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Poll  

269 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you vote a third party?

    • Yes
      88
    • No
      109
    • Maybe
      72
  2. 2. Are you content with the results of the election?

    • Yes
      49
    • No
      108
    • Indifferent
      41


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6 hours ago, Mortarion said:

And let's not forget the cult of personality that are just gonna support him no matter what he does and attribute everything he does to playing Paradox-Billards-Vostroyan-Roulette-Fourth Dimensional-Hypercube-Chess-Strip Poker.

Hey now--narcissism and excessive pride is the work of Slaaneshi degenerates. Don't you go blaming this mess on Tzeentch.

ON TOPIC: I think right wing media is more of an echo chamber that circle-jerks the guys who are already in bed with Trump than a persuasive outlet. 

Like the guys tuning into Limbaugh and Hannity are the guys already of a mind that liberals are cancer, everything bad about Trump is liberal propaganda, and the fact that there's so many negative stories about him is proof he's making America great again because "the liberals" wouldn't be making up so many bad stories about the guy if he wasn't threatening their evil liberal plans to take away your jobs and raise your taxes and give the country over to immigrants and welfare babies.

They just tune in to hear their views regurgitated back to them by someone whose supposed to be so smart and insightful and in-the-know that they get paid millions of dollars for their political commentary.  Its a form of mental masturbation. 

But they're not convincing people not already in their camp to cross-over. 
 

Edited by Shoblongoo

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8 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

Hey now--narcissism and excessive pride is the work of Slaaneshi degenerates. Don't you go blaming this mess on Tzeentch.

Have you seen his supporters? If they aren't Nurgle worshipers, I'll take an antibiotic bath...

8 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

ON TOPIC: I think right wing media is more of an echo chamber that circle-jerks the guys who are already in bed with Trump than a persuasive outlet. 

Like the guys tuning into Limbaugh and Hannity are the guys already of a mind that liberals are cancer, everything bad about Trump is liberal propaganda, and the fact that there's so many negative stories about him is proof he's making America great again because "the liberals" wouldn't be making up so many bad stories about the guy if he wasn't threatening their evil liberal plans to take away your jobs and raise your taxes and give the country over to immigrants and welfare babies.

They just tune in to hear their views regurgitated back to them by someone whose supposed to be so smart and insightful and in-the-know that they get paid millions of dollars for their political commentary.  Its a form of mental masturbation. 

But they're not convincing people not already in their camp to cross-over. 
 

It doesn't have to be persuasive anymore. The target communities have believed that Fox News and the various podcasts are the only truthful news outlets and that everything else is filthy Kosher librul lies for years. They don't have to be anything more than propaganda reinforcing the illusion.

They don't have to convince people to cross over either. The only purpose of them is to hold onto the rural and evangelical communities, who I think it's fair to say is the only demographic keeping the GOP relevant. It's a self-perpetuating thing to, the people who thing Fox News are the only trustworthy news sources are going to stay in-line with the community consensus and the children they have are going to grow up surrounded by this bullshit.

Oh, and since I'm obligated to say it every time, #FuckMurdoch.

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12 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

Like the guys tuning into Limbaugh and Hannity are the guys already of a mind that liberals are cancer, everything bad about Trump is liberal propaganda, and the fact that there's so many negative stories about him is proof he's making America great again because "the liberals" wouldn't be making up so many bad stories about the guy if he wasn't threatening their evil liberal plans to take away your jobs and raise your taxes and give the country over to immigrants and welfare babies.

They just tune in to hear their views regurgitated back to them by someone whose supposed to be so smart and insightful and in-the-know that they get paid millions of dollars for their political commentary.  Its a form of mental masturbation. 

But they're not convincing people not already in their camp to cross-over. 
 

I don't think it's liberal propaganda. The bad things about Trump are obvious to anyone with a brain, and they go far beyond any massaging of racist groups or politically incorrect tweets. To give you an example, I would not trust any person with an entrepeneurial background like Trump's, as he's far more likely to treat running the country as an enterprise rather than a state. When it comes to my rights as a citizen, I'd rather not let my country be run by someone whose first consideration when evaluating anything will be its cost to the state. His complete political ineptitude is just the icing on the cake.

But, like I said countless times in this thread, what made Trump rise to glory was the increasing radicalism in American politics as well as the fact Hillary Clinton was a horribly weak candidate. The former is not only the white supremacist and neonazi groups' fault... The brand of leftist radicalism that scores major points in NY and LA has the complete opposite effect in other parts of the country, and the Democrats made the fatal mistake of underestimating this rebound effect. In fact, they still do, which makes me doubt they'll be able to capitalize on Trump's endless blunders, as the Republicans might not let Trump run for president again anyway.

Edited by Skynstein

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On 8/31/2017 at 2:34 AM, Shoblongoo said:

The 35% still supporting Trump at this point are the single-issue voters who think [insert Republican nightmare-fuel here] is the single biggest threat to the country, and will ignore everything else about the man to support Him so long as he crudely and bombastically speaks to their fears on the issue in ways that other politicians are not quite cynical or shameless enough to speak. Immigration and the boogeyman of "globalism" is still the big hook, by the look of it. We'll see what happens if he actually tries to force a government shutdown to fund that wall Mexico was supposed to "pay" for.

Dude, you gotta stop with the generalizations.

I live with someone who thinks Trump is doing a good job.  He can't name why, though.

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6 hours ago, eclipse said:

I live with someone who thinks Trump is doing a good job.  He can't name why, though.

Where do they get there news from? If it's a right-wing news source, odds are that they're getting a really biased account of things.

EDIT: It never ends

Edited by Mortarion

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19 hours ago, eclipse said:

Dude, you gotta stop with the generalizations.

I live with someone who thinks Trump is doing a good job.  He can't name why though.

...my boss is a Trump supporter. My dad is a Trump supporter. My uncle is a Trump supporter. All concede and acknowledge that Trump is a terrible person and that his conduct in office is a national embarrassment. Pressed why they continue to support him, they all say something to the effect of well I DO agree that we need to be tougher on illegal immigrants and respect our police and stop letting these black lives matter thugs loot and riot. And why does half my paycheck go to the inner cities to pay for people  who want to drop out of school, get pregnant, and do drugs? That's what's wrong with this country. I work so hard for my money and the government doesn't care about me; they only care about people who are looking for a handout. "I support Donald Trump because he's right on the issues that matter most to me and all that other stuff just isn't as important." Coax a more complete answer out of your roommate and I suspect you'll hear something to this effect. I also suspect you'll find your roommate has some rather--colorful--views on major issues.

Edited by Shoblongoo

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17 hours ago, Mortarion said:

Where do they get there news from? If it's a right-wing news source, odds are that they're getting a really biased account of things.

EDIT: It never ends

Honestly? It wouldn't matter.  This is the same winner of a person that boos Obama's name.

1 hour ago, Shoblongoo said:

...my boss is a Trump supporter. My dad is a Trump supporter. My uncle is a Trump supporter. All concede and acknowledge that Trump is a terrible person and that his conduct in office is a national embarrassment. Pressed why they continue to support him, they all say something to the effect of well I DO agree that we need to be tougher on illegal immigrants and respect our police and stop letting these black lives matter thugs loot and riot. And why does half my paycheck go to the inner cities to pay for people  who want to drop out of school, get pregnant, and do drugs? That's what's wrong with this country. I work so hard for my money and the government doesn't care about me; they only care about people who are looking for a handout. "I support Donald Trump because he's right on the issues that matter most to me and all that other stuff just isn't as important." Coax a more complete answer out of your roommate and I suspect you'll hear something to this effect. I also suspect you'll find your roommate has some rather--colorful--views on major issues.

Mine doesn't give a shit.  Trump could molest a kid, and this guy would still think that Trump is the best thing ever.

Yes, I asked him why.  My response was "because".

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i don't really doubt that a lot of people who support trump are at ease with contradiction. politics is a sport where no-one wants to admit they were wrong. i wouldn't really be surprised if Trump ends up being another George W Bush in that you will struggle to find people who say they support him in 2007, 2008 - many also refusing to say they ever supported him even though they did.

here was an interesting video from a focus group of trump voters from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania being one of the key states that decided the election

Edited by Tryhard

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4 hours ago, eclipse said:

Honestly? It wouldn't matter.  This is the same winner of a person that boos Obama's name.

So...Fox News, Breitbart, /pol/, and maybe American Renaissance. Gotcha. 

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8 hours ago, eclipse said:

Honestly? It wouldn't matter.  This is the same winner of a person that boos Obama's name.

Mine doesn't give a shit.  Trump could molest a kid, and this guy would still think that Trump is the best thing ever.

Yes, I asked him why.  My response was "because".

Behind the curt "because" is an unspoken "for reasons I'm not entirely comfortable discussing."

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16 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

Behind the curt "because" is an unspoken "for reasons I'm not entirely comfortable discussing."

Please tell me how you know this guy better than me.

Otherwise, please keep comments like this to yourself.

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28 minutes ago, Dandee Leone said:

So what are Trump's impeachment chances looking like?

Sadly, still very low. As long as the Congress is Republican, this Dadatopia will continue. That's what the current government is: absurd. Not insane, not stupid, absurd.

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To everyone wishing for impeachment, I hope you realize the impeachment is supposed to be the exception of the exception in the presidential system. Yes, in my country it happened as recently as last year, and it was perfectly legal, but it was only possible because the norms detailing the cases for impeachment are broader than desirable in such a system.

If you want to remove your head of government at will, perhaps it's time to change to a parliamentary system like every healthy democracy in the world. Either that, or push for laws implementing recall of an executive term. Otherwise, forcing the existence of a reason to impeach a president legitimately elected by popular vote (until evidence to the contrary, that is) is not a very ethical thing to do. The rules apply to everyone, like it or not, and they are not subject to change whenever we lose the election.

The US were the perfect country for someone like Trump to emerge victorious in an election. Two-party system, single-round election, increasing political radicalism. Americans take pride in their system but it simply isn't able to prevent extremists from reaching positions of power the way European systems can. Just look at what happened in France (which employs a mixed presidential and parliamentary system), MLP went to the second round and, once there, she got crushed, because everyone else voted against her and for the other candidate. With her platform, I could bet serious cash in the possibility she'll never be elected, ever.

With Trump's election, the flaws in the American political system became evident to the whole world. Insisting the system is immaculate despite its obvious shortcomings is not only an act of ignorance, but also of arrogance.

Edited by Skynstein

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10 hours ago, Skynstein said:

(until evidence to the contrary, that is)  

...I mean with what's public knowledge at this point, there's enough to institute articles of impeachment for obstruction of justice (i.e. the same grounds for impeachment brought against Nixon). What's missing is the political will from a Republican controlled Congress, not the evidence of an impeachable offense. And that's without even speculating on what may or may not come out in the Mueller investigation concerning money laundering, racketeering, and ties to Russia.

Edited by Shoblongoo

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Why wouldn't the Republicans impeach Trump? If Trump is impeached, Pence becomes president. Compared to Trump, the vice president is a lot more moderate and a lot less controversial, and I think a lot of Republicans and Democrats would be more comfortable with him in office.

I think the reason Trump is still in office is because he's still popular with a lot of people. He did win the election, after all. A lot of congressmen would probably rather wait for him to do something extremely stupid that nobody is in favor of to impeach him than have to explain to their constituents why they ousted the man that the people put in office.

 

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3 hours ago, SullyMcGully said:

Why wouldn't the Republicans impeach Trump? 

 

You sorta answered your own question there; House Republicans have to run for reelection in heavily Republican districts, and they're terrified that any who are seen as coming out too strongly against Trump will be primaried out of office by more partisanly inclined Republican challengers. There are no profiles in courage among House Leadership. You will not see them turn on Trump unless their voters turn on Trump, and they perceive no political cost in so doing.

Edited by Shoblongoo

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Ending DACA is especial bullshit; I can't imagine what it must be like to be forced back to a country you don't remember and whose language you don't speak. It also has zero to do with criminality since you require a perfect, blemish-free record to benefit from DACA.

 

 

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9 hours ago, SullyMcGully said:

Why wouldn't the Republicans impeach Trump? If Trump is impeached, Pence becomes president. Compared to Trump, the vice president is a lot more moderate and a lot less controversial, and I think a lot of Republicans and Democrats would be more comfortable with him in office.

I think the reason Trump is still in office is because he's still popular with a lot of people. He did win the election, after all. A lot of congressmen would probably rather wait for him to do something extremely stupid that nobody is in favor of to impeach him than have to explain to their constituents why they ousted the man that the people put in office.

The second half of your post is literally the answer. Trump still has a 70-ish% approval relating with conservative voters last time I checked, so why impeach him? Because democrat and independent voters don't like him? The 70% who still support Trump are the only people who's opinions the GOP care about because they're the people who vote for them. If something comes out of the Mueller investigation that causes his approval to dip below 50% with Republican voters, then we might see something happen but until them I'm not expecting anything other than the odd Congressmen voicing 'concern' over Trump's actions and policies.

EDIT: You could do an X-Ray of the entire GOP and be lucky to find a single spine shared between them.

Edited by Mortarion

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2 hours ago, Mortarion said:

The second half of your post is literally the answer. Trump still has a 70-ish% approval relating with conservative voters last time I checked, so why impeach him? Because democrat and independent voters don't like him? The 70% who still support Trump are the only people who's opinions the GOP care about because they're the people who vote for them. If something comes out of the Mueller investigation that causes his approval to dip below 50% with Republican voters, then we might see something happen but until them I'm not expecting anything other than the odd Congressmen voicing 'concern' over Trump's actions and policies.

Does this count as concern?

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10 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Yes. Sorry if it wasn't clear enough, but the 'concern' was less to do with doubting the authenticity of their objection and more so the follow-up i.e. they're concerned, but what are they going to do about it?

Besides, isn't that guy a Democrat? I'm referring to the GOP specifically.

Edited by Mortarion

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3 minutes ago, Mortarion said:

Yes. Sorry if it wasn't clear enough, but the 'concern' was less to do with doubting the authenticity of their objection and more so the follow-up i.e. they're concerned, but what are they going to do about it?

Besides, isn't that guy a Democrat? I'm referring to the GOP specifically.

May be a democrat, but IMO it's a pretty big thing when a senator says that about a president.  Said move was pretty well-received here, BTW.

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9 minutes ago, eclipse said:

May be a democrat, but IMO it's a pretty big thing when a senator says that about a president.  Said move was pretty well-received here, BTW.

Yeah, pretty ballsy move by him.

Regardless, the overall point I was trying to make was that;

a) Trump, for a wide variety of reasons, still has a good approval rating amongst the Republican base, at least if I recall correctly.

b) Until he does something even more fucked up or Mueller discovers something that causes his approval to drop with the Republican base, the GOP will do nothing because they have no reason to.

c) Despite this, GOP politicians have often expressed concern and disapproval over some of Trump's actions. This is demonstrative that either they don't care about what he does that much, or that they do care about it passionately but are selling out there morals regardless.

d) The GOP are spineless and inconsistent with their positions, as seen through Paul Ryan's recent statements.

Edited by Mortarion

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