Jump to content
Ansem

General US Politics

Recommended Posts

21 minutes ago, joevar said:

this tbh. but its not like USA is a charity nation that really care outside their own problem unless theres benefit to it just like any other big nation

Pretty much this. Hong Kong is a far richer and far more strategic global position than wasteland west China Uighur territory. Like how many people even knew Uighur's were a thing before they started getting killed?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Clear World said:

EDIT: Frick, I forgot to include NET Neutrality.

You're probably forgetting a lot more, but I don't blame you.  This administration has been a three-ring circus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

getting banned from twitter probably unironically hurts trump more than losing the presidency.

how did it get to this point. i don't understand how anyone can take him seriously especially after hearing him talk. he's like a cartoon character to me and pretty much anyone around here thinks the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I normally really prefer to lurk, especially on stuff that can get as heated as politics, but I really don't know what's going on anymore. How did we go from moderately unstable (more or less) to people storming their own capital? 

It's just surreal and I don't even know how to vocalize what's actually happening at this point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How late into the night do you think they'll keep trying with these alt accounts?

Somewhat related, apparently tens of thousands of twitter accounts have disappeared in the last 24 hours, at least according to right wing pundits that saw equally large drops in their follower counts. Not banned, just deleted by their owners. Apparently these guys are really freaked about getting on some kind of FBI watchlist. Twitter dot com is really clearing the drainage pipes without really trying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Lord Raven said:

If you all want to laugh.

Last thing at dragoncat before I take it to DM: I don't defend my friend's character unless they understand the fucked up shit they did, why it's fucked up, how they plan to make amends and then make attempts to figure it out.

...Mike fucking Tracey...

I went to college with Mike Tracey.

We were actually friends for a while—we were in the same political science classes and hung out with the same crowd. Debated him. Partied with him. Worked on some projects with him. Bought weed from him a few times.

I could tell you stories about what a complete piece of shit he turned out to be. Why no one else from TCNJ still talks to him. And why you should never listen to a word he says.

(what do you wanna hear first? The story about the time he got arrested at the Anne Coulter rally? The story about the time he got arrested at the frat house? The story about the time he faked a police brutality incident and almost started a campus riot? The story about the time he recorded our private conversations without telling me just to get a juicy tabloid for the school paper?)

Mike Tracey is every single negative stereotype you can imagine of the snooty rich white liberal pseudo-intellectual hipster who thinks hes god’s gift to the world because he went to a gay rights protest one time.

But just walks around acting like an entitled asshole.

 

Edited by Shoblongoo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

How late into the night do you think they'll keep trying with these alt accounts?

Presidential whack-a-mole! I like it! But don't worry, it won't go on for too long, things like Twitch and a shopping social media app have preemptively banned him if he tries to go for them instead.

 

12 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

Somewhat related, apparently tens of thousands of twitter accounts have disappeared in the last 24 hours, at least according to right wing pundits that saw equally large drops in their follower counts. Not banned, just deleted by their owners. Apparently these guys are really freaked about getting on some kind of FBI watchlist. Twitter dot com is really clearing the drainage pipes without really trying.

Let's be honest, if/when a more competent autocrat were to/does take office, we'll be asking Eclipse to cremate this topic and any other where we may have politicked. Or to at least bury it six feet under in a park located three cities away from her house until the sun of freedom rises again, then it shall be dug up to show that we on record for posterity stood opposed to the eternal night.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Tryhard said:

getting banned from twitter probably unironically hurts trump more than losing the presidency.

how did it get to this point. i don't understand how anyone can take him seriously especially after hearing him talk. he's like a cartoon character to me and pretty much anyone around here thinks the same.

People not taking him seriously or downplaying what he was saying or doing for so long plays a big part.  He isn't a child, he is the sitting president of the US.  Yet his crazy tweets and retweets, ad blitzes of nazi symbols, all his hateful rhetoric about Democrats destroying America and painting himself as the greatest and a hero.  It was mostly laughed off, particularly by GOP.  

"There will be a peaceful transfer of power like there always has been"  Seems like that has been broken for the first time ever, Mr. Mcconnell.  Mitch is like Hannibal Lector you have to admire his incredible intellect and ability at political strategy, but he is evil.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These last few months have been a little cathartic. Trump's been systematically dismantled as a president, as a person, and he's brought the GOP down with him.

It's a shame I can't fucking enjoy it, because his stupid goons are trying to take over the country and are killing people(Mostly themselves so far, but still).

EDIT: Also Trump finally conceded. Thank god.

Edited by Slumber

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

...Mike fucking Tracey...

I went to college with Mike Tracey.

We were actually friends for a while—we were in the same political science classes and hung out with the same crowd. Debated him. Partied with him. Worked on some projects with him. Bought weed from him a few times.

I could tell you stories about what a complete piece of shit he turned out to be. Why no one else from TCNJ still talks to him. And why you should never listen to a word he says.

(what do you wanna hear first? The story about the time he got arrested at the Anne Coulter rally? The story about the time he got arrested at the frat house? The story about the time he faked a police brutality incident and almost started a campus riot? The story about the time he recorded our private conversations without telling me just to get a juicy tabloid for the school paper?)

Mike Tracey is every single negative stereotype you can imagine of the snooty rich white liberal pseudo-intellectual hipster who thinks hes god’s gift to the world because he went to a gay rights protest one time.

But just walks around acting like an entitled asshole.

 

That's hilarious. How did he fall to the alt right???? Did I read this tweet correctly??? I posted that tweet because it sounded genuine.

Edited by Lord Raven

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Slumber said:

EDIT: Also Trump finally conceded. Thank god.

Civil war's cancelled guys. Everyone go home. Maybe next election.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not so fun fact that, which I can’t remember if it was posted here: Trump tweeted out that he wouldn’t be going to the inauguration before he was suspended.

That’s not a good sign at all....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Lord Raven said:

That's hilarious. How did he fall to the alt right???? Did I read this tweet correctly??? I posted that tweet because it sounded genuine.

Back when I first met Mike Tracey in late 2007/Early 2008, he was the first prominent student democrat on campus to break away from Team Hillary and endorse Barack Obama for the 2008 democratic primary.

Just to give you an idea of what his politics were before he started cultivating his social media persona.

What happened to him???

Well he always was obsessed with becoming a big-name pundit and trying to make a name for himself and was willing to do—very dishonest, very shady things to get his name in the papers or his face on TV.

...general concensus among people who knew him before he “made it”...

He realized  the quickest way to get famous was to start making low-effort alt-right shitposts and become a professional provocateur.

And he just sorta—sold out.

 

 

Edited by Shoblongoo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Tryhard said:

how did it get to this point. i don't understand how anyone can take him seriously especially after hearing him talk. he's like a cartoon character to me and pretty much anyone around here thinks the same.

11 hours ago, Bluestorm said:

I normally really prefer to lurk, especially on stuff that can get as heated as politics, but I really don't know what's going on anymore. How did we go from moderately unstable (more or less) to people storming their own capital? 

It's just surreal and I don't even know how to vocalize what's actually happening at this point.

I would be of remiss if I didn't want to tackle this question in full.

We have to understand, a lot of these conversate are acting rational but with a completely different set of information and core beliefs. So first, we need the groundworks on why they became the way they are (ignoring those that are outright racist, bigots, nazi-lovers, and white supremacist *cough* i mean white nationalist as they only make the core of the movement but not the masses who choose to support them.) Also to note: They aren't a monolith, so everything here are common patterns I see and hear, but not all share all these traits or to the same degree. Also some may sound like they contradict each other, but might not actually be due to priorities.

  • They hold a strong principle to the first amendment (to most amendments to be frank). Any slight against speech is basically a deal breaker to them. They will defend any person regardless of what is said, unless it is outright obvious with clear intent to do harm. Meaning, claiming is a joke is very acceptable. Unless the word is 'Nigger' because they "understand" racism. Context of usage and the impact it has people doesn't really matter. Also, the moderation of sites like Parlor, Twitter, and Facebook are like assault to the first amendment. 
  • Capitalisms and the free market are the golden gooses. This is how America became the dominate power it is today and no matter the cost or the reason, it must always stay this way. It is America. Any form of diverting from this path is usually viewed as dangerous as its heading towards a very slippery slope.
  • Race and other minority group issues aren't that important topics (except when they believe it's anti-white). This is not outright hate. It's more like, it doesn't make it to their list of concerns and many times leading to ignorance of it. 
  • They feel they are disfranchised by both parties. They hate BOTH democrat and republican. This needs to be clear. They are more like, independents who always chooses republican.
    • They really really hate democrats and leftist. This range from, they are puppets for communism/socialism/authoritarian/fascism to democrats breaking all their strong principles to the amendments (like taking guns away. Some do support gun control to a degree, but Dems will take it all away if given an inch on the topic). Also, Racial and identity politics is a negative. The point being, they won't even consider democrat as an option.
    • But Republican are also crap. They see a lot of the republican faults, including its deficient spending, favoritism towards the rich and large corporations, hypocrites how on government should function, and the lies they spew out to enrich & empower themselves. They just vote republican because its the only thing preventing democrats from making it worst. At least Republican are capitalist who want a unregulated free market. Also, any Republican who doesn't side with Trump is a RINO (Republican in name only).
    • The hate tends to be more targeted towards the older & more established politicians. Still, newer & younger politician can still be targeted.
    • They do seem to support senate term limits and some type of government reform (I'm just not really sure what that would actually be
  • Big tech, mass media, billionaires, leftist, and the establishment are the problem. They will use their massive influence to lie and silence anyone who can threaten their narrative and their pockets. Also, big tech and mass media either works with or controls democrats. Not really much with Republicans. They seem aware that the rich does abuse almost everyone below them, including them. I'm not positive if they on average lean for or against going after the the rich though. Also, the establishment sort of encompass most, if not all of this.(It's unclear and varies based on the degree of the conspiracy theory)
  • Federal government is bad. Period. They should not be the one who control things. It really doesn't matter if it is the actual case, but the fed is the wrong choice because they suck, they are slow, restrict innovation and growth, and/or the freedom of choice & a free market can do it better. If government must step in, it should only be done through the state level. The state level is usually excluded in this hate. This is also plays a large role in why the Dems are terrible.
    • The degree of how bad this is, is really sad and scary. I was reading a long thread on conservative reddit about how bad Net Neutrality if reinstated, but yet everyone who argue against having Net Neutrality didn't seem to actually know how the federal government would control the internet through Net Neutrality. They would only insist it would be the case, and then when asked how, didn't provide an answer but would continue to argue.
  • Propaganda & echo chambers. The echo chambers created by website's algorithms from like Facebook or Twitter, the propaganda from like news outlet like Fox or all those right-wing youtube influencers, the wide array of right-wing talk show hosts, including the likes of Alex Jones, and lastly but not least, extremists like the Proud Boys and conspiracy theorist of Qanon, has created a cycle to both convert and amplify a lot of these mindset. A decent part of the effectiveness is that it reaffirm a belief they already want and/or provides simple answers to way more complicated issues.

And with this framework (a hypothesis by me at best who spend a lot of time at this right-wing hemisphere), let's get to Trump. I won't personally go into detail myself, but I did find this post in conservative reddit that talks about Trump and I think this gives a strong insight in why these people rally behind Trump and what they choose to believe in. Link provided if you want to look at the entire thread yourself.

Reddit - Tucker Carlson: "The People who Run the Republican Party Don't Really Like their Own Votes" But Trump Did

Quote
Quote

But the fact is he’s the first person to not condescend and manipulate and lie to the working class in god knows how long.

There are much better, more ethical, more dignified men and women out there who could fill the gaping void of giving-a-shit for everyday Americans, that will be left when Trump leaves office and potentially leaves politics. I hope they step up. I hope the old richy-rich GOP is dead.

It is sure nice to think that this is true but you would be wrong. No one with any of those traits wants the job. Trump was an anomaly because his agenda, while selfish, was not possible without giving a shit for everyday americans. He certainly did not care about the power of the position as proven by how many times he went against the tide that would have given him that power. He did not care about using the position to make money, contrary to what the media would have you believe as proven by how loudly he and his family trampled through the MSM headlines and how little time those headlines spent on that topic. At the end of the day it did not really matter if Trump was on the side of the people by design or by fluke because he earned his loyalty by never wavering from his convictions. A politician who cannot be bought or who will not be transformed by power is a rare thing. Trump was both of these, for better or worse. Trump did not have a social agenda, he had a "how do I make it easier to make money in this country again?" agenda and he wanted to make sure that as many people as possible could benefit from that because he knew that more money for you meant more money for him. Trump has been the same person for as many years has he has been making headlines and it is that consistency that makes the people trust him.

Take it as you may, but I think this is a view overlaps a lot of many conservative views towards Trump. Though there may be faults, a lot of it can be overlooked, or outright ignored, or they are just unaware due to the right-wing media. 

This is how you get people viewing him like a real-life version of Captain America or Rambo. A true hero fighting for them and taking on the world. This is why they are so willing to believe the election was stolen and why they are so willing to act in such a manner. Because for them. This isn't just a lost for Trump or for the Republican party or for the Confederacy. This may be their final chance to stand up against the establishment because once the dem takes over, they are fully aware that there will be reckoning aimed straight at Trump and all his allies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, joevar said:

this tbh. but its not like USA is a charity nation that really care outside their own problem unless theres benefit to it just like any other big nation

Our idealized national mythos is that America IS a charity nation trying to do good and spreading democracy throughout the world. At least that is what my parents and society at large installed in me on what to expect from America when I grew up. In some ways, America made some surprisingly responsible decisions during that time to back that perception up. If we just look at how we treated Arab collaborators and Kurds right now compared to how we treated South East Asians thirty to forty years ago, the contrast is horrifyingly stark. A lot of my friends are from families that have roots from South East Asia, and after the Vietnam War, America did try to evacuate a lot of my friend's parents and family from South East Asia and settle them here due to their contribution to the war effort over there. Obviously, there was hesitation due to racism in allowing so many immigrants to settle in America at that time, but despite that hesitation, America ultimately went through with it and absorbed a significant number of refugees. Because of that decision, my group of friends and I are the only people we know to be blessed with being able to count the number of close friends we have with all ten fingers; many people cannot even count with half the fingers on one hand. If America turned her back on her allies back then, my group of friends would dwindle to like maybe two or three other people, as many of their families would not have come here and my friends would not be born here. If I was Arabic and most of my friends are from the Middle East, there is a fat chance I am going to be blessed with the number of close friends that I have now, and God have mercy if I lost the lottery and was born in Iraq as a girl only to be captured by terrorists.

Desert Storm, Black Hawk Down, and NATO intervention in the Balkans during the period I grew up also heavily contributed to that mythos. As cheesy and naive as it sounds, my parents and society was kind of marketing America as if it were the Order of Heroes reaching across time and space saving each and every world (or at least tried to in the case of Somalia).

What little comfort I can find from being laughed at by our adversaries is the fact that America survived a mob breaking into the Capitol, and as humiliating as having that absolutely disgusting and beyond filthy Confederate flag inside the Capitol is, survival rather than embarrassment would be our adversaries' top concern if the Kremlin or Forbidden City was stormed. Not only is America fully intact with practically no sign of economic disruption, at worse, the nation is just in heavy psychological shock, the material damage is going to come out of our tax dollars, and the only people who died were traitors who committed treason and attacked the United States. Despite having the presidency crippled by utter incompetence, with half of our politicians undermining the country and half of our population supporting those efforts, we are still standing today.

Hopefully with Biden in charge, we can bring back America to its senses and fulfill her duties.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, XRay said:

(it's long and worth the read, go read it)

Now back up further.  America has its own share of racial fuck-ups in the past.  It doesn't matter what we try to project - if we can't admit to the fact that America's response to other races has been horrifyingly BAD throughout history, there's no way in hell we can hope to go forward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Bluestorm said:

I normally really prefer to lurk, especially on stuff that can get as heated as politics, but I really don't know what's going on anymore. How did we go from moderately unstable (more or less) to people storming their own capital? 

It's just surreal and I don't even know how to vocalize what's actually happening at this point.

I also like to lurk, occasionally voice an opinion, go back to lurking, and the cycle continues. I'm with you on that one. 

But yeah, it really feels like the U.S. did a complete 180 overnight. Both political parties have their merits and faults, a statement that I guarantee will be misconstrued in some way, and there are so many things that are blown out of proportion. Everything will eventually simmer down to a more stable degree, but it's prolly gonna be a while before we get there, especially with how many people are giving their opinions on the matter. People are gonna disagree with each other, that's just how it rolls in politics (it's why we have political parties, so people can join a side that they most align with and fight each other to the metaphorical death), but I think that there's a fine line between having rational discourse and attacking another person for what they believe in when in a civil environment. Granted, what some people believe in or follow may be a little, uh... out there, to put it politely... and there's more to it than that since there are so many different factors, but that's sort of the gist... and then there are the things that people do that make you think, "wtf, why would anyone do that," and then you find out that pretty much almost everyone else is with you on that front.

It's definitely good to stay as far away from politics as you can, but it's also good to stay informed. Politics are so viciously polarizing, and it's what makes it so difficult to put thoughts together, especially if you don't want to offend or tick someone off, which you will most certainly inevitably do without meaning to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Now back up further.  America has its own share of racial fuck-ups in the past.  It doesn't matter what we try to project - if we can't admit to the fact that America's response to other races has been horrifyingly BAD throughout history, there's no way in hell we can hope to go forward.

Yeah, just seeing how the cops handled BLM and Trump rioters makes me pissed, especially with how stark the contrast is. As a minority, the realization that I am treated differently compared to my black neighbors and countrymen solely because of my skin tone is kind of horrifying when you really think about it. If Asians were a shade darker, instead of having to pay that speeding ticket I got a few years ago, would I be paying extra medical bills for having my ass beat by the police? Or worse, would I have to be the one to cry mama and squeal "I cannot breathe"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, XRay said:

Yeah, just seeing how the cops handled BLM and Trump rioters makes me pissed, especially with how stark the contrast is. As a minority, the realization that I am treated differently compared to my black neighbors and countrymen solely because of my skin tone is kind of horrifying when you really think about it. If Asians were a shade darker, instead of having to pay that speeding ticket I got a few years ago, would I be paying extra medical bills for having my ass beat by the police? Or worse, would I have to be the one to cry mama and squeal "I cannot breathe"?

Uh. . .if you think BLM is the height of bad racial relations, it's pretty damn tame compared to the skeletons in America's closet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Uh. . .if you think BLM is the height of bad racial relations, it's pretty damn tame compared to the skeletons in America's closet.

I agree slavery and segregation are definitely worse, but I have not directly experienced them and I am glad that many of us do not have to. It is just chilling to realize how lucky some of us are solely based on the color of our skin, and if we are darker, we would be a lot more miserable for no reason other than just skin color.

Edited by XRay

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, XRay said:

I agree slavery and segregation are definitely worse, but I have not directly experienced them and I am glad that many of us do not have to. It is just chilling to realize how lucky some of us are solely based on the color of our skin, and if we are darker, we would be a lot more miserable for no reason other than just skin color.

Okay, history lesson time.  Because it's clear that you only see black and white.

- Back when America was building towards what it is now, the various Native American tribes were killed off, shoved onto bits of land, and their children were forbidden from learning their own culture.  The effects are felt through this day.  I'm missing a ton of things here, but I haven't studied this in enough detail (if anyone wants to pile on the bullshit that the Native Americans were put through, feel free to do so).  It's no accident that the Navajo nation in Arizona more-or-less told Trump to take a hike!

- Hawaii was its own thing before it was a state (that's why we have a palace).  They were quite literally taken over.  The queen at the time realized that putting up a resistance would be an exercise in futility, and surrendered.  What happened to them?  Once again, their children were divorced from their culture.  There's efforts to revive the Hawaiian language/culture, but it's slow going.  And do you know when the native Hawaiians got an official apology for that snafu?  When Clinton was in office.

- Imagine being forced out of your home without due process, forcibly relocated with your entire family, and then having everything you couldn't take with you sold.  While everyone that isn't your race throws around racial slurs.  That was America during World War 2.  It was only a stroke of luck that saved my family from that same fate.  There's some old Disney cartoons that reflect this!

- I'm sure there's other stories about other races being treated like crap in America for various reasons (the Irish come to mind for some reason).  And a LOT that I haven't mentioned, but alas, I used history as nap time.

In terms of racial relations, America has a lot to answer for.

Edited by eclipse

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Okay, history lesson time.  Because it's clear that you only see black and white.

Ah, okay, I see what you mean. I know that a lot of other minorities other than blacks also got treated like crap, but blacks experiencing injustice just popped into my head the most because it seems like they got the worst of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, XRay said:

Ah, okay, I see what you mean. I know that a lot of other minorities other than blacks also got treated like crap, but blacks experiencing injustice just popped into my head the most because it seems like they got the worst of it.

Not.  Even.  Close.  I'm voting the Native American population, since the goal of the Americans at the time was their complete and utter eradication.  They were stripped of their lands, identity, and lives - all under government approval.

But as long as America ignores that part of their history, I don't think we'll be able to address the current elephant in the room.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, eclipse said:

- I'm sure there's other stories about other races being treated like crap in America for various reasons (the Irish come to mind for some reason).  And a LOT that I haven't mentioned, but alas, I used history as nap time.

Well, in the case of the Irish, it wasn't so much about race. It was two other factors which were in play:

- They weren't Anglo

- They were Catholic

It's no wonder you had stuff like "Irish need no apply", or the Saint Patrick Battalion defectors. Race wasn't enough to avoid persecution.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...