Is Counter still broken?

[PlayGaiden.EXE]

I didn't get the opportunity to test this scenario as I haven't found many enemies with Counter (at least before I read about this) and haven't acquired it myself, so I'm legitimately curious.

Here's how the skill is described on the Serenes Forest page:

''When an adjacent enemy triggers the battle and inflicts damage, the enemy receives the same damage''

Does this mean that:

-I will NOT take damage if I damage an adjacent enemy with Counter when the enemy triggered the battle?

-An adjacent enemy would NOT take damage from my own Counter if it damaged me when I triggered the battle?

Someone that's been through these scenarios or is able to test this, please let me know.

And a video would be handy if that's true.

[Psyruby]

Yes, it only triggers if the enemy starts the battle when you have counter now and vice versa. It makes counter 10x more balanced.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Psyruby

[PlayGaiden.EXE]

Well that's a relief. Guess that means I won't have to make a team of logbook Takumis to take on vast numbers of enemies with Counter... If that's still a thing.

Screw you, Awakening Lunatic+.

[Raybrand]

Screw you, Awakening Lunatic+.

ROFL

More than half my team in awakening was Assassins and Warriors.

[NinjaMonkey]

I take it since Magic Counter exists, that the regular version doesn't work against Tome users, right?

[Psyruby]

I take it since Magic Counter exists, that the regular version doesn't work against Tome users, right?

By the wording, they just have to be adjacent. Magic Counter is for Magic damage... which means if a Tome user attacks adjacent to you and you have both, you do double the damage they do. Sounds like something for Bow users.

[PlayGaiden.EXE]

ROFL

More than half my team in awakening was Assassins and Warriors.

I mean, bow-wielding classes are the way to go if we don't wanna worry about hordes of Counters... Equipping bows on the front lines is in any other case a generally unviable strategy x.x

Edited August 5, 2015 by ItzMeeMario

[Shadow Mir]

I mean, bow-wielding classes are the way to go if we don't wanna worry about hordes of Counters... Equipping bows on the front lines is in any other case a generally unviable strategy x.x

Yeah... if you ask me, being pigeonholed into an otherwise unviable strategy just to win is what I'd call overcentralization.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Levant Colthearts

[HeoandReo]

I'm pretty sure that kunai can also get pass Counter/Magic Counter, since along with bows, they aren't specified as weapons effected by either skill, and kunai are also 1-2 range.

My prediction: Kunai are going to become absolutely dominant in online play.

[Psyruby]

I'm pretty sure that kunai can also get pass Counter/Magic Counter, since along with bows, they aren't specified as weapons effected by either skill, and kunai are also 1-2 range.

My prediction: Kunai are going to become absolutely dominant in online play.

I'm pretty sure that's why only 4 classes can use Kunai. (Maids, Dread Fighters, Elite Ninja, and Puppeteer). And to be honest.... General(among other things) sort of eats all those classes. So they may be more balanced than they seem if you prepare for them.

[Raybrand]

I mean, bow-wielding classes are the way to go if we don't wanna worry about hordes of Counters... Equipping bows on the front lines is in any other case a generally unviable strategy x.x

I know, I had assassins and warriors because of their ability to wield bows and decent tanks in the front line (dodge tank and regular tank)

[Raybrand]

I'm pretty sure that kunai can also get pass Counter/Magic Counter, since along with bows, they aren't specified as weapons effected by either skill, and kunai are also 1-2 range.

My prediction: Kunai are going to become absolutely dominant in online play.

Im thinking Berserkers will be very common online due to their op stats, I've faced them in the campaign (up to chapter 14 Hoshido) they are beasts

[Tamarsamar]

Im thinking Berserkers will be very common online due to their op stats, I've faced them in the campaign (up to chapter 14 Hoshido) they are beasts

Really? I'm honestly not that impressed with Berserker's stats nearly as much as Basara's. In fact, a Tome-wielding Basara would probably eat a Berserker for breakfast!

Edited August 6, 2015 by Tamarsamar

[Psyruby]

Really? I'm honestly not that impressed with Berserker's stats nearly as much as Basara's. In fact, a Tome-wielding Basara would probably eat a Berserker for breakfast!

That's sort of hard to say really. Depending on the Basara set up, he might die. Like as a Berserker against a Basara, I would hold a Reverse Axe to bait either the Reverse Tome or a Lance. Then I would use either a Brave Axe or Brigand Axe. If the guy doesn't switch to a Reverse Tome or Lance, then he'll be a quite a disadvantage as you are denied your weapon bonus, then get a penalty based on S rank weapon triangle, and I get a bonus based on S rank weapon Triangle(along with my weapon bonus, which is huge), but if he does switch, then I can just completely murder him. The hardest part about playing against a Berserker 1v1 is the fact that it is hard to kill them in 1 or 2 shots. They just have so much **** HP, and they just do so much **** damage.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Psyruby

[goodperson707]

^^How so? I do think basara is stat wise pretty impressive but Besides the range issue berserker is only beat in def/res/lck and magic and the magic is kinda a moot point going by max stats Bezerker beats basara in the 3 Ss and bezerkers 40 str on basaras 30 def, is higher than basara's 30 mag on 25 res (and the only +3 mag 1st grn character with natural access to basara is orchi while 2 of the +3 have natural acesss to bezerker snd orchi has a spd and a def penalty bad things to have vs a berserker) plus axes have higher might on average than tomes as well as a higher weapon rank. And while a + 2 speed adavantage isn't big on it's own if you add anything like swallow strike or even a brigand axe into the eqaution it is a definite advantage.

Edited August 6, 2015 by goodperson707

[Psyruby]

^How so? I do think basara is stat wise pretty impressive but Besides the range issue berserker is only beat in def/res/lck and magic and the magic is kinda a moot point going by max stats Bezerker beats basara in the 3 Ss and bezerkers 40 str on basaras 30 def, is higher than basara's 30 mag on 25 res (and the only +3 mag 1st grn character with natural access to basara is orchi while 2 of the +3 have natural acesss to bezerker snd orchi has a spd and a def penalty bad things to have vs a berserker) plus axes have higher might on average than tomes as well as a higher weapon rank. And while a + 2 speed adavantage isn't big on it's own if you add anything like swallow strike or even a brigand axe into the eqaution it is a definite advantage.

My comment or his? Cause I was for the Berserker winning. I will say that if the Reverse Axe didn't exist, I would place a bet on the Basara. The Berserker is going to have an awful tough time beating a Basara with a tome(specifically Horse God) if he didn't have the Reverse Axe, as his weapon bonus would be taken away and he would incur an A rank weapon triangle penalty(which is -15 Hit). He would have quite the tough time hitting him then.

[Tamarsamar]

Reverse Club seems like a good defensive tactic, until the Basara walks up with a Brave Lance and destroys the Berserker with a Breaking Sky proc.

[Psyruby]

Reverse Club seems like a good defensive tactic, until the Basara walks up with a Brave Lance and destroys the Berserker with a Breaking Sky proc.

Uh... there is an issue here. First of all, either the Basara or the Berserker would have to walk into each other's range for the Basara to hit with the Brave Lance. So either, I've attacked first or I've made a huge mistake.

SECOND

Basara Brave Lance

(7(Mt)+31(Str)+2(Weapon Bonus)+2(Weapon Triangle Damage Bonus Doubled)-27)*2= 30 Damage. Even if Breaking Sky activated once, you'd still only do 50 Damage. You'd have to get Breaking Sky to activate twice.Which means you have a 36%(30 Skill * 1.5 + 15(Flamboyant))^2 % chance of killing the Berserker.

Berserker Brave Axe

(8+40+5(axefaire)+2+1-26(Brave Lance))*2=60 Which means he'd have to get another attack up skill to OHKO the Basara. And that's it... he just does it.

Which means in this situation the win ration is 64%:36% in the Berserker's favor. You could argue a lot of things, but the Basara has to expend more skill slots to have the advantage than he already is using. Which means the Berserker could also use his extra skill slots to defend.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Psyruby

[Tamarsamar]

Either way, both units will be using Copycat Puppet, so all I'm seeing is that it is a matter of who can attack whom first, a.k.a. rocket tag. This is where Tome access becomes a tactical advantage, and Basaras would probably be carrying Reverse Spells to get the jump on Lance-wielders, anyway.

[Psyruby]

Either way, both units will be using Copycat Puppet, so all I'm seeing is that it is a matter of who can attack whom first, a.k.a. rocket tag. This is where Tome access becomes a tactical advantage, and Basaras would probably be carrying Reverse Spells to get the jump on Lance-wielders, anyway.

Even if you had Copycat and Reverse Spell you wouldn't have the advantage.

Basara using Reverse Tome

30(Mag)+7(Weapon Mt)+1(B rank Weapon Bonus)+4(Quad Bonus for Weapon Triangle)-25 = 17.

Which means even if you did double Reverse Tome both activating Breaking Sky, you'd only do 60 damage(cause Breaking Sky would then look at my Magic score which is 25~ or less if I didn't care which I probably don't). So the only way this works is if the Berserker is in the range of both your copycat units, one using Brave Lance and the other using Reverse Tome. The odds are still in Berserker's favor cause he has more flexibility in which way he moves.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Psyruby

[PlayGaiden.EXE]

Damn. That opened up an interesting conversation.

B'sides, I like Berserkers. I usually see them as glass cannons, but I actually think they're quite broken in this game.

Boasting what's probably the highest physical power of all playable classes in addition to a crit bonus of TWENTY is quite ridiculous if you ask me.

I can't vouch judgment for PvP battles as I haven't experienced much in that department, but this class just got my attention even further.

Edited August 6, 2015 by ItzMeeMario

[Shadow Mir]

Damn. That opened up an interesting conversation.

B'sides, I like Berserkers. I usually see them as glass cannons, but I actually think they're quite broken in this game.

Boasting what's probably the highest physical power of all playable classes in addition to a crit bonus of TWENTY is quite ridiculous if you ask me.

I can't vouch judgment for PvP battles as I haven't experienced much in that department, but this class just got my attention even further.

I, on the other hand, am out-and-out unimpressed with Berserkers. A crit evade penalty, in a game where there are weapons that boost critical damage from triple to quadruple? What the fuck were they thinking?! And all I get for this is the ability to use a weapon that nerfs my offense to hell after using it? I'll pass, thank you very much.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Levant Colthearts

[Espinosa]

I think we should still ban it from FE14 Link Arena games tho

[astrophys]

Berserkers also get 40 STR and 33 SPD at caps… and while they are the most prone to being hit by a crit, they are also the most likely to get a crit.

[Shadow Mir]

Berserkers also get 40 STR and 33 SPD at caps… and while they are the most prone to being hit by a crit, they are also the most likely to get a crit.

Being the most prone to eating a critical hit is no bueno, no matter which way you slice it. I think crits are bad enough to be taking in games where the critical damage boost was triple damage, even if they weren't fatal (on the grounds that if they weren't outright kills, they could set an otherwise survivable attack up to be a fatal one).