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Crit Stacking

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If there's a potential Apotheosis 2.0, I'd imagine that they will also stack Dragonskin to all enemies, which nerfs crit damage to prevent you from one-shotting them (though I don't know the exact formula). Of course, having a crit build is still more useful than not, especially for units like Rinka or Charlotte etc.

Crits go to 1.5x damage

It still depends though.........

...Well I myself have been designing "apotheosis" style maps, though they're more or less not in the same vein as the actual apotheosis

The game in general is disgustingly rocket tag at postgame. Ingame, without breaking the game it's not that bad

Edited by CocoaGalaxy

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Arthur is amazing at crits in PvP, but he turns people off in single player as his Berserker incarnate will have effectively 0 crit evade always.

Arthur has a 90% crit on most characters minimum unless they get pair up buffs and crit evade bonuses from weapons, classes, or skills.

Oh yeah I can imagine that would be painful on classic having to restart just because his luck is spreading

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My two favorites are...

[email protected]: Deere is one of the best candidates for Great Club because his personal grants him +20 Hit in My Castle, and he can also get any class skills available to any 1st-gen females due to the fact Jakob can marry any non-Corrinsexual female. [butler's Feat]/Ogre Strike/Bind/Vantage/Tomebreaker/Galeforce is my setup for him.

[email protected]/Witch: Ophelia's personal grants her a free +10 Crit, giving her the same Crit boost as a Berserker, even as a Sorcerer or Witch. Orochi can A+ Rinkah for Ogre Strike. Odin passes Samurai. Ophelia can marry Ignis or Knight!Corrin for Defensive Formation. [blossoming Mind]/Defensive Formation/Ogre Strike/Vantage/Awakening/Roundhouse. This chick is loaded. Also, unless I'm very much mistaken, Odin's Black Tome, a higher Mt Mjolnir that can't double (which she can use without consequence due to Defensive Formation,) can be found on event tiles and is therefore infinitely forge able, however it would take a lot of luck and time.

Edited by JothTheConqueror

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If there's a potential Apotheosis 2.0, I'd imagine that they will also stack Dragonskin to all enemies, which nerfs crit damage to prevent you from one-shotting them (though I don't know the exact formula). Of course, having a crit build is still more useful than not, especially for units like Rinka or Charlotte etc.

Not that a simple Vantage+Vengeance will still take care of them. They have to be weaker since the game has nerfed many things badly enough.

however, as I pointed out, there't not much you can counter with. and it's only in PvP where you can stack all the +Crit/Hit skills on Charlotte (unless lots of early gold farming). the only sources of additional Dodge are Guard Stance 5%, Support bonuses, and some class mods. but that's still no where near ~93% from Charlotte. one concern people had in post-game was Charlotte with Rescue ferrying, making it nigh impossible to avoid confronting her on their turn (they will reach you). if any character goes for a crit build, they will have a reasonable crit% on you

sharp contrast to Awakening where the huge caps + Limit Break + support bonuses made crit build impractical because the numbers are single digit if even

It is back though it takes up to five enemies along with 5 draining skills to get it! Good! Cuz I miss Limiitbreaker so much. Though the only nerf to this is that you have no skill slots.

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Ophelia:

-Sorcerer, so Crit+10

-Blossoming Mind, so Crit+10 (+20)

-Roundhouse, so Crit+10 (+30)

-Ogre Strike, so Crit+20 (+50)

-Mjolnir/Excalibur, so Crit+25 (+75)

-Awakening, so Crit+30 (+105)

That's pretty high. I mean, the only way to do this without marrying the Avatar is to Buddy Charlotte to Rinka, learn Ogre Strike, then marry Charlotte to Odin. Still, it's better than any other magic characters can get naturally (and gives you blonde Ophelia, which is probably canon).

You could also make this into a physical Ophelia:

-Berserker, so Crit+20

-Blossoming Mind, so Crit+10 (+30)

-Roundhouse, so Crit+10 (+40)

-Ogre Strike, so Crit+20 (+60)

-Belka's Killer Axe, so Crit+30 (+90)

-Awakening, so Crit+30 (+120)

This forces you to carry three tomes, though, which mean you can only carry two axes. That could be annoying.

I do really like the prospect of Ophelia as a crit build because of her personal skill and the fact that she is already one of my favorite units although, I plan to do an Elise!Ophelia. I suppose that'd still be doable with a buddy seal on Rinkah's daughter or the daughter of anyone who had used their buddy seal on Rinkah.

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I do really like the prospect of Ophelia as a crit build because of her personal skill and the fact that she is already one of my favorite units although, I plan to do an Elise!Ophelia. I suppose that'd still be doable with a buddy seal on Rinkah's daughter or the daughter of anyone who had used their buddy seal on Rinkah.

The only way for Ophelia to get Ogre Strike is Orochi!Ophelia. There are no natural second-gen Onis, so no 2nd gen marriages or A+ supports (barring Oni!Kanna) will yield Oni.

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...Or you could just purchase it in the skill shop. Only ones in the game you cannot purchase are...

-Speed+2

-Relief

-Rally Mov

-Galeforce

-Hollowness

-Spirit Utility

-Clear Mind

-Aggressor

-Personnels

Edited by Princess_Florina

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Unfortunately the only characters I can think of who can get Ogre Strike and Berserker at the same time without Avatar/Kanna marriage are:

Charlotte (A+ Rinkah)

Charlotte!Lutz (A+ Charlotte and Rinkah for Ogre Strike)

Rinkah!Velour

Flannel (S Rinkah)

Benoit (S Rinkah)

Rinkah!Ignis

That's because no kid has Fighter or Oni Savage as their base class, so the children have to either inherit both classes (like Rinkah!Velour) or there parent has to get Ogre Strike from a Buddy Seal.

The only Nohrian characters who can get Ogre Strike at all are:

Charlotte (A+ Rinkah)

Flannel (S Rinkah)

Benoit (S Rinkah)

...and their kids, plus

Kagerou!Ophelia

Orochi!Ophelia

Since Ogre Strike is so key to crit builds, the character pool is somewhat limited if you want a Berserker. Since Awakening is also useful and can't be inherited, crit builds are ideal for female characters.

The craziest raw numbers might be:

Purchase Ogre Strike for Crimson (via someone's Avatar marriage)

Marry Crimson to Fighter!Avatar

Nab Awakening from an Exalted Emblem

Make Crimson a Berserker

-Berserker (+20)

-Roundhouse (+30)

-Ogre Strike (+50)

-Awakening (+80)

-Belka's Axe (+110)

-Conviction (+140)

Perchase Vengeance and Miracle for her as well, for low-health adventures. This probably isn't practical at all.

Edited by gayserbeam

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Unfortunately the only characters I can think of who can get Ogre Strike and Berserker at the same time without Avatar/Kanna marriage are:

Charlotte (A+ Rinkah)

Charlotte!Lutz (A+ Charlotte and Rinkah for Ogre Strike)

Rinkah!Velour

Flannel (S Rinkah)

Benoit (S Rinkah)

Rinkah!Ignis

That's because no kid has Fighter or Oni Savage as their base class, so the children have to either inherit both classes (like Rinkah!Velour) or there parent has to get Ogre Strike from a Buddy Seal.

The only Nohrian characters who can get Ogre Strike at all are:

Charlotte (A+ Rinkah)

Flannel (S Rinkah)

Benoit (S Rinkah)

...and their kids, plus

Kagerou!Ophelia

Orochi!Ophelia

Since Ogre Strike is so key to crit builds, the character pool is somewhat limited if you want a Berserker. Since Awakening is also useful and can't be inherited, crit builds are ideal for female characters.

The craziest raw numbers might be:

Purchase Ogre Strike for Crimson (via someone's Avatar marriage)

Marry Crimson to Fighter!Avatar

Nab Awakening from an Exalted Emblem

Make Crimson a Berserker

-Berserker (+20)

-Roundhouse (+30)

-Ogre Strike (+50)

-Awakening (+80)

-Belka's Axe (+110)

-Conviction (+140)

Perchase Vengeance and Miracle for her as well, for low-health adventures. This probably isn't practical at all.

...Yeah, I'd have to voice concerns on practicality too, and not just for Crimson's crit build.

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...Yeah, I'd have to voice concerns on practicality too, and not just for Crimson's crit build.

I mean... it may not be practical for single player, but you can just have Crimson be something else until PvP, which is honestly where these hyper crit focused builds will shine.

(Tho tbh, any crit build is pretty good for single too. It's not really that impractical to use a killer weapon with ogre strike on an S rank class to get a 50%+ crit rate.)

Edited by Psyruby

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I mean... it may not be practical for single player, but you can just have Crimson be something else until PvP, which is honestly where these hyper crit focused builds will shine.

(Tho tbh, any crit build is pretty good for single too. It's not really that impractical to use a killer weapon with ogre strike on an S rank class to get a 50%+ crit rate.)

It's partly the fact that I need to buy the skills from other players in Crimson's case in particular, but it's more the fact that her crit build requires me to be toeing the line where one good hit means death... in a game where Berserkers are more susceptible to critical hits than ever... No thanks.

Edited by Levant Colthearts

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It's partly the fact that I need to buy the skills from other players in Crimson's case in particular, but it's more the fact that her crit build requires me to be toeing the line where one good hit means death... in a game where Berserkers are more susceptible to critical hits than ever... No thanks.

I was more talking about Sorcerers, Trueblades, Holy Lancer, and Holy Bowmen for other characters. Berserkers are pretty much for Crit lovers in game. Also personally Id make Crimson a General so her ability is useful without fearing from dying in one hit. (Especially with access to Sol.)

Edited by Psyruby

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Actually, now that I think about it. Berka's Killer Axe is good for Berserkers(especially Arthur) for a very VERY silly reason. The drawback of -20 Crit Evade is actually worthless as a drawback to a class that already has 7.5%~ Crit Evade MAX to begin with. The game doesn't allow you to have negative Crit Evade, which means that a normal Berserker gives up only 7.5% Crit Evade MAX and Berserker Arthur gives up 1% Crit Evade MAX with Berka's Killer Axe.

EDIT: I mean, there is the +5 to double drawback, but let's be honest.... we don't let our units typically lag behind in speed near mid to end game.

Edited by Psyruby

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Actually, now that I think about it. Berka's Killer Axe is good for Berserkers(especially Arthur) for a very VERY silly reason. The drawback of -20 Crit Evade is actually worthless as a drawback to a class that already has 7.5%~ Crit Evade MAX to begin with. The game doesn't allow you to have negative Crit Evade, which means that a normal Berserker gives up only 7.5% Crit Evade MAX and Berserker Arthur gives up 1% Crit Evade MAX with Berka's Killer Axe.

EDIT: I mean, there is the +5 to double drawback, but let's be honest.... we don't let our units typically lag behind in speed near mid to end game.

On that note, would the "Crit evade -20" drawback also affect crit evade bonuses, like those from Guard Stance?

Edited by Levant Colthearts

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On that note, would the "Crit evade -20" drawback also affect crit evade bonuses, like those from Guard Stance?

Probably... I doubt they would stack -'s and +'s so that one effectively doesn't exist and you get the full benefit of the other.

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sharp contrast to Awakening where the huge caps + Limit Break + support bonuses made crit build impractical because the numbers are single digit if even

I mean... It's not like there was...

There was reliable Crit against Apoth enemies....

https://youtu.be/_ZNvegyZwLs?t=1h16m25s

Huge Caps, with LB and Support... it goes both ways.

Crit builds are ill favored in Awakening because of stopping power being less than stacking Braves and Dual Strikes. It had tricky uses to make Crit build good in Awakening.

x2 + x4 Dual Strikes > x3 + x2 Dual Strikes.

[And streetpass it was a bad idea because, unlike Fates PvP, Streetpass was AI controlled, and the AI was gimped]

Fates features QUAD DAMAGE Crits, and you're only ever getting 1 or 2 Dual Strikes.

Reliable crits are going to be of much more note in Fates, because they have a lot of Damage potential.

Edited by Airship Canon

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I mean... It's not like there was...

There was reliable Crit against Apoth enemies....

https://youtu.be/_ZNvegyZwLs?t=1h16m25s

Huge Caps, with LB and Support... it goes both ways.

Crit builds are ill favored in Awakening because of stopping power being less than stacking Braves and Dual Strikes. It had tricky uses to make Crit build good in Awakening.

x2 + x4 Dual Strikes > x3 + x2 Dual Strikes.

[And streetpass it was a bad idea because, unlike Fates PvP, Streetpass was AI controlled, and the AI was gimped]

Fates features QUAD DAMAGE Crits, and you're only ever getting 1 or 2 Dual Strikes.

Reliable crits are going to be of much more note in Fates, because they have a lot of Damage potential.

It doesn't go both ways exactly.... Cause no matter what, the higher the luck/skill cap is, the more crits are less likely to happen. Sure, you can make a crit build in awakening, but it wasn't practical.

Also, Fates' quad damage actually has little to do with why crits are good. Quad damage is a bonus against generals, but for every single non general unit, x3 damage would have probably been enough to kill them. The reason crits are so good is that every mechanic involving criticals changed to favor them.

1) Luck is 50% as effective.

2) Luck's cap is now variable and the average is lower compared to skill than before. (ie average luck is 31 to Skill's 31 in fates whereas Awakening had 41 Skl compared to 45 Luck)

3) HP caps are now variable and drastically lower.

4) Very few weapons have +Critcal Evade and are good.

5) S rank classes got innate critical boosts instead of skills involving crits.

6) Ogre Strike exists.

7) AND THEN we care about x4 on killer/critical weapons.

Edited by Psyruby

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It doesn't go both ways exactly.... Cause no matter what, the higher the luck/skill cap is, the more crits are less likely to happen. Sure, you can make a crit build in awakening, but it wasn't practical.

Also, Fates' quad damage actually has little to do with why crits are good. Quad damage is a bonus against generals, but for every single non general unit, x3 damage would have probably been enough to kill them. The reason crits are so good is that every mechanic involving criticals changed to favor them.

1) Luck is 50% as effective.

2) Luck's cap is now variable and the average is lower compared to skill than before. (ie average luck is 31 to Skill's 31 in fates whereas Awakening had 41 Skl compared to 45 Luck)

3) HP caps are now variable and drastically lower.

4) Very few weapons have +Critcal Evade and are good.

5) S rank classes got innate critical boosts instead of skills involving crits.

6) Ogre Strike exists.

7) AND THEN we care about x4 on killer/critical weapons.

-_-;;

Ignoring the fact that a completely viable crit build was used against Apoth enemies right there. Was it practical? Yes.

[Let's go over the point-- Apoth Enemies had around oh yeah 55-65 Luck [a few moments before the linked point, the critbuild smashed a boss with a crit]]

Ogre Strike exists, so did Wrath.

Wrath doesn't exist in Fates.

Focus is gone as well.

Anathema is gone too.

A Maximum Crit Build in Fates, ASSUMING those darn Clubs get CRIT when Forged and the Forge Crit bonus is right... nets ~155 CRT, the top Awakening CRT build is about the same. Except Awakening's doesn't only work on women.

Crit build wasn't ideal in Awakening because it was running on Wrath, and Ruin didn't have the DPS remotely for it. [Things like say, Nightmare Sniper or Thronie could just tank your crit and laugh].

[And ignoring Apoth, there's 0 situations where crit builds won't avail you in Awakening. Hell Critbot Premade is the best way to sweep L+ provided you get to C3-- as only the Critbot is immune to being burned down by counters.]

It wasn't that you couldn't get reliable crits. It's that THINGS COULD SURVIVE YOUR CRITS AND RETURN FOR KILLS. It was a DAMAGE issue in Awakening, not a reliabilty one.

Reliability does go both ways.

Here, Luck's been nerfed and Damage is up [x4 vs x3-- coupled with say 1/75 'zerk with Vengeance that's +148 vs +126 max in Awakening].

But stacking stats higher applies to both. It's things that lack mitigation that get problematic with scaling higher [i.E. activation skills]

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-_-;;

Ignoring the fact that a completely viable crit build was used against Apoth enemies right there. Was it practical? Yes.

[Let's go over the point-- Apoth Enemies had around oh yeah 55-65 Luck [a few moments before the linked point, the critbuild smashed a boss with a crit]]

Ogre Strike exists, so did Wrath.

Wrath doesn't exist in Fates.

Focus is gone as well.

Anathema is gone too.

A Maximum Crit Build in Fates, ASSUMING those darn Clubs get CRIT when Forged and the Forge Crit bonus is right... nets ~155 CRT, the top Awakening CRT build is about the same. Except Awakening's doesn't only work on women.

Crit build wasn't ideal in Awakening because it was running on Wrath, and Ruin didn't have the DPS remotely for it. [Things like say, Nightmare Sniper or Thronie could just tank your crit and laugh].

[And ignoring Apoth, there's 0 situations where crit builds won't avail you in Awakening. Hell Critbot Premade is the best way to sweep L+ provided you get to C3-- as only the Critbot is immune to being burned down by counters.]

It wasn't that you couldn't get reliable crits. It's that THINGS COULD SURVIVE YOUR CRITS AND RETURN FOR KILLS. It was a DAMAGE issue in Awakening, not a reliabilty one.

Reliability does go both ways.

Here, Luck's been nerfed and Damage is up [x4 vs x3-- coupled with say 1/75 'zerk with Vengeance that's +148 vs +126 max in Awakening].

But stacking stats higher applies to both. It's things that lack mitigation that get problematic with scaling higher [i.E. activation skills]

Even if that is true, you are saying it wrong. The higher caps in NO way improved critical cause Skill and Luck didn't scale at the same rate, it was the EXTRA critical buffs that allowed it to get that high. Also, you just talked about using support, 3 skills(technically 4 cause Limit Breaker is required), AND forging weapons to get 155 critical which is the exact number you needed to crit 99.9% of the time. Your fates numbers are actually wrong. Roundhouse(which is more useable due to things like Raven Strike/Flamboyant), Ogre Strike, Awakening(cause if we are counting Wrath as usable, then this is too), Great Club, Berserker, Skill Stat, pairup bonuses(which the max is +12 Crit) and Personal Skill can add up to 182~ crit total in Fates and that's without factoring forging crit(as those numbers are unstable right now), but you only needed 135 critical to crit 99.9% of the time. Holy Lancers/Pegasus with Suisha, Arthur, and using bad skills are the only exception. And these exception are incredibly easy to play around.

The damage was a problem in Awakening, but the Quad Damage in Fates contributes minimal to why crits kill. Criticals kill cause HP is so low. To kill the somewhat defensive unit you need 54 Atk with x3 damage. This is ridiculously easy to achieve with forging killer/brave weapons, statues, and using even one skill to buff damage(probably Aggressor). The fact that they do x4 damage is just overkill at this point. However, the better point is how little you have to invest in crit builds to get them running. You need specific characters, in one of 7 classes, with killer or brave weapons(forged or unforged), and with 1 skill to increase crit to have a viable critical build. The best part is you have 4 skill slots to do whatever you want. So if you want to have Sorcerer's with a 100% crit rate, you can. If you want a Flamboyant Skill Crit build on your Trueblade, you can do it. The game provides such flexibility for crit builds compared to Awakening.

Basically, this notion that x4 damage was the saving grace that allowed Fates criticals to OHKO and therefore be more relevant is wrong. It was the lowered crit evade, the lowered HP cap, and the freedom in making a critical build being expanded.

Edited by Psyruby

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Well it may or may not be relevant, but "preliminary analysis" of enemies' luck stat..is disappointing

Probably why a high crit rate isn't that hard to achieve, since if you have any semblance of crit boosting (even 5 Crit I would think) would push you over the point

"Just looking" at IK25 Hard, average luck is 12, so ...well...

Oh and, in case "people forgot", silvers decrease your critical evade by 5 so...yeah....crits everywhere...

Edited by CocoaGalaxy

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Probably... I doubt they would stack -'s and +'s so that one effectively doesn't exist and you get the full benefit of the other.

I guess so too. Anyways, WRT Belka's Axe, using it leaves you open to doubling by, among others, Trueblades, Elite Ninjas, War Priestesses, Mountain Priests, and Adventurers.

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