states, pressuring election officials, and trying to persuade legislation faithless electors.  I think even the most inhumane torture wouldn't be enough for what Trump deserves.  

More importantly even if Trump fails, which so far it looks like will happen, it sets it up for someone in the future who is more careful, plans ahead to actually steal an election.  I also think if there isn't, that Democrats should pull this shit every election they lose and tell Republicans to fuck off when they complain.  Or well, actually they should do that now whenever Republicans complain about anything. 

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33 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

There has to be severe repercussions for all these attacks on democracy Trump and his degenerate bastard co.  are trying to pull.  Trying to throw out millions of votes, trying to delay certification of states, pressuring election officials, and trying to persuade legislation faithless electors.  I think even the most inhumane torture wouldn't be enough for what Trump deserves.  

More importantly even if Trump fails, which so far it looks like will happen, it sets it up for someone in the future who is more careful, plans ahead to actually steal an election.  I also think if there isn't, that Democrats should pull this shit every election they lose and tell Republicans to fuck off when they complain.  Or well, actually they should do that now whenever Republicans complain about anything. 

Oh wow. No way. That's how you ensure the system is removed completely. Saying you did heinous shit first is not a way to resolve the heinous shit being a thing.

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54 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Oh wow. No way. That's how you ensure the system is removed completely. Saying you did heinous shit first is not a way to resolve the heinous shit being a thing.

If Trump isn't and GOP aren't punished then Democrats have no choice.  Otherwise they are fighting with one hand tied behind their back.  With the crap Trump and co. are doing they should get blown out in the Georgia runoffs, but Republiscum obviously don't care.  Then is the law going to punish these a-holes?  

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2 hours ago, Lewyn said:

If Trump isn't and GOP aren't punished then Democrats have no choice.  Otherwise they are fighting with one hand tied behind their back.  With the crap Trump and co. are doing they should get blown out in the Georgia runoffs, but Republiscum obviously don't care.  Then is the law going to punish these a-holes?  

Is having two piles of steaming shit really preferable to one?

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Yeah lets not set the republic on fire ourselves just for the sake of winning, particularly when it's entirely feasible that the other side may win again and we've helped destroy even more guardrails. 🙂 Sounds very not good.

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I have no fucking clue what to do when 40% of this country insists on a coup to subvert democracy.

But... I mean, the fact that both R Senate candidates in Georgia have done insider trading in the wake of the pandemic and been completely unpunished means that our elections aren't exactly working, either.

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6 hours ago, Crysta said:

Sure, but I happen to like elections compared to the alternative.

I'm not talking about subverting democracy, I'm talking about prosecuting the lot of them for sedition and other assorted crimes. 

Edit; the US is perfectly fine with throwing the book at leftist activists and trumping up charges, but for some reason people who are attempting to actually subvert republican democracy get to just walk away?

Edited by Excellen Browning
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I understand the frustration and wanting to retaliate, and I'm not at all interested in pre-negotiating with the GOP or expecting them to engage in good faith. Sadly being a craven asshole and enabling your orange god isn't illegal as far as I know, though said orange god should be charged with election fraud -- there's already far more evidence of that on his end than on the election officials or voting machines.

But their willingness to undermine the legitimacy of our electoral process may, ironically enough, backfire and demoralize their voters from participating in the upcoming Georgia elections. Can't say I'm a fan of making the same mistake just because they did it first. It doesn't actually, you know, help.

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I think no one is above the law.  Naive and idealistic.  Rich people can afford massive law teams, delay cases for years cause they could afford the legal fees, then appeal again and again.  That is for every minor thing as well as major.  They get away with most of the stuff.  The president is another step up and is almost immune, however Trump's abuse of power and disregard of laws isn't just not knowing or some political action that was a mistake, it is purposeful.  Wiping his fat ass with the constitution and not giving a fuck.  That can't be tolerated, or ignored.  Trump doesn't get to rise again, he needs to be struck down permanently (jailed, bankrupt, humiliated).  Again this isn't just to punish Trump it is to make sure that other people don't even think about following in his footsteps.  Otherwise I'm sure we'll be in a dictatorship within a few decades. 

Thank goodness Michigan certified vote, and GSA has approved transition.  

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The current fight is just another battle in a war that humanity's been raging for goodness-knows-how-long.  This isn't something that is going to go away once we clean the White House of its current infestation.  A nontrivial number of people apparently don't see authoritarianism as a Bad Enough Thing, and a subset of those actually want it.  Is there an easy answer?  Probably not.  Burning everything down is the last resort, not the first.

In other words, if you guys are serious about never wanting to see a shitshow like the last four years ever again, be prepared to fight it for the rest of your lives.

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6 hours ago, eclipse said:

The current fight is just another battle in a war that humanity's been raging for goodness-knows-how-long.  This isn't something that is going to go away once we clean the White House of its current infestation.  A nontrivial number of people apparently don't see authoritarianism as a Bad Enough Thing, and a subset of those actually want it.  Is there an easy answer?  Probably not.  Burning everything down is the last resort, not the first.

In other words, if you guys are serious about never wanting to see a shitshow like the last four years ever again, be prepared to fight it for the rest of your lives.

Could get rid of presidents entirely. That could be a step in the right direction.

 

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