LTC FE3 Book 1 & Book 2 Low Turns Run (BOOK 1 COMPLETE)

[General Horace]

It was just a planning run for a run I was going to do. Abel got a few fabulous skil/lck/wlvl levels so Roshea was better than him when he joined and Roshea actually has pretty good growths in FE3 book 1 (he's pretty much Abel with 10% higher HP and defence in exchange for 10% less speed) so I thought i'd use him instead. I made some minor mistakes (giving Barst exp was probably not needed, I recall needing another 8 move indoor unit so a promoted Ogma might have been needed?)

[Topazd]

I'm pretty sure Heroes only have 7 move in FE3.

[General Horace]

Oh, so they do. Maybe I just needed an Ogma with decent enough stats, I forget. I planned the run like 2 years ago. How are you allocating warp uses?

[SSJDennis]

Wow. That looked liked Wendells chapter in Shadow Dragon, but instead you get Matthis and Merric AND the Wolf Guard? Strange. Wonder how Wendells stage will look like then.

No clue how to improve it, but that video felt a bit slowish. Anything you think you could've done faster?

[Nobody]

Wow. That looked liked Wendells chapter in Shadow Dragon, but instead you get Matthis and Merric AND the Wolf Guard? Strange. Wonder how Wendells stage will look like then.

No clue how to improve it, but that video felt a bit slowish. Anything you think you could've done faster?

That is the chapter in which you get Wendell in FE1 and FE11 (you also get the wolfguard in it), but on FE3 you get him in the next chapter, in the same cell than Rickard.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Nobody

[Espinosa]

Oh, so they do. Maybe I just needed an Ogma with decent enough stats, I forget. I planned the run like 2 years ago. How are you allocating warp uses?

It's something like:

5 - 1

6 - 1

7 - 1

8 - 1

9 - 1

10 - 2 (now going for a 1-turn)

16 - 1

17 - 2

18 - 1

19 - 1

20 - 2

I seem to have 2 Warp uses surplus with this plan. The first one (from the first staff) could go to either Paola's chapter or the desert, while the second one could be used for a 1-turn of Gharnef's map (easiest thing ever and doesn't require a bulky Marth).

wait, I can't count, only the first Warp use has an extra use. So Marth will have to endure the attacks of everyone in Gharnef's map.

[General Horace]

I don't know if my planning here is more efficient, but this is what I had (also I don't think skipping the boots in chapter 10 is a good idea)

5 - (6/7 uses left)

6 - (5/7)

7 - (4/7)

8 - (3/7)

9 - (2/7)

10 - (1/7)

13 - warp 1 breaks

15 - (6/7) (warp bantu)

16 - 2 warps (4/7)

17 - (3/7)

19 - (2/7)

20 - 2 warps warp 2 breaks

Not using Warp in chapter 13 without the boots while recruiting samson/arran + chainey is not a good plan, with one warp it takes 4 turns.

Edited September 16, 2015 by General Horace

[Espinosa]

I haven't seriously considered foregoing the Boots either. The running around Marth has to do midgame is too important, and 11 move gets to places way faster than 7 move.

How exactly are you 4-turning Chainey's map with a single Warp? Really can't imagine this being possible no matter how you bend the strat.

Will you get the Earth Orb/Geosphere for Mediuth by warping Banutu for a 4-turn? This only saves 7 turns if Marth is able to seize on turn 4, which I'm not sure he will.

What exactly is being achieved by double-warping Camus's map? Is the second Warp for the bosskiller (and if so, who)?

Your thoughts about Michael's chapter? Topazd and I have discovered the issue of the enemies clogging up the seize gate on turn 1 in the event that Michael dies. A normal, much more fragile Marth has trouble penetrating the defences of the foes attacking him, too. Seems like a double-warp is in order tbqh.

[General Horace]

I haven't seriously considered foregoing the Boots either. The running around Marth has to do midgame is too important, and 11 move gets to places way faster than 7 move.

How exactly are you 4-turning Chainey's map with a single Warp? Really can't imagine this being possible no matter how you bend the strat.

Will you get the Earth Orb/Geosphere for Mediuth by warping Banutu for a 4-turn? This only saves 7 turns if Marth is able to seize on turn 4, which I'm not sure he will.

What exactly is being achieved by double-warping Camus's map? Is the second Warp for the bosskiller (and if so, who)?

Your thoughts about Michael's chapter? Topazd and I have discovered the issue of the enemies clogging up the seize gate on turn 1 in the event that Michael dies. A normal, much more fragile Marth has trouble penetrating the defences of the foes attacking him, too. Seems like a double-warp is in order tbqh.

Marth reaches Samson's village on turn 2. Wendall (or Boa) warps Marth across onto the bosses island within range of Chainey on turn 3. Between Marth and your 5 fliers you should be able to kill the boss and Chainey recruits himself on turn 3 EP. Minerva has to fly south and open the door on turn 1 (she's the only unit with the movement) allowing Chainey to move as far as possible on the first two turns, and he runs across water fairly well.

I think this is where I needed a good Ogma. Marth starts within 30something tiles of the throne (so seizeable on turn 4 with 11 move). He also starts exactly 22 spaces away from the northwestern most door (with the star/lightsphere room behind it) and can open it on turn 2. Samson/Astria start as far ahead as possible and kill one of the mercs with thunder swords (you have two) and they are close enough to make it to the light/star orbs even if they don't quite fullmove every turn (they have to be able to kill a hero in the way though, Samson should be good enough with some EP help from another unit). Julian can easily get the Earth Orb on his own (along with an angelic robe that Marth can use on turn 4 of this chapter if you fill his inventory to help with his survival in Michalis's chapter). Other seven move units can get the dragon whip and speed ring (buy chest keys!) and Rickard can get the bishop ring.

My initial thought on double warping camus's map is because its just the last remaining warp use that actually saves more than 1 turn (2 warps in Gharnef's chapter saves a single turn on a single warp, while Camus's saves two, you can technically double warp Chiki's chapter in 2 turns (getting the earth orb) but you really want the other items too, and it saves the same number of turns. Camus's map goes down to three turns (Camus isn't too hard to kill). Marth is warped to Est's village, and she puts Mercurius in the supply, Marth runs back towards everyone else, and gets warped on turn 3 near the boss (Minerva and Sheeda can clear out the initial enemies on turn 2, or just wait out of range if you're scared of death, and one of them kills the Paladin in front of Camus, Marth is warped to the tile 1D1L of Camus, and the other takes Mercurius out and kills him pretty easily with it (they need 16 strength to ORKO and Minerva needs a power ring for chapter 11 if you don't want to rig a really really low% crit anyway, and she still gains a lot of strength), alternatively Sheeda has pretty good crit with a Marth support anyway.

Do the enemies just sit on the gate and not attack? Otherwise Marth should be able to kill them. With Mercurius (you don't need it past this chapter anyway if it takes a beating) and he can blick Michalis on turn 1 with it (he can have been fed two skill books by this point if he hasn't proc'd much luck, so that's at the worst 16 skill (probably 20, lets be real) versus his 8 luck. He can be physic'd up to full health and survive pretty easily i'd think against the remaining enemies with likely capped speed and luck (who else needs the goddess icons?) It's definately nowhere near as bad as the chapter 5 bosskill.

Marth should at the very least be taking these boosters by that chapter: 1 Robe, 1 Dracoshield, 1/2 Skill books, 1/2 Goddess Icons, possibly 1 speed ring if he's not capped and he should be hovering around level 15 or so by that point, and even an average Marth would hover around 38 HP/13 defence, and this is without massaging growths at all.

this is just from looking at the maps, I can open my notes (or just post them with the saves if you want) when I get home

Edited September 16, 2015 by General Horace

[Topazd]

Yeah, it works if Marth kills Michalis from the tile right of the throne - if he's on either the tile left or down from him, enemies start blocking the throne, oddly enough. As long as he has no more than 14 def and can kill + survive every enemy that approaches, the throne is accessible on the next turn.

I tested that with a 14 def and everything else capped Marth, so I wasn't sure how realistically executable it'd be within the restraints of this run. Though if he actually ends up with all the stats and boosters you outlined, I can see it happening.

Oh, and one can afford burning Hammerne on actual weapons here, so Mercurius' durability shouldn't be an issue in any scenario.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Topazd

[Irysa]

It was just a planning run for a run I was going to do. Abel got a few fabulous skil/lck/wlvl levels so Roshea was better than him when he joined and Roshea actually has pretty good growths in FE3 book 1 (he's pretty much Abel with 10% higher HP and defence in exchange for 10% less speed) so I thought i'd use him instead. I made some minor mistakes (giving Barst exp was probably not needed, I recall needing another 8 move indoor unit so a promoted Ogma might have been needed?)

Minor nitpick but Roshea's wlevel growth is trash compared to Abel's too, so he might not be able to use Gradivus later on. That's pretty much all though.

[General Horace]

Minor nitpick but Roshea's wlevel growth is trash compared to Abel's too, so he might not be able to use Gradivus later on. That's pretty much all though.

It's not a huge deal, it's only avaliable for 2 outdoor maps anyway and one of them has a huge mountain in the middle, so a dracoknight uses it way better anyway.

But your point still stands.

[Espinosa]

Minor nitpick but Roshea's wlevel growth is trash compared to Abel's too, so he might not be able to use Gradivus later on. That's pretty much all though.

There's not much use for the Gradivus in the hands of a mounted unit. Doga can slay Mediuth with it, and any good flier can KO the boss of the penultimate chapter with it, but that's about it really.

Oh, and one can afford burning Hammerne on actual weapons here, so Mercurius' durability shouldn't be an issue in any scenario.

Eh, Marth might as well break it while fighting the enemies around Michael (as long as they die and don't occupy the gate). Since Kashim is killing the boss and all.

Marth reaches Samson's village on turn 2. Wendall (or Boa) warps Marth across onto the bosses island within range of Chainey on turn 3. Between Marth and your 5 fliers you should be able to kill the boss and Chainey recruits himself on turn 3 EP. Minerva has to fly south and open the door on turn 1 (she's the only unit with the movement) allowing Chainey to move as far as possible on the first two turns, and he runs across water fairly well.

What exactly is Chainey's trajectory of movement after turn 1 (when I assume he closes in on Minerva)? Does he immediately dive into water on turn 2 if Marth's just recruited Samson?

I think this is where I needed a good Ogma. Marth starts within 30something tiles of the throne (so seizeable on turn 4 with 11 move). He also starts exactly 22 spaces away from the northwestern most door (with the star/lightsphere room behind it) and can open it on turn 2. Samson/Astria start as far ahead as possible and kill one of the mercs with thunder swords (you have two) and they are close enough to make it to the light/star orbs even if they don't quite fullmove every turn (they have to be able to kill a hero in the way though, Samson should be good enough with some EP help from another unit). Julian can easily get the Earth Orb on his own (along with an angelic robe that Marth can use on turn 4 of this chapter if you fill his inventory to help with his survival in Michalis's chapter). Other seven move units can get the dragon whip and speed ring (buy chest keys!) and Rickard can get the bishop ring.

I haven't actually considered getting Light/Star Orbs, but now that you mention it, the former will allow a much easier time against Camus and the latter will let Marth counter with the Mercurius without breaking it in Michael's chapter.

I guess George could be a good unit on this map? Good combat with Partia and 7 move. I wonder if we should be worried about the enemies near Chiki massacring Marth (they ignored Marth when he had 20 def/res, but that doesn't really say anything about an actual real run). My Oguma is pretty crappy and can't be relied upon really.

My initial thought on double warping camus's map is because its just the last remaining warp use that actually saves more than 1 turn (2 warps in Gharnef's chapter saves a single turn on a single warp, while Camus's saves two, you can technically double warp Chiki's chapter in 2 turns (getting the earth orb) but you really want the other items too, and it saves the same number of turns. Camus's map goes down to three turns (Camus isn't too hard to kill). Marth is warped to Est's village, and she puts Mercurius in the supply, Marth runs back towards everyone else, and gets warped on turn 3 near the boss (Minerva and Sheeda can clear out the initial enemies on turn 2, or just wait out of range if you're scared of death, and one of them kills the Paladin in front of Camus, Marth is warped to the tile 1D1L of Camus, and the other takes Mercurius out and kills him pretty easily with it (they need 16 strength to ORKO and Minerva needs a power ring for chapter 11 if you don't want to rig a really really low% crit anyway, and she still gains a lot of strength), alternatively Sheeda has pretty good crit with a Marth support anyway.

I don't think the Earth Orb can be obtained before turn 3...

How does the 2warp in Camus's chapter save 2 turns? With a single Warp, Marth seizes on turn 4 after reaching Est's village naturally on turn 3. With the double Warp, he seizes on turn 3. So that's a 1-turn shave, and the map is significantly harder than other maps where an extra shot of Warp shaves off just one turn.

You also mention how easy Camus is to kill. Without the Light Orb, you have to connect two attacks against 65 avo which is a pretty big deal. You need to deal 36 dmg per hit to 2HKO him, so 16 str on the flier attacking with the Miracle Sword, and 19 spd needed to double. Because DKs lose stats upon dismounting, the flier in question needs 19 str and 20+2 spd as a Draco to carry out this plan. I suppose if the bosskill takes place on PP, nothing is stopping from having Sheeda and Minerva cooperate for the kill, which they can do with something like a Knight Killer, which is actually awfully similar to Mercurius / Miracle Sword here in terms of mt / hit / AS.

Do the enemies just sit on the gate and not attack? Otherwise Marth should be able to kill them. With Mercurius (you don't need it past this chapter anyway if it takes a beating) and he can blick Michalis on turn 1 with it (he can have been fed two skill books by this point if he hasn't proc'd much luck, so that's at the worst 16 skill (probably 20, lets be real) versus his 8 luck. He can be physic'd up to full health and survive pretty easily i'd think against the remaining enemies with likely capped speed and luck (who else needs the goddess icons?) It's definately nowhere near as bad as the chapter 5 bosskill.

Chapter 5's RNG quickly complied on my run, and you only had to worry about being attacked by 3 mooks. But yeah, assuming a good Marth, the odds of success should be better there.

edit: Also, what's the problem with chapter 11's reliability? This seemed like such a simple map.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Espinosa

[General Horace]

There's not much use for the Gradivus in the hands of a mounted unit. Doga can slay Mediuth with it, and any good flier can KO the boss of the penultimate chapter with it, but that's about it really.

Eh, Marth might as well break it while fighting the enemies around Michael (as long as they die and don't occupy the gate). Since Kashim is killing the boss and all.

What exactly is Chainey's trajectory of movement after turn 1 (when I assume he closes in on Minerva)? Does he immediately dive into water on turn 2 if Marth's just recruited Samson?

I haven't actually considered getting Light/Star Orbs, but now that you mention it, the former will allow a much easier time against Camus and the latter will let Marth counter with the Mercurius without breaking it in Michael's chapter.

I guess George could be a good unit on this map? Good combat with Partia and 7 move. I wonder if we should be worried about the enemies near Chiki massacring Marth (they ignored Marth when he had 20 def/res, but that doesn't really say anything about an actual real run). My Oguma is pretty crappy and can't be relied upon really.

I don't think the Earth Orb can be obtained before turn 3...

How does the 2warp in Camus's chapter save 2 turns? With a single Warp, Marth seizes on turn 4 after reaching Est's village naturally on turn 3. With the double Warp, he seizes on turn 3. So that's a 1-turn shave, and the map is significantly harder than other maps where an extra shot of Warp shaves off just one turn.

You also mention how easy Camus is to kill. Without the Light Orb, you have to connect two attacks against 65 avo which is a pretty big deal. You need to deal 36 dmg per hit to 2HKO him, so 16 str on the flier attacking with the Miracle Sword, and 19 spd needed to double. Because DKs lose stats upon dismounting, the flier in question needs 19 str and 20+2 spd as a Draco to carry out this plan. I suppose if the bosskill takes place on PP, nothing is stopping from having Sheeda and Minerva cooperate for the kill, which they can do with something like a Knight Killer, which is actually awfully similar to Mercurius / Miracle Sword here in terms of mt / hit / AS.

Chapter 5's RNG quickly complied on my run, and you only had to worry about being attacked by 3 mooks. But yeah, assuming a good Marth, the odds of success should be better there.

edit: Also, what's the problem with chapter 11's reliability? This seemed like such a simple map.

Chainey moves next to Miverna (providing she kills the Silver Sword hero), then idk where exactly but he only has a two movement cost on the water so he crosses it pretty easily. It's not an issue.

You're right about the earth orb. Can't warpskip this map.

I derped and didn't think about just running Wendall/Boa to the village and warping. I had him being warped and running to the throne. I really don't think Camus is a very big problem, if you have Sheeda fight him, even without the lightsphere, she has Marth support and probably capped skill. I don't think he's an issue. But wrt to Warp, every map after chapter 14 (not including Tiki's map) a double warp only saves a single turn on a single warp. Maybe it's better to skip Michalis's map to avoid all the enemy phase stuff, I don't think Marth needs to kill any tough bosses or do anything really past that chapter, so he doesn't really need the exp.

Chapter 11 Marth has so much more movement than everybody (you have to dismount to get into the boss area) that he runs too fast ahead and the boss is pretty physically tough. Minerva had to take a power ring so her and Astria (with the Thunder Sword) could combine for the kill, and so she could kill the hero that attacks her after Astria opens the door. I doubt even if she's got strength every level (she won't have gotten many by this point) that she kills either of them even with a double crit (especially with her shitty skill)

[Espinosa]

Minerva has to dismount to get inside, doesn't she? So she'll be attacking the Hero with a Silver Sword / Kill Sword, and the boss with an Armor Kill then. Will she have enough attack to do it with base atk+Power Ring (9+4)? Her levelup was admittedly very poor for meeting worthwhile stat benchmarks in the game, but I could probably squeeze in an extra level-up or two if I really have to try.

I was pretty sure there would plenty of allies to assist with the bosskill considering that Marth literally wastes the first turn to retract (instead of advancing forward) so that Paola and Katua can talk to him. How exactly do 10 move units fail to progress at the same pace as him? Though I guess Marth doesn't lose any of his mobility indoors.

[General Horace]

Actually, if you promote a Cavalier on turn 1, you can use them instead, and their stats should hopefully be sufficient to do the job. A dismounted unit as far ahead as possible on turn 3 is exactly 12 tiles from the boss, meaning only one dismounted unit (and Astria at 2 range) can fight the boss before Marth seizes. Should be less of a problem with a Paladin than Minerva too, and saves a power ring (although she might want it regardless)

[Espinosa]

There's actually no 2nd Warp left for Michael if we stick to the Warp allocation that seems the best right now:

15 - 1
16 - 1
17 - 2
18 - 1
19 - 1
20 - 2

That's 8 Warps, whereas we only have 7 if we shave off 4 (?) turns by using a Warp in Chainey's chapter. So Marth will have to solo the enemies attacking him when he kills Gharnef's clone and Michael. A Power Ring use on Marth may then be a good idea (though him having more strength may actually make survival harder for him in Gharnef's chapter because killing enemies at 1-range allows more enemies to target him on the same turn).

A Warp on Banutu in chapter 15 is probably not a bad idea even if the map can't be 4-turned for some reason (like Marth dying to the enemies there, such as those 22 atk silver sword heroes).

[General Horace]

using warp in Gharnef's chapter only saves 1 turn, don't think it's worth it.

[Espinosa]

I mean the one Warp necessary to have Marth reach the fake Gharnef on the throne and kill him on turn 1. The candle terrain blocks his way otherwise (and those enemies are p scary too). The only map we're using a doublewarp on is just the final one (where Warping cuts two turns).

Better brace ourselves for those combat-heavy turn 1 EPs in Michael's and Gharnef's chapters then. Luck will be capped by then, as will speed most probably, but raw defensive stats will be an issue for sure.

Also, wrt Marth's skill, he has only 7 points as of chapter 9, and I don't think we're getting the C14 Secret Book in our 3-turn clear of the map, so some 15-ish skill stat can probably be expected by that point.

[General Horace]

Marth can seize on turn 3 in Gharnef's chapter if Chainey copies him. It saves him from having to deal with all those mages on turn 1 EP too. I think it's better to use the warp you'd use here in Michalis's chapter for reliabilities sake (it nets the same turncount anyway).

You can get the Secret book if Chainey copies Marth and kills the thief that opens the chest.

[Espinosa]

Yeah, I almost forgot about Chainey's contributions in indoor maps... He could do some really useful things in C14/15, and I guess he could help with killing Camus too.

How will Chainey copying Marth help in chapter 18 exactly though? Just as an extra fighter with great mobility? I imagine I can give Marth a Barrier boost but not give Chainsey one so that the enemies leave Marth alone, but it's not like it's affordable if Chainey dies in Marth's place, either.

[General Horace]

Chainey needs to kill the boss so Marth can seize on turn 3. There are pure waters too, (Marth can use a pure water, Chainey get Barriered). Chainey only needs to see combat on turn 1 anyway, and its just a mage attacking him.

[Espinosa]

Chapter 5 in 2 turns; our first warpskip.

I've finally had some time to play today and cleared chapters 9/10 in the expected number of turns. Currently, I'm in chapter 11 and thinking what to do about the Power Ring I got from the mamacute in the previous chapter.

Options? The chapter 11 boss is hard to kill on the fifth turn and giving the item to freshly promoted paladin Abel allows him to deal 14x2 dmg to the boss, and 28+14 (7x2 from thunder sword Astria) is barely enough to kill the boss. It turns out thunder swords don't actually deal 10 fixed damage, like FE6's Light Brand, but 10 - res, potentially 0 to tome users. Found out the hard way when I thought I could drop my Killing Edge by taking the boss's Bolganone and countering the 2 mages and the sniper with the thunder sword, with Sheeda's support for more crit on the sniper - turns out this doesn't work also because Bolganone becomes Marth's item instead of the next weapon on the list as I've become used to when playing the later FEs meticulously.

However, thunder swords can also crit, and between Abel's 11 crit and Astria's 14 crit, we could just reset until the boss succumbs to those attacks and save it for something more important later. As for other potential recipients, well...There's Kashim who's a lv. 8 Hunter with 12 strength. Getting to 20 str may not be such a big problem considering his 60% growth in the stat, but getting to 12 wlv from the present 8 with a 20% growth to wield Partia is much harder, especially considering we missed both the Manual and the Orion Bolt that could facilitate Kashim getting more exp opportunities. Reaching 12 wlv also probably takes priority over getting to 20 str, because Partia is said to grant 2x experience, so I imagine wielding it makes it much easier to get tons of exp too. idk really.

I could give it to Marth who currently has the best dismounted combat in the party, beating Abel's (whose levelups after those shown to you on video already all sucked), but it's not him who has to kill the later bosses. His combat is already good enough to continue killing things at 1-range, so his stats should keep growing at a steady pace. Sheeda and Minerva are also good options, though Sheeda's 17 HP seriously sucks (she can't take a mamacute attack at all). I'm also thinking Paola can be a good option, as she joins with higher hp and grows strength more reliably. Paola could also be better at killing Camus considering Abel and Minerva both grant her +10 hit/avo/crit. Sheeda's spd and lck are way better though, and Paola will need to start proccing str ASAP to catch up with the few point Sheeda did gain in the early chapters.

So idk basically.

[Espinosa]

So I discovered how to 5-turn chapter 11, but it relies on Astria proccing a 24% crit. Astria then plays the biggest role in the throne room afterwards, so he's a pure genuine Hero indeed (what Oguma will never be). The bosskill seems to be less of a problem.

I really wonder if I can even get the Silver Card but then again, do I even need one? Aura and Excalibur can be sold for 10K cash, which should be sufficient for keys and silvers of all sorts. I'd sell both the Hero Proofs but it looks like items/staves cannot sold; can anyone confirm/disprove? At least the Sniper in the treasure room is stationary and won't attack even if you place a flier right next to him. Minerva should travel there right away.

Now that I think about it; there'll always be a time to sell off Marich's and Linde's tomes. Who knows; I may need Excalibur to fight armours or something (probably not though).

[Shadow Mir]

What's your anti-Mediuth strategy gonna be?

Edited September 19, 2015 by Levant Colthearts