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H5 Warpskipping LTC (completed in 55 turns)


  

32 members have voted

  1. 1. Who will get the most kills?

    • Marth
      7
    • Caeda
      15
    • Jagen
      5
    • Hardin
      5
  2. 2. Who will enter the most battles?

    • Marth
      14
    • Caeda
      10
    • Jagen
      5
    • Hardin
      3


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I still need to do some calculating, but I plan on Warp skipping in Ch10 till the end. Sure, some chapters Shiida will fly to the boss (I wonder if I should get the Boots for her, could cut 1 turn later on, but does cost a Warp), because its "cheaper" in Warp cost. Also recruiting Jake does seem like a nice thought. But maybe we can do with Beck too.

I do plan to visit the Hammerne village in Chapter 20. So no more Warp limits after. You should train someone for that chapter. Or get Wendell.

I think Nabarl will be the best for the job. Actually I think Hardin. But the three chapters in between should give him a "staff" edge. Still, Hardin gets a higher level, so can promote to gain staff exp.

No other units need to be trained but Shiida (especially her lowish strength and HP). Most units won't gain any EXP after ch10, so there isn't much that can be helped before. Maybe some good level ups on Cain/Abel early game. Or speed for Barst/Ogma. But nothing that matters much in the long run.

I think using the Warp staff to early is risky. I still all those maps and Marth is probably going to get murdered if you warp him with his Rapier. Sure, he can kill the boss. But then needs to do massive dodging. Also, he probably will be "locked" on this tile, if he doesn't ORKO his attackers.

We also get 24 units before ch17 if we don't "recruit" anyone. Still Castor can do some nice chipping in ch3. I also don't see the need to buy weapons. Maybe only the ch8 Wing Spear? Especially since you used it often in ch1 and possible in ch2 and more after.

Losing out on Tiki actually seems rather good. I'm sure we can just OHKO her in her chapter? Then we can just "fly through" ch7 and don't care about Bantu.

Edited by SSJDennis
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Since ruadath is rigging anyway, it shouldn't matter that Marth needs multiple dodges and 2-3 crits, as long as he faces sub-100 hit.

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Mmmmm still that would be a hell of a job XD Might also hurt Shiida, or not? We still need her to complete latter chapters in 1 turn. IF we keep 2 turning everything, it will eventually be 1 turn to much in some chapters. Can Marth also take Mannu on? Can Shiida? Or do we really need the Exalibur crit, like dondon does? Would a Thunder crit or Silver Lance crit also do the trick? Can Shiida fly there fast enough to do it with the Wing Spear?

I also believe that Ruadath wants to get less rigging later on. I can agree that it shouldn't be like this the entire playthrough :D But its really needed in chapter 1, 2 and 3 I guess.

How about try your trick and get Wendell in ch5? Can we still 4 turn it then? Or will we need Merric for that?

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I never talked about 2-turning everything. Just that it makes more sense to 2-turn C4, C6, C7, C8, C10, C11 and 1-turn C9 because using 2 warps each map would result in the use only shaving one turn when each one can shave at least 3 each map.

C12 and past, the 1-warp clears (mostly still 2-turns) should be taken as a benchmark when planning and then you can figure out where it's the most resource-efficient to invest extra warps for 1-turn clears. Just avoid using double warp on any of the pre-C12 maps.

Edited by Gradivus.
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Since ruadath is rigging anyway, it shouldn't matter that Marth needs multiple dodges and 2-3 crits, as long as he faces sub-100 hit.

I'm trying to avoid rigging as much as possible, however. Speaking of which, Chapter 2 is now completed in 4 turns, although I don't have the video quite yet.

I restarted to make the chapter more reliable so that Ogma doesn't murder everything with lucky criticals; however, I still need Ogma to dodge a few attacks (I think 1 each enemy phase), Marth to get a rapier crit, and of course, Jagen to crit kill the boss. Other than that the strategy is reasonably reliable, with no one besides Ogma ever being in danger of getting killed (and he has a pretty good chance of survival each time).

Just watched Chapter 1, that was pretty ridiculous. Can you turn up the movement speed of units on the map for future videos though?

Sure thing, but probably not for Chapter 2, as I don't know if that affects the RNG and I don't want to redo the planning that I've got done.

And I hope by ridiculous, you mean good, right? ;):

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I should also perhaps note that the strategy for the 4-turn is reliable for 0% growths as well:

Caeda's extra Str is used only in 2 places, saving a Silver Lance use from Jeigan (at the cost of a Javelin), and one-shotting an injured cav with Wing Spear (which she could have done in 2 hits otherwise); she doesn't ever take damage on the playthrough, so she would be perfectly fine with taking damage in the counter.

Cain's attacks two enemies and just barely kills them thanks to his extra Str. However, one of them could be worked around by having Gordin aid him with the Steel Bow instead of the Iron Bow, and the other attack (Cain and Barst) could be reinforced by Castor at the cost of Ogma having to dodge one more attack (he needs to double with the Iron Sword instead of a Castor + Steel Sword kill like I use in the playthrough)

Would you guys be interested in me recording zero growths playthroughs as well?

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With regards to Chapter 3, I think it will be likely that I will have to forgo picking up Nabarl (and his killing edge) to clear in 5 turns. The reason is that nobody (besides Marth) but Jagen, the cavs, and Caeda can reach the boss by turn 5, and all but Caeda will get doubled and killed. Despite his Str proc, Jagen can't kill Reynard with a Silver Lance crit, so someone needs to chip at him first. With her HP and Def proc, I think Caeda (barely) survives a round of combat with him and can do the necessary damage, but that means she has to rush toward the boss and can't chase after Nabarl first.

EDIT: Actually, maybe not! Thanks to not picking up Darros and Wrys, my starting formation is different from the one given in fewod; in particular Ogma starts a bit ahead of Marth instead of behind him, meaning he can actually reach the boss in 5 turns. So as long as I can get him there relatively unharmed, I should be OK with letting Caeda recruit Nabarl. It would be even nicer if I could trade chain the Killing Edge to Ogma like dondon does in his playthrough, but that might be pushing the limits of feasibility.

Edited by ruadath
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> ogma needs to dodge an attack every phase for the first 4 phases

uh yeah that doesn't sound very reliable to me lol

I meant "as reliable" -- and given that Ogma has pretty good Spd/Luck (and weapon triangle advantage), these aren't terrible odds. Obviously with two necessary criticals, the strategy isn't terribly reliable (although I suppose you could use the map save to rig Jagen's), but its not bad, and it's as good as I could make it.

You are right, however, a considerable portion of the strategy relies on certain key enemies not "rounding up" on Spd so that Ogma can double them. The first enemy also needs to have 31 HP if you want to conserve the Silver Lance, although that is obviously not essential.

So there has definitely been a drop in "reliability" since Chapter 1, but not by a huge margin.

Edited by ruadath
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I've been looking further ahead, and I don't see how one would go about 2-turning Chapter 4. While Marth with a forged Rapier can probably pull of a crit kill on the boss, there is no way he is going to survive attacks from all of the nearby cavs and the nomads! Unless you had something else in mind, Gradivus?

In fact, I see this being a problem with pretty much all of the potential 2-turn clears (at least pre-Chapter 12). Perhaps it would be best to just focus on 3/6 chapters for a bosskiller+marth warp and then do the rest of the chapters without warping? SSJDennis, what was your plan?

Edited by ruadath
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You always have the rest of the party to contribute.

I'm not sure what you mean to say by that, but certainly it prevents Gradivus' strategy of half-skipping every chapter from 4 to 11 (minus chapter 5), doesn't it? And it means that I'll have do some groundwork and calculate where it is most effective to use warps.

This also might make recruiting Merric/Wendell worthwhile for early fullskipping (not to mention the nice bonus of Excalibur).

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Also, does the fact that I'm not going to Marth solo the game mean that I should invest more in Abel? At the end of Chapter 2, I could have gotten him another kill (still have the savestate to do so) and he and his ability to use Javelin might prove useful for upcoming Chapters that aren't warpskipped, and getting him some Str to do addition damage might be worthwhile?

EDIT: I decided that I might as well, since the cost (1 Steel Axe use, 1 Iron Bow, and 1 Iron Sword) is worth it (10 EXP for Barst and Castor, 30 for Abel leaving him at 1.90)

Edited by ruadath
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Question for you guys (currently doing some warp allocation planning): Are there any chapters where having the Boots saves a turn or Warp use? Assuming I pick up the Master Seal in Chapter 12, I think I have strategy that gets the Boots as well, although perhaps at the cost of a Warp use.

Also, I know that Minerva and her eventually recruitable allies don't attack on Chapter 7, but what about the generic PKs/WKs near her?

Edited by ruadath
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Question for you guys (currently doing some warp allocation planning): Are there any chapters where having the Boots saves a turn or Warp use? Assuming I pick up the Master Seal in Chapter 12, I think I have strategy that gets the Boots as well, although perhaps at the cost of a Warp use.

I can answer the first question for myself: promoted Caeda with Boots achieves a 1-turn of Chapter 16 with just 1 warp use.

Can Marth attack after opening a chest? (I'm going to assume the answer is no, but there are some weird things about this game...)

Edited by ruadath
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I mean, if Marth can't kill everyone in chapter 2's 4-clear, and if he dies, you have other units take hits and kill enemies for him. Whether you train Marth you don't depends solely on how you allocate your warp usage - every map can be 2-turned by having Marth kill the boss, but you get plenty of Warp uses to go for fullskips, too.

I'm not sure if Abel is worth the investment. He doesn't fly or use the Wing Spear. I'd really have a clear idea what the Warp allocation and turn count expectations are like before I proceed to go choosing which characters to train and when.

Boots on a ballistician (just Jake at that point?) should allow you to 1-turn C12 with a single Warp based on dondon's comments about him being one tile away from attacking the boss. Whether you will have sufficient money for a ballista forge is another question altogether.

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Boots on a ballistician (just Jake at that point?) should allow you to 1-turn C12 with a single Warp based on dondon's comments about him being one tile away from attacking the boss. Whether you will have sufficient money for a ballista forge is another question altogether.

Skipping the Master Seal in Chapter 12 is a bad idea though... ( and I don't think you get the boots until Chapter 12)

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if you don't want to do extensive RNG abuse for enemy phases, you probably need different strats entirely, since a lot of the 2-turn solo strats in anything other than normal mode rely on heavy luck. It's not rare that enemies leave the boss area immediately though.

C4 -> 3 turns 1 warp would reduce the amount of dodges needed and nullify the need for EP crits (he faces 4 horseman attacks that 3HKO him and one cavalier that 2HKOes, so basically 3 bow dodges or 1 lance dodge + 2 bow dodges, they still pull 90 true or better though iirc)

C4 -> 4 turns 1 warp would allow you to wait until the cavaliers are away from the boss area entirely and the Horsemen can be baited through the river. I'm willing to bet that this can be survived reliably with AI manipulation and a good formation, and only the bosskill would end up needing a crit. It's a bit questionable in terms of worthwhileness.

C5 should probably still get 4-turned.

C6 is tricky since the boss area is full of enemies. Either go for the 6-turn or a more complicated 1-warp strat, resulting in 2 or 3 turns depending on how reliable you want/can get it to be.

2 turns might be possible like this: Gordin with a steel bow (maybe light forge, if necessary) stands at the wall that the mage and archer can attack through. One of these enemies double and 2HKO him, which makes the AI have them attack first. Gordin critblicks the enemy, though, so he survives that round of combat. Since he is almost dead, the other enemy will want to attack him too and he probably dies. Marth critblicks the boss on PP1 with forged Rapier, and on EP he needs to dodge either the Archer or the Knight that can attack him, standing on a pillar.

C7 should be reasonably doable in 3 turns, since the generic fliers leave the boss area right from the start. On PP2, Marth rapier crits the boss. EP, the reinforcements are prevented by the bosskill, so Marth needs to dodge one Javelin at most.

C8 can still be 2-turned since there are no enemies in the boss area that would make survival troublesome.

Dunno about C9.

C10 might be doable in 3 turns with 1 warp if you can manipulate the dracoknight + pegasus movement correctly. Can get the master seal for Shiida too. Maybe it doesn't work though, since Marth would still get attacked by a Peg Knight + thwomp and those enemies have really high accuracy.

C11 should still be doable in 2 turns.

@Espinosa the boots aren't obtained before C12.

Edited by Gradivus.
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Here's a tentative (quasi)-plan for the first Warp staff's allocation:

Chapter 4 - 4 turn halfskip w/ Merric (6/7 uses remaining), Jagen kills boss w/ Silver Lance crit

Chapter 5 - 4 turns w/ Wendell (recruit on turn 3)

Chapter 6 - 6 turns with as much treasure as possible

Chapter 7 - (I hear Bantu/Tiki is unnecessary) 1 or 2 turns warpskip (depending on whether or not Marth can survive after enemy attack (I might give him Seraph Robe; 4/7 or 5/7 uses left)

EDIT: use Gradivus strategy maybe and 3 turn with 1 warp use (4/7 uses)

Chapter 8 - 2 turn warpskip Marth (4/7 warp uses)

Chapter 9 - 1 turn Dracoknight Jagen crit kill with Javelin, then warpskip (3/7 uses)

Chapter 10 - 1 turn full warpskip (1/7 uses)

Chapter 11 - 1 turn warpskip (Jagen kills boss); alternatively 2 turns and its possible to still use 1 warp and recruit Jake (Jagen flies to visit Anna, Caeda kills boss w/ Javelin crit and second attack after talking to Jake)

Also note that:

Chapter 12 - 2 turns? kill thief with Warp staff (critical from Jagen w/ Javelin?), trade chain to Lena and warp Marth to open chest with Boots. Along the trade chain also warp Caeda to kill boss or something. If Jake is there have him kill boss on turn 2 instead, let Caeda take care of Master Seal cav. Something like this should work out.

What are your thoughts Gradivus?

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Jagen needs silver lance with +4 atk from base to critblick mannu, he can probably get A Lances and perhaps a str proc, so chances are you need a +2 forge at least and also a javelin crit from shiida if you don't recruit wendell. If you do, the pirate kill is reliable unless you can't afford reclassing Wendell to DK.

I'd still try to get a C6 2-turn or at least 3-turn. Marth on a pillar will have like 20-25 avoid, so you can probably rig a dodge. Not getting any treasure aside from the bullion is suboptimal but you can probably recover from that. The bullion is the most important one anyway, and there's a significant amount of weapons you don't need. Arena is a thing too, although it's tough.

Recruiting Merric in C4 without terrible reliability takes 5 turns or 2 warps.

Edited by Gradivus.
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Jagen needs silver lance with +4 atk from base to critblick mannu, he can probably get A Lances and perhaps a str proc, so chances are you need a +2 forge at least and also a javelin crit from shiida if you don't recruit wendell. If you do, the pirate kill is reliable unless you can't afford reclassing Wendell to DK.

Shoot, I didn't realize that the Firestone provided a Def boost. Why does recruiting Wendell help me here? Also, I don't think Caeda can reach the boss, so maybe this is not possible to 1 turn without Excalibur crit. But this leaves me short a warp use (even after taking the Marth solo 3 turn in Chapter 10)... so what is the other Chapter that doesn't get warped? Is it Chapter 4 (lowest turns saved, I think)?

Edited by ruadath
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Here's a tentative (quasi)-plan for the first Warp staff's allocation:

Chapter 4 - 4 turn halfskip w/ Merric (6/7 uses remaining), Jagen kills boss w/ Silver Lance crit

Chapter 5 - 4 turns w/ Wendell (recruit on turn 3)

Chapter 6 - 6 turns with as much treasure as possible

Chapter 7 - (I hear Bantu/Tiki is unnecessary) 1 or 2 turns warpskip (depending on whether or not Marth can survive after enemy attack (I might give him Seraph Robe; 4/7 or 5/7 uses left)

EDIT: use Gradivus strategy maybe and 3 turn with 1 warp use (4/7 uses)

Chapter 8 - 2 turn warpskip Marth (4/7 warp uses)

Chapter 9 - 1 turn Dracoknight Jagen crit kill with Javelin, then warpskip (3/7 uses)

Chapter 10 - 1 turn full warpskip (1/7 uses)

Chapter 11 - 1 turn warpskip (Jagen kills boss); alternatively 2 turns and its possible to still use 1 warp and recruit Jake (Jagen flies to visit Anna, Caeda kills boss w/ Javelin crit and second attack after talking to Jake)

Also note that:

Chapter 12 - 2 turns? kill thief with Warp staff (critical from Jagen w/ Javelin?), trade chain to Lena and warp Marth to open chest with Boots. Along the trade chain also warp Caeda to kill boss or something. If Jake is there have him kill boss on turn 2 instead, let Caeda take care of Master Seal cav. Something like this should work out.

What are your thoughts Gradivus?

4 turns WITH Merric? That seems VERY FAST to me. But if you can pull it off... 6/7 Warps.

I actually need to lose 1 Warp use in my setup. I thought about skipping Chapter 6 with two warps used. But maybe, just maybe, it can be done with a single Warp. No clue how much luck you will need to dodge both archers (or maybe one hit can be survived) and a mage. If possible, try to get it. 5/7Warps.

So...

Chapter 1, 5 turn.

Chapter 2, 4 turn.

Chapter 3, 5 turn.

Chapter 4, 4?!?! turn. 6/7 Warps.

Chapter 5, 4 turn. 6/7 Warps.

Chapter 6, warp Marth. Pray. Seize. 5/7 Warps.

Chapter 7, warp Marth to the boss. He should be able to dodge the knight with rather ease. But you will need a (forged) Rapier crit. 4/7 Warps.

Chapter 8 goes the same. Just warp Marth next to the boss and kill him. No other enemies around. 3/7 Warps.

Chapter 9, do like dondon does. Just run to the boss. But not recruit Jeorge. I think Marth can/should seize on the turn that Merric / Wendell crits. 3/7 Warps

Chapter 10, ignore the Master Seal! Only Shiida needs to promote in the entire run. So chapter 12 will do. 1/7 Warps.

Chapter 11, get to Anna? Is this possible on turn1? If so, do it. Fly there with Wendell. Fly to Jake and recruit. Fly to boss with Jagen and kill. Warp Marth. 0/7 Warps.

Chapter 12, do like dondon does. Crit kill boss with Jake. Warp Marth. 6/7 Warps.

Chapter 13, do like dondon does... (this gets boring XD) Crit kill boss with Astram. Warp Marth. 5/7 Warps.

Chapter 14, Warp Shiida, Warp Marth. 3/7 Warps.

Chapter 15, Fly Shiida over to the boss. Warp Marth. 2/7 Warps.

Chapter 16, Fly Shiida over to the boss. Warp Marth. 1/7 Warps.

Chapter 17, Warp a thief/Someone with key with full inventory to Warp chest. Warp to convoy. Retrieve Warp Shiida. Warp Marth. 5/7 Warps.

Chapter 17x, make Wendell / Jagen get the Warp staff. Warp Shiida, open the next room. Fly to boss, kill and Warp Marth. 11/14 Warps.

Chapter 18, Warp Shiida, Warp Marth. 9/14 Warps.

Chapter 19, Warp Shiida, Warp Marth. 7/14 Warps.

Chapter 20, Warp Marth to village. Get Hammerne. Warp a warper (not Lena) to Marth. Warp Marth back to safety. Warper gets killed after. Warp Shiida, Warp Marth. INF/INF Warps

Chapter 21, Warp Shiida, Warp Marth. INF/INF Warps.

Chapter 22, Warp Shiida, Warp Marth. INF/INF Warps.

Chapter 23, Warp Shiida, Warp Marth. INF/INF Warps.

Chapter 24, Warp someone to Aum staff. Warp Shiida, Warp Marth. INF/INF Warps.

Chapter 24x, Warp Shiida, Warp Marth. INF/INF Warps.

Final, warp Shiida. Crit kill manakete. Warp Nagi suicide. Warp Nagi again and win.

As you see, if you can just survive chapter 6 with a single warp.... That would make a 56 turn count clear O_O

You might want to train Shiida in a sword rank if you can. She might want to wield the Wyrmslayer at some stages to kill manakete bosses. As you can see, only Shiida will ever need to promote. So rigging stats on other units only helps early on... I'd say, forget about the boots. They give 1 turn, will they will cost you more. You can't lose out on a single warp and NOT lose a turn (or more) in return.

Edited by SSJDennis
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