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313 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you vote a third party?

    • Yes
      100
    • No
      130
    • Maybe
      83
  2. 2. Are you content with the results of the election?

    • Yes
      59
    • No
      133
    • Indifferent
      50


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6 minutes ago, Tryhard said:

There is a difference between right wing and authoritarian. You can get more authoritarian than the GOP, fascists being an example. At the same time, they are very authoritarian and like big government despite what they claim, poking into people's private lives especially regarding abortion and gay marriage, and aren't even all that committed to traditionally fiscal conservative values considering they love neo-conservatism, massive military funding, corporate write-offs, and a global presence. That said, they pretty much apply to that heavy "individuals have to do everything" mentality which most modern first world countries have left behind. Some Republicans are worse than others, but I don't think you can say that they like immigrants or foreign people.

I don't understand how anyone can think the GOP makes too many compromises. They shut down the government over Obamacare. They don't agree with Democrats over anything except in regards to terrible foreign policy and favoring corporations heavily. What, in your mind, is more right wing than the GOP more so than what they already do?

On that topic, liberalism has been a catch all term for opposition to conservatism, when it really isn't. It's opposed to authoritarianism, in the same way libertarians are. Most liberals in the US are fairly centrist, and the scale is so fucked that while Americans think the Democrat and Republican dichotomy is a left vs right one, pick anywhere else in the world and most of them know the US is skewed so heavy to the right with the Democrats being centrists at best, more accurately center-right and the GOP being a far-right party. Progressives are the real opposing element to conservatism, in the way that while conservatives feel they need to preserve what is good, progressives want to fix what is bad. That's why I find it so funny when Republicans in the US complain and bemoan about "the left", obviously referring to Democrats. Most of them fucking aren't.

I'll take your correction for my terminology. When I said "far right" I meant "radically conservative". I grew up with right and left meaning conservative and liberal, which as I understand is a fairly common point of view in America as many journalists and political commentators on both sides of the political aisle use that as well. 

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5 hours ago, Skynstein said:

Even the far-left in the US are not communists, because they love the goodies of capitalism. But they do behave much the same way Marxist groups all over the world do. Their brand of socialism is a result of people stuffing Marxism where it shouldn't have been.

Like when?

5 hours ago, Skynstein said:

Class struggle is a concept of economics, then they apply to race, gender, sexual orientation, sexual identification, you name it.

Explain this.

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4 hours ago, SullyMcGully said:

I'll take your correction for my terminology. When I said "far right" I meant "radically conservative". I grew up with right and left meaning conservative and liberal, which as I understand is a fairly common point of view in America as many journalists and political commentators on both sides of the political aisle use that as well. 

Eh, it wasn't really you using it as far as I could see. It's just I've seen that sentiment echoed a lot where it seems as though in America the whole concept of leftist, liberalism, conservatism, socialism, communism, fascism, etc, has been muddled and people use these political terms really incorrectly.

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On 9/7/2017 at 11:50 AM, SullyMcGully said:

You know, it gets a lot more far right that the GOP. 

 

...it also gets a lot more far left then the Democrats. There are people who think Democrats sold out their progressive values and have become too beholden to entrenched interests to fight for progressive reforms--that they should be pushing hard for universal healthcare, living wage laws, an end to the war on drugs, LGBT protections under federal antidiscrimination law, and looser immigration laws allowing for easier legal entry to the United States + retroactive forgiveness for unlawful entrants. Most Americans, however, are neither to the right of the Republicans or to the left the Democrats, but somewhere in between. And so the need to appeal to the center defines the metes and bounds of the parties.

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On 07/09/2017 at 8:23 PM, Mortarion said:

Like when?

Explain this.

I was clear enough. Piece things together and you'll understand it.

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42 minutes ago, Skynstein said:

I was clear enough. Piece things together and you'll understand it.

No you weren't. You just said 'they do this' without any elaboration.

You didn't give an example of how people are 'stuffing Marxism where they shouldn't', nor did you explain why the factors you listed are irrelevant. You can't say 'piece it together' when you haven't given me anything to work with other than generalisations and empty statements, which is exactly what you were complaining about.

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On 9/7/2017 at 1:48 PM, Skynstein said:

And to @Lord Raven:Anyway, speaking of left in America is indeed difficult because the Democratic party isn't exactly left, they try "lefty" things but they're tame, as during the Cold War there was a literal effort to eliminate the left from the country. America is, thus, pretty much its own thing, with the Republicans being right-wing "proper" and the Democrats more of a center party with very slight leftist connotations. But the leftist and far-leftist vote Democrat because the Democrats found it could get them some extra votes if they catered to these people, not unlike Trump massaging far-right extremists and all the filth that comes with them.Even the far-left in the US are not communists, because they love the goodies of capitalism. But they do behave much the same way Marxist groups all over the world do. Their brand of socialism is a result of people stuffing Marxism where it shouldn't have been. Class struggle is a concept of economics, then they apply to race, gender, sexual orientation, sexual identification, you name it. The result is disastrous because Marx wasn't exactly a democrat, he was skeptical of democracy, otherwise he wouldn't have suggested revolution and dictatorship of the proletariat as means to erase capitalist mentality from society. I actually find Marx's economic theory very interesting, if outdated, and I don't like to see right-wingers blame him for misuse of his theory by people born more than 100 years after his death.

as a marxist, this post is like the most incoherent thing i've ever read anywhere

socialism only recently stopped being a toxic word in america because of sanders, but marxism/communism hasn't been a remotely significant component of the left since like the black panthers in the 70s.  

Edited by Radiant head

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39 minutes ago, eclipse said:

. . .er, can you tone it down?

Why? They obviously don't care about killing people with this 'reform'.

In all seriousness, yeah, I can. I haven't had the best week so the news is getting to me a bit more than usual is all.

On another note, I thought this was a decent read, although the title is a bit...eh.

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2 hours ago, Mortarion said:

I prefer to believe lots of Trump supporters are averagely decent people that are just easy to set off due to how often their kids, colleagues, and news programs insinuate that they must be a racist for having voted for him. Because even if you are racist, nobody is okay with being called that. Still, I have to admit 100% of the six Trump supporters I know personally have went out of their way to say offensive things about non-whites in the months leading up to and since the election. They're also all in their 60s and they wholly believe an attack on Trump is an attack on them. And since 90% of news of the week somehow reflects back on Trump or his policies, it's a chore to carry any sort of conversation. 

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On 7/22/2015 at 7:03 AM, blah the Prussian said:

Seriously? Trump sounds like a guy who alternate histories will be written about in 2050.

On 7/22/2015 at 9:47 AM, libtard snowflake said:

Trump needs Kanye on his ticket so he could reach out to disenfranchised youth. Thier personalities complement each other too.

But on a serious note I think Trump and his aides are playing the public like an instrument. I refuse to believe a grown man like him would intentionally make comments like that. He's a celebrity firstly, so I think he would know that inflammatory comments generate publicity, and for a celebrity like him, any publicity is good publicity. This is shown by his poll ratings. But delegates do the nominations, and though the race has only begun he probably have pissed them off enough to dash all hope of nomination. He probably won't end his streak so he will continue to piss them off further reducing the possibility of him being nominated.

On 7/24/2015 at 8:20 AM, blah the Prussian said:

Whatever happens, I'm casting my vote for the Monarchist Party.XD

In all seriousness, I hope Trump wins the Republican nomination. He's completely unelectable.

You know, sometimes I wonder if we're living in an alternate history too. These past two years sure played out differently than I had ever thought they would.

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5 hours ago, SullyMcGully said:

You know, sometimes I wonder if we're living in an alternate history too. These past two years sure played out differently than I had ever thought they would.

The group of people who will objectively benefit from a Trump Presidency are the historians, so good for me, I guess.

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15 hours ago, Mortarion said:

Not really

https://www.lawfareblog.com/how-much-do-americans-actually-care-about-russia-investigation

Seems like half the country cares and half the country doesn't.  If you're to believe his approval ratings are as low as they say, which I don't, then even many of his critics don't care.  I can honestly say if I was a huge trump critic I would not be pushing Russia because I think there's not a lot of meat in that scenario.  The half that does is clearly the half that wishes they got another president, it's expected for them to bandwagon on Russia as long as they can.  The fact is, my side (conservatives) don't really care anymore.  To us, if something serious was going on something would have happened other than liberal journalists hyping up a big story everytime something happens.  Same thing happened with his tax reforms - people were saying everyone cared but we really don't.

 

In other news, President Trump delivered a speech to the UN.  

It's still early, but from what I've heard so far it received at least some praise from both sides.  The biggest things were him defining what "America First" means and toning it down to something they could be empathetic towards and talking N. Korea, threatening total destruction of N Korea if they attack one of our allies.  If Clinton was 'the hawk', I would argue Trump is being 'the iron fist'

Edited by Lushen

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28 minutes ago, Radiant head said:

i mean idk in what universe does he not sound like a genocidal maniac in that vid

Explain.  To me, he was calling out the N Korean president as a genocidal maniac as well as Iranian terrorist groups.  

He also redefined America First and told the members present at the UN that it is only the same obligation they have for their countries to put themselves first, nothing more.  With the exception of N Korea and Iran (emphasis on terrorism in Iran), he was extremely civil.  People applauded when he talked about America first.

Specifically, he also talked about how the Iranian people felt oppressed and wanted to overthrow their gov't.  How is encouraging a transition of power from dictators to its people genocidal?  He also said he is working with muslims to overthrow islamic extremism so if you mean genocidal in the sense that he wants to kill all terrorists then...yea, sure.

I will never understand why people compare Trump to Hitler (or genocidal maniacs).  I understand many of his criticisms, but this one is so baseless and absurd its frankly insulting to American society.

Edited by Lushen

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5 minutes ago, Lushen said:

Explain.  To me, he was calling out the N Korean president as a genocidal maniac as well as Iranian terrorist groups.  

He also redefined America First and told the members present at the UN that it is only the same obligation they have for their countries to put themselves first, nothing more.  With the exception of N Korea and Iran (emphasis on terrorism in Iran), he was extremely civil.  

oh so other than the part where he talks about destroying north korea and iran, he was very civil.   other than the calling for genocide there was nothing genocidal in his speech, that's one way to view things i guess. 

the north korea and iran regimes might be shit, but they don't pose anywhere near the danger or commit anything close to the level of mass murder that the us does, grandstanding and threatening those countries is sanctimonious and way more scary than anything coming from those places. 

 

Edited by Radiant head

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4 minutes ago, Radiant head said:

oh so other than the part where he talks about destroying north korea and iran, he was very civil.   other than the calling for genocide there was nothing genocidal in his speech, that's one way to view things i guess. 

You are applying what you want to believe about Trump into his speech and not looking at what he actually said.  He said if N Korea attacks one of his allies he will destroy them.  This is not genocide, this is defending our allies - I hope to God we never have a president whose lack of spine won't allow him/her to retaliate when our allies are attacked.  He did not mention nuking North Korea unprovoked.  You are welcome to believe he will, but that falls under the category of conspiracy theories.  

Earlier, a lot of democrats and liberals were saying North Korea was no threat because they don't have 'blah'.  Well, as predicted by conservatives and republicans N Korea does have 'blah' and likes to fly it directly over Japaneses airspace while considering nuking our military bases.  I think Trump's assessment of the North Korean "Rocket Man" being on a suicide run is fairly accurate.  It's time for both sides of the political spectrum to understand that North Korea is a very real threat to world peace.

Edited by Lushen

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10 minutes ago, Lushen said:

You are applying what you want to believe about Trump into his speech and not looking at what he actually said.  He said if N Korea attacks one of his allies he will destroy them.  This is not genocide, this is defending our allies - I hope to God we never have a president whose spine won't allow him to retaliate when our allies are attacked.

yes i'm applying a little thing called subtext.  north korea isn't going to attack a us ally because they know that would assure their own destruction, and it's not even unreasonable for them to hold on to nuclear weapons since it's literally the only reason the us hasn't already entered the country the way we have done in iraq and libya.  the nk regime might be awful, but they get nothing out of attacking countries for no reason.  this is real life, not a fire emblem game. 

the gap between hitler and the american right wing has always been smaller than anyone would care to admit (how many people died in the iraq war for no reason?), trump is just making it even smaller.  if "the great awakening of nations" doesn't sound fascist as hell idk what does

Edited by Radiant head

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8 minutes ago, Radiant head said:

the gap between hitler and the american right wing has always been smaller than anyone would care to admit

That's just downright close minded and insulting.

 

You seem to believe that North Korea is a logical country.  I'd like you to skim through this page.  
http://www.therichest.com/rich-list/most-shocking/10-most-ridiculous-lies-north-koreans-are-made-to-believe/
Not on this list, and a personal favorite of mine, North Korea was the first country to land a man on the Sun.  While you think it's totally ridiculous, I'll remind you that the only parts of the internet Koreans are allowed to browse is North Korea's political propaganda websites.  The most important thing referenced above is the fact that Korean's people believe the US started the Korean war.  Hence, why Trump refers to his threats as a suicide mission - he's totally illogical.  

Edited by Lushen

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18 minutes ago, Lushen said:

He said if N Korea attacks one of his allies he will destroy them.  This is not genocide, this is defending our allies - I hope to God we never have a president whose lack of spine won't allow him/her to retaliate when our allies are attacked.  He did not mention nuking North Korea unprovoked.  You are welcome to believe he will, but that falls under the category of conspiracy theories.  

Earlier, a lot of democrats and liberals were saying North Korea was no threat because they don't have 'blah'.  Well, as predicted by conservatives and republicans N Korea does have 'blah' and likes to fly it directly over Japaneses airspace while considering nuking our military bases.  I think Trump's assessment of the North Korean "Rocket Man" being on a suicide run is fairly accurate.  It's time for both sides of the political spectrum to understand that North Korea is a very real threat to world peace.

Even China went on record saying that if they attack a US ally they are on their own.

Playing a game of chicken with Kim Jong Un still seems unwise. While they have threatened basically everyone around them for decades, they generally are not so loud when saber rattling is not happening. If you were going to do anything it should have probably been earlier instead of dicking around in Iraq.

But Trump coming out and making claims of destroying North Korea is the exact thing the Kim family has been saying to their people. America hates us and wants to destroys us, and now they are being vindicated.

And although I linked it before, there is one country that is considered the biggest threat to world peace above all others. Probably because of perpetual war.

Edited by Tryhard

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