Dragoncat Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 11 minutes ago, eclipse said: I'd be a hypocrite for not calling this out. No more of this "both sides" bullshit. One side clearly had an agenda, and very clearly marched on Capitol Hill yesterday. One side has shouted about how the election was stolen. One side filed a lot of lawsuits regarding said election, which were promptly shot down. One side has the support of the white supremacist groups. And one side still gets mad about wearing a face mask in public, in the middle of a pandemic. Apparently, none of these are deal breakers to you. But please understand why there's such a sentiment against Trump's camp - it's not an accident. I was saying that there are nutjobs on both sides in general, not just related to this incident. Biden supporters weren't the aggressors in this case. But if Trump had won, I feel that Biden supporters would do something similar. Biden supporters have rioted and destroyed property over BLM. Biden supporters are not angels either. And I say that as one. The problem, as I said, is Trump does not call out his bad apple supporters. The problem with this country is the two parties would rather fight each other than work together, and people on both the far right and far left do things like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysta Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 No they wouldn't. No matter how much you want to imagine they would. BLM fights against police brutality. They don't spearhead attempts to overturn a democratic election. You don't get to equivocate this away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 Just now, Dragoncat said: I was saying that there are nutjobs on both sides in general, not just related to this incident. Biden supporters weren't the aggressors in this case. But if Trump had won, I feel that Biden supporters would do something similar. Biden supporters have rioted and destroyed property over BLM. Biden supporters are not angels either. And I say that as one. The problem, as I said, is Trump does not call out his bad apple supporters. The problem with this country is the two parties would rather fight each other than work together, and people on both the far right and far left do things like this. NO. You have completely missed the point. And the fact that you think Biden's supporters would do things like plot to kidnap a governor and storm the White House tells me that your version of reality and mine are really different. But I'd be remiss if I didn't try. The issue is that there's a very significant portion who completely and utterly lacks empathy for people who don't exist beyond their noses. Poor people? They deserve it. Woman who wants an abortion? Slut who needs to be punished. COVID? That face mask is infringing on my freedom. Liberals? The more we make them suffer, the better. It's a horribly selfish view point, and one that isn't going to get any better unless you're willing to publicly condemn their actions, and those who silently support it. Every. Single. Time. Along with better education, something which Republicans don't like to support (gee I wonder why). Because if you're going to excuse them, then at the very best, it's not enough to bother you. Which in turn is a gigantic problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 (edited) I will gracefully back out of this. My final word is that I am saddened by this country. I will back out before I put my foot in my mouth with the final word: There are Republicans who are not these people we speak of. Source: My mother. She is a lovely lady. And most of the state of Wyoming. If I don't get to say that Biden supporters may have possibly pulled this, then you guys don't get to say that all Republicans are the same as these idiots. Edited January 8, 2021 by Dragoncat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 (edited) It should be noted that usually you have claims that end up being fake. For example: https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/twitter-takes-down-washington-protest-disinformation-bot-behavior-n1221456 It happened quite a few times in the previous year when the protests happened. Even now you have people claiming yesterday's storming of the Capitol was a ploy by ANTIFA as well. Edited January 8, 2021 by Acacia Sgt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 7 minutes ago, Dragoncat said: I was saying that there are nutjobs on both sides in general, not just related to this incident. Biden supporters weren't the aggressors in this case. But if Trump had won, I feel that Biden supporters would do something similar. Biden supporters have rioted and destroyed property over BLM. Biden supporters are not angels either. And I say that as one. The problem, as I said, is Trump does not call out his bad apple supporters. The problem with this country is the two parties would rather fight each other than work together, and people on both the far right and far left do things like this. Uh, Dragoncat ... the fact that you actually unironically believe this suggests to me that you weren't paying attention to the past 4 years. When Trump won back in 2016, there were definitely protests. But no one stormed the U.S. Capitol, and no one conspired to kidnap Republican governors or anything like that. The COVID situation has proved more than ever that there is a group of people that believe that their own selfish rights trump everyone else's rights and ... well, just think that rules are for people who are not them. And that attitude is coming from one side of the aisle. The two sides are definitely not equal here, and if we want to get anything done, that is the first thing we need to be able to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysta Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 If you're more interested in defending the goodwill of Trump supporters than anything else after all this, that's probably a good idea. I don't really care about your mom. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewyn Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 Such a forced concession by Trump, if you can even call it that. Biden and Democrats will have to ruthlessly and thoroughly investigate Trump and his enablers in this incident as well as all past federal incidents in which he might have broken the law. I think the Trump wing of the GOP needs to be gone completely, or weakened so much it can never realistically challenge for president and have an incredibly challenging time even getting much of a voice in the House or Senate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 4 minutes ago, Dragoncat said: I will gracefully back out of this. My final word is that I am saddened by this country. I will back out before I put my foot in my mouth with the final word: There are Republicans who are not these people we speak of. Source: My mother. She is a lovely lady. And most of the state of Wyoming. If I don't get to say that Biden supporters may have possibly pulled this, then you guys don't get to say that all Republicans are the same as these idiots. Oh, you want to bring family into this. My mother is also a lovely lady, devout Christian, etc. She despises Trump with all of her heart. Why? Because she pays attention to the news, and doesn't try to use weasel out of her position with this "both sides" nonsense. She also practices the empathy she espouses, and absolutely wants those who can't take care of themselves to have some kind of safety net. I think I'd have to warn myself if I posted what my grandmother said about Trump. Which means if you're really that sympathetic to Trump, I suggest you say it openly. Because it's a lot easier than dragging it out of you this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, Sunwoo said: the fact that you actually unironically believe this suggests to me that you weren't paying attention to the past 4 years. You are right. I do not pay attention to most politics because I hate drama and I hate hate. Political discussions stress me out to the point of tears. Which I am starting now. A little bit of kindness goes a long way, as does viewing the opposite side as human. Humans who make bad decisions and may be in echo chambers of bad thoughts. 4 minutes ago, Crysta said: If you're more interested in defending the goodwill of Trump supporters than anything else after all this, that's probably a good idea. What I was interested in is saying "we need to respect our democracy" and "the two party system is what's wrong with this country" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysta Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Dragoncat said: What I was interested in is saying "we need to respect our democracy" and "the two party system is what's wrong with this country" one of the best ways to achieve this aim is not being a trump supporter edit: also getting rid of the fascist party and letting the somewhat sane republicans fill that void but we're not even getting past step 1 i imagine 🙂 Edited January 8, 2021 by Crysta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 1 minute ago, Crysta said: one of the best ways to achieve this aim is not being a trump supporter I voted for Biden. But you have a good day, I am backing out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysta Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 1 minute ago, Dragoncat said: I voted for Biden. But you have a good day, I am backing out. i mean, that is really the bare minimum, but i guess you're a step better than the ones who wanted to stick by their principles and didn't vote at all the republican party is an active threat to democracy. full stop. the majority of republicans in the house voted for overturning the results of numerous state elections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulously Olivier Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 The "party of law and order" made a laughing stock of our nation yesterday, and this cringey "both sides" nonsense is unacceptable rubbish. Say what you will about the riots perpetuated by the left. They have nothing on an attempted coup to overturn a democratic election directly egged on by the worst president in American history. The orange man should be impeached, just to hit him with the door on the way out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 You guys aren't exactly helping. I understand the frustration with seeing the "both sides" talk but when it looks like y'all are just ganging up on one person when they're trying to say remember the not every Republican is a piece of shit, you're doing more harm and giving evidence for the actually shitty Republicans to work with and get more people on their side. I absolutely want to see the Republican party be destroyed thanks to the bullshit that has come from the Trump presidency but there's only 2 viable parties for people to choose and if what they can gather more from people who vote Democratic is memories of them being bullied, you're handing votes over to the side you want to destroy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Dragoncat said: You are right. I do not pay attention to most politics because I hate drama and I hate hate. Political discussions stress me out to the point of tears. Which I am starting now. A little bit of kindness goes a long way, as does viewing the opposite side as human. Humans who make bad decisions and may be in echo chambers of bad thoughts. I hope you realize that "hating drama and hate" isn't unique to you. I didn't start paying attention to politics in 2016 because I like all that stuff. I started paying attention because I realized then that no, people will not always vote for what's sensical and no, the majority will not always vote for what is in its best interests. I started paying attention because I no longer could count on "other people" to make the right choice, and so I have to be aware of what the elected leadership is doing so I'm not naive and stupid as to what's going on. Your talk of "a little bit of kindness" falls on deaf ears because, first, you're saying it to the wrong people and second, the people who you should be saying it to won't listen. People who spout about how "we need to view the opposite side with kindness" haven't been paying attention in the past several years. Because yes, in an ideal society, that would be the case, but look around you. This is far from ideal. One side has decided that things like "kindness" and "empathy" are signs of weakness that only "beta cucks" and "libtards" cry about and that they need a "safe space." You cannot ask for kindness when one side thinks being kind is weak and that they actually enjoy making the other side upset. Humans may make bad choices, but choices have consequences. You cannot just say "they're human and they made bad decisions because they're in an echo chamber of bad thoughts". Because "bad thoughts" alone don't make someone do terrible things. Choices have consequences. And, well, since you have basically admitted to not paying attention to politics, I think you're best not participating here until you educate yourself on everything that has happened in the past four years instead of just reacting on impulse. I'm almost certain that you will be eviscerated if you continue this line when you don't even seem to be fully aware of all that people are upset about. EDIT: @Dr. Tarrasque, I get what you're saying. I really do. And yet, Dragoncat seems to be coming from an area where she is not fully informed on the matters and is reacting on gut instinct, an emotional reaction more than logic. Coming into a discussion uninformed like that is not going to do her any favors. Better for her to know that now, or people will dog pile on her for not doing research and speaking only from emotion. Edited January 8, 2021 by Sunwoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysta Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 1 minute ago, Dr. Tarrasque said: You guys aren't exactly helping. I understand the frustration with seeing the "both sides" talk but when it looks like y'all are just ganging up on one person when they're trying to say remember the not every Republican is a piece of shit, you're doing more harm and giving evidence for the actually shitty Republicans to work with and get more people on their side. You really don't have to defend the person who voluntarily compared BLM to yesterday's insurrectionists. You really, really don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryhard Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Dragoncat said: There are Republicans who are not these people we speak of. Source: My mother. She is a lovely lady. And most of the state of Wyoming. If I don't get to say that Biden supporters may have possibly pulled this, then you guys don't get to say that all Republicans are the same as these idiots. I will accept that agent provocateurs can sometimes exist. If you read the history of the CIA you'll know that is undeniable. But - a lot of those front and center in the footage have already been identified as MAGA types. The viking larper who's actually a Christian is a QAnon conspiracist (he also claims to be a shaman and a spiritual healer), several folks in there were already identified as far-right types and other content creators that are openly far-right like Nick Fuentes and Baked Alaska were there. If it looks like a duck... you know, because they don't believe in wearing masks, which might have helped people not identify them so easily Edited January 8, 2021 by Tryhard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 Just now, Dr. Tarrasque said: You guys aren't exactly helping. I understand the frustration with seeing the "both sides" talk but when it looks like y'all are just ganging up on one person when they're trying to say remember the not every Republican is a piece of shit, you're doing more harm and giving evidence for the actually shitty Republicans to work with and get more people on their side. I absolutely want to see the Republican party be destroyed thanks to the bullshit that has come from the Trump presidency but there's only 2 viable parties for people to choose and if what they can gather more from people who vote Democratic is memories of them being bullied, you're handing votes over to the side you want to destroy. I'm not going to support "both sides" after supporters of one party laid a potential opening act to a civil war. I don't care which side the "both sides" are coming from - the sides are clearly not equal. To state otherwise is dishonest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 Okay guys, stop blowing up my notifications, I am leaving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Dragoncat said: There are Republicans who are not these people we speak of. Source: My mother. She is a lovely lady. And most of the state of Wyoming. If I don't get to say that Biden supporters may have possibly pulled this, then you guys don't get to say that all Republicans are the same as these idiots. I understand what you are trying to say, that we should not condemn everyone. Which there is a good point here. However, let me provide a little history lesson.: Back in the 1950s, the United States feared Communism as its great radical political threat. We didn't fear Nazis back then, we didn't fear radical Islamic terrorists with suicide vests. Why? For the Nazis, they had been defeated during WWII, the threat they posed was buried. For radical Islamists, they hadn't arisen yet as the threat, it wasn't until the late 1970s that they entered the world stage. The Soviet Union collapses in the late 1980s and early 1990s. Communist ceases to be a major threat. In 2001, 9/11 happens, the Islamic terrorist threat that had emerged back in 1970s now proved themselves a real threat to the United States itself, not just its embassy over in Iran. The tides of political extremism change, not all groups are equally powerful at once when you examine the reputable evidence. Communism was once a threat, it fell, Nazism was once a threat to America, but then it fell. Yet the radical non-Islamic right in America has resurrected, and it has been gaining strength at a greater pace than the far left. One day, the radical left might be the biggest threat again, but it is not at this time. Edited January 8, 2021 by Interdimensional Observer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysta Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 I hope you're not telling us to stop posting versus you just unfollowing the topic lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 Just now, Crysta said: I hope you're not telling us to stop posting versus you just unfollowing the topic lol I'm not following the topic, I keep getting quoted. Is there a way to stop quotes from a topic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clear World Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 (edited) While you still get notification, yes, people on both sides can do terrible things, but maybe you should really look into what they are fighting for before instantly saying they are equal. One on wants equality from decade of oppression and mistreatment that still happens to this day The other seemingly believes in a lie. People are way more lenient for causes that seems more just. Edited January 8, 2021 by Clear World Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysta Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Dragoncat said: I'm not following the topic, I keep getting quoted. Is there a way to stop quotes from a topic? Notification settings under 'Options' EDIT: If it helps - Edited January 8, 2021 by Crysta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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