Fire Emblem What If Scenario Thread. Q3 What if Chrom and friends never found Robin?

[Sentacotus]

I had an idea for a general FE thread and changing the topic regularly (about weekly or so) about speculating if things went differently at pivotal moments in the story of the various Fire Emblem games because its fun to speculate what would have happened at these moments. The first pivotal moment I had in mind was what if Greil survived in his first fight with the Black Knight and how this would have changed the Tellius Saga.

Q1:
For starters I think that Greil would realize after healing from his wounds that he was no match for the Black Knight since he could no longer use his sword arm and would double down on his efforts to train Ike realizing if anyone was going to beat the Black Knight it would be him. That being said he would still remain in charge of the Mercenaries. The positive of this would be that Ike would become much stronger and skilled at a faster rate than he did in the original story but wouldn't have developed so much leader since he was thrown into that situation so suddenly. Now one hitch I have is that I do think while Greil might have survived the first encounter with the Black Knight he would have eventually met his end at his hands since the Black Knight is encountered multiple times throughout the story and he would do anything to prevent Ike or Mist from having to fight him so soon even if it meant him knowing fighting a battle he could not win. If he did survive until the ending parts of the story where Ike originally fights him I do think he would let Ike fight him having trained him intensely in that time and believing he could beat the Black Knight.

Some other implications are the impacts this would have on the events Radiant Dawn with Griel still alive but aging would probably have handed off the responsibility of the Mercenaries to Ike. However, as events progressed he would be forced to explain who the Black Knight really was and the meaning behind Lehran's Medallion and reveal some of the more important parts of the setting much sooner. The story at this point could go in multiple directions with the Mercenaries either supporting the Laguz alliance like they did in the original story or being completely focused on preventing Ashera from awakening.

This is meant to be in good fun so feel free to post your thoughts about it all. Oh and lets try to refrain from Fates spoilers/ Fates scenarios since the game has yet to have a world wide release.

Q1: What if Griel survived against the Black Knight?
Q2: What if Zephiel was killed in FE7?

PM me your ideas and suggestions for what if scenarios in the Fire Emblem stories. Particulalry for FE 2, 4, and 5 as my knowledge of those games is sparse at best.

Edited August 21, 2015 by LordTaco42

[~Silver]

Question: Does Greil KILL the Black Knight?

[Tragonight]

Actually, I think if Greil survived the Black Knight, Ike would be weaker than he is now. He'd have less of a motivation for training with no thirst for vengeance, and the hardships he struggled, both emotionally and physically after Greil's death, is part of what makes him strong.

I think Greil would've still handed down the leadership position to Ike, since he did before he even fought the Black Knight. Except with his father still alive, Ike would probably go to him for advice and not try to do things on his own, like he was forced into during the plot. He has to make tougher decisions without his parents, and discover the secret of the Medallion himself, as well as taking care of it so it doesn't fall into the wrong hands.

This is interesting and I'd like to see what other people think too. I'd write more, but I'm on mobile right now.

[Jotari]

In all likelihood it actually would have made Ike weaker both physically and in terms of his leadership abilities. Most likely Path of Radiance would proceed the exact same way except with the more experienced Greil in the leadership role. However in Radiant Dawn most likely everyone would have lost since neither untrained Ike, or old (and possibly dead in some other way) Griel be strong enough to take down Ashera.

[Sentacotus]

Question: Does Greil KILL the Black Knight?

To be honest I don't see any way of that happening. With Greil unable to use his sword arm I don't see him able to go toe to toe with the Black Knight. He was losing pretty badly as is in the cutscene before he dies.

[Jotari]

Well we're talking about a What If? scenario so it can be whatever you want. The question could just easily be What if Greil Hadn't Cut the Tendons in his Sword Arm?

If Greil had managed to kill the Black Knight...I don't think it really would have changed much at all. The medallion would have stayed with Leanne but the only thing that affects is the fact that Ashnard could go berserk in the final battle. The proximity of the medallion to the conflict is irrelevant.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Jotari

[Sentacotus]

well we're talking about a What If? scenario so it can be whatever you want. The question could just easily be What if Greil Hadn't Cut the Tendons in his Sword Arm?

In that case yeah he'd probably still win against the Black Knight and stay alive unless some freak accident happened.

And probably accidently kill Ike in the tutorial chapter...

Edited August 8, 2015 by LordTaco42

[~Silver]

Well we're talking about a What If? scenario so it can be whatever you want. The question could just easily be What if Greil Hadn't Cut the Tendons in his Sword Arm?

If Greil had managed to kill the Black Knight...I don't think it really would have changed much at all. The medallion would have stayed with Leanne but the only thing that affects is the fact that Ashnard could go berserk in the final battle. The proximity of the medallion to the conflict is irrelevant.

Would Ashnard have his sparkly-sparkly impenetrable armor still, with the Black Knight dead?

[Tragonight]

I thought Mist had the medallion? And didn't Greil use a Trainer or some fake sword in the Prologue?

Also, food for thought: the Black Knight intended to kill Ike before dying Greil's very eyes. I think some beast Laguz, probably Caineghis, caused him to retreat. This directly contradicts the fact that RD Black Knight was all honorable and purposely kept Ike alive to face his "teacher" at full strength.

[Sentacotus]

I thought Mist had the medallion? And didn't Greil use a Trainer or some fake sword in the Prologue?

Also, food for thought: the Black Knight intended to kill Ike before dying Greil's very eyes. I think some beast Laguz, probably Caineghis, caused him to retreat. This directly contradicts the fact that RD Black Knight was all honorable and purposely kept Ike alive to face his "teacher" at full strength.

Yes Mist had the Medallion in PoR. Greil did use a trainer sword I was just making a joke.

Correct Caineghis was closing in on where Ike and Greil were which caused the BK to retreat. The part about the BK keeping Ike alive doesn't really apply until their battle in the castle where the BK finds out from Ike that his teacher wasn't going at full strength and had sliced his tendons.

[Tragonight]

The former was addressed to Jotari's statement, he said that Leanne had the Medallion.

I knew it was a joke but I'm still questioning how Greil could use a Trainer sword after cutting the tendons in his right arm. Then again, he still had the strength to throw Ragnell (no Awakening joke intended) at the Black Knight's feet.

Honestly, if the Black Knight was really as honorable as his RD counterpart, he should've refused to fight Greil entirely or left him to raise Ike to be stronger than him before killing Greil.

[Jotari]

Would Ashnard have his sparkly-sparkly impenetrable armor still, with the Black Knight dead?

That depends on when he gave it to him. On one hand he thanks him for it near the end of the game, but I'd lean on that more being a handy narrative way of introducing it. In all liklihood Ashnard seen the Black Knights armor not long after meeting him and said "Ooh gimmie. I want me some of that sweet stuff."

I thought Mist had the medallion? And didn't Greil use a Trainer or some fake sword in the Prologue?

Also, food for thought: the Black Knight intended to kill Ike before dying Greil's very eyes. I think some beast Laguz, probably Caineghis, caused him to retreat. This directly contradicts the fact that RD Black Knight was all honorable and purposely kept Ike alive to face his "teacher" at full strength.

Mist had the medallion during the game and before. Nasir steals it from her at some point. My memory was faulty, he didn't go to Phoenicis to get the medallion, he did it to kidnap Leanne and then she gets rescued from Izuka's tower by Naesala. So that would have actually changed even less since Ashnard still could have gone berserk and Leanne's kidnapping didn't really affect much at all thanks to Naesala. Probably meant Tibran wouldn't have showed up for the final battle though.

The former was addressed to Jotari's statement, he said that Leanne had the Medallion.

I knew it was a joke but I'm still questioning how Greil could use a Trainer sword after cutting the tendons in his right arm. Then again, he still had the strength to throw Ragnell (no Awakening joke intended) at the Black Knight's feet.

Honestly, if the Black Knight was really as honorable as his RD counterpart, he should've refused to fight Greil entirely or left him to raise Ike to be stronger than him before killing Greil.

Well he didn't know Greil was injured. He said he pretty much killed Greil by accident, expecting him to be a lot better than he was. Also, while we're talking about it, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I imagine severing the tendons in one of your arms would make wielding such a massive axe like Urvan much more difficult than using a sword.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Jotari

[Sentacotus]

Well he didn't know Greil was injured. He said he pretty much killed Greil by accident, expecting him to be a lot better than he was. Also, while we're talking about it, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I imagine severing the tendons in one of your arms would make wielding such a massive axe like Urvan much more difficult than using a sword.

Eh. Chalk it up to video game reasons. But yeah general idea is that the BK kinda accidentally killed him. Yeah he went in with the psychotic mindset to surpass Greil but it was too easy (he even mentioned it in the endgame of RD) for that reason which he didn't find out about until his final battle with Ike in PoR.

[AnonymousSpeed]

Well...I enjoy hypothetics, but given how important the Black Knight and Greil's death are to FE9's plot and thus subsequently, FE10's, it's...hard to fathom the difference.

In short though, I think you get a game which is overall less interesting. Ike doesn't have the same need to grow as a leader and soldier, he doesn't become leader of the Greil mercenaries, Shinon and Gatrie stick around. That last part is actually pretty neat. Other small details are Titania may continue to fawn over him, and Volke...I guess still is around. I mean, he has more reason to be around, given his original contract was very Greil-related. Let's see, what else...people would be more informed about the medallion, uh...any ripples caused by that. I don't even know if the same end battle would happen in this case, it's been so long since I've played FE9 or 10.

There is one more thing, and that is that you get a heaven affinity unit with axes, if...you want that.

[Sentacotus]

Yeah it would definetely have a bigger impact on Radiant Dawn and whether or not the Greil Mercenaries dive headlong into the war like they did or do something different entirely. Another thing to consider is that they probably would not have gone into hiding to wait for the rebels to come out like they did in Part II and that would have been different as well.

[AnonymousSpeed]

So, effectively, it'd rock the world. Like, change everything. I think Path of Radiance would have been more effected, though. I think the change for Radiant Dawn would mostly be that Greil would be the leader instead of Ike, they could still fill the same role in the story as Crimean mercenaries.

[Jotari]

I don't see how it would really affect much at all in Path of Radiance. Greil would be the liaison with everyone and the guy kicking ass but otherwise things would probably play out in the exact same way. People might know about the medallion a bit earlier but that wouldn't really affect anything.

[Sentacotus]

Yeah the big thing to keep in mind that at the time Greil confronted the Black Knight Crimea was already in open war with Daien and the Mercenaries already made their decision to help Elincia so that already put them at odds with Daien.

[Sentacotus]

Q2 What if Zephiel was killed in FE7?

This is an interesting one. At first glance it would seem that the events that happened in FE6 wouldn't have happened since the guy responsible died as a child. However, in all likliehood it would have accelerated a war since Nergal's original intent was to have the incident happen so he could gather more quintessence. What isn't so obvious is what the King and Queen of Bern would have done. Early on we are told about the rift between the two with the Queen being openly against what her husband had been doing. While the King would have likely played into Nergal's hand what would the Queen have done? Would she end up allying with Eliwood and Co and retrieving the Fire Emblem that was stolen. Would this cause a rift or civil war within Bern itself?

Disscuss. Also guys if you have any ideas for the topic shoot them my way in a PM. I had several for Tellius but I want this to be a topic for all of Fire Emblem. I also know next to nothing about FE2, 4, and 5 so any ideas there are particularly welcome.

Edited August 13, 2015 by LordTaco42

[NinjaMonkey]

Surely you mean "Zephiel", right?

Besides, the obvious thing that would happen is that the player would get a Game Over, and then have to re-start Battle Before Dawn (or rage quit, I suppose).

Edited August 13, 2015 by NinjaMonkey

[Sentacotus]

Surely you mean "Zephiel", right?

Besides, the obvious thing that would happen is that the player would get a Game Over, and then have to re-start Battle Before Dawn.

Yeah had a brain fart. But yeah aside from playing the game assuming the story goes on lol.

[Magical Glace]

He means Zephiel, yes.

Chances are all of FE6 would get replaced with Nergal gathering a lot of quintessence via a rebellion caused by Zephiel's death and destroying the continent with rogue dragons called through the gate. Roy, Wolt, Lilina, Sue, and especially Lugh and Raigh likely wouldn't be born.

[AnonymousSpeed]

Well, assuming Eliwood and co don't still defeat Nergal. I don't remember FE7 well enough to say how likely that is.

[Bullwine85]

Surely you mean "Zephiel", right?

Besides, the obvious thing that would happen is that the player would get a Game Over, and then have to re-start Battle Before Dawn (or rage quit, I suppose).

Honestly, I'm still jokingly surprised they didn't have the Game Over screen read "GAME OVER: TIME PARADOX"

[Loriciferica]

If Zephiel died, the queen might not have told the party where the Shrine of Seals was. So Athos would have to TP in and tell them.

If Nino does the deed, and Jaffar spares her, maybe Sonia would be OK with her and raise her to be Nergal's 20/20 Bolting bodyguard, perched in some keep farr away.

Or maybe Jaffar kills her afterwards and reports back for duty as usual.

Also none of FE6 ever happens and the rest of Elibe lives happily ever after.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Loriciferica