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16 minutes ago, Tryhard said:

I don't know about that, as I would say the likes of Richard Spencer and David Duke are pretty extreme.

What do you mean about the alt-right not supporting Trump anymore? Everything I've seen suggests that they still do.

They at the very least know that their position is unpopular and it's unlikely they are going to get everything they want. But the fact is, that they specifically supported Trump because they believed him to take them to the nearest possible stop on their ideological train. 

Even most of the ones who are deeply anti-semitic acknowledge that they can overlook that in favour of building the wall or some dumb shit.

I suppose it depends on your definition. Generally when I think of "alt-right" I think of the crowd that wants an ethno-state to the point other ethnicities should be deported or executed, hates the majority of non-white races save east Asians, abhors Jews due to their role in certain ideologies they loathe (for one example, communism), views gay people (and similar) as a poison to society and wants them to be locked up or executed, thinks the weak should perish and the strong should be at the top, are hyper-nationalist in addition to ethno-nationalist, and maybe around ~65% are authoritarian. If forced to choose between eliminating all Jews or putting up a wall on the Mexican border, they would pick the first option without hesitation.

I don't consider someone who likes Trump, thinks a wall would be good, and is a civic nationalist (doesn't care about ethnicity so long as they are loyal to the nation) "alt-right" personally. Not sure if "moderate right" is the correct term or not, but it should get the point across.

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1 hour ago, Camus The Dark Knight said:

If forced to choose between eliminating all Jews or putting up a wall on the Mexican border, they would pick the first option without hesitation.

Bit of a false dichotomy, is it not?

Pragmatically, they know that suggesting that we round up all the Jews and murder them isn't going to fly with most people. Most of them that aren't on anonymous message boards know they need to cloak their views. Is the telling part not that they think Trump is (and from all indications that I have, still is) the closest to their ideology?

And yeah, some of them may have expressed minor disapproval for Trump's relationship with Israel. Guess what? They will be back in 2020 to vote for him because the opponent is a horrible socialist whatever, because people have short memories.

Edited by Tryhard

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1 minute ago, Tryhard said:

Bit of a false dichotomy, is it not?

Pragmatically, they know that suggesting that we round up all the Jews and murder them isn't going to fly with most people. Is the telling part not that they think Trump is (and from all indications that I have, still is) the closest to their ideology?

And yeah, some of them may have expressed minor disapproval for Trump's relationship with Israel. Guess what? They will be back in 2020 to vote for him because the opponent is a horrible socialist whatever, because people have short memories.

To answer the question you have to have an understanding of the group in question. Like all extremists they are religiously dedicated to their cause and don't have a short memory. Think of one of those kinds of people who can hold a grudge because a kid stole their bag of Halloween candy when they were eight. They don't hold minor disapproval for him supporting Israel, they literally hate him for it. The majority are either not voting, or voting in Trump's opponent to "speed up the collapse". As for the wall question, they believe the Jews are behind the push for migration and that brown people are their useful idiots. Therefor, by their logic, eliminate the Jewish problem, and the others can be dealt with swiftly.

During my time lurking on extremist sites (of all sorts) I have found that it is not really hatred that is the underlying cause for the extremism. It certainly fuels it, but from what I have observed it's fear. Like the saying there is nothing more dangerous than a wounded animal, or the saying about a cornered animal will lash out. If someone believes themselves or their kin to be in danger (in the case of the alt-right, it's the death and destruction of their people and culture via replacement migration), they will lash out, and the more people try to suppress them whether through censorship, shame, etc. The bigger the backlash will be once it occurs.

 

 

I think I am done with this topic, it's been fun but I am tired of explaining things to people who still think I am on some side for some reason. If anyone feels the need to trash talk me, get the last word, etc. just send a PM.

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On 7/19/2019 at 9:17 AM, Camus The Dark Knight said:

I think I am done with this topic, it's been fun but I am tired of explaining things to people who still think I am on some side for some reason. If anyone feels the need to trash talk me, get the last word, etc. just send a PM.

And I will enforce this.  As in, if I see you reply in this topic again, it's an automatic suspension.

If you want to bring in a different point, that's fine.  Do you know what isn't fine?

On 7/16/2019 at 10:55 PM, Camus The Dark Knight said:

Such a lack of knowledge of how things work in US politics around here...

Being passive-aggressive about your stance, or generally implying that the other guy's an idiot.  It's one thing to debate.  But you are NOT to put down whoever you're debating with.  If you're as smart as you think you are, you should be able to get your point across without resorting to such tactics.  Likewise, if I get a PM from you, I shouldn't see such things in it, either.

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"This is like watching an episode of The Bachelor. That's why Trump is president."   -My Wife; Watching the Democratic Primary Debate last night- 


I think this about sums it up:
Image may contain: one or more people and text
  

Edited by Shoblongoo

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On 7/31/2019 at 11:11 AM, Shoblongoo said:

I think this about sums it up:
Image may contain: one or more people and text

You forgot the part where Williamson is an anti-vaxxer. And, she believes disease should be embraced, that AIDs are angels dressed as Darth Vader. And, antidepressants are bad and make people kill themselves. Willpower and a positive outlook is apparently all you need to overcome illness.

-After I saw this mentioned after the 30th's debate, and read a little more today, I really got to say the media has to call her out on these viewpoints. These are WRONG!, and dangerous for the health and wellbeing of American society. The one comparison I read is that Williamson is getting the same, incorrect, treatment as Trump got as a candidate. Treating someone with horribly problematic viewpoints as a normal candidate with rational views.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer

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she's definitely an old school hippie with new age tendencies

but yeah, she's not going anywhere. it's kinda how i feel about bill de blasio. at least he's making good talking points on stage even if he ain't doing anything other than promoting his political career.

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So, the El Paso shooting. I saw an article that pissed me off. It is listed as an opinion piece, but the entire concept is warped.

https://forward.com/opinion/428847/the-el-paso-shooter-supported-trump-if-you-do-too-you-are-supporting-the/

I would be the last person to give any defense to Trump or the Republicans, but suggesting that there is a direct blame for Trump supporters is going into the territory where if you take this logic out and apply it to any other aspect, it falls apart. The guy was a Christian (I believe, although I can't verify this - regardless there have been others in the past), can we conclude that all Christians now are responsible? When a self-described supporter of Sanders went out to shoot a Republican politician, and Sanders came out and said this guy was an idiot, is it his fault? Actually, the media did write a few of those stories at that time. It simply will not hold water.

I'm not naive enough to believe there is no correlation for far-right terrorism, and you could certainly make the case that Trump and the Republicans influence people like this (for example, the MAGAbomber came out and claimed he was fully influenced by Fox News), but this is a leap even beyond that.

These type of articles from media organisations actively hurt progressive or Democratic causes, which annoys me more than the right downplaying certain terrorism statistics. If I was a member of the right that was pretending to be a progressive outlet to make them look bad, this is exactly what I would write.

Edited by Tryhard

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Alas, replace "Trump supporter" with "Muslim" and the result is a little too close to home.  Hold people responsible for their actions.  Whether their ideology comes into play should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis.

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Anybody else have a deep, dreadful pit in their stomach over the Epstein death? Barr is involved with the investigation of his death, which is being conducted by the Inspector General.

Nothing is going to get done, especially if there are more ties between Trump and Epstein than we already know of. The pedophile ringleader that peddled children to many of the American elite is now dead of very suspect circumstances. And the American elite are now looking into it. Nothing has made me this angry in years.

America is rotten.

Edited by Slumber

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Barr being there means we can expect deflection from Trump to Bill and Hillary Clinton with more conspiracy theories. I wouldn't doubt that Trumpians are already spreading Conspiracy theories of how Bill Clinton is probably involved with Epstein's death because they were associates in the past while completely ignoring Trump.

Ex-GOP lawmaker: Vote out EVERY SINGLE Republican

Edited by Dr. Tarrasque

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On 8/10/2019 at 6:07 PM, Slumber said:

Nothing is going to get done, especially if there are more ties between Trump and Epstein than we already know of. The pedophile ringleader that peddled children to many of the American elite is now dead of very suspect circumstances. And the American elite are now looking into it. Nothing has made me this angry in years.

America is rotten.

Two (2) days before he "killed himself" while under 24-7 suicide watch in a maximum security prison--where the official story is not a single guard noticed anything as he tied a noose + hung himself... 

A former Senator, a former governor, a multi-billionaire hedgefund manager, an MIT professor, a member of the British Royal Family, and a foreign prime minister were identified as individuals accused by Epstein's former sex slaves of using his human trafficking services to procure underaged girls.

...It wasn't just the American elite...

ALOT of very rich and very powerful people wanted this guy dead before he started talking.  
 

Edited by Shoblongoo

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Yea, I'm not happy with the mess surrounding Epstein's death. But for all we know it could be prison justice. Child molesters getting attacked or murdered isn't exactly unheard of in the US penal system. Or he could actually have just killed himself while the guards were asleep. 

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I ain't no conspiracy theorist.

But "Epstien was murdered in federal custody to prevent him from testifying against the politicians and billionaires who got girls from him" is one of the more plausible ones I've heard in a good while.   

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On 8/16/2019 at 12:25 PM, Shoblongoo said:

I ain't no conspiracy theorist.

But "Epstien was murdered in federal custody to prevent him from testifying against the politicians and billionaires who got girls from him" is one of the more plausible ones I've heard in a good while.   

this is probably the only conspiracy theory that like 99% of the people you ask will believe it.

like seriously, the camera just happened to stop working at the time of his death

now the real question in the theory is who had him done in?

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Could be anything. Epstein's lawyers could've communicated to anyone close to Trump or Barr that Epstein did not want to face interrogation and let the truth come out. Barr or someone else with power around Trump could've simply given the order to give him the tools to commit suicide and the guards' silence could easily be purchased.

It is just unfortunate that this feeds the "Deep State" garbage from Sean Hannity.

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7 hours ago, Captain Karnage said:

this is probably the only conspiracy theory that like 99% of the people you ask will believe it.

like seriously, the camera just happened to stop working at the time of his death

now the real question in the theory is who had him done in?

The only possible solutions are murder or gross negligence.  The fact that people were already making jokes about Epstein's "suicide" before it happened and this being the first ever suicide at that facility make everything very suspect.

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He's had a penchant for bribing prison guards and officials in the past, so it could just be him paying someone to look away while he succeeded at this attempt.

But [email protected] taking control of the investigation. That is literally the worst if you want to quell the conspiracy theories.

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On 8/18/2019 at 1:34 AM, Captain Karnage said:

now the real question in the theory is who had him done in?


You're probably too young to remember this but there's a classic episode of "The Simpsons" called Who Shot Mr. Burns? 

They investigate everyone in Springfield. And the joke at the end is it could have been any character on the show. Because every single person had a motive to shoot him--there wasn't a single person who the rotten old man hadn't wronged in some way.

Even attempting to tackle that question is going to be like a live action episode of Who Shot Mr. Burns?

Count on two hands the number of people who had the means and the motive to stage a prison suicide. You can't. There's too many of them. 

Edited by Shoblongoo

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