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[Team If] Fire Emblem If Fanslation (All chapters and paralogues done)


Cellenseres
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So... you're basically taking for granted and implying that you are entitled to the work of the people with this patch.

You laud the cause, keep shitting on everything else, and yet have no semblance of appreciation.

Man, I feel so sorry that people who appreciate this patch and the people who work on it have you as their loudest voice.

Edited by shadowofchaos
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The actual setup is much simpler than that. A new team will be formed and will take members in the following days/weeks.

I suppose it's not necessary to host a dedicated website. I just really like the idea of a website dedicated to developing fanslation patches. A place to unite all fan translation teams and facilitate smoother project transitions between different teams. I think it'd be a nice change of pace from the current system of translation projects being scattered about. Because I have no experience with this sort of thing, I may be looking at this entirely wrong.

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So... you're basically taking for granted and implying that you are entitled to the work of the people with this patch.

You laud the cause, keep shitting on everything else, and yet have no semblance of appreciation.

Man, I feel so sorry that people who appreciate this patch and the people who work on it have you as their loudest voice.

That's one way to interpret what I said. But it's not the right one.

I (think) we used your fan patch for these:

http://i.imgur.com/psAdDwa.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/TXaabFN.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/UKXDkTO.png

http://i.imgur.com/1h2Oc9o.jpg

"Think" because these are not taken from a single source and maybe some others made their own patches, who knows...

Although, I don't know how exactly I am being entitled in taking readily free text for making comparisons or that I'm taking it for "granted". It's "granted" until you guys take off the patch, after all, it's free, right there, in the OP. You're telling me all these people that made these images (I didn't make any of those), should apologize and take them down?

Are you saying we should have asked for your permission first even though you're letting us download the patch for free? (thus, it's implied we can do as we please with it, especially after your team admin said that he doesn't care if someone else puts their name on it, so that means he wouldn't care for something "smaller" in comparison to that like using it for comparisons) Are you also telling me that making publicity for this patch is bad for you?

Secondly, you're trying to demonize me again (even though you started with a misinterpretation of my post a second time already) for whatever reason without actually explaining your reasoning in the slightest.

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If the creators of the patch are not happy about people weaponizing their work as ammo against the official localization and, by extension, localizations in general, they are free to do as they please and cease work on the patch. Likewise, if there are other reasons they do not feel the desire to complete the patch, they can just stop. As a free, community-driven project, there is nothing requiring that it be completed.

Just because there were people who were looking forward to it being completed does not entitle those people to the completed project, nor does it entitle them to complete transparency on the subject of why it was ceased.

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That's your assumption and supposedly the team's, not the truth. I've seen the typos and mistakes and I would have still played their fan translation regardless, that's because I have no issue understanding broken English.

That does not go for every fan, but every other fan would have waited whatever time was necessary for the team to finish their translation. E.g. .Hack is still being translated and the translation started in 2011, no significant group made a fuss.

Seriously, this can't be verified at all, that's how THEY FELT, not WHAT HAPPENED.

No, that's actually what happened. I'll give you a recap of what happened in a huge spoiler since it's actually long (feel free to correct me if I got something wrong).

[spoiler=What happened since patch 3.1]

After they finished the translating the story (at around end of January), people asked if they were going to do everything else and the team said yes, they were.

They got IK out, they got about 10% of supports and some My Castle/Amie lines translated.

Then a while later people started asking about the new update, to which the team replied with Soon™.

The team said this many times that progress had slowed to a crawl due to the team dealing with their own lives.

And I'm also pretty sure at this point everyone knew that they were a ragtag team, and that while others did keep asking about the next update, they were also content with not receiving an actual date/answer.

Everyone carried on and patiently waited until this point, where an argument with you and shadowofchaos ended up forcing the team to intervene and stop the argument.

While the team was intervening, they also decided to announce that, while they made notable progress, they're not going to release it and cease the translation.

Here's where the expectations blew way out of proportions:

When the team said that they made notable progress and that they weren't going to release it, that received some MAJOR backlash due to them suddenly dropping the translation and that they were quitting due to some "petty" reason.

And I'm not surprised they received this kind of backlash, because those who did lash out about it only read the more recent pages of this thread. Those who did knew that progress was slowing to a halt just simply asked for one last final patch release.

When you look at it like that, it looks like the backlash was inevitable. And it is, because the new people didn't know that there was little to no progress for a while, and they didn't read like 35-50 pages worth of support and questions (and not even the team expects you to read that far back).

That's the key part here, the fact that the new people were upset due to that "notable" progress not being made public.

... Even though that it turns out that the progress was mainly bug fixes.

And then people became even more upset because of the Team admin's "unpleasant" behaviour, when really he/she didn't want to sugarcoat their words and decided to be as blunt as possible to get the point across.

What happens next CLEARLY shows the difference in expectations, and that all boils down to whether or not a person has actually read all 90 pages of Support/Question/Progress.

I'll be comparing my expectations (I'm pretty sure this applies to a few others as well) with what I read in the previous few pages.

At first, I was expecting a full complete patch just like everyone else. But after they announced that they were dropping plans for translation, I just completely dropped my expectations for the team because I wasn't expecting them to release one final progress patch.

Other people, on the other hand, actually gave them shit for not releasing this final patch. They were saying that they weren't doing this for the fans, and that they should release the final update to avoid backlash. But the team kept telling them that they simply didn't care and they weren't going to release the patch.

Anyone who had read the Skype conversation from the Kotaku article knows that no member from the team did this project for the fans, but rather for their own interests.

And that's basically what happened.

So to answer your questions:

Did the huge popularity matter? Yes, it gave them a huge backlash, and basically gave the team a "bad name" due to people's expectations.

Did the popularity hamper their progress? Nope, they barely made progress in the first place.

How did popularity keep you back? It didn't. Everyone who kept up with this thread already knew that they were dealing with life in the first place.

Shouldn't you be happy that you have supportive fans and people that love your work? I can't answer that because I'm not part of the team.

EDIT: Oh. I got ninja'd. Oh well. I also think that I repeated myself many times in that spoiler, but oh well.

Edited by thedude28
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Until this is added into the OP, here is the final Team If (Division I) Patch Release.

It contains all of our Invisible Kingdom fixes. (This is a full patch. However, Invisible Kingdom will require custom .cia generation.)

DOWNLOAD LINK

--

Regarding what will become of the fan-translation, here it is:

A Discord was formed earlier, and a new team was formed. After some debate, the new members decided to split Team If into two divisions, and they would be Team If's Division II. In exchange, the existing Fan Translation infrastructure, meaning all the files and tools we have, will be transferred over to them. Team If Division I members (the original fanslation team) will help them get accustomed to the system and files. They will continue and finish the project.

If there is any controversy over remaining as a part of our team, know this: Every member on the team is new. They are fresh. And they want to work on this. I don't speak for them, and they will soon populate over this thread.

So in short: The fanslation was revived by a new set of around 15-20 people, who have decided to become a second division in our team. So it's not dead anymore.

Edited by luyairis
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So... you're basically taking for granted and implying that you are entitled to the work of the people with this patch.

You laud the cause, keep shitting on everything else, and yet have no semblance of appreciation.

Man, I feel so sorry that people who appreciate this patch and the people who work on it have you as their loudest voice.

Damn guys after reading some of the later posts I can see that you two are thinking about two completely different things..so let me try to explain what you two were trying to convey to each other

Chaos says he has a problem of people using the fan translation as personal attacks against the localization most likely those kids who go on hate spills about boycotts or some other crap.

-So pretty much -Does not like people using the fan translation as something negative as who would? -Like who would like it if someone was using something you translated for pure hate.

While

Immanoob is talking about how "they" were being used to compare the original Japanese text, to the NoA translation, to the fan translation in a neutral manner to display that the official translations ain't really that good and to most likely just spread awareness to the general masses who don't really know about these kinds of things...

HOW this misunderstanding got even deeper?

ImmaNoob the way you word things can be interpreted as uh "strong and harsh" and causes misunderstandings, in this case im referring to this line

""or are you saying that your translation was off-limits when making comparisons...?""

To you in may sound very docile but if you read it differently it sounds like something a typical teenage brat would say when being reprimanded for doing something bad.

Example

"Or WHAT? Did you WANT to waste more of MY time"....or in this case interpreted as "Huh!? are YOU saying I can NOT use the fan translation"

--------------

Its like hey yeah I know you added ...? which does denote a calm tone/(edit 2)A question but it can be easily misinterpreted so please try to rephrase the way you say things.

EDIT - also yo if you read fast like I was before.. completely didnt see the ....? part so is beary easy to misunderstands

Like yo it was pretty easy to see why both sides were getting irritated as I usually try to see things though the other persons perspective but yo it took me time to actually denote those messages and as this is the internet who rly got time to do that.

Edited by Sylph
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I'm just glad its not dead, I'm gonna try to ignore the ramblings here, because both sides are being childish at this point.
I'll be sure to check in once most of this gets sorted out. I got a spare 3ds ready, so i'll set it up and see if i can do some testing when the time comes.

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If the creators of the patch are not happy about people weaponizing their work as ammo against the official localization and, by extension, localizations in general, they are free to do as they please and cease work on the patch. Likewise, if there are other reasons they do not feel the desire to complete the patch, they can just stop. As a free, community-driven project, there is nothing requiring that it be completed.

Just because there were people who were looking forward to it being completed does not entitle those people to the completed project, nor does it entitle them to complete transparency on the subject of why it was ceased.

Pretty much this. Some people are so entitled.

Edited by Emmeryn
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So the storm has pretty much passed, but I'd kind of like to get a word in. Not to argue or whatever, but just because I haven't. [stuff that is edited in after the original post will be in [brackets].]

I'm a translator from the team, credited as "Master of Memes" in the original post. I don't post on this website often; I frequent others. I did a large portion of Hoshido (60%?), a few supports, some proofreading, and some My Castle lines before classes and work took over. Months ago, I could've promised pretty enthusiastically that I'd be willing to translate it all, even including supports and castle lines. But circumstances change in life, and it's a simple fact that I have not had the time nor the motivation to continue much. [Not to say that "I don't have time to translate," or even "I don't have time to translate on a large scale," but I don't want to spend my limited time on Fire Emblem 14 support conversations, and I feel like it won't be used enough to justify doing something that I don't want to do.] So uh, sorry I guess, to the people that were waiting for it. I remember I'd wait for a lot of different fan translations for stuff like visual novels and the wait was really lame. Hopefully the new group will be fast and efficient, and less bogged down with personal stuff.

I'd like to emphasize that I did not start doing this because of any hatred toward localizations, nor Fire Emblem's in specific. I did it because I love the game and I wanted some Japanese-reading practice, and there were a few people that genuinely seemed interested in playing the Japanese release. I'm not a FAN of the localization, and I feel like it could do better in a few areas, but that's as far as that goes. So anyway, I know not a single person cares about my opinion as a translator, but it's pretty shitty when people use this, as Jyosua put it, "ammo against the official localization and, by extension, localizations in general." It leads to a lot of misinformation about why we were doing this, and it leads to a disgusting amount of shit-flinging in places like the NeoGAF and the KotakuInAction and such. [i hope this doesn't come off as me pointing at people and trying to say "this is all their fault" -- it's more like further justification for me to say, "yeah, not really a good use of my time," and I don't doubt that you're all affable people in real life.] Even before whatever happened in this thread the past couple days, I've seen constant vitriol toward the group, toward people who play the localized version, toward people who are against the localized version, etc. And this is getting long and pointless but I did not enjoy seeing these kind of things as a result of something I tried to put honest work into -- and so I'd say this was part of the reason I lost motivation to work. I look forward to the Kotaku article that proceeds to make this even worse.

Plus leaving it at the three main routes being translated felt like a nice conclusion to me. I've never had any illusion in my mind that this would be the version the majority plays, and so I never really intended for this to be much more than a way for some people to play early. That's just me, though, I don't speak for the rest of the old group at all.

I think I had more to say and a decent conclusion, but it's lost now so I'll just edit this later if I think of anything. Good luck, new people, and if you need anything I can try to provide whatever limited help I can give.

p.s. to the people thinking to themselves, "wow why not just do Thracia instead of something [that was confirmed for localization]" -- I'd LOVE to do Thracia, but I don't have any hackers at my disposal, and I hear hacking the game is rather difficult so I don't want to burden anyone with that. Further, I feel people would prefer a consistent job from Project Naga between both games, instead of what would probably become a very stark contrast in both the dialogue and presentation of the game. And I also just don't want to step on their toes, if they want the glory from it or whatever.

Edited by sfthrowaway
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Until this is added into the OP, here is the final Team If (Division I) Patch Release.

--

Team If Division I members (the original fanslation team) will help them get accustomed to the system and files. They will continue and finish the project.

Thanks for the final release of Division I and for giving some help to the Division II. Despite what anyone may say or what your motivations were, the fact is that you did a lot of work on this patch and I just want to say I´m grateful for that. Also, best of luck to Division II with their work from now on.

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What I don't get is this, how do people like Rogue, who despite working in a corporation that has him constantly travel all over the world frequently manage to translate 3 extremely text-heavy games (H-games but games none the less) or AbsoluteZero who translated several Tales games (massive undertakings) alone while also having a job manage to get it done solo yet a TEAM with several people just ups and quits?

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What I don't get is this, how do people like Rogue, who despite working in a corporation that has him constantly travel all over the world frequently manage to translate 3 extremely text-heavy games (H-games but games none the less) or AbsoluteZero who translated several Tales games (massive undertakings) alone while also having a job manage to get it done solo yet a TEAM with several people just ups and quits?

Because, simply put, we're not them. We don't have the level of dedication they do.

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Ok.

And also, thanks to some web sources/gaming websites, there seems to be a misunderstanding with the amount of progress made.

They seem to think we only have several supports done.

We have all the three storylines and paralogues done. Supports are what remains, and that's been left to Division II.

Edited by luyairis
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Just ignore immahnoob. There's no reason to fight with him anymore.

In a change of heart, we WILL be releasing our final patch tonight. The only exception to that is those containing bugs that can crash your game.

The new team will take over from this point on. As always, if you'd like to join the new team (doesn't matter what your skills are), click on the link below:

https://discord.gg/0oqaIwQPmHZWe4P2

those this new team have a Topic or site i can follow ?

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I don't speak for everyone but I think the general consensus was that we'll keep it to this thread since people are already following this thread.

Maybe it would be a good idea to edit the first post to reflect the new situation then, like including the link to Division I final release and the explanation that the new team is in charge of finishing the supports.

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I have a personal problem with them, and didn't realize it until someone pointed it out to me.

Namely, using the team's work as a point to launch attacks against the localization.

And I know quoting their crap from outside the forum is outside the scope of the mods, so I'll just drop trying to get them to accept that the team doesn't share any of their extreme anti-localization views.

Each person of the team contributed for their own reasons, none of which included borderline hatred of the English script.

Thanks for the clariication, shadowofchaos. : ) Seeing some of the other posts gave me a better understanding of the situation too. Yes, my articles themselves were meant to be mere comparisons, though people have been attacking me as if I hate the localization now because some of the posts were used (with permission) for the #TorrentialDownpour thing xD...

It always saddens me looking around to seeing comments like the one on the Kotaku article that went live about this whole thing:

"okay I have a crazy idea

how about instead of “translating” a game that has been already made available in English, they work on the millions of titles that haven’t even had a partial translation done? I mean this just seems like a waste of time and talent."

Just as an example of such : ( I feel like a lot of the motivations, objectives, and everything are lost somewhere and its just assumed it is, as stated, out of some sort of odd hatred rather than any semblance of passion or simply as a hobby, or for fun. Sure, it may not make sense to others... but it feels a little harsh to jump on it like that.

I think what happens is people who dislike the localization praise the fan translation, which then gets people who like the localization to find every issue with teh fan translation, and just makes ...well a super hostile environment.

Kind of like (some) Pre-Awakening vs Awakening fans when the game came out. xD

Anyway, that's enough on that subject...

A big welcome to the new team! I look forward to the results, but please do not feel rushed or pressured. : ) I would have loved to join, but like many others, am pretty tied up in other translation and professional projects. Of course I'm always here to help now and then if you ever need me!

Edited by Kirokan
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Thank you so much for all your hard work on this, to both the original team and the new members.

I'm sorry I missed the discord last night, but I'd still really like to help if you need or want more people? I've only got a semester and a half of Japanese, so I'm not qualified to translate yet, but English editing is my forte, and having some familiarity with the source language can't hurt, right?

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