Great Geargia Gateway Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 (edited) Let me rephrase that. What would make his fighting style unique in Smash Bros? I mean, anyone can use a weapon and whack people with it, that's extremely basic. Let's look at SSB4's newcomers - Rosalina and Luma: Fights with a defensive puppeteer style and has a godly u-air. Bowser Jr.: Has two separate hurboxes that take different damage and is the only character where every last attack is disjointed. Greninja: A cool character who's even more ninja-like than Sheik. Robin: Has a variety of weapons with limited uses. Palutena: Has amazing reach with smash attacks and lots of unique custom moves. Villager: The ultimate camper. Can plant trees and steal projectiles. Little Mac: Incredibly strong on the ground, incredibly weak in the air. Wii Fit Trainer: Has many double hitboxes on attacks. Shulk: Can use Monado Arts to change his entire style. Duck Hunt: Combines projectiles for amazing zoning. Mega Man: Has a massive, versatile range of projectiles. Pac-Man: Has versatile special moves, but all of them can be turned against him. Ryu: Complicates the controls, destroying the original purpose of Super Smash Bros. As you can see, every newcomer brings something new to the table. What would Shovel Knight bring? I haven't played his game yet, so I don't know about all his purchasable spells and abilities. Give me a short phrase or sentence describing his fighting style. RosaLuma - Defensive? I could argue that. Palutena - No seriously, just another generic character. Robin - Variety of 'Weapons'? Suuure. *Link Laughs* Duck Hunt - Zoning? Samus, and the Link's were doing if before it was cool. Greninja - More Ninja than Sheik? That doesn't bring anything!! Ryu - Destroy's the original purpose of Smash? The whole point is knocking out the opponent. Ryu still does that but has something other characters don't. Like the way L.Mac has a KO gauge. Lucina, Dark Pit are new. But yeaaahh... Not everyone needs to be unique. As long as there plays are different. Fox and Falco. Link and Tink are the same but are different. C.Falcon and Falcondorf. You haven't played SK? What are you on about? (I derailed) Edited August 28, 2015 by Great Geargia Gateway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 (edited) I'd think he'd be a short super heavy character with some unconventional projectiles, I dunno, I'm sure a game designer could up with something good, there's a lot more to work with than someone like Captain Falcon or Fox. I made a full moveset on my moveset thread, it might only be a page back, why don't you go look there so I can stop answering dumb questions. Edited August 28, 2015 by Knight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zera Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Ryu - Destroy's the original purpose of Smash? The whole point is knocking out the opponent. Ryu still does that but has something other characters don't. Like the way L.Mac has a KO gauge. Actually, the original purpose of Smash was to create a unique fighting game that would be based more on strategy than execution - a game that anyone could pick up, play, and have fun in the first ten minutes. Sakurai has stated this himself, but I forgot where. The increasing skill floor of fighting games was something Sakurai specifically wanted to avoid. But now Ryu's in Smash and he's mucking it up. Get your quarter-circles out of my Smash! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Nobody who picks up the game in the first 10 minutes is going to be playing competitively, there are plenty of other characters to choose for beginners to learn and master. If they're dead set on maining Ryu, they will practice enough to get good at him, simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Actually, the original purpose of Smash was to create a unique fighting game that would be based more on strategy than execution - a game that anyone could pick up, play, and have fun in the first ten minutes. Sakurai has stated this himself, but I forgot where. The increasing skill floor of fighting games was something Sakurai specifically wanted to avoid. But now Ryu's in Smash and he's mucking it up. Get your quarter-circles out of my Smash! Ryu isn't even complicated to use in Smash though, considering they kept out his more complicated inputs anyways. Point still stand as is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 That's right. I have a friend who comes over and when we play Smash he plays Ryu, and he doesn't have any trouble. He doesn't use the special inputs, but he's still able to play competently enough in our free for alls. He's much better than my other friend who mains Little Mac and actually owns the game on his 3DS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zera Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 My problem is that Ryu's moves are weaker without the special inputs. Locking a move's full power behind a needless execution barrier is the antithesis of Smash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 (edited) My problem is that Ryu's moves are weaker without the special inputs. Locking a move's full power behind a needless execution barrier is the antithesis of Smash. Being true to a characters origins is the thesis of smash however, I could also apply this argument to Shulk saying that his Monado Arts are too complex for smash brothers, or that the Ice Climbers were too complicated for Melee/Brawl. It sounds more like you just have to get better at doing them. Edited August 29, 2015 by Jedi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solrocknroll Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Shantae. No offense to Shovel Knight, but he's had one game, and unlike Xenoblade which is first party, beloved, sold well, got a port, and is just all around amazing, he's just a rando Indie who got an amiibo. Meanwhile Shantae is completely unique, would be super fun, has had a MUCH better history, and is overall better. No contest. why would you not pick Shantae is the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Being true to a characters origins is the thesis of smash however, I could also apply this argument to Shulk saying that his Monado Arts are too complex for smash brothers, or that the Ice Climbers were too complicated for Melee/Brawl. It sounds more like you just have to get better at doing them. Sakurai literally designed Smash with the stated intent of simplifying the then-ubiquitous controls of fighting games into something easier and intuitive to create a game with both a high skill floor but also a high skill ceiling (I would say he succeeded) Ryu's alt inputs go directly against this. whether or not it is too much, or even if it matters, is completely up in the air, but regardless, it does go contrary to the original control scheme design philosophy. Smash had gameplay and overall design created before it had Nintendo characters at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renvalt Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I'm gonna go Shantae on this. Her design can appeal to both sides of the gamer world (her design IS very "anime", which would help appeal East-side; and she's also powerful enough to appeal to some of the more "hardline" female-character advocates), she has console loyalty (that she only broke due to making herself have more ease-of-access), her playstyle is different enough to actually make her unique in either direction (whether she goes TPC or HGH mode), and her parent dev company hasn't been sitting on its ass simplying relying on only her (something Yacht Club is VERY guilty of).Shovel Knight would effectively be a mix of Marth/Shulk (with the Shovel swinging), Megaman (with the whole "different relics" thing and not to mention his color scheme), Wario (with that strut walk of his, which actually seems more like Arthur's walk from Ghosts & Goblins, another Capcom game that rarely gets any mention despite it being one of Cappy's old relics), and Samus (what with the whole "faceless" helmet thing).In addition, Shovel Knight's devs had put FAR more effort into the XBOX One "console exclusive secret boss fight" (which neither the 3DS nor Wii U versions got), and who other did they put in than the Battletoads, made by - wait for it - Rare Ltd, a company that Nintendo once called friend and comrade (a lot of Donkey Kong material in the SNES era until the GCN/Wii era had Rare's stamp on it, not to mention Killer Instinct - which was once a Nintendo 3rd Party IP - went and ditched Nintendo for Microsoft). And as I said earlier, Yacht Club has also been relying too heavily on their one trick pony; their portfolio only has Shovel Knight on it, and they seem to have very little (if any at all) interest in bridging this whole "Western gamer VS Eastern gamer" culture gap.Also, I don't believe Yacht Club was as eager to have their mascot in Smash (though I could be very wrong about this), whereas Shantae's devs were literally as giddy as a schoolgirl about the prospect (I think they also pitched in their own concept on her alt colors as well - again, don't quote me on this particular bit, I could be wrong).But yeah, if anyone deserves it, I think it'd be Shantae. She's the one 3rd party I'd expect to remain faithful to Nintendo to a certain degree, compared to that turncoat spade-wielder wanting to be the champion of the Retro-Style (when he's just one mascot that copied that particular style and got lucky on the fan love, compared to other companies that TRIED and failed to achieve that level of fame and notoriety). Shantae's worked twice as hard as Shovel Knight; three games and only now is she getting any real exposure (first two games flopped due to end of life cycle and handheld infamy, in order). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jave Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Also, I don't believe Yacht Club was as eager to have their mascot in Smash (though I could be very wrong about this), whereas Shantae's devs were literally as giddy as a schoolgirl about the prospect (I think they also pitched in their own concept on her alt colors as well - again, don't quote me on this particular bit, I could be wrong). No, you're correct. This is the image they pitched, which was first posted in WayForward's official Twitter: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deviddo Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I suppose Shovel Knight, but honestly I have yet to play either of the games. I have issues with Shantae's character design, specifically the more recent games she has been in, but I'm sure I'll step on some toes so I'll keep them to myself. I'd much rather see Quote from Cave Story, really. I suppose he's old news now but a few years ago Cave Story was THE Indie Game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jave Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I presume that by design you mean the way she dresses, which I feel a lot of people make a huge deal out of what's essentially a non-issue. If her top really poses a problem with the rating systems, they can easily fix that by giving her one that shows less cleavage. Her pants are far less revealing in comparison to characters that are already in the game, so I don't see a problem there, specially when we have Sport Suit Samus and Swimming Trunks Shulk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renvalt Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) I presume that by design you mean the way she dresses, which I feel a lot of people make a huge deal out of what's essentially a non-issue. If her top really poses a problem with the rating systems, they can easily fix that by giving her one that shows less cleavage. Her pants are far less revealing in comparison to characters that are already in the game, so I don't see a problem there, specially when we have Sport Suit Samus and Swimming Trunks Shulk. Actually, I find her arabesque design to be quite cool looking. And as a whole I generally don't see Nintendo chars in a sexual manner (this extends even to FE chars, oddly enough). The whole "design" quirk was aimed more at the SJW crowd that seem to hate anything Nintendo does with their women, period. Then again, I'm seeing quite a few peeps hating on Nintendo for some of the craziest reasons (maybe some are legit, but others are all "Huh?"). But no, seriously - that top should have no problem making it in as is. I can't really see Shantae that way, and I for one am a sucker for puffy pants (though you'll never hear me admit it in public). P.S. Forgot to mention that Shovel Knight was created by an ex-WayForward developer (major turncoat alarms triggered). So this is really like a faction war if I do say so myself. Shantae really should reinforce that loyalty clause - it may offer her allies in the long run against Herr Dirtdigger. Edited September 2, 2015 by Renvalt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Yacht Club Games has been very supportive of their character in Smash on Twitter, they said so at the beginning of the ballot and they've retweeted moveset ideas from fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zera Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 No, you're correct. This is the image they pitched, which was first posted in WayForward's official Twitter: http://i.imgur.com/z1VMgGx.png Shantae has some sweet alternate costumes. My vote is now doubled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jave Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Shantae finally has a confirmed release in Japan, with Pirate's Curse getting a PHYSICAL release on the 3DS on November 19. http://game.intergrow.jp/shantae-pirates-curse/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Mage Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) Now that I think about it, what do the japanese think of Shantae and Shovel Knight? If I'm not mistaken Shovel Knight wasn't released in Japan, and only now Shantae is going to Japan. But even so, they must have heard of these characters, which makes me really curious. Does anyone know how Japan thinks of these characters? Edited September 17, 2015 by Water Mage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) Shovel Knight's still in the process of localization to Japan IIRC (It's a longer process). I can't really imagine what the Japanese probably think, though I'd imagine Shantae might do a little better. Edited September 17, 2015 by Knight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jave Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Shantae has a small following in Japan who want her games localized. It's obviously nothing sizable, but big enough considering it's a character with no games released yet in Japan. Also, since Pirate's Curse is getting a physical release there, it will be trackable in the Media Create sales, which should give us a glimpse of her popularity over there. I know of two Nintendo-related devs who are Shantae fans: Ken Sugimori (Pokemon Co-creator/Designer) and Ko Takeuchi (WarioWare/Rhythm Heaven Character Designer). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busterman64 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I've never played either Shovel Knight or Shantae, but I've seen gameplay of SK and seen a playthrough of all 3 Shantae games on youtube. I may be a bit bias, but I personally prefer Shantae. This is probably because I've seen almost everything Shantae can do, and her personality helps too! She seems like she would fit in a lot better than Shovel Knight, although, if somehow they BOTH got in, I would fine with that (and almost everyone wins)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAssassinMercenary Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 And now there are even more Shovel Knight rumors. Great... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viberum Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I like Shovel Knight. Shovel Knight even got his own Amiibo! His game is also super good and amazing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 And now there are even more Shovel Knight rumors. Great...Are these new or are you just commenting about stuff already said in this thread? Should probably reply in tags either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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