General US Politics

[Shoblongoo]

I don't even feel like I'm being hyperbolic anymore when I say "For the future The Left wants: See Star Trek. For the future The Right wants: See The Handmaid's Tale" 

[AnonymousSpeed]

With respect to Dobbs v. Jackson, I'm still a little surprised, even though we knew the ruling in advance. Overturning Roe v. Wade has been an explicit goal of the right for decades, but it's for that exact reason I never thought they'd actually do it. Overall, I'm overall quite pleased with the recent rulings by the Supreme Court on Bruen and Dobbs, and look forward to more positive changes in the future.

[Armchair General]

6 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Its still weird that 50 year old laws can be overturned by judges selected purely because of their political opinions, nominated by a president the population explicitly did not vote for, confirmed by a senate that the population also did not vote for and that the law they overturned was one the population actually supports. 

The American system clearly is not a functioning one

You've left out the part where they're authorized to serve for the rest of their lives.

But at any rate, the Supreme Court have made quite an few beneficial decisions; of course, nowadays it's more about one's political beliefs than actual justice.

[Jotari]

9 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Its still weird that 50 year old laws can be overturned by judges selected purely because of their political opinions, nominated by a president the population explicitly did not vote for, confirmed by a senate that the population also did not vote for and that the law they overturned was one the population actually supports. 

The American system clearly is not a functioning one. 

And apparently one judge(who's married to a literal traitor) hinted that they might scheme to go after gay marriage next. So Americans might want to be like this

 

They really should have thrown a kiss in in that scene. I'm not one to demand gay characters kiss as some kind of proof of actual representation like some people I've seen on the net; but for a marriage it's basically obligatory >.> Though if I recall they did have a renewing of vows in a later season or something.

[Sock Puppet]

On 6/24/2022 at 6:07 PM, AnonymousSpeed said:

and look forward to more positive changes in the future.

An overturning of Obergefell v. Hodges and /or Lawrence v, Texas, perhaps?

Edited June 27, 2022 by Sock Puppet
better word choice

[Shoblongoo]

 

On 6/24/2022 at 7:07 PM, AnonymousSpeed said:

With respect to Dobbs v. Jackson, I'm still a little surprised, even though we knew the ruling in advance. Overturning Roe v. Wade has been an explicit goal of the right for decades, but it's for that exact reason I never thought they'd actually do it. Overall, I'm overall quite pleased with the recent rulings by the Supreme Court on Bruen and Dobbs, and look forward to more positive changes in the future.

Well we knew they had 5 votes to overturn Roe (3 Trump appointees, Alito, and Thomas) when they shoved the Handmaid through to replace Ruth Bader Ginsburg a month before the 2020 election; thats why everyone who watches the Court was sounding the alarm bells back then.

I'm surprised it was a 6-3 opinion with Roberts in the majority though.

He had enough of a reputation as an institutionalist and a non-partisan that values the integrity of The Court over pushing a conservative agenda that I thought it was gonna be 5-4, but I guess he's showing his true colors here.  

[XRay]

1 hour ago, Shoblongoo said:

He had enough of a reputation as an institutionalist and a non-partisan that values the integrity of The Court over pushing a conservative agenda that I thought it was gonna be 5-4, but I guess he's showing his true colors here.  

He is still a conservative at heart though, and I imagine abortion is one of those issues where he is not willing to compromise on.

Well, at least I hope this will help galvanize enough voters to help Democrats keep the House. Actually taking the Senate with three more seats would be nice too, but that would probably be a pipe dream.

[Shoblongoo]

6 minutes ago, XRay said:

He is still a conservative at heart though, and I imagine abortion is one of those issues where he is not willing to compromise on.

Well, at least I hope this will help galvanize enough voters to help Democrats keep the House. Actually taking the Senate with three more seats would be nice too, but that would probably be a pipe dream.

First new poll I've seen since the decision has (D)'s leading (R)'s 48 to 41 on the generic ballot.  (the polls are a mess right now and its from the same polling group that had North Carolina +6 for Biden in 2000, so take that with an ocean's worth of salt)

The headwinds of Biden being an unpopular president presiding over record gas prices and inflation are still unfavorable.

But if there's anything that can overcome it and get Demorats to the polls: its Roe v. Wade being on the ballot in November.
 

[XRay]

2 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

The headwinds of Biden being an unpopular president presiding over record gas prices and inflation are still unfavorable.

Maybe it is just me, but every time I hear that argument, I want to shove my fellow Americans' heads down the toilet bowl and make them eat the shitty American education that they pooped out so they will have something in their stupid ass empty brain of theirs. If we are going to take away the right to vote, I want strip it from those who are uneducated and dumb enough to believe in conspiracy theories.

People do realize that IF TRUMP FUCKING DID HIS DAMNED JOB, Covid would not happened in the first place, leading to the whole supply chain issue we have now. We would not have needed to pump a ton of money into the economy to keep it afloat and help unemployed people. And we would not be seeing record high inflation. If Trump did his fucking job as the leader of the free world, we would not be experiencing all this shit. Like it or fucking not, America leads the world, and the shit example he sets have a huge influence on other countries.

And also, what the fuck do people think the alternative would be if not record high inflation? Do people really want to fucking experience the Great Recession? Do people really want the government to err on the side of doing too little and let the economy tank with no or little inflation, rather than having more people employed but with higher inflation? And why the fuck are Democrats not blaming all this on Republicans? Do they really want to claim that high inflation is their own fault instead of Republicans? This is the blame game where it is actually true and should be easy to pull off!

And high gas prices are nothing compared to the life and death situation Ukraine is experiencing. Part of me really wants to stoop to their level and just deport all those Europeans back to Europe. Just dump them in Ukraine so they get a taste of what earning freedom tastes like.

Edited June 27, 2022 by XRay

[Shoblongoo]

1 hour ago, XRay said:

Maybe it is just me, but every time I hear that argument, I want to shove my fellow Americans' heads down the toilet bowl and make them eat the shitty American education that they pooped out so they will have something in their stupid ass empty brain of theirs. If we are going to take away the right to vote, I want strip it from those who are uneducated and dumb enough to believe in conspiracy theories.

People do realize that IF TRUMP FUCKING DID HIS DAMNED JOB, Covid would not happened in the first place, leading to the whole supply chain issue we have now. We would not have needed to pump a ton of money into the economy to keep it afloat and help unemployed people. And we would not be seeing record high inflation. If Trump did his fucking job as the leader of the free world, we would not be experiencing all this shit. Like it or fucking not, America leads the world, and the shit example he sets have a huge influence on other countries.

And also, what the fuck do people think the alternative would be if not record high inflation? Do people really want to fucking experience the Great Recession? Do people really want the government to err on the side of doing too little and let the economy tank with no or little inflation, rather than having more people employed but with higher inflation? And why the fuck are Democrats not blaming all this on Republicans? Do they really want to claim that high inflation is their own fault instead of Republicans? This is the blame game where it is actually true and should be easy to pull off!

And high gas prices are nothing compared to the life and death situation Ukraine is experiencing. Part of me really wants to stoop to their level and just deport all those Europeans back to Europe. Just dump them in Ukraine so they get a taste of what earning freedom tastes like.

...the alternative to high inflation was for the federal reserve to do its job and raise interest rates when stocks were at a record high to counteract the inflationary pressure of over-saturating the money market.

Instead of keeping them near zero and artificially pumping stocks to go higher and higher and higher + treating its primary mission as fellating stockbrokers, rather than protecting currency stability. 

That was the mistake of Jerome Powell (i.e. the federal reserve chair appointed by Trump in 2018)
___

...who Biden *derped* and reappointed to another 4 year term this year so...yeahhhhhhhh...thats not great...but I feel you...

And the people putting gas prices on Biden are just being petulant. 
 

Edited June 27, 2022 by Shoblongoo

[Sunwoo]

For the record, no I don't believe the majority of Americans are capable of that level of thinking. Remember back in 2020 when schools were about to start during the height of the COVID pandemic and certain people on the TV were saying things like, "it's okay for kids to get COVID, it doesn't affect them as badly"? Even if that were true (which it clearly isn't), school doesn't exist in a void. Teachers and staff go to school too, and everyone goes back to their families who may have older or immunocompromised relatives. Clearly, some people are unable to think just ONE step past beyond the erroneous "kids don't get COVID as badly".

And don't forget how some people were trying to use "if Trump were still president, Putin wouldn't have invaded Ukraine" as a serious argument. No one who uses that argument is capable enough of realizing WHY that might be the case. Gee, maybe Putin wouldn't have had to invade Ukraine when he had the American president as a puppet giving him everything he wants already. Not to mention how certain people are trying to spin all the stuff going on with COVID even now on Biden, as if pandemics go away easily when certain people don't want to do their part to help stop it.

The majority of people are incapable of critical thinking, for whatever reason (whether it be cultural, educational fails, personality, or some other thing). And the sooner people who are capable of seeing beyond their face realize this, the sooner you can come up with a better strategy of getting people to vote for their own self-interests instead of just culture war scare tactics.

[XRay]

2 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

...the alternative to high inflation was for the federal reserve to do its job and raise interest rates when stocks were at a record high to counteract the inflationary pressure of over-saturating the money market.

Instead of keeping them near zero and artificially pumping stocks to go higher and higher and higher + treating its primary mission as fellating stockbrokers, rather than protecting currency stability. 

That was the mistake of Jerome Powell (i.e. the federal reserve chair appointed by Trump in 2018)

I would give the Fed the benefit of the doubt that they want to keep interest rates low ever since COVID restrictions are slowly being lifted, so they are not pushing the brakes too hard on the economy and try to have more people employed. African American unemployment rate is still much higher than the national average.

[Armchair General]

3 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

Remember back in 2020 when schools were about to start during the height of the COVID pandemic and certain people on the TV were saying things like, "it's okay for kids to get COVID, it doesn't affect them as badly"? Even if that were true (which it clearly isn't), school doesn't exist in a void. Teachers and staff go to school too, and everyone goes back to their families who may have older or immunocompromised relatives. Clearly, some people are unable to think just ONE step past beyond the erroneous "kids don't get COVID as badly

Oh, I remember that one. Apparently, people being hospitalized to the point where it became nearly impossible for them to have an vacant bed for anything else wasn't as big enough of an hint for them. Or how it's okay to walk around without an mask, despite the fact that people were wearing them during previous pandemics.

I still think that we've should have held off on reopening schools, though.

[whase]

12 hours ago, XRay said:

Like it or fucking not, America leads the world, and the shit example he sets have a huge influence on other countries.

What makes you think "America leads the world"? As I see it, America is setting a pretty bad example.

9 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

Remember back in 2020 when schools were about to start during the height of the COVID pandemic and certain people on the TV were saying things like, "it's okay for kids to get COVID, it doesn't affect them as badly"? Even if that were true (which it clearly isn't), school doesn't exist in a void.

I'm pretty sure it was proven that children get symptoms far less worse than older people from getting Covid, generally speaking. That's not to say that some kids can't get it bad, and the rest of your point is still very valid.

[XRay]

1 hour ago, whase said:

What makes you think "America leads the world"? As I see it, America is setting a pretty bad example.

Because the world is following our bad example. If Trump was not a complete dipshit, leaders through out the world would crack down on COVID more to contain it. There would be a better unified global response. Remember the swine flu and ebola during the Obama years? Not really? Good, because Obama did not drop the ball as hard as Trump did. Obama did make some mistakes, but he quickly corrected it and did not dig himself a deeper hole. I am not sure what the hell Trump is thinking, but he is just an absolute fucking dumbass to make masks a political statement.

And the world still turns to America looking for guidance when major global crisis hits. Ukraine and COVID are just the latest examples.

[whase]

40 minutes ago, XRay said:

Because the world is following our bad example. If Trump was not a complete dipshit, leaders through out the world would crack down on COVID more to contain it. There would be a better unified global response. Remember the swine flu and ebola during the Obama years? Not really? Good, because Obama did not drop the ball as hard as Trump did. Obama did make some mistakes, but he quickly corrected it and did not dig himself a deeper hole. I am not sure what the hell Trump is thinking, but he is just an absolute fucking dumbass to make masks a political statement.

And the world still turns to America looking for guidance when major global crisis hits. Ukraine and COVID are just the latest examples.

I'm pretty sure our politicians here in the Netherlands were making terrible decisions on covid before America was. Did the world turn to America for guidance on Covid? I'm guessing Europe wasn't informed on that. A lot of countries worked on studies into the virus, and multiple countries developed vaccines, among which the Netherlands. 

I'm sure America is a big player on global affairs, but to say it leads the world is taking it a step too far IMO.

Actually, now that I think about this some more, what exactly do you mean by "the world"? I haven't looked too much into world politics, but I have trouble seeing Asia and Africa "looking at America for guidance". Nor can I see South America, though my knowledge on that part of the world I admit is very limited.

[XRay]

56 minutes ago, whase said:

I'm pretty sure our politicians here in the Netherlands were making terrible decisions on covid before America was. Did the world turn to America for guidance on Covid? I'm guessing Europe wasn't informed on that. A lot of countries worked on studies into the virus, and multiple countries developed vaccines, among which the Netherlands. 

I'm sure America is a big player on global affairs, but to say it leads the world is taking it a step too far IMO.

Actually, now that I think about this some more, what exactly do you mean by "the world"? I haven't looked too much into world politics, but I have trouble seeing Asia and Africa "looking at America for guidance". Nor can I see South America, though my knowledge on that part of the world I admit is very limited.

America did not get its act together, and Europe did not step up either. My point was that if America got its shit together, Europe's response would have been much more coordinated. Leadership in Phillippines and Brazil would not follow America's lead jerking each other off either on masks and science denial. America is in a unique position to lead a global coordinated response to COVID and it did not do so because there was an orange turd in the White House clowning about as a president. No other country in the world even comes close to America's capacity to lead. I really wanted Europe to lead, but its leaders were all over the place and their coordination was plain garbage. Russia was in no position to lead and it was in denial about the severity. China tried to lead, but its vaccine is shit and Africa and South America only turned to them for help because some vaccine is better than no vaccine, and America and Europe were hogging vaccines for dumbass reasons.

Compared to the COVID response, the response to Russia's invasion is so much better and more coordinated. As much as I want Europe to take care of Ukraine by itself so America can focus on the Chinese threat in the Asia, Europe clearly is not up to the task. France and particularly Germany are extremely slow to respond; the Brits would probably be in a much better position to whip the former two into action if the Brits did not lost their minds with Brexit; Poland and Eastern Europe got their act together but they lack the resources wealthier neighbors to their west have. Similarly in Asia, unless you are North Korea or Cambodia, no one wants China to lead. Even Vietnam is keeping its distance from China.

And with the shit that the Republican Supreme Court pulled a few days ago kicking abortion out of federal jurisdiction, anti-abortion proponents in other countries might push back against abortion legalization.

[whase]

19 minutes ago, XRay said:

America is in a unique position to lead a global coordinated response to COVID

While I still really think you're overestimating America's importance, I do agree with just about every other thing you're saying. So let's leave it at that and agree to disagree on that one point.

[Shoblongoo]

17 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

For the record, no I don't believe the majority of Americans are capable of that level of thinking.

Agreed, sadly.
 

17 hours ago, XRay said:

I would give the Fed the benefit of the doubt 

I'd give them nothing beyond a base assumption: "its a corporate oligarchy, and their first impulse is to serve the overclass. Every time."

A lot of investment capitalists made a LOT of money off the feds single-mindedly focusing on inflating stock values, while not noticing or not caring what was happening to currency valuation and consumer pricing in the real economy. 
 

6 hours ago, XRay said:

the world is following our bad example. 

the world still turns to America looking for guidance when major global crisis hits. 

...i think its less that the world is following our bad example...

And moreso that other countries are having the same problems we're having with reactionary conservatives getting angsty about the social changes of recent decades. Getting more and more extreme in their politics. And getting more and more mainstream in their ability to influence politics and enact their agenda, as people looking at compounding crisis after compounding crisis after compounding crisis in recent years become increasingly dissatisfied with the performance of established mainstream political parties in addressing the pressing issues of the day.

Just to a lesser extent.

The problem is of course more pronounced in America. As we're a more baseline religious/conservative country to begin with, and our system of national elections has always skewed towards over-representing conservative countryside populations + under-representing more diverse and progressive urban ones. 

So where other countries have been able to a better job doing things like say--implementing COVID policies, over the objections of religious nutjobs who think that modern medicine is The Devil and the entire pandemic was a communist conspiracy to turn followers of God into followers of The State.

Recent elections here have empowered those elements in America to just go buckwild. And they now have an entire major political party beholden to them.  
___

Like the Philippines and Brazil weren't "following our lead" there...Duterte and Bolsonaro just so happen to be shitters cut from the same political cloth as Trump... 

Rightwing authoritarians the world over exhibit the same leadership traits + make the same bad policy choices. 

Edited June 28, 2022 by Shoblongoo

[Etrurian emperor]

On 6/27/2022 at 8:04 PM, XRay said:

People do realize that IF TRUMP FUCKING DID HIS DAMNED JOB, Covid would not happened in the first place, leading to the whole supply chain issue we have now.

I think that's an oversimplification. Trump badly mishandled Covid but it didn't happen because of Trump, and it would have happened regardless of him. Even countries with decent leaders who knew what they were doing had a hard time tackling covid.

Trump can certainly blamed for exacerbating the damage Covid well beyond what it should have been, but he's not the direct cause of it.

11 hours ago, XRay said:

Because the world is following our bad example. If Trump was not a complete dipshit, leaders through out the world would crack down on COVID more to contain it.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I recall Covid arriving relatively late in the states. I still remember Trump dismissing it by the time the bodies were already piling up here in Europe. So when it hit in the US most leaders already should have some policies ideas. Also Trump was widely disliked and not at all respected by any of his global peers so no one except freaks like Bolsonaro would directly take after him.

I think that in general Trump is a latecomer to a lot of terrible trends. The rest of the world isn't influenced by the US, but the US is influenced by the rest of the world. When Trump's political dreams were still in diapers Europe already had all sorts of wacky demagogues. Democracies being slowly dismantled is a process many other countries had to suffer through long before the Republican party became so radicalized.  I think its more that US politicians with bad intentions look at the terrible trend abroad and try to bring them to the US.

[Sunwoo]

Yeah, I don't think any world leader can be blamed for COVID existing. Not even Xi (although if he'd been more transparent about what was going on maybe things wouldn't have gotten out nearly as bad but I digress). But a lot of the things that did happen in the U.S. specifically after it already showed up here can be blamed on Trump. For example, most of the stuff in the red states.

If Trump decided to be a fucking adult and said that COVID was a big deal and we should take it seriously, do you think all the red state governors would've been riding the "COVID is just a flu" train? I highly doubt it. The loonier Republicans, while Trump was in power, followed his lead for the most part because they wanted Trump's base to vote for them too and had to look like loyal toadies, screw the science. Trump also dropped the ball in sending supplies to the states whose governors did take the pandemic seriously, too, and that wasn't helpful at all.

Americans in general probably saw all the terrible leaders that existed in history and other parts of the world, and thought "wow, this could never happen in our country". And then it happened because a lot of people didn't know what they were looking for. The American citizenry, in general, are kind of arrogant? A lot of Americans don't seem to know or care what goes on in the rest of the world? I think too many of us were content to sit on our laurels and be like "America is the best country EVUR" and change nothing because we're the best, why should we change? If we really want to be better, this is the first line of thought we need to dismantle. We need to look at the other countries in the world and see what they're doing better than us and what things like fascism look like so we know what to fight on our own shores.

[Jotari]

10 hours ago, XRay said:

America did not get its act together, and Europe did not step up either. My point was that if America got its shit together, Europe's response would have been much more coordinated. Leadership in Phillippines and Brazil would not follow America's lead jerking each other off either on masks and science denial. America is in a unique position to lead a global coordinated response to COVID and it did not do so because there was an orange turd in the White House clowning about as a president. No other country in the world even comes close to America's capacity to lead. I really wanted Europe to lead, but its leaders were all over the place and their coordination was plain garbage. Russia was in no position to lead and it was in denial about the severity. China tried to lead, but its vaccine is shit and Africa and South America only turned to them for help because some vaccine is better than no vaccine, and America and Europe were hogging vaccines for dumbass reasons.

Compared to the COVID response, the response to Russia's invasion is so much better and more coordinated. As much as I want Europe to take care of Ukraine by itself so America can focus on the Chinese threat in the Asia, Europe clearly is not up to the task. France and particularly Germany are extremely slow to respond; the Brits would probably be in a much better position to whip the former two into action if the Brits did not lost their minds with Brexit; Poland and Eastern Europe got their act together but they lack the resources wealthier neighbors to their west have. Similarly in Asia, unless you are North Korea or Cambodia, no one wants China to lead. Even Vietnam is keeping its distance from China.

And with the shit that the Republican Supreme Court pulled a few days ago kicking abortion out of federal jurisdiction, anti-abortion proponents in other countries might push back against abortion legalization.

Duterte was elected before Trump was, and Filipinos knew exactly what they were getting into with him, he didn't exactly hide his personality in his earlier political career. And Filipinos by and large adored him, and have now elected his daughter and the son of the man who seized military control of the country in the 70s. That is not on Trump. I think you underestimate the capability of other countries to make independent decisions, both positive and negative. The US leads the world only in the sense that it can involve itself in the affairs of any nation it wants and is beyond reproach for any missteps it makes. The rest of the world is not sitting around just waiting to emulate the decisions of Washington. Otherwise we'd be seeing much looser gun control laws world wide (and a higher legalization of marijuana, which most people seem to actually want but governments are too slow moving to adapt).

Edited June 28, 2022 by Jotari

[Shoblongoo]

PoV: its a slow news day, and FOX needs to cover anything but the 1/6 Hearings

[Armchair General]

On 6/28/2022 at 2:31 AM, XRay said:

Because the world is following our bad example. If Trump was not a complete dipshit, leaders through out the world would crack down on COVID more to contain it. There would be a better unified global response.

Exactly why is the rest of the world beholden to follow the trends that America sets?

[Armchair General]

22 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but I recall Covid arriving relatively late in the states

It was spreading to either Japan or Korea, first. As for where we fit into the timeline, it's hard to say; but it kind of took an while for it to become an full-scale pandemic.

 

4 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

PoV: its a slow news day, and FOX needs to cover anything but the 1/6 Hearings

That's just fucking sad, man.

21 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

Americans in general probably saw all the terrible leaders that existed in history and other parts of the world, and thought "wow, this could never happen in our country".

To be fair, an minority of those leaders were actually elected.

21 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

And then it happened because a lot of people didn't know what they were looking for.

Well, it's kind of impossible to predict exactly what each political candidate would do. I knew Trump was an bit of an nutcase, put I wasn't really expecting an Jan 6th.

 

22 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

The American citizenry, in general, are kind of arrogant?

While you aren't wrong, just know that we're not the only ones who are like this.

 

22 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

A lot of Americans don't seem to know or care what goes on in the rest of the world?

It's kind of hard to care about the world when you have your own problems that immediately affects you. I'm sorry, but outside of voting and participating in the occasional protest; there's really nothing that the average person can do.

22 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

I think too many of us were content to sit on our laurels and be like "America is the best country EVUR" and change nothing because we're the best, why should we change?

This is true in the sense that something that barely works shouldn't be touched on the off-chance that you'll break it. But...

22 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

We need to look at the other countries in the world and see what they're doing better than us and what things like fascism look like so we know what to fight on our own shores

It's kind of hard to come up with an textbook definition of fascism since it comes in an variety of flavors and trying to stamp it out through force is asking for someone to get shot. Plus, these kind of groups don't exactly have an foot in the door if we're ignoring the people who are already in office...Except for Trump, obviously.