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Dunal

Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn ReDux (v0.8.72 CH 2-2)

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Also, is there a way to make it so the Amiti isn't permanently locked on to Elincia and have it so that Renning can use it being that he is a Crimean noble?

I'm 99% certain that Renning could use Amiti in vanilla

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I'm 99% certain that Renning could use Amiti in vanilla

I'm fairly sure that's not the case. He may be able to equip the weapon -- but it's locked to Elincia. Unless it's the former fact you're strictly talking about.

I don't think that it would be plausible to balance him around being able to use it either. It would mean that I would need to balance his stats around being able to use such an amazing weapon, which would make him worse when not using it.

That concept applies to any unit with a powerful PRF weapon. For example, to look at it the other way, if Thani did not exist, I would need to buff Micaiah to least Ilyana's level for using just standard tomes (I say 'at least' since forced main characters should be allowed a bit of extra power budget).

By the way, I'm actually thinking of releasing something purely experimental as part of the next release...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UShv1bGdSA&feature=youtu.be

"Classic mode", where numbers, balancing and scaling are more in the vein of pre-FE9 Fire Emblems. With the exception of higher base HP and higher weapon MT (something I believe is excellent for balance and "feel" of the game -- Immortal Sword being an inspiration for this) as a means to balance STR/DEF/RES.

How could this benefit gameplay?

  • More familiarity and closeness to the older Fire Emblem games.
  • Better emphasis in base stats over growths.
  • Less harsher scaling, resulting in stronger balance in regards to units being under or overleveled.
  • Less power-creep when it comes to the later stages of the game.

This may well actually end up becoming the new "ReDux" if enough people like/prefer it. But I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on this. Should this be an additional/separate project? Or replace the main project? Or do you feel it will be something unnecessary to begin with? Let me know.

Edited by DLuna

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Which Fire Emblem(s) is your archetypal "old" coming from?

Anything bar FE4.

Although growths tend to consistently be in the 200-300% range which is also the case for this version.

The dawn Brigade will likely all have 280-300% with say the Mercenaries having 240-260%.

As opposed to FE4 bases and ~400% growths.

Weapons and enemies would also be changing a lot.

I mean, lowering bases doesn't actually change things practically -- it's just cleaner numbers and easier to track in relation to previous FEs. But lowering say, every unit's STR and DEF by 1 doesn't change anything.

Changing growths however does have a dramatic effect on the game. Unit level advantages are less important, and underleveledness is less of an issue (as the base stat differentials are closer). It also means that pre-promotes like Sothe can be balanced to be weaker because everyone else's 15/1 or 20/1 stats will be worse when compared to their actual bases in tier 1, meaning Sothe can be closer towards them. Because growths are lower, a prepromote or higher leveled unit aren't going to need crazy bases to make sure they are not bad for their level.

Logically, the higher growths are in a FE, the more unstable balance is. Higher growths = greater variance in expected gains and scaling as you move through the game, and can make the usability of a unit drastically more different with even just 5 levels or so.

That doesn't mean though that all growths should be ~200% or lower, because that removes the sense of progression from the game. And no one likes 1 or 2 stat level ups nearly all the time. But older FEs had the right balance for the most part.

Of course, it does matter on a stat-by-stat basis too. Having a really high HP/Luck growth is hardly gamechanging when it comes to scaling (so if they are really high to otherwise offset a 250-300% that's fine). But STR/DEF/SPD definitely is. Combined, those would rarely surpass 110% or so.

Edited by DLuna

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And how will character and enemy skills factor in to modeling the stats after older FE games? Will you be redistributing or editing skills to fit in more with previous FE games without skills, or are those not part of "aging" the game?

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I'm not too concerned with skills. They were far more game-changing in FE4/5.

The point of "classic" mode (or "number-scaling-reduction-mode", whatever you want to call it) is to have things simpler from a numbers standpoint and reduce scaling. Skills don't really tie into that. It's not so much making it like the older games for the sake of it, but to offer tighter numerical balancing that's very much like the old games, which can be seen as in improvement.

And if it does appear to be a flat out improvement, it may well replace and become the ReDux hack altogether.

That's why I'm releasing it as an experiment.

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tbh I wouldn't really want this "classic" mode to replace the main project. It might be interesting as a side release, but I'd definitely prefer the game to be more in line with vanilla, stats-wise.

Yeah, it's understandable to feel that way -- In that case I will just do this as a side release.

I do plan to shift growths a bit further for the main version though (as in, bring them down a notch). And put a bit more emphasis on base HP as opposed to DEF/RES (as a means to control damage numbers better -- so magi aren't as squishy and tanks not as tanky).

I am currently making a lot of changes to the Part 1 maps overall as well. Some more than others.

Also, I'm currently making some heavy iterations on staff range. Heal/Mend now have 1-2 range, Recover and Barrier 1-3 range, Unlock 1-4 range etc...

With staves being so expensive and healing items been so good, it felt necessary to make them more awesome.

The downside is that ranks and WEXP will be harsher as a result.

With HP going up and DEF/RES going down a bit, that's also another reason to give staves some love, since the actual healing values will be less powerful now (which is a good thing since it means staves like Recover have a valued purpose rather than Mend or even heal being good enough by themselves).

Meg now has 38 base HP with base Laura healing only 16 with Heal. With 1-2 range this is now acceptable, and actually gives the player a strong reason to buy a Mend staff or Recover (which is available early).

And yes... Some player classes will have around a 100 HP cap (Marshalls, Reavers and Tigers).

Suddenly Archsages being stuck with only heal staves suddenly become a rather notable downside. You may actually have a strong reason to bring a Bishop now (They will now likely be the only class with AoE healing access as well, with the exception of Mist).

Edited by DLuna

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100 hp caps horey shet.

I shutter to imagine what the endgame bosses will be like.

They'll still be capped at 120 HP, but their DEF and RES will just be higher.

While for player units, or common enemies, HP is just going way up in favor of DEF/RES being a lot lower.

It means that Armor knights would have say, 100HP and 28 DEF, which magi have 60 HP and 22 DEF.

Instead of 65HP/35DEF and 45HP/20DEF.

The former regulates damage numbers between each unit far better. While the latter makes armors almost invincible (and easy to heal) and mages die from a calm breeze (and harder to heal).

Basically, tankiness being based around HP rather than DEF/RES is healthier (heh...) for the game. That's a fact. A unit being tanky to the point of taking 0-5 damage values is silly. But the opposite is also true (units being almost one-shot). It also has the function of making the more powerful healing items or staves less redundant. Yay for Concoctions!

Dheginsea/Ashera will still have a ton of DEF/RES though.

Hope that make sense.

Mages are getting pretty much a flat out buff from this. But they need it.

EDIT: *Invincible, not invisible. Callum isn't in this game. =p

PS. Don't give 'Shade' to your Marshalls

Edited by DLuna

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Are you changing the mights of the tomes? They were pretty low in RD...

Yeah, they scale harder. 'El' tomes > 'Arc' tomes is a 4 MT difference between them.

I don't think it was really an issue though since the MAG stat of pretty much any magic user was/is very high anyway. People comment on how "bad" tomes are but they're only ever going to ever be as good as the units who use them... or the RES of others. If the original RD had +10 MT on all tomes but each user has -10 magic not much would change... except effective damage. =o

But making them scale to the point where using an upgraded tome actually means something was an clear improvement to be made. Before it was kinda lousy. Yay... 2 MT. Forging +4 MT on a tome gives you an Arc one, with better other stats. That is/was odd.

It does mean that effective damage is going up. Arcthunder now has 39 MT on dracos. It probably balances out though since HP values are going way up.

In fact, the whole reason why tome MT was so low to begin with probably was because of effective damage. So it's likely the developers just increased the base MAG of each unit instead.

Edited by DLuna

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By the way, I'm thinking of doing something a bit crazy with magic. Bear with me on this one... but for now it will just be an experiment.

Dark and Thunder magic are now only 1 range (but are buffed otherwise).

Wind magic becomes 2-3 range.

Fire and Light remain 1-2 range.

Pretty crazy change, but I think it would be a really interesting one to not only further diversify magic types, but also to basically enable enemy magic users to be more common.

Why? Because if they are all strictly 1-2, then I can't make enemy magic users too common without making them annoying. Having enemy casters who can only fight at 1 range means you have a much more likely chance to retaliating against them on enemy phase. Making them less... annoying.

It also means I can create interesting stat changes for magic units. It's likely that Ilyana (and other tier 1 mages) will be given two magic types (So Ilyana can be given E fire or something) and I can increase her defence or HP even further (probably HP mainly).

I may revert all this in the future depending on how people feel about it, but in practice it seems to work well (Ilyana is certainly unique now). And allows me to diversify enemy units a lot more. Mixing in a lot of Thunder magi or Druids won't be tedious for the player.

So yay, the resistance stat becomes useful and relevant (not usually the case in the original game).

Wind magic however... 3 range is going into fairly dangerous territory, but with the right tuning I think it can work out... and resulting in an interesting niche. Their MT is pretty bad as a result.

Edited by DLuna

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Dark and Thunder being 1 range seems very dangerous for the class types that will be using them. How it will be balanced (or not balanced) would be very interesting... I like the concept so far.

I like the three range wind. Tweak it so that the wind if very weak or circumstantial, and it then has a good tradeoff, one which the player can attempt to work with via supports or forging or other means. I could see myself playing with character skills and three range wind to take advantage of the new playstyle.

Perhaps adding a few status effects to dark or thunder would help incentivize a risk of being a 1-range combat, which in turn makes the game more interesting and provides the player with more choices on how to proceed.

I like this idea very much--please explore it!

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Will you be doing something this extreme to the physical weapons as well?

I'm also thinking about doing something with Longbows. Making them 3-4 range. This makes them still relevant even for marksman. It never made sense that they become completely useless for them.

The weakness is that they then cannot retaliate against other normal bows and magi. They would also have ridiculous weight like siege tomes so you'll absolutely have to protect someone using them.

Otherwise, nothing major. There is something about Cats and Ravens I'm going to test though -- that having 1-2 range at SS rank strike. The logic would be that they're so blindingly fast that they can close the gap during any engagement. So thematically it isn't that odd, and now you actually have 1-2 range Laguz aside from Dragons.

Obviously though, Cat/Raven SS weapons won't gain any additional MT/CRIT etc... from the upgrade from S. So they'd have the weakest SS weapons. WEXP would be something to tweak as well.

Dark and Thunder being 1 range seems very dangerous for the class types that will be using them. How it will be balanced (or not balanced) would be very interesting... I like the concept so far.

Someone that primarily uses Thunder or Dark, would of course have stats based around it. IIyana now has +1 base movement and adjusted bases/growths. She's not immediately frontline material but she can grow to be.

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Yeah, if you don't make each mage able to use all magic types and keep that, it could be more interesting. I'm fine with that change.

Thinking it through -- This is how this should pan out:

Tier 1 mages still only have one magic type. This hasn't changed. Thunder mages have +1 movement. Was thinking about giving Ilyana Fire or Wind E from the start, but balancing her around just Thunder is more than possible. With +1 move and being 3HKO at base, she should be fine. Very comparable to Edward in usability at base.... But will end up being more of a magical Aran at tier 2 and beyond. Basically a magical tank with a weakness to magic. Pelleas will be one the tankiest units in the entire game, period -- with an excellent combination of HP, DEF and RES.

Tier 2 sages have two magic types. Secondary type is capped at B. Except Micaiah (Who is S).

Micaiah: Light and Dark. Also Staves at tier 2 (Max B).

Ilyana: Thunder and Fire.

Tormod: Fire and Thunder.

Soren: Wind and Dark.

Calill: Fire and Wind.

Bastian: Wind and Thunder. Also Staves.

Pelleas: Dark and Fire.

Sanaki. All magic types. Can SS them all. No Staves. Starting ranks would be S fire, A everything else.

For archsages, staves are learned, and have a max of C. Micaiah can SS both Light and Dark, and start with S with both at the minimum. She can also reach A Staves.

Mist can reach S staves and SS swords.

Elincia can only reach A staves (starts at B), but SS swords.

Saints can reach both SS staves and light. They are therefore the only SS staff users in the game. So have two staves exclusive to them.

Thinking about whether saints should gain an Anima type at third tier (starting at C rank, maxing at A rank). Rhys = Fire. Laura = Wind. Oliver = Thunder. Not sure yet, though. Was already planning on giving them +1 movement.

All dark magic provides +3 defense/resistance. Still have decent offence, but are based around durability.

Thunder magic has the best MT/HIT/Crit total values of any type.

Wind has the worst MT/HIT/Crit total values of any type. I'm fairly sure it can be balanced since Soren and Bastian just do not have the speed to double and Calill deserves to be powerful just on the basis of her availability. I may even be able to give wind 3-4 range or even 2-4 based on how it pans out.

Fire is average and values MT over hit.

Light is average and values hit over MT.

Blizzard has 4-15 range and is the weakest.

Fire and Purge are 3-10 range and are average.

Bolting is 2-8 range and is the strongest.

That pretty much covers everything magic related.

Thoughts? Anything worth changing slightly?

Edited by DLuna

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I think with staff WEXP being lower, a Saint may have to choose whether they will SS staves or light. Or pump a couple arm scrolls into them to get both realistically. Laura is especially unlikely to get SS light, just due to the nature of how she is likely to be used throughout the entire game -- which of course is a balancing factor for her (her magic is a bit on the low side, but all other stats are consistently great).

Therefore, I think Saints could do with being given either +1 movement or a secondary weapon type. Likely not both though.

I think most players would opt to bring at least one archsage and one Saint or Mist. Since pretty much all Archsages are still designed to have better combat than them (someone like Ilyana or Pelleas are tanky. Calill or Tormod just outright have superior offensive potential. Soren and Bastian have 3 range. Micaiah is literally good at everything combat related. aka. Ike 2.0. aka. Mary-sue-final-form achieved). Mist as it stands has a 3 movement advantage. So I'd essentially be cutting it down to a 2 movement advantage in terms to who Rhys/Laura/Oliver are competing with.

And then you have Lehran show up who can perfectly substitute a Saint anyway. Who happens to be available what should be the hardest map in the game (trust me to make it that way).

I'd talk about stat caps too, but those are going to be unit based now as opposed to class based. So those don't really apply to class discussion. Basically, Rhys will have completely different caps to Laura. Same with Calill/Tormod/Ilyana, or Titania/Kieran/Makalov etc... All caps are tailor fit to their growths (or just compromises other weaknesses -- Geoffrey, Tormod or Micaiah being given fantastic caps for instance). In other words you have Laura with a 42 speed cap with Rhys having a 30 cap, and almost vice versa for magic caps. Because they have rather bad caps for either magic or speed, their combat will never be more than average. That separates them from Archsages. Mist can't use SS staves but combat will likely be a lot better.

You also have the issue with Saints directly competing with Micaiah or even Sanaki/Lehran for the SS light tome.

TLDR; I don't think it's inappropriate for Saints to be one of the better classes in the entire game (in terms of versatility/movement), outside of stats.

Edited by DLuna

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I notice that you dont have any changes planned for the Heaven affility, despite the fact that its overkill hit chance is generally considered underwhelming, especially since all Heaven affinity characters are sword users or Laguz. Water affinity's old stat bonus (.5 Might and Defense) is currently unaccounted for, so that might be more suitable. That said, you're of course better suited to judge this and I dont know if you have any specific reason for leaving it.

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Do you plan on allowing players to have a choice as to whether or not they want to deploy Sothe in Endgame? In my last playthrough (Which was a couple years ago.), I remember training Volke a lot, only to realize later on that I was forced to take Sothe with me to Ashera's Tower or whatever it was called. It was kinda redundant having two knife-users stabbing everybody.

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Do you plan on allowing players to have a choice as to whether or not they want to deploy Sothe in Endgame? In my last playthrough (Which was a couple years ago.), I remember training Volke a lot, only to realize later on that I was forced to take Sothe with me to Ashera's Tower or whatever it was called. It was kinda redundant having two knife-users stabbing everybody.

Not sure at the moment. Sothe not being an forced deploy contradicts in-game dialogue which is changeable as well. However, it's best to wait and see if it's necessary.

For what its worth, Peshkatz will be buffed a bit and have more uses, so it's feasible to give Volke/Heather the Baselard/Peshkatz and Sothe the other.

Sothe/Heather are definitely being buffed massively for lategame though, with Volke also being a bit better. I think they'll be plenty of incentive to either deploy Heather/Volke now, regardless if Sothe is forced.

I notice that you dont have any changes planned for the Heaven affility, despite the fact that its overkill hit chance is generally considered underwhelming, especially since all Heaven affinity characters are sword users or Laguz. Water affinity's old stat bonus (.5 Might and Defense) is currently unaccounted for, so that might be more suitable. That said, you're of course better suited to judge this and I dont know if you have any specific reason for leaving it.

I think Heaven affinity has its place in the game.

The units with it can be given worse skill/luck in return for better other stats as a means of support encouragement. It also means that those units, even if they are sword units, can be given weapons like Silver Blades and still reliably hit. Some enemies have a lot of avoid too.

You can also pair them up with other units trying to use Dark Magic or Longbows etc...

Heaven affinity is also really helpful in situations where the units are in bad biorhythm. Or trying to attack enemies up a ledge etc... Or just bosses who are a bit harder to hit.

If the player is smart in how to make use of it, heaven affinity can be very useful. It can make otherwise inaccurate weapons really fantastic. Pair them with a dark magic user and the results will speak for themselves. MicaiahXMeg is shaping up to be something I really like. Dark!Micaiah is actually a fairly competent front liner and that certainly solidifies it in say 3-6 where the cats can be rather evasive. A 50% hit-rate going up to 74%? That's significantly more reliable. Taking into account true hit that's like +32% hitrate or something.

Edited by DLuna

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Making the knife-users better actually sounds like a much better idea. You won't even have to use up precious time editing text that way, either.

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Volke I think will be a bit weaker at base but have incredible growths and caps. So he won't be a "free" great unit anymore. So in 4-5 you can make him awesome.

Heather is incredibly unique in that she is probably the only unit in the entire game to have good hybrid damage. Her magic stat is monstrous and Daemon cards have 18 MT. So she can deal respectable magic damage with no retaliation. And her physical damage is good -- not as good as Sothe/Volke, but decent enough.

Edited by DLuna

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