PvP Healthiness Polls

[charlesbarkley]

Looking back on it, yeah Breaking Sky is valid, but I felt the need to point out a flaw of the skill, I still hold by tho that Rescue isn't 100% broken to the point of other broken combos being nothing compared to it.

Rescue is more like a combo deck in a card game(MtG). 95% of all normal teams are going to be DESTROYED by it, but the people who think about making their team with the big strategies in mind will try to use one of the available units that can make the combo not work. Rescue CAN be countered BECAUSE it requires a lot of resources to have it running(provided we don't give it LoD, EV, Copycat, or Lethality). You have to have two staff users, a bruiser, and 2 free units. However, the combo is effectively destroyed when you get rid of even one of the 3 units(especially one of the staff users) and it has units that it can't OHKO. Don't just sit there and say you can't beat it, think of ways around it, and when you can't find a good way around it, that's when you have consider banning/restricting something.

Why wouldn't you give the staff user Copycat? You only really need one staff user for a hit-and-run. And even if you don't bother recalling the attacker you can still get two kills (with Galeforce) for the price of one unit. The real problem with rescue isn't the defensive capability, it's the offensive capability. That effective +9~11 MOV (depending upon the direction you're advancing) makes it literally impossible for the enemy to outzone you unless they have rescue staves as well.

Here's the kicker - even on the largest PvP map (My Castle) it's possible to get from one side to the other in one turn with rescue and a flier. Once Warp becomes available it will take even less resources to teleport in and wreck shit. FTA is ridiculous.

[Psyruby]

Why wouldn't you give the staff user Copycat? You only really need one staff user for a hit-and-run. And even if you don't bother recalling the attacker you can still get two kills (with Galeforce) for the price of one unit. The real problem with rescue isn't the defensive capability, it's the offensive capability. That effective +9~11 MOV (depending upon the direction you're advancing) makes it literally impossible for the enemy to outzone you unless they have rescue staves as well.

Here's the kicker - even on the largest PvP map (My Castle) it's possible to get from one side to the other in one turn with rescue and a flier. Once Warp becomes available it will take even less resources to teleport in and wreck shit. FTA is ridiculous.

We pretty much decided that Copycat should be banned or heavily restricted. It causes way too many problems.

Also, like I said before, if you take away brave weapons, this whole ORKO situation goes away. If you die before counterattacking, it's cause the match up was terrible. Which pretty much resolves the potency of Rescue, Lethality, EV+LoD, and even forged/unique weapons.

Edited August 12, 2015 by Psyruby

[Fujin]

Lethality has a low activation rate but stacked with Hoshido and Flamboyant it could be troublesome. That's a flat 25% chance of activating it before factoring in the character's skill and pair up. I think we need to experiment with it on pvp before jumping to conclusions but it seems op.

I'm not too sure how Extravagance works. Do you have to use a coin every turn to use it's effects or one coin lasts the match? I've been hearing different opinions on how it works. In any case, one coin sounds op. Many coins might be manageable. It seems like the kind of skill everyone will have to give them an edge though. Doesn't sound too pvp healthy especially combined with LoD.

LoD but itself is fine.

Forged weapons favor those who worked their butts off for them. Should those people really be penalized for something they put effort in? I understand some people don't have time to grind for hours on end so maybe people who forge should only play amongst themselves. That should balance the meta for those who aren't into forging. Personally I don't like forging but I understand that it wastes unique skills like Blood Boiling so I'm open to discussion on this.

Unique weapons should be allowed. It's what keeps the parents from being overshadowed by their kids. Not sure about the Yato though. Seems op.

[Centicerise]

So I just came out of a match where an enemy charlotte with galeforce had 100 percent hit rate and I kid you not 100 percent crit chance on one of my units (RIP soleil, I will retrieve you from the shadow realm some day).

Great Club C 6 45 55 -5 1 1900 Critical Evade -5, Critical hits deal more damage

Can we talk about great club having 55 crit chance unforged? Its abysmal hit rate is easily remedied by raven strike. I remember the charlotte having raven strike, ogre strike, galeforce, and breaking sky. Don't remember the last skill. (Was probably flamboyant because she had fradulent hit rate on my trueblade kamui with 47 spd, 36 lck, and holding S katana which gives 20 evasion.)

Yes I know we're going to talk about berserkers being not mobile or something, but the enemy team had a copy puppet rally rescue Pegasus aqua which kindly buffed Charlotte up and gave her 8 movement before teleporting her into range to absolutely bludgeon my units to death.

I don't even know what part of this to take issue with so I'll just default to the rescue staff.

I'm traumatized right now. Please comfort me.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Centicerise

[GoXDS]

So I just came out of a match where an enemy charlotte with galeforce had 100 percent hit rate and I kid you not 100 percent crit chance on one of my units (RIP soleil, I will retrieve you from the shadow realm some day).

Great Club C 6 45 55 -5 1 1900 Critical Evade -5, Critical hits deal more damage

Can we talk about great club having 55 crit chance unforged? Its abysmal hit rate is easily remedied by raven strike. I remember the charlotte having raven strike, ogre strike, galeforce, and breaking sky. Don't remember the last skill.

Yes I know we're going to talk about berserkers being not mobile or something, but the enemy team had a copy puppet rally rescue Pegasus aqua which kindly buffed Charlotte up and gave her 8 movement before teleporting her into range to absolutely bludgeon my units to death.

I don't even know what part of this to take issue with so I'll just default to the rescue staff.

wait wtf, this thing exists? ._. just rough calc, 40 Berserker cap +3 Mod +6 Mt -~29 average def = 19 before weapon bonus or triangle. x4 = 76...

at the very least, that set up is completely impossible to complete without buying skills. IK A+ Rinkah for Ogre, Kamui must marry Charlotte for both Raven Strike and Breaking Sky can be from either Nishiki or Kamui

assuming Awakening formula... Charlotte vs Kamui

Hit = (3*32+25)/2 + 45 = 105.5

Avoid = (3*47+36)/2 + 20 (S Katana) + 10 (Trueblade) = 118.5

Hitrate = 105 - 118 + 40 (Raven Strike) + 30 (Flamboyant) - 20? (S Rank weapon triangle) = 37 Hitrate...?

Edited August 14, 2015 by GoXDS

[Psyruby]

wait wtf, this thing exists? ._. just rough calc, 40 Berserker cap +3 Mod +6 Mt -~29 average def = 19 before weapon bonus or triangle. x4 = 76...

at the very least, that set up is completely impossible to complete without buying skills. IK A+ Rinkah for Ogre, Kamui must marry Charlotte for both Raven Strike and Breaking Sky can be from either Nishiki or Kamui

You know, Im about to announce the results of my number crunching where I exclude forging, boots, copycat, and brave weapons, and this talk of the great club copycat rescue strategy tells me I was right to deny those first 3.

[Centicerise]

wait wtf, this thing exists? ._. just rough calc, 40 Berserker cap +3 Mod +6 Mt -~29 average def = 19 before weapon bonus or triangle. x4 = 76...

at the very least, that set up is completely impossible to complete without buying skills. IK A+ Rinkah for Ogre, Kamui must marry Charlotte for both Raven Strike and Breaking Sky can be from either Nishiki or Kamui

assuming Awakening formula... Charlotte vs Kamui

Hit = (3*32+25)/2 + 45 = 105.5

Avoid = (3*47+36)/2 + 20 (S Katana) + 10 (Trueblade) = 118.5

Hitrate = 105 - 118 + 40 (Raven Strike) + 30 (Flamboyant) - 20? (S Rank weapon triangle) = 37 Hitrate...?

Didn't use a great club to bop my kamui iirc. I do distinctly remember the charlotte had forged weapons as well.

[GoXDS]

Didn't use a great club to bop my kamui iirc. I do distinctly remember the charlotte had forged weapons as well.

probably had to be Reverse Axe or else the hit rate would be terrible still. that'd be +20(no more triangle)+20(triangle)+20(weapon bonus)+15(reverse club's higher Hit) for +75 so 100% Hit Rate against your Kamui

S rank club would be +30 from higher weapon hit to bring it to 67 Hitrate (which is less than ideal but possible)

ofc, all of these calcs were based on unforged...

Edited August 14, 2015 by GoXDS

[Fujin]

So I just came out of a match where an enemy charlotte with galeforce had 100 percent hit rate and I kid you not 100 percent crit chance on one of my units (RIP soleil, I will retrieve you from the shadow realm some day).

Great Club C 6 45 55 -5 1 1900 Critical Evade -5, Critical hits deal more damage

Can we talk about great club having 55 crit chance unforged? Its abysmal hit rate is easily remedied by raven strike. I remember the charlotte having raven strike, ogre strike, galeforce, and breaking sky. Don't remember the last skill. (Was probably flamboyant because she had fradulent hit rate on my trueblade kamui with 47 spd, 36 lck, and holding S katana which gives 20 evasion.)

Yes I know we're going to talk about berserkers being not mobile or something, but the enemy team had a copy puppet rally rescue Pegasus aqua which kindly buffed Charlotte up and gave her 8 movement before teleporting her into range to absolutely bludgeon my units to death.

I don't even know what part of this to take issue with so I'll just default to the rescue staff.

I'm traumatized right now. Please comfort me.

O_O!! Damn boy you got stretched. Jokes aside, that's seriously broken. Great Club's 55% + Berserker's 20% + Ogre Strike's 20% = 95% crit rate before stats. Since crits usually ko a unit this is basically a more reliable Lethality.

[Great Geargia Gateway]

Yeaaahh... But isn't Luck supposed to decrease opponents Crit chance? Or something?

[astrophys]

They did say she fought Soleil (post #54)… Charlotte has an attack bonus and a crit bonus against women.

[Fujin]

They did say she fought Soleil (post #54)… Charlotte has an attack bonus and a crit bonus against women.

Damn, you're right. That's a flat 115% crit rate before factoring in stats. Heh, might as well call it Lethality+.