FE4 (O-sawa Mitsuki) Manga Translation Continued (Chapter 70 up)

[Jugdral Defender]

Let's take a shot for every Oosawa canon divergence!

Ha ha ha.

We're dead.

I'm a bit confused about Azel and Tiltyu's current relation and their kids. From the way Azel and Alvis talks it seems that while its obvious there isn't an official relation yet and Tiltyu getting surprised when she thinks Azel wants to kiss her, as well as Azel keeping it to himself that his gift is part of a set implies that they haven't tied the knot just yet.

That means they got only a few chapters to pump out two kids.

It happens between the gens. According to volume nine's age chart, Arthur is fifteen, so she did work with his age accordingly.

Age clusterfuck!

It's also kind of like how it's just implied some of the girls were probably into very early pregnancy at the end of gen 1 or had the kids later (Lana age fuck up???). Considering Barhara, the MIA characters couldn't have had kids between the gens, but Azel and Tiltyu had that leeway (and Claude and Sylvia had to have moved even faster than that since they're never "officially" together throughout all of gen 1. There were major hints, but they never actually hooked up from what we're shown... and Leen is supposedly the same age as Lana and Sety, and Aideen/Jamka and Fury/Levin were already set in stone for a while).

Lana and Sety are the same age according to the age chart, so Aideen and Fury were possibly both into early pregnancy by the end of gen 1 or after (see: Faval's age fucks up everything) (and Oosawa chilled on the implied and obvious sex scenes so we can only assume this is the case). That also means Sylvia and Claude got right on that shit after Barhara... then couldn't wait and did it again right after and popped out a baby boy, as Corpul's age is listed as fourteen. Leaf is listed as sixteen and there are plenty of people younger than him (nine of the gen 2 kids, to be exact), so there are a lot of between gen births.

Funny thing is that Faval is listed as sixteen like Leaf but Leaf is already born, and Brigid doesn't look the least bit pregnant. In fact, she has no official pairing through all of gen 1... which means she also got right on that shit after Barhara, like really fucking speedy if Faval's the same age as someone already born. That also could mean Fury and Aideen are in fact not pregnant yet... which means Sety's technical real father is in fact the dragon!!!

Or it's actually Levin. If Fury is already pregnant. But you know, that means he's fifteen and Faval's sixteen and Sety wold have to be born first if Fury was pregnant already so that makes absolutely no sense.

Also that means Aideen isn't pregnant right now because Lana would have been born before Faval in that case but if she's not pregnant yet than did Jamka come back for a speedy fuck and head back out??? Or did Brigid just have a one night stand then decide to hook up and we have been living a lie??? But then, that means Faval and Lana would be the same age if both girls were pregnant right now. But if Brigid was in fact pregnant right now because of the above, then back to the Jamka comment. But Brigid didn't hook up with anyone and I mean REALISTICALLY I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD'VE HAPPENED, so back to "she got right on that shit" and then back to the Jamka comment either way.

You lost me, Oosawa.

I really do want to know what Oosawa was doing when she made this age chart.

I say he's actually just yandere as fuck

He did consider killing Azel, you know

Tbh that whole situation was mildly confusing with how easily Azel convinced him after what just happened with the Velthomers, but hey, Oosawa's gotta make do. After all, it was just a thrilling dream, right?!

Which, speaking of, I need to get to work on that chapter. I dunno when it'll be out but I can start typesetting so Ima do that. No rush at least since I just got one out.

It isn't impossible. A lot of kids their age would hump anything that moves. :P

Also, my guess is that Oosawa changed the story so that they have kids after Bahara.

Azel and Tiltyu obviously didn't die, so yeah, that's the only thing that could've happened. Plenty of the kids were born between the gens, even if it gets a little canon whacky there (you want wanna get those shots ready).

Apparently Sigurd being murdered was a turn on for Diadora and she also hopped right on that shit (Yurius and Yuria are sixteen according to the chart), but I'd rather think that wasn't the case, you know??? Let's just say she's already pregnant or something. ...Even though they've repeatedly discussed this topic and how it's a very awkward situation for both Dia and Alvis. So I guess we're back to figuring she jumped on it after Sig died.

Which really bewilders me since she got her memory back (where's my shot?) and he died right in her front of her (make that two).

Honestly, Azel and Tiltyu do in fact have the most sensible situation among all this.

Edited June 17, 2016 by Jugdral Defender

[Yoshi2398]

I say he's actually just yandere as fuck

He did consider killing Azel, you know

that actually makes allot of sense now that I think about it.

Ha ha ha.

We're dead.

It happens between the gens. According to volume nine's age chart, Arthur is fifteen, so she did work with his age accordingly.

Age clusterfuck!

It's also kind of like how it's just implied some of the girls were probably into very early pregnancy at the end of gen 1 or had the kids later (Lana age fuck up???). Considering Barhara, the MIA characters couldn't have had kids between the gens, but Azel and Tiltyu had that leeway (and Claude and Sylvia had to have moved even faster than that since they're never "officially" together throughout all of gen 1. There were major hints, but they never actually hooked up from what we're shown... and Leen is supposedly the same age as Lana and Sety, and Aideen/Jamka and Fury/Levin were already set in stone for a while).

Lana and Sety are the same age according to the age chart, so Aideen and Fury were possibly both into early pregnancy by the end of gen 1 or after (see: Faval's age fucks up everything) (and Oosawa chilled on the implied and obvious sex scenes so we can only assume this is the case). That also means Sylvia and Claude got right on that shit after Barhara... then couldn't wait and did it again right after and popped out a baby boy, as Corpul's age is listed as fourteen. Leaf is listed as sixteen and there are plenty of people younger than him (nine of the gen 2 kids, to be exact), so there are a lot of between gen births.

Funny thing is that Faval is listed as sixteen like Leaf but Leaf is already born, and Brigid doesn't look the least bit pregnant. In fact, she has no official pairing through all of gen 1... which means she also got right on that shit after Barhara, like really fucking speedy if Faval's the same age as someone already born. That also could mean Fury and Aideen are in fact not pregnant yet... which means Sety's technical real father is in fact the dragon!!!

Or it's actually Levin. If Fury is already pregnant. But you know, that means he's fifteen and Faval's sixteen and Sety wold have to be born first if Fury was pregnant already so that makes absolutely no sense.

Also that means Aideen isn't pregnant right now because Lana would have been born before Faval in that case but if she's not pregnant yet than did Jamka come back for a speedy fuck and head back out??? Or did Brigid just have a one night stand then decide to hook up and we have been living a lie??? But then, that means Faval and Lana would be the same age if both girls were pregnant right now. But if Brigid was in fact pregnant right now because of the above, then back to the Jamka comment. But Brigid didn't hook up with anyone and I mean REALISTICALLY I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD'VE HAPPENED, so back to "she got right on that shit" and then back to the Jamka comment either way.

You lost me, Oosawa.

I really do want to know what Oosawa was doing when she made this age chart.

Tbh that whole situation was mildly confusing with how easily Azel convinced him after what just happened with the Velthomers, but hey, Oosawa's gotta make do. After all, it was just a thrilling dream, right?!

Which, speaking of, I need to get to work on that chapter. I dunno when it'll be out but I can start typesetting so Ima do that. No rush at least since I just got one out.

Azel and Tiltyu obviously didn't die, so yeah, that's the only thing that could've happened. Plenty of the kids were born between the gens, even if it gets a little canon whacky there (you want wanna get those shots ready).

Apparently Sigurd being murdered was a turn on for Diadora and she also hopped right on that shit (Yurius and Yuria are sixteen according to the chart), but I'd rather think that wasn't the case, you know??? Let's just say she's already pregnant or something. ...Even though they've repeatedly discussed this topic and how it's a very awkward situation for both Dia and Alvis. So I guess we're back to figuring she jumped on it after Sig died.

Which really bewilders me since she got her memory back (where's my shot?) and he died right in her front of her (make that two).

Honestly, Azel and Tiltyu do in fact have the most sensible situation among all this.

I may be stating the obvious here but I think it's probably best to ignore the age chart because it's likely just filled with holes that O-sawa didn't think of at the time.

also as far as I remember I believe Finn and Raquesis have one of the more sensible pairings as well

[Jugdral Defender]

I'm just stating the ages Oosawa put - not saying they make sense. They don't particularly. In fact, I'm mentioning quite the opposite.

It's not a matter of sensible in terms of timing per pairing, it's just the timing Oosawa wrote for each one of them. Azel/Tiltyu just happens to be one of the ones that make sense with how she wrote this.

[Chairman Meow]

This manga is a great way to relive FE4's story. Just blasted through 50 whole chapters in the last two days. Many thanks to everyone who put in the effort in this project!

Now the painful wait towards the inevitable climax *doors of fate bgm playing in the background*

[Jugdral Defender]

Now the painful wait towards the inevitable climax *doors of fate bgm playing in the background*

I did consider sneaking the arranged OST's Doors of Fate mp3 into one of the chapters but I decided that would be too cruel.

[TheEnd]

I did consider sneaking the arranged OST's Doors of Fate mp3 into one of the chapters but I decided that would be too cruel.

It's not too late to sneak in End of Despair, though

[Jugdral Defender]

Chapter 51 is up.

IT WAS JUST... A THRILLING DREAM... ALL IS WELL, FRIENDS...

Chapter 51, featuring: Hoes Before Bros. (I mean Reptor not Tiltyu I like Tiltyu)
Fuck this chapter hurt in the Velthomer feels.

Prepare yourselves, enemies of Oosawa Andre portrayal.

Meanwhile I apologize for my shitty minor blood symbol edit in the credits.
Fun things to know: It'll be major next chapter.

Four more chapters of our adults, friends...
Next chapter is the beginning of the end...

It's not too late to sneak in End of Despair, though

Indeed, it's not.
I'm certainly not not cruel enough to pull that.

Edited July 1, 2016 by Jugdral Defender

[Kah-Hoa-Raverkeisnt]

Hey, thanks as always for the wonderful translations.

Damn, Oosawa, you're Satan incarnated, I already know what happens with everyone but you managed to make it hurt even more!

My problem with Andre's redemption was how much it contradicts with his first appearance, I mean, the first thing we know about him was that he had no qualms to killing his father, something that even Langbalt finds disgusting, and then being very disrespectful to Pamela and making very sexist remarks, and now, suddenly it was revealed that he deeply respected his older sister Briggid? Sorry, nope, it felt really unnatural.

I didn't have any problem with Reptor's "redemption" if only because of all the circunstances and people involved. I mean, he even admited that he would be screwed if he tried to fight Velthomer's might and Sigurd's army of badasses, Tiltyu wasn't the sole reason offered.

Speaking of Tiltyu, we had three instances of her being very torn up about what her father did and Sigurd's remark about how much it pains her because despite of his acts he must have been a good father to her, so at least we had a set up(unlike Andre who made a glaring change right in the next appearance >_>), I think her seeing the chance of everything being fine between her and her dad and having that snatched felt even more cruel than her dad hating her and calling her a traitor.

Azel also plays an important role here, not just because of how he feels about Tiltyu, but because his disagreement about Alvis' ways, he probably doesn't know if Reptor did agree on a truce or not, but the readers do and that he means it, thinking about how even more horrorified he would be if he knew that his beloved brother would kill Reptor after he "finally seen the error of his ways" causes a hell of an impact, at least I felt like that.

Or should I say, Kaga did say in his notes that Azel was supposed to confront Alvis about this and getting to see it in all the horrible painful glory is damn satisfying.

[Jugdral Defender]

Hey, thanks as always for the wonderful translations.

Damn, Oosawa, you're Satan incarnated, I already know what happens with everyone but you managed to make it hurt even more!

My problem with Andre's redemption was how much it contradicts with his first appearance, I mean, the first thing we know about him was that he had no qualms to killing his father, something that even Langbalt finds disgusting, and then being very disrespectful to Pamela and making very sexist remarks, and now, suddenly it was revealed that he deeply respected his older sister Briggid? Sorry, nope, it felt really unnatural.

I didn't have any problem with Reptor's "redemption" if only because of all the circunstances and people involved. I mean, he even admited that he would be screwed if he tried to fight Velthomer's might and Sigurd's army of badasses, Tiltyu wasn't the sole reason offered.

Speaking of Tiltyu, we had three instances of her being very torn up about what her father did and Sigurd's remark about how much it pains her because despite of his acts he must have been a good father to her, so at least we had a set up(unlike Andre who made a glaring change right in the next appearance >_>), I think her seeing the chance of everything being fine between her and her dad and having that snatched felt even more cruel than her dad hating her and calling her a traitor.

Azel also plays an important role here, not just because of how he feels about Tiltyu, but because his disagreement about Alvis' ways, he probably doesn't know if Reptor did agree on a truce or not, but the readers do and that he means it, thinking about how even more horrorified he would be if he knew that his beloved brother would kill Reptor after he "finally seen the error of his ways" causes a hell of an impact, at least I felt like that.

Or should I say, Kaga did say in his notes that Azel was supposed to confront Alvis about this and getting to see it in all the horrible painful glory is damn satisfying.

Oosawa does actually change the fates of some characters, and some you won't even know about until wayyyyy later on.

Honestly, what Oosawa did for Langbart and Andre is REALLY confusing. Langbart doesn't like the whole kill your family thing, but yet he was completely cruel to his own son.

Andre DOES make a lot of sense there imo but is also still partly confusing. He's very sexist most likely BECAUSE of Brigid. He admired and loved her, she was taken away, and his life went upside down. It was because of the loss of the female head of the house that he went through a lot of what he did (not that it's HER fault but it was a likely factor in his change). Not saying it's RIGHT, but that's probably why Andre started hating women. He loved her deeply and lost her, then suddenly finds out his sisters are sided with his enemies.

The thing is, things WERE going to be okay between Tiltyu and Reptor IF things had gone the way the lies were geared. Unfortunately Aida and Alvis had the whle thing set up in the first place, and it probably did hurt Tiltyu more that everything was "going to be okay", then suddenly all this happens and the next time she wakes up, her father is dead.

Honestly, Alvis' way of thinking is also because he's being manipulated and used by Manfloy, you have to remember. This entire situation was set up by Manfloy AGES ago, and Manfloy CLEARLY used Diadora's marriage as leverage to manipulate Alvis' feelings further, causing him to begin to fear Sigurd's existence regarding Diadora. I believe he wasn't lying when he told Aida it wasn't like it didn't pain him. Unfortunately Alvis became afraid of losing his chance to finally be happy and tried to become controlling of Azel, who he also didn't want to lose (Alvis for yandere bro and husband tbh). Azel wasn't wrong that he'd changed, but he also was. Alvis, the REAL Alvis, was led into this unfortunate circumstance because of Manfloy, and the real Alvis has to still be in there somewhere if, you know, gen 2 and Tyrfing. Right now, he's angry and afraid, and he let emotions control him on top of being manipulated. In the past, he wouldn't have done that, and that's the part of that's changed. Now, he has something in his life that he so strongly doesn't want to lose that it's changed how he'd normally act when faced with losing that thing.

Kaga wanted Azel to become doubtful (about what was going on regarding Alvis) and TRUST his brother, and find answers because he knew all this had to be wrong and that that just was NOT his brother. Kaga's dream scenario of Azel is, imo, much more emotionally strong and more reasonable. Oosawa's portrayal is "I don't understand you" and then the presumable "and I'm not going to bother trying". Kaga's dream scenario Azel wanted to try to understand and to stop everything, and according to Kaga, he could've done it... if, surprise, Manfloy didn't butt his ass in as usual.

I honestly prefer the idea of Azel wanting to try to understand him. In the beginning of the game, he says he's scared of Alvis, and expresses strongly that he doesn't like being near him (presumably when he gets violent based on context). If you go by that and then the dream scenario, he's grown up a LOT. Oosawa's Azel instead just ducks out of the situation, and ultimately hurts Alvis more in the long run (i.e. losing his whole family which is also canon, though Azel wasn't quite so cruel toward him in the game). Alvis states he can "no longer" go back after losing Azel, so does that also possibly mean if he had Azel at his side, it would've saved him and they could've maybe found a solution to everything? That was probably his hope, and he explained the truth to Azel in case that didn't happen and the worst was unavoidable (thus he wouldn't have lied to Azel). If Azel had stayed, going by his thoughts that he can no longer turn back (now), it seems a lot like he was really considering turning back with Azel's help.

But see, I have Velthomer feelings.

If, you know, the name of this scan team didn't tell you that.

When all the original members of the team got together, we agreed on Fal (because congregation of Alvis fans!!! ...generally speaking, and also other Velthomers and cool fire yay Fala)... and it's best we did, or I might've just sneaked us by as Alvis Scans. :D

[Kah-Hoa-Raverkeisnt]

Yandere indeed.

Eh, I guess I didn't like the way Andre got dealt because he really rubbed me off in the wrong way, and it felt really sudden for the none existent screen time he got.

Most than duck of the situation I would say Oosawa's Azel isn't in the position to give his brother the benefit of trouble, Alvis just drops the info like a bomb and Azel discovers right there that Tiltyu and Sigurd/Sigurd's army in danger, trying to reason with him right there when the plans is already in motion wouldn't be first thing in the priority list, sure, later, after everyone was either killed or fled, maaaaybe he could have tried to reason with him.

[Jugdral Defender]

I was definitely surprised too when I bought the manga, but I try to piece it together just so it doesn't feel rushed or sloppy to me. I'm sure Oosawa didn't have much if any reason to bs this manga. When I first saw Oosawa Andre I totally hated him. ^^;

Yeah, that'd make more sense. Unfortunately Aida more or less went behind Alvis' back imo because

he would NEVER have ordered Azel killed and the soldiers under her command threaten/attempt to kill him in chapter 52.

If that hadn't happened, Azel might've even been more likely to try to return to Alvis sooner to figure out what was really going on.

Edited July 2, 2016 by Jugdral Defender

[Kah-Hoa-Raverkeisnt]

Speaking of Alvis, after The Evil Dragon possesed Julius/Yurius won't be common knowledge that Alvis and Diadora have Lopt blood? I mean, people wouldn't have an issue with having Celice or Julia/Yuria ruling because of that? They should have had a bit of Lopt blood on them right?

[Jugdral Defender]

According to the GAME, they don't have Lopt blood prominent enough to be worth mentioning... but the fact is, both Yuria's parents had it and Celice's mother had it. No matter how thinly (and it'd be stronger in Yuria regardless of her Narga blood), they do both still HAVE to have Lopt blood. Blood doesn't just disappear like that and it wouldn't thin out so strongly so soon into the following generations (MUCH less Yuria when her twin is not only major, but both her parents had minor. It wouldn't just vanish).

I'm sure Alvis kept it a secret to some extent about Yurius having Lopt blood tbh (to the public specifically at least). Even if he's possessed, well... Yurius is still his son and the child he raised from birth (and presumably in game a very sweet child before possession, which is also expressed in the manga). I don't think he would've wanted to expose him, and Diadora was already dead by the time that would've gotten out anyway.

The thing is, if you think about it... if Celice and Yuria did have a kid, there's every bit the chance the Lopt blood would be stronger in their child and continue to get stronger until Loptous could make his next grand entry. Not even just that, but if either of them had kids AT ALL, Celice is also still passing on Lopt blood. Again, regardless of how thinly, it was in Diadora's blood, and just because Celice is major Baldo doesn't mean the Lopt blood just disappeared from his body altogether. His lineage, and Yuria's if she happened to have had one (speaking game wise since as stated previously here Celice/Yuria is the Celice ship in this manga), no matter what would have Lopt blood continue in it for at least a little while... and the blood from dragons is stronger than human blood, so I assume it'd last longer in terms of generations.

If it was kept hidden from the public that Diadora had minor Lopt blood, then people wouldn't know about Celice either. It makes you wonder though how they'd feel about him if they knew, and if they'd seriously treat him differently. Since Celice pretty presumably ends up with Yuria anyway in the manga (like serious yolo at that point because it's like well fuck revelations at this point, I've known you longer than that), there is, again, that matter of Lopt blood being even stronger between them than if they had separate lineages.

Unfortunately this is exactly the shit Manfloy was going for and them falling for each other could literally end up Alvis/Diadora all over again in future generations without him even having to do anything this time.

You know, this might've even been what Kaga meant in a way when he said Holsety unintentionally set up the stage for the next tragedy...

Edited July 3, 2016 by Jugdral Defender

[Kah-Hoa-Raverkeisnt]

Ah, when I say common knowledge I meant that wouldn't people suspect where Julius' major Lopt came from? well, in game we have the villager that comments about how two minor bloods make a major blood child and in the manga I think Iria said something similar too.

This issue with the blood is confusing, because aren't Chagall and Eltoshan descendants of the same crusader? I think I heard somewhere that Chagall's family line didn't get any holy blood while Eltoshan's family line got all the holy blood.

And if you take FE5 as canon you have Cyas who probably got Lopt blood too. Keeping track of all this Lopt so they don't give birth to Satan again would be a hell of trouble huh?

Manfloy is the most successuful villain in the story of games, with all this mess he guaranted that there would be always a chance for someone being a Major Lopt now that the bloodline is spread.

Speaking of Celice/Julia, weren't them supposed to be the official couple before they ditched the idea? That would explain why they planned to have a third part.

Edited July 3, 2016 by Kah-Hoa-Raverkeisnt

[Jugdral Defender]

Ah, when I say common knowledge I meant that wouldn't people suspect where Julius' major Lopt came from? well, in game we have the villager that comments about how two minor bloods make a major blood child and in the manga I think Iria said something similar too.

This issue with the blood is confusing, because aren't Chagall and Eltoshan descendants of the same crusader? I think I heard somewhere that Chagall's family line didn't get any holy blood while Eltoshan's family line got all the holy blood.

And if you take FE5 as canon you have Cyas who probably got Lopt blood too. Keeping track of all this Lopt so they don't give birth to Satan again would be a hell of trouble huh?

Manfloy is the most successuful villain in the story of games, with all this mess he guaranted that there would be always a chance for someone being a Major Lopt now that the bloodline is spread.

Speaking of Celice/Julia, weren't them supposed to be the official couple before they ditched the idea? That would explain why they planned to have a third part.

As I'm keeping this generally manga based as this is the manga thread, I'm going to be speaking mostly from the manga perspective here (as game discussion would be in threads about the game and I don't want to go off topic).

What I mean is that I don't think anyone realized he had major Lopt blood. It was likely kept secret as Alvis' was. The manga also doesn't extend far enough to really get into detail about him/his blood, so a lot of the issues with Yurius went totally unresolved.

Shagaal and Eltshan have the same holy blood I think? Eltshan's family's blood was major and thus they wield their respective holy weapon, but if they're related/descedants of Hezul, then both of them MUST have the same blood. Shagaal's family just didn't get major blood for whatever reason.

Unfortunately there were a lot of things Oosawa could've done with Manfloy that were left unfinished because of the manga's early ending. It was nice to see her work with the time she did have with him.

Yeah, Celice and Yuria were originally going to become lovers automatically in chapter eight, but they scrapped that. ...Oosawa definitely didn't.

Edited July 3, 2016 by Jugdral Defender

[Etrurian emperor]

Yeah, Celice and Yuria were originally going to become lovers automatically in chapter eight, but they scrapped that. ...Oosawa definitely didn't.

So the manga ships Celice and Yuria then? Well that's...not at all surprising actually if we look at the Augustria arc.

[False Prophet]

Honestly, Alvis' way of thinking is also because he's being manipulated and used by Manfloy, you have to remember. This entire situation was set up by Manfloy AGES ago, and Manfloy CLEARLY used Diadora's marriage as leverage to manipulate Alvis' feelings further, causing him to begin to fear Sigurd's existence regarding Diadora. I believe he wasn't lying when he told Aida it wasn't like it didn't pain him. Unfortunately Alvis became afraid of losing his chance to finally be happy and tried to become controlling of Azel, who he also didn't want to lose (Alvis for yandere bro and husband tbh). Azel wasn't wrong that he'd changed, but he also was. Alvis, the REAL Alvis, was led into this unfortunate circumstance because of Manfloy, and the real Alvis has to still be in there somewhere if, you know, gen 2 and Tyrfing. Right now, he's angry and afraid, and he let emotions control him on top of being manipulated. In the past, he wouldn't have done that, and that's the part of that's changed. Now, he has something in his life that he so strongly doesn't want to lose that it's changed how he'd normally act when faced with losing that thing.

Kaga wanted Azel to become doubtful (about what was going on regarding Alvis) and TRUST his brother, and find answers because he knew all this had to be wrong and that that just was NOT his brother. Kaga's dream scenario of Azel is, imo, much more emotionally strong and more reasonable. Oosawa's portrayal is "I don't understand you" and then the presumable "and I'm not going to bother trying". Kaga's dream scenario Azel wanted to try to understand and to stop everything, and according to Kaga, he could've done it... if, surprise, Manfloy didn't butt his ass in as usual.

I honestly prefer the idea of Azel wanting to try to understand him. In the beginning of the game, he says he's scared of Alvis, and expresses strongly that he doesn't like being near him (presumably when he gets violent based on context). If you go by that and then the dream scenario, he's grown up a LOT. Oosawa's Azel instead just ducks out of the situation, and ultimately hurts Alvis more in the long run (i.e. losing his whole family which is also canon, though Azel wasn't quite so cruel toward him in the game). Alvis states he can "no longer" go back after losing Azel, so does that also possibly mean if he had Azel at his side, it would've saved him and they could've maybe found a solution to everything? That was probably his hope, and he explained the truth to Azel in case that didn't happen and the worst was unavoidable (thus he wouldn't have lied to Azel). If Azel had stayed, going by his thoughts that he can no longer turn back (now), it seems a lot like he was really considering turning back with Azel's help.

Doubtful. A man who immidiately considering and then executing the cruelest and vilest plan to another man who is his "opponent" simply by circumstances is, by no mean, a man who can be easily redempted by the existence of other people.

And, I've to say that to make your hypothesis ("Azel tries to understand his brother") true, he actually must not go crusade with Siglurd. First of all, he has been away from his brothers for years, without proper contact, and a long period of doubt that has just passed beforehand. Not even the strongest kind of bond can stay perfect in this case.

If Azel has grown up, it's in a sense that his shyness and perpetual hesistation have largely gone away - but not because that he is better at understanding people, but because it's necessary to survive in a war, both on the battlefield and in the middle of trecherous friends and foes.

No hard feeling, but I'm beginning to feel irritated by all the "Alvis sympathizer". First of all, yes, while he's his excuses... really, how many people who was once in that shoe really turned out like that?

And secondly, we must remember the Irish Mythology root of FE4 and 5. It's intended as a story of perpetual loss and revenge, of people taking karma into their own hands, only for it to backfired even harder. Like everyone else trapped in this cycle, I see no reason to give Alvis more pity than the others.

According to the GAME, they don't have Lopt blood prominent enough to be worth mentioning... but the fact is, both Yuria's parents had it and Celice's mother had it. No matter how thinly (and it'd be stronger in Yuria regardless of her Narga blood), they do both still HAVE to have Lopt blood. Blood doesn't just disappear like that and it wouldn't thin out so strongly so soon into the following generations (MUCH less Yuria when her twin is not only major, but both her parents had minor. It wouldn't just vanish).

I'm sure Alvis kept it a secret to some extent about Yurius having Lopt blood tbh (to the public specifically at least). Even if he's possessed, well... Yurius is still his son and the child he raised from birth (and presumably in game a very sweet child before possession, which is also expressed in the manga). I don't think he would've wanted to expose him, and Diadora was already dead by the time that would've gotten out anyway.

The thing is, if you think about it... if Celice and Yuria did have a kid, there's every bit the chance the Lopt blood would be stronger in their child and continue to get stronger until Loptous could make his next grand entry. Not even just that, but if either of them had kids AT ALL, Celice is also still passing on Lopt blood. Again, regardless of how thinly, it was in Diadora's blood, and just because Celice is major Baldo doesn't mean the Lopt blood just disappeared from his body altogether. His lineage, and Yuria's if she happened to have had one (speaking game wise since as stated previously here Celice/Yuria is the Celice ship in this manga), no matter what would have Lopt blood continue in it for at least a little while... and the blood from dragons is stronger than human blood, so I assume it'd last longer in terms of generations.

If it was kept hidden from the public that Diadora had minor Lopt blood, then people wouldn't know about Celice either. It makes you wonder though how they'd feel about him if they knew, and if they'd seriously treat him differently. Since Celice pretty presumably ends up with Yuria anyway in the manga (like serious yolo at that point because it's like well fuck revelations at this point, I've known you longer than that), there is, again, that matter of Lopt blood being even stronger between them than if they had separate lineages.

Unfortunately this is exactly the shit Manfloy was going for and them falling for each other could literally end up Alvis/Diadora all over again in future generations without him even having to do anything this time.

You know, this might've even been what Kaga meant in a way when he said Holsety unintentionally set up the stage for the next tragedy...

My point about the Irish Mythology above.

[Jugdral Defender]

Alvis isn't getting redemption through anyone but himself.

I was talking about Kaga's dream scenario about Azel understanding his brother, because he clearly isn't doing that in the manga. That was my point.

I don't really care what your views are on my favorite character when it comes to sympathy (as you've stated you're irritated by me sympathizing with a character I enjoy). I will continue to have sympathy for my favorite character because that is how I feel about his situation. If you get irritated reading other people's opinions, you shouldn't read people's commentary on manga. The portrayals in this manga are not all the same as the game. I will give him more pity because he is my favorite, and because I see reason to.

First of all, he has been away from his brothers for years, without proper contact, and a long period of doubt that has just passed beforehand. Not even the strongest kind of bond can stay perfect in this case.

Absolutely not true. It depends on the person. Levin and Fury were also without contact for years, whether a couple to a few, and still fell in love mutually.

Dew was separated from Brigid as per Brigid going missing and his feelings did not lessen.

Fin was apart from Oifaye and his other friends for years (over ten), but that didn't make his relationships any weaker. If anything, they were strengthened.

If the person someone was apart from really meant something to them, they wouldn't just drop their friendship or any kind of feelings for that person. In a situation like FE4, where people are scattered and apart from people close to them by circumstance, because of how things happened, it only enforced the closeness of the relationships of all sorts.

Again, I'm speaking about the manga, so not only is FE5 irrelevant here, but I was simply stating I wish Azel's characterization had gone in the direction of Kaga's dream scenario. In the manga, he states Alvis has changed, i.e. as he said, the Alvis of the past would never have been like this. Kaga's dream scenario Azel wanted to understand the truth because he knew things weren't right, that something was horribly wrong, and he wanted to get to the bottom of it. Oosawa's Azel simply acknowledges the change and leaves, but ultimately realizes while talking to Reptor that he may have been the one to betray Alvis. Alvis changed based on the unfortunate circumstances around him, and he's had a lot more hell in his life than just the stuff that's taking place in the present.

What I was saying in my post there was that I wish I saw the side of Azel that Kaga thought about. There were things I wanted to see in this manga that I unfortunately did not get to see.

The reason I will continue to sympathize most prominently with Alvis is because I know he isn't perfect, and I know he knows he did the wrong thing. He made mistakes and realized that. I'm not saying I defend every single thing he ever did, because no, killing Sigurd wasn't right... even if I will continue to make my bias jokes. Ever wonder why we all agreed on Fala Scans when this team was formed? Alvis was a nice, big portion of it! That aside, I defend Alvis' characterization while understanding what he did wrong. I am not blindly defending him and am standing by him while accepting his faults... so if you're so irritated by my opinions, nobody is forcing you to read them. These discussions will absolutely not be the last time you see me talking highly about Alvis. I'm sure you would defend your favorite character too while accepting their faults.

My suggestion to you is not to read my comments if you're so bothered by them. I'm entitled to my opinions no matter who doesn't agree with them, and I'm plenty aware of the things Alvis has done. That has never stopped him from being my preferred character. It's one thing to say "I disagree with your opinion", but to say you're irritated by it tells me you shouldn't even read my opinions.

Edited July 7, 2016 by Jugdral Defender

[ChildofDain]

One of the running themes of FE4 is also 'this character, had they been born elsewhere, might have been truly good'.

Alvis is a good man born into circumstances beyond his control and forced into a situation he does not want. While he did a lot of awful things and allowed a lot more, it was because there weren't any other options. Remember, his rule was a fair and just one until the Lopt Sect finally revived Loptous through Yurius and things started to fall apart. I feel he is honestly a sympathetic character. He did everything he could to ensure Tyrfing returned to its proper bloodline and to curb the child hunts under the Sects' nose.

Trabant is the same... he is a man with the best intentions for his country and people born into a situation where he feels the only way out is through awful actions. In the eyes of Thracians he was a good and just ruler - until the Lopt Sect wormed its way into Thracia via the Empire. Their manipulation turned him from an idealist to yet another pawn.

And this is shown throughout the series with many of the rulers. Many of them had good intentions but found themselves as pawns in a greater game and this isn't broken until the children are able to rise up and, with no strings attached to them, take back the future.

Even Manfloy is, at his core, a victim of circumstance. He wanted to make a world where people of his bloodline were no longer persecuted, hunted down and slaughtered. He went about this in the worst possible way and set up the downfall of everyone else in the process, but that's the tragedy in this story. Everyone is a victim of their circumstance and bloodline and people who would otherwise be heroes become villains.

[Jugdral Defender]

Alvis was more or less forced to make miserable choices due to his situation, and the fact is, he was being pressed. Manfloy kept nudging him with "hurry or he'll steal her away". He's in an extremely emotional state by this point (thus his way of thinking is in the direction of emotion and not complete logic), and this is something he has to do anyway. Manfloy wouldn't let Sigurd surviving slide regardless of whether or not Alvis had some kind of emotional conflict against him. Also, the fact is, Azel would be in danger if Alvis told him what was really going on with Manfloy. If he told Azel the whole truth, that would defeat the entire purpose of Alvis going out of his way to protect Azel.

Not only did Alvis later, as along with the game, free the children of the chapter ten timeline, but he handed Tyrfing to

a certain someone not just a palette swap NPC,

and he knew he had to take the fall as the villain. He did everything he could for the people of Grandbell, trying to protect them from the Sect until it just wasn't possible and it was out of his hands entirely.

As far as Alvis and Azel's relationship goes, that's mostly where I wanted to see the what ifs. In fact, the majority of the post in question regarding this discussion was about their relationship. It doesn't matter if Alvis was sympathetic or not, because that wasn't the point of the post that was quoted. If anything, it was about how I wanted to see Azel portrayed.

When you realize how loyal and devoted to his god Manfloy is, can you imagine if he was on Sigurd's side? You just don't find that devotion and dedication anywhere. Unfortunately Manfloy is TOO invested in Loptous and anyone who doesn't bow to Loptous needs to die as per Manfloy's views. Manfloy could have been sympathetic, but he didn't turn out that way.

Edited July 7, 2016 by Jugdral Defender

[ChildofDain]

The current chapter is experiencing a slight delay for a pretty hilarious (imo) reason:

I injured myself while cleaning it.

No, not my wrist. I was sitting on my foot and it fell asleep, when I went to stand up I stood on it funny and cracked a minor bone in my foot. My entire ankle and calf is swollen!

Barhara Casualty Toll: 1 klutz dragon knight

Edited July 19, 2016 by ChildofDain

[Jugdral Defender]

We were so close to finishing it, too.

Unfortunately miss Dain suffered a grave injury during the Battle of Barhara.

She will try to continue her efforts asap because she knows Alvis is so worth it.

I don't actually know if that last part is true, but I'm saying it is. Because it is true.

This chapter feat. "Long live Lord Alvis!"

Also Levin is rly cute.

[TheEnd]

You don't need your feet to cle- Get well soon.

Can't wait to see people's reactions to Oosawa's depiction of the Battle of Barhara.

[Yoshi2398]

so i guess you could say the battle of bellhalla has claimed yet another victim.

but seriously hope it isn't too bad, sounds like the kinda thing i would do in all honesty

[ChildofDain]

Fortunately I only cracked the bone, I didn't break anything.

Unfortunately my home work space is not suitable for a person who has to put their leg up on a cushion to draw at.

orz