General US Politics

[eclipse]

At this point, I really want to start holding the various media outlets accountable for their actions.  Picking on one thing and hyper-focusing on it isn't doing any favors to the political climate.  Yes, "do your research" is a thing, but first there needs to be a shift towards attitudes that are willing to accept change.  Instead of just finding things that agree with a position, no matter how twisted the truth gets (this is where critical thinking and a culture shift comes in).

[Interdimensional Observer]

5 hours ago, Lord Raven said:

At this point, if Georgia doesn't work out, all focus has to be towards elections.

I don't remember where I read it (538 in the days after the election?), nor the exact statistic, but I think I saw it said somewhere that in the past 70 years, only twice has the party in power in the House (or was it the party of the sitting President?) not lost seats in the midterm elections. Considering the Democrats are holding on to House control by a thread... 😬. 

And here, after the 2018 midterms, the Blue Wave was heralded by enthusiastic optimists to suggest that the House was practically destined to Democrat forevermore.

[Lord Raven]

Keep in mind a lot can change in 2 years. But yeah, in theory it doesn't look good.

[eclipse]

Actual Fox News opinion: "If the Democrats get both the president and Congress, they can pass whatever they want!"

No, really, that was said on air.  And that's when my mom and grandma got a very, uh, heated explanation as to why I don't take them seriously.  When you're being fed bullshit like this, along with a conditioned fear response of Democrats, you bet those viewers will go out and vote midterms.

[Lewyn]

11 hours ago, eclipse said:

Actual Fox News opinion: "If the Democrats get both the president and Congress, they can pass whatever they want!"

No, really, that was said on air.  And that's when my mom and grandma got a very, uh, heated explanation as to why I don't take them seriously.  When you're being fed bullshit like this, along with a conditioned fear response of Democrats, you bet those viewers will go out and vote midterms.

Yes this is why Democrats have to adopt a similar ultra fear mongering strategy.  They can show their plans to make America better and their caring, but also need to really paint Republicans as a threat to democracy.  The end of America.  Cause with Trump's current actions and all the House reps supporting it, they really are.  Don't even need to lie, just really harp on these points and possible dire outcomes if Republicans are in charge again.

Salem witch trials were pretty successful weren't they?  Wasn't Mccarthyism as well?  People are easy to terrify and if you give them a target they will hate and fear them. They need to take these runoff races, but if not, they need to dominate the midterms.  Make Americans terrified of the GOP (as they should be anyways). 

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Lewyn said:

Yes this is why Democrats have to adopt a similar ultra fear mongering strategy.  They can show their plans to make America better and their caring, but also need to really paint Republicans as a threat to democracy.  The end of America.  Cause with Trump's current actions and all the House reps supporting it, they really are.  Don't even need to lie, just really harp on these points and possible dire outcomes if Republicans are in charge again.

Salem witch trials were pretty successful weren't they?  Wasn't Mccarthyism as well?  People are easy to terrify and if you give them a target they will hate and fear them. They need to take these runoff races, but if not, they need to dominate the midterms.  Make Americans terrified of the GOP (as they should be anyways). 

Successful in what way? Because I haven't checked the actual statistics, but I don't think the number of people practicing witchcraft changed very much. At least in the whole sell your soul for evil powers way they were persecuting.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Jotari

[Excellen Browning]

 

coup continuing

 

 

 

 

[Karimlan]

8 hours ago, Lewyn said:

Salem witch trials were pretty successful weren't they?  Wasn't Mccarthyism as well?  People are easy to terrify and if you give them a target they will hate and fear them. They need to take these runoff races, but if not, they need to dominate the midterms.  Make Americans terrified of the GOP (as they should be anyways). 

Advocating this kind of thinking makes you as bad as Tertullian, who doesn't really give a picture of Heaven or eternal reward as much as he dangles the possibility of contemplating the tortures of the damned for the wicked.

[Lewyn]

3 hours ago, Karimlan said:

Advocating this kind of thinking makes you as bad as Tertullian, who doesn't really give a picture of Heaven or eternal reward as much as he dangles the possibility of contemplating the tortures of the damned for the wicked.

Reward or inspiration doesn't motivate as much or as well as fear.  Republicans and right wing media have thoroughly shown that.  Also disregard the rules as much as legally possible, the political backlash is insignificant compared to the reward.  The GOP have it so easy, they won't when the left isn't afraid to fight back just as nasty.

12 hours ago, Jotari said:

Successful in what way? Because I haven't checked the actual statistics, but I don't think the number of people practicing witchcraft changed very much. At least in the whole sell your soul for evil powers way they were persecuting.

Successful in it spooked everyone into being terrified of witchcraft.  Enough so that baseless accusations held great weight.  

[Excellen Browning]

I'm sorry to be the one to tell you, but witchcraft isn't real, and the republican party is.

[Karimlan]

1 hour ago, Lewyn said:

Reward or inspiration doesn't motivate as much or as well as fear.  Republicans and right wing media have thoroughly shown that.  Also disregard the rules as much as legally possible, the political backlash is insignificant compared to the reward.  The GOP have it so easy, they won't when the left isn't afraid to fight back just as nasty.

Enough with the Machiavellian batshit. On the surface, it feels like you took one good look at The Prince and asked if you could apply its tenets under a cause different from what was intended in that book. And that makes you no better than a card-carrying member of the GOP.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

EC counting has concluded for all except Hawaii. Not a single faithless elector is remarkable. I guess they really stamped down on that behavior after last time. 

I think there's plenty more one could add to the end of the list there. 

• Trump's in jail, but he can still run in 2024. There's no law against it.
• Trump escaped to Russia, but he was about to earn parole anyway. 
• Look, nobody's seen the body. He's probably not dead.

[eclipse]

7 hours ago, Excellen Browning said:

I'm sorry to be the one to tell you, but witchcraft isn't real, and the republican party is.

Wiccans might argue, but IMO they're really low on my list of things that can ruin this country.  I think I have "an overabundance of maple syrup" before them.  And "crazy president who's making life hell for everyone" much higher up.

5 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

EC counting has concluded for all except Hawaii. Not a single faithless elector is remarkable. I guess they really stamped down on that behavior after last time. 

I think there's plenty more one could add to the end of the list there. 

• Trump's in jail, but he can still run in 2024. There's no law against it.
• Trump escaped to Russia, but he was about to earn parole anyway. 
• Look, nobody's seen the body. He's probably not dead.

"Trump tries to convince Congress of HIS EC results".

[Lewyn]

6 hours ago, Karimlan said:

Enough with the Machiavellian batshit. On the surface, it feels like you took one good look at The Prince and asked if you could apply its tenets under a cause different from what was intended in that book. And that makes you no better than a card-carrying member of the GOP.

If you can't beat them join them.  Who controls the courts?  Who controls more states?  Who controls the Senate, and possibly the House in 2 years?  Don't have to join the GOP, but instead of continuously getting beat down and being oh so delicate and polite, you have to fight back.  Democrats are the kid in school that would get beaten up and their lunch money stolen every day, and never fight back cause they don't believe in violence, or they are 'above that'.  Once Democrats have control you can be the bigger person.  Otherwise Republicans who are getting more and more extreme will fuck this country up more and more, and Democrats will have their good manners but little else.

Woo, the electoral vote is over.  306-232 landslide victory for Biden.  Now surely Trump will concede?  Afterall it is not the networks this is the actual electors.  Surely right?  Nah....Barr resigned (Trump fired him) so the guy replacing him can maybe throw Biden and Harris in jail or shit on the constitution some more.  

Also looking forward to all those GOP Senators and such who said once the Elector college votes it is official and they will acknowledge Biden being president elect?  Can they grow some semblance of a spine, or will they crawl and snivel before the orange terror instead?

[Excellen Browning]

One of the maxims of The Prince is that it's better to be feared than hated. republicans are hated by many and feared by few. Now that I think about it, the same applies to the dems.

[Jotari]

5 hours ago, Lewyn said:

If you can't beat them join them.  Who controls the courts?  Who controls more states?  Who controls the Senate, and possibly the House in 2 years?  Don't have to join the GOP, but instead of continuously getting beat down and being oh so delicate and polite, you have to fight back.  Democrats are the kid in school that would get beaten up and their lunch money stolen every day, and never fight back cause they don't believe in violence, or they are 'above that'.  Once Democrats have control you can be the bigger person.  Otherwise Republicans who are getting more and more extreme will fuck this country up more and more, and Democrats will have their good manners but little else.

Woo, the electoral vote is over.  306-232 landslide victory for Biden.  Now surely Trump will concede?  Afterall it is not the networks this is the actual electors.  Surely right?  Nah....Barr resigned (Trump fired him) so the guy replacing him can maybe throw Biden and Harris in jail or shit on the constitution some more.  

Also looking forward to all those GOP Senators and such who said once the Elector college votes it is official and they will acknowledge Biden being president elect?  Can they grow some semblance of a spine, or will they crawl and snivel before the orange terror instead?

And what then after becoming massively hardlined, the Democrats get into control and with their new philosophy start pulling the exact same illegal actions (which many Republicans will swear they already are). You'd just have turned the wheel.

[Karimlan]

3 hours ago, Excellen Browning said:

One of the maxims of The Prince is that it's better to be feared than hated. republicans are hated by many and feared by few. Now that I think about it, the same applies to the dems.

it's actually this:

“It is better to be feared than loved, if you cannot be both.”

But the point remains. What's being advocated is a dangerous position which will make the Dems no better than the GOP. Someone here apparently forgot what ol' Freddie said about what happens when one looks at the abyss.

[Excellen Browning]

3 hours ago, Karimlan said:

it's actually this:

“It is better to be feared than loved, if you cannot be both.”

But the point remains. What's being advocated is a dangerous position which will make the Dems no better than the GOP. Someone here apparently forgot what ol' Freddie said about what happens when one looks at the abyss.

Yes and no. If I remember it correctly (and I read pincipe a decade ago, so give me some slack) he starts off with this, then veers off into how it should be fear and not hatred. Both are correct.

As for the actual discussion, I agree and that's why I think Trump should be slapped with congressional investigations and possibly (probably) ((almost certainly)) be hit with federal charges along with the civil suits, state charges, and probable bankruptcy he's already facing. It's one thing not to play the republican game, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't behead the snake.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Excellen Browning

[Tryhard]

Trump actually has the potential to do major damage to the Republican party on his way out, and unlike a traditional Republican like Dubya he may actually do it because he's petulant. You already have normal Republican loyalists saying that the GOP failed to support Trump in the critical hour. Of course, the reason for this is that they think that the election was stolen from Trump and the GOP aren't quite willing to go full authoritarian, but regardless. They wholeheartedly believe in these delusions.

I'm not sure if it'll last because the scaremongering about the next Democrat being a communist will put them right back in line, but it would be kind of brilliant if it either lead to the creation of a third party that siphoned Republican votes or a not-insignificant portion of Republican voters just didn't go back to them.

I remember back in 2016 some Republicans were saying how if they let Trump in, it would destroy the GOP. It would be amusing if that turned out to be the case.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Tryhard

[Lord Raven]

21 hours ago, Lewyn said:

Reward or inspiration doesn't motivate as much or as well as fear. 

Fear was part of the Democratic platform. Everyone was talking about how Trump is trying to destroy democracy and take your healthcare. What you're hoping for is a propaganda network.

[eclipse]

59 minutes ago, Lord Raven said:

Fear was part of the Democratic platform. Everyone was talking about how Trump is trying to destroy democracy and take your healthcare. What you're hoping for is a propaganda network.

Rather, a propaganda network that caters to a certain set of tastes.  "It's only good if it espouses what I want, and I'm willing to do whatever it takes to get what I want" is a very dangerous mentality.

[Lewyn]

On 12/15/2020 at 11:58 AM, Lord Raven said:

Fear was part of the Democratic platform. Everyone was talking about how Trump is trying to destroy democracy and take your healthcare. What you're hoping for is a propaganda network.

Yes and it worked.  Republicans performed well, but Trump who carried the enormous advantage of being an incumbent (only 10 have lost before) and the electoral college favoring his party, lost convincingly.  

Thing is Trump was indeed a tyrant and a big threat, Democrats just needed to say the truth with him.  Democrats can be truthful, but more outraged and more fear mongering about all the bad stuff the Republican party as a whole is up to.  

Really I'm saying is have some balls and if someone punches you, you break their jaw.  You punch back harder and make them sorry they even tried anything.  This is how you counter Republicans.  Also attack first if there is an opportunity.  

I'm hearing Trump is trying to do special counsel to investigate Hunter.  Well Biden should cancel that as soon as he's president cause it is a political hackjob anyways, and he should say Fuck off to his critics.  Then let his AG investigate not only Trump but Trump's degenerate kids.  Not order it himself, but allow it to happen and not hinder it in anyway.  

[Jotari]

So is anyone going to change that poll? It's been there since the 2016 election, right?

[Karimlan]

13 hours ago, Lewyn said:

Thing is Trump was indeed a tyrant and a big threat, Democrats just needed to say the truth with him.  Democrats can be truthful, but more outraged and more fear mongering about all the bad stuff the Republican party as a whole is up to.  

Really I'm saying is have some balls and if someone punches you, you break their jaw.  You punch back harder and make them sorry they even tried anything.  This is how you counter Republicans.  Also attack first if there is an opportunity.  

The emphasized phrases reek of more Machiavellian batshit that makes you no better than Republicans. Dare I say it, they make you look just as bad, if not categorically worse.

Besides, aren't you contradicting yourself by saying that and "Democrats just needed to say the truth with him" in the same breath?

Edited December 17, 2020 by Karimlan

[Lewyn]

6 hours ago, Karimlan said:

The emphasized phrases reek of more Machiavellian batshit that makes you no better than Republicans. Dare I say it, they make you look just as bad, if not categorically worse.

Besides, aren't you contradicting yourself by saying that and "Democrats just needed to say the truth with him" in the same breath?

That's a bit extreme.  I'm simply saying Democrats have to fight back.  Republicans can beat the shit out of Democrats and they know it.  What the GOP is doing is Machiavellian, what Democrats need to do is defend themselves.  Democrats have the power to defend themselves, they simply choose not to.  I'm sick of it.  When the US was a colony of Britain, modern Democrats would protest "Good sir king, this is improper, and these are the reasons so.  It is an outrage, perhaps you should give us our independence.  It is the right thing to do!"  King George would laugh and ignore it, and modern Democrats would be like "Hmm...let's brainstorm and come up with better arguments I'm sure we'll convince him!" as they get trampled to death.