General US Politics

[Acacia Sgt]

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

You do realize that's a race, right?

It's an Ethnicity. Subgroup of the larger Germanic Ethnic group. While the Irish are an ethnic subgroup to the larger Gaelic group. It encompasses more than just race.

[Jotari]

13 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

It's an Ethnicity. Subgroup of the larger Germanic Ethnic group. While the Irish are an ethnic subgroup to the larger Gaelic group. It encompasses more than just race.

Ethnicity is cultural background. Celts and Anglo Saxon are of different racial groups having different European origins. Need not look any further than the language which is entirely unrelated to German 

http://nualeargais.ie/gnag/gaeilge.htm

And though there's been a massive mixing of genes over the centuries we can still see genetic differences with Celts having a higher ratio of red heads than Anglo Saxons.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by Jotari

[Acacia Sgt]

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

Ethnicity is cultural background. Celts and Anglo Saxon are of different racial groups having different European origins. Need not look any further than the language which is entirely unrelated to German 

http://nualeargais.ie/gnag/gaeilge.htm

And though there's been a massive mixing of genes over the centuries we can still see genetic differences with Celts having a higher ratio of red heads than Anglo Saxons.

Exactly. The Irish may not have been too different in terms of race, but it was other facets of their identity, like culture and religion, which put them at odds with the Anglo-Saxons, no matter which side of the pond.

[Armchair General]

30 minutes ago, Crysta said:

Outside filling the spacious gaps in our U.S. history courses, a loooooot more people need to take sociology and political science courses in college

Or earlier than that, really

Honestly, I could do without those. I just want a STEM degree without paying extra, FFS.

[Crysta]

1 minute ago, Armchair General said:

Honestly, I could do without those. I just want a STEM degree without paying extra, FFS.

I suspect a lot of people feel the same.

EDIT: And I'll keep having to explain what the 1st amendment is

Edited January 10, 2021 by Crysta

[eclipse]

So high school, then.  Some states do a better job with their history courses than others.  Can't imagine the deep red states acknowledging all the racism in the past~!

[Armchair General]

2 minutes ago, eclipse said:

So high school, then.  Some states do a better job with their history courses than others.  Can't imagine the deep red states acknowledging all the racism in the past~!

Yeah, history in school was mainly the same content, but with a few different chapters, each year that we never cut really finished.

 

4 minutes ago, Crysta said:

I suspect a lot of people feel the same.

EDIT: And I'll keep having to explain what the 1st amendment is

Yeah, to make it so bad, it's something that I could easily pass, too.

[eclipse]

1 minute ago, Armchair General said:

Yeah, history in school was mainly the same content, but with a few different chapters, each year that we never cut really finished.

My high school self thought it was boring.  Teaching history and making it interesting is quite the task!  Though one of my history teachers tried to make us play roles of certain types of people in the Civil War, and debate.  Except a certain brat somehow wound up as a white male land-owning slave, and that kind of threw a wrench into everything.

[Sooks]

8 minutes ago, eclipse said:

So high school, then.  Some states do a better job with their history courses than others.  Can't imagine the deep red states acknowledging all the racism in the past~!

I live in a blue state and this is basically true.

Although we did just become blue.

[Sunwoo]

As someone who majored exclusively in physical science fields and yet still had to take various humanities and biological sciences classes to graduate, I think people should have some basic knowledge about things outside of their area of expertise. I might not have appreciated taking history back then (and if I recall correctly, I think I chose the history class that didn't focus on recent or U.S. history, but it's important to have a little bit of understanding on everything. Because apparently, not everyone is like me and fills up bookshelves after bookshelves with books on climate change, psychology, history, math, sociology, etc.

Speaking as someone else from a blue state, sometimes that's not quite enough. My actual district is ... well, it's more red than blue. We're kind of 50-50, but Republicans have been in power more often than not here. But I had really awesome teachers back in high school who taught me the most important thing of all: to think, analyze, look at things that are not on the surface, underlying meanings. I think what we really need to do is to teach our children how to fucking think for themselves.

[eclipse]

Oh, right.  The upside to history in college was that it exposed me to Islam, in a good way.  As a result, I was able to have a minor screaming match about some of the idiotic things my mother's church said.

The best cure for ignorance is knowledge, and it may come in unexpected places.

[Shipnoez]

8 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

I think what we really need to do is to teach our children how to fucking think for themselves.

I think the problem that occurs when you do this is that it's not really in the interests of the ruling class to make people who are aware of the world around them to a point where they realise something is deeply wrong and want to make a change. But I absolutely agree.

[Crysta]

Well, no one is stopping you from taking those courses even en route to a different degree. After high school, your education is largely in your own hands.

Our capitalist society just undervalues liberal arts courses and degrees.

[eclipse]

51 minutes ago, Crysta said:

Well, no one is stopping you from taking those courses even en route to a different degree. After high school, your education is largely in your own hands.

Our capitalist society just undervalues liberal arts courses and degrees.

Assuming the people in question make it to college in the first place.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Exactly. The Irish may not have been too different in terms of race, but it was other facets of their identity, like culture and religion, which put them at odds with the Anglo-Saxons, no matter which side of the pond.

I'm not saying it's a difference in language (because the Irish were speaking English), but that language can indicate how closely related people are, and the Irish language is not related to German at all. Much like the Irish people are not related to Germans, having come from central Europe centuries before Germans were a thing and getting to the island via land bridges and then, subsequently being separated from the rest of Europe form changes in sea levels. The Irish are more distinct from Germanic people than modern Japanese are from Chinese. Exactly where the line between race and ethnicity should be drawn is a silly conversation at the end of the day because we're all human and it doesn't matter, what does matter though is how people have historically been treated, and much like how the Japanese butchered the Chinese claiming racial superiority, and the aryans butchered the slavs, the Irish have been discriminated by the British on racial grounds. Ie they were looked down on as inferior not just because of their upbringing, but because of their inherent nature.

[Acacia Sgt]

12 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I'm not saying it's a difference in language (because the Irish were speaking English), but that language can indicate how closely related people are, and the Irish language is not related to German at all. Much like the Irish people are not related to Germans, having come from central Europe centuries before Germans were a thing and getting to the island via land bridges and then, subsequently being separated from the rest of Europe form changes in sea levels. The Irish are more distinct from Germanic people than modern Japanese are from Chinese. Exactly where the line between race and ethnicity should be drawn is a silly conversation at the end of the day because we're all human and it doesn't matter, what does matter though is how people have historically been treated, and much like how the Japanese butchered the Chinese claiming racial superiority, and the aryans butchered the slavs, the Irish have been discriminated by the British on racial grounds. Ie they were looked down on as inferior not just because of their upbringing, but because of their inherent nature.

What exactly is your point here? You seem to be under the mistake that I was equating the Irish with the Germanic Ethnicity. Never did I brought up Language either.

On the contrary, my point was precisely because the Irish and Anglo-Saxons belonged to different ethnicities, the bad blood between them was tied to more than just race. Irish discrimination in the United States had to do more that they weren't Anglo-Saxons, and were Catholics to boot, than whether or not they were White. Which isn't a thing that applied alone to the Irish. Other European immigrant groups would receive the same treatment, even Germans. And that treatment had consequences, as seen when hundreds defected during the Mexican-American War, the Irish specially. A Protestant Anglo-Saxon country at war with their non-Anglo Catholic neighbor, and land occupation was involved? It hit too close to home!

Ultimately, the point was to say race sometimes wasn't the main reason for discrimination, and the Irish are a good example of that.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Acacia Sgt

[Jotari]

2 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

What exactly is your point here? You seem to be under the mistake that I was equating the Irish with the Germanic Ethnicity. Never did I brought up Language either.

On the contrary, my point was precisely because the Irish and Anglo-Saxons belonged to different ethnicities, the bad blood between them was tied to more than just race. Irish discrimination in the United States had to do more that they weren't Anglo-Saxons, and were Catholics to boot, than whether or not they were White. Which isn't a thing that applied alone to the Irish. Other European immigrant groups would receive the same treatment, even Germans. And that treatment had consequences, as seen when hundreds defected during the Mexican-American War, the Irish specially. A Protestant Anglo-Saxon country at war with their non-Anglo Catholic neighbor, and land occupation was involved? It hit too close to home!

Ultimately, the point was to say race sometimes wasn't the main reason for discrimination, and the Irish are a good example of that.

What I'm saying is that the Celts and the Anglo Saxons are of different races, not just different ethnicity. That superiority/inferitoy was perceived not just because of how they prayed or spoke, but because of the literal blood running through the veins.

[joevar]

11 hours ago, XRay said:

Desert Storm, Black Hawk Down, and NATO intervention in the Balkans during the period I grew up also heavily contributed to that mythos. As cheesy and naive as it sounds, my parents and society was kind of marketing America as if it were the Order of Heroes reaching across time and space saving each and every world (or at least tried to in the case of Somalia).

black hawk down like they portray in films, or just the dark reality of it? i actually glad some people honestly think like that. but just like any fiction, sometime the result is different to what people think, regardless of intention.

Spoiler

again, i dont think country with power acting like heroes is more just than say similar country with similar problem trying to help.

11 hours ago, XRay said:

If I was Arabic and most of my friends are from the Middle East, there is a fat chance I am going to be blessed with the number of close friends that I have now, and God have mercy if I lost the lottery and was born in Iraq as a girl only to be captured by terrorists.

hmmm.... i want to comment but i dont quite understand the point, so i will refrain to avoid misunderstanding

11 hours ago, XRay said:

America survived a mob breaking into the Capitol, and as humiliating as having that absolutely disgusting and beyond filthy Confederate flag inside the Capitol is, survival rather than embarrassment would be our adversaries' top concern if the Kremlin or Forbidden City was stormed. Not only is America fully intact with practically no sign of economic disruption, at worse, the nation is just in heavy psychological shock, the material damage is going to come out of our tax dollars, and the only people who died were traitors who committed treason and attacked the United States. Despite having the presidency crippled by utter incompetence, with half of our politicians undermining the country and half of our population supporting those efforts, we are still standing today.

maybe because of the lack of example, but Mob breaking into capitol or equivalent of it in any country actually not instantly mean the country will be crippled or collapse.

a certain date in 1998 in a certain country, a large amount of young people actually manage to seize the government building (the equivalent of Capitol building for senate/people representative/govt.executive). The result? government forced to change their way for the better after being in down spiral for quite some time. Altho the cause for that seize is opposite  of what happen to US.

and funnily enough sadly some people who brought that wind of change started to become corrupt like the one they took down after taking the mantle of authority 20 year later.. sigh...

Edited January 10, 2021 by joevar

[XRay]

3 hours ago, joevar said:

hmmm.... i want to comment but i dont quite understand the point, so i will refrain to avoid misunderstanding

The context is that a lot of local Arabs who helped us and made significant contributions to the United States by saving our soldiers lived were abandoned and left to fend for themselves. Similarly, the Kurds who have been staunch American allies in the region are also being fucked over with our haphazard foreign policy. That is in stark contrast to the evacuation and protection that many Southeast Asians received at the end of the Vietnam War to get them out of harm's way.

If I was Arab instead of Asian, and my group of friends have ancestry from the Middle East instead of Southeast Asia, I probably would not have the number of friends that I have now, due to America's decision to abandon our allies in the Middle East. And if I was born in Iraq instead of America, I imagine I would be pretty miserable right now.

3 hours ago, joevar said:

black hawk down like they portray in films, or just the dark reality of it? i actually glad some people honestly think like that. but just like any fiction, sometime the result is different to what people think, regardless of intention.

How they portrayed in the films and mass media. The reality is that we made some serious fuck ups and caused quite a bit of civilian casualties despite our initial intentions to help.

3 hours ago, joevar said:

maybe because of the lack of example, but Mob breaking into capitol or equivalent of it in any country actually not instantly mean the country will be crippled or collapse.

a certain date in 1998 in a certain country, a large amount of young people actually manage to seize the government building (the equivalent of Capitol building for senate/people representative/govt.executive). The result? government forced to change their way for the better after being in down spiral for quite some time. Altho the cause for that seize is opposite  of what happen to US.

and funnily enough sadly some people who brought that wind of change started to become corrupt like the one they took down after taking the mantle of authority 20 year later.. sigh...

I cannot speak for Russia, but at least for China, when their capital city gets stormed without some actual plan or preparation (e.g.: the imperial family evacuating before hand), it usually means that the ruling dynasty is at its end, or are very close to it.

Even if the imperial family evacuates or had branch families to continue dynastic rule if the main branch gets compromised, the only major dynasty that I can think that managed to keep the rest of the country together for some time despite losing its capital would be the Song dynasty who retreated to the southern provinces, but even their days were numbered as the Mongol empire eventually wore them down and conquered them.

Edited January 10, 2021 by XRay

[Jotari]

12 hours ago, XRay said:

Our idealized national mythos is that America IS a charity nation trying to do good and spreading democracy throughout the world. At least that is what my parents and society at large installed in me on what to expect from America when I grew up. In some ways, America made some surprisingly responsible decisions during that time to back that perception up. If we just look at how we treated Arab collaborators and Kurds right now compared to how we treated South East Asians thirty to forty years ago, the contrast is horrifyingly stark. A lot of my friends are from families that have roots from South East Asia, and after the Vietnam War, America did try to evacuate a lot of my friend's parents and family from South East Asia and settle them here due to their contribution to the war effort over there. Obviously, there was hesitation due to racism in allowing so many immigrants to settle in America at that time, but despite that hesitation, America ultimately went through with it and absorbed a significant number of refugees. Because of that decision, my group of friends and I are the only people we know to be blessed with being able to count the number of close friends we have with all ten fingers; many people cannot even count with half the fingers on one hand. If America turned her back on her allies back then, my group of friends would dwindle to like maybe two or three other people, as many of their families would not have come here and my friends would not be born here. If I was Arabic and most of my friends are from the Middle East, there is a fat chance I am going to be blessed with the number of close friends that I have now, and God have mercy if I lost the lottery and was born in Iraq as a girl only to be captured by terrorists.

Desert Storm, Black Hawk Down, and NATO intervention in the Balkans during the period I grew up also heavily contributed to that mythos. As cheesy and naive as it sounds, my parents and society was kind of marketing America as if it were the Order of Heroes reaching across time and space saving each and every world (or at least tried to in the case of Somalia).

What little comfort I can find from being laughed at by our adversaries is the fact that America survived a mob breaking into the Capitol, and as humiliating as having that absolutely disgusting and beyond filthy Confederate flag inside the Capitol is, survival rather than embarrassment would be our adversaries' top concern if the Kremlin or Forbidden City was stormed. Not only is America fully intact with practically no sign of economic disruption, at worse, the nation is just in heavy psychological shock, the material damage is going to come out of our tax dollars, and the only people who died were traitors who committed treason and attacked the United States. Despite having the presidency crippled by utter incompetence, with half of our politicians undermining the country and half of our population supporting those efforts, we are still standing today.

Hopefully with Biden in charge, we can bring back America to its senses and fulfill her duties.

Went back to this comment because I liked that Order of Heroes parallel (so sorry if this has been brought up already, did a ctrl+f but didn't find anything), but re: the bold, wasn't a police officer killed during the riots?

Edited January 10, 2021 by Jotari

[Crysta]

Yeah he got his head bashed in with a fire extinguisher.

The more details that come out the worse it looks in general, really.

EDIT: This is a good account of the entirety of what happened... or at least most of it.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Crysta

[XRay]

42 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Went back to this comment because I liked that Order of Heroes parallel (so sorry if this has been brought up already, did a ctrl+f but didn't find anything), but re: the bold, wasn't a police officer killed during the riots?

27 minutes ago, Crysta said:

Yeah he got his head bashed in with a fire extinguisher.

The more details that come out the worse it looks in general, really.

EDIT: This is a good account of the entirety of what happened... or at least most of it.

Oh damn. Just looked it up and an officer did die. I thought it was just the rioters who died. Hope his family is doing okay.

I hope the family can find justice and the courts can imprison those who are responsible. If it was caught on camera, hopefully that should make it easier.

Edited January 10, 2021 by XRay

[Shoblongoo]

Imagine for a moment that you’ve spent the past 4 years on alt-right message boards, getting your mind and ego obliterated to the point that you actually believe all that Donald Trump says and does is part of some 4-dimensional chess grand master plan you’d have to be a genius to understand.

You board a plane to Washington in the middle of a pandemic to “stop the steal.”

You listen to Donald Trump whine about Oprah and Mike Pence at a rally, then march up to Congress at his prompting to smash sh*t and wander around aimlessly.

You go home to hear that Biden won anyway.  All your favorite ((news)) sites with names like “Patriot News of the West” and Roman Statue avatars have your picture up. And everyone there is calling you a gay communist antifa actor.

The God-Emperor you pasted into Warhammer memes is now cucking himself going: “I’m sorry! It was a heinous act! Please, let me tweet again!”

You can’t go to the airport and catch a plane home, because the FBI has your picture and is looking for you.

It’s been 3 days.

You’re holed up in a roadside motel with a 38 year old man you met on 4Chan named “Kekeistan_9139.”

You’re pretty sure he’s high on something, but you don’t know what.
—

Day 4. 

The sun is going down, and you’re getting cold.

You’re beginning to think MAYBE Donald Trump isn’t as smart as you thought he was.

[eclipse]

Yes, I know where that came from.  Please. . .don't.

[Shoblongoo]

6 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Yes, I know where that came from.  Please. . .don't.

I’m enjoying watching them have mental breakdowns a bit too much.

not gonna lie